Micro 772: Jester Nightless

[Not_Mafia]

Disagree

[JaydragonKing]

Serious. Five fucking completed games under my belt. All of them with me being in MyLo or Lylo. One Newbie two Normal and Two Micro. All Scum victory.

I'm holding a record here.

[Mathdino]

Disagree

QFT

also i can't believe fucking not_mafia manipulated/trolled his own scumbuddy into a winning position

i was so pissed omg

[Jingle]

In all fairness, this game is not really representative of real mafia. I've played in, read or modded this 6 times now, and not once has it looked anything like a normal game.

[Jingle]

Disagree

QFT

also i can't believe fucking not_mafia manipulated/trolled his own scumbuddy into a winning position

i was so pissed omg

The best part is: That was his whole plan.

[Mathdino]

jay in truth you were really just biased by having played with me before, and not having seen my scumgame
you trust me, basically

now you know

Edit: trudat
but i'm still counting it as one because 4v1 nightless is a legit setup
shut up and vote uses that setup

[Something_Smart]

4v1 nightless is not a real mafia setup though. Real mafia setups require at least two scum.

[Mathdino]

i probably would've scumread myself a few times back there, i in no way think i was playing my towngame

kinda just coasted for a while, figured it was already a surefire loss

but the quicklynches were amazing and suddenly jester's dead and i can start actually playing for a serious win

Edit: true but we did have associations to work with
associations that you correctly picked up on

[Not_Mafia]

Disagree

QFT

also i can't believe fucking not_mafia manipulated/trolled his own scumbuddy into a winning position

i was so pissed omg

At some point you have to graduate from merely trolling your enemies

[JaydragonKing]

Atleast with all these losses at the beginning of my career, I'm not going to grow a huge ego in my skills even if I improve.

Still sucks I got the luxury of winning my first ever game as scum. That fucked all my town games up by me playing like that.

[Jingle]

Dunkerdoodles is like the worst backup mod btw. I haven't even heard from him since the day this game went into signups. I mean, it's been almost a whole week, and he didn't even check on us.

[Mathdino]

yeah first game being scum is definitely a blow to anyone's playstyle

my advice is to just read up on getting better at scumhunting

you definitely have that potential but you also have an overwhelming bias toward OMGUS and trusting the players who act townish by default

my scumtell this game was that i was significantly more concerned with who was jester than who was scum

[Something_Smart]

Jay, you have one half of townplay down very well (appearing town). The other half you are lacking and it's creating the patterns you described.

The solution is probably to make sure your confidence in your reads is proportional to how accurate you believe they are. In this case you claimed Math had a 1% chance of being scum and you repeatedly ignored me asking why and then hammered me out of impatience when I was waiting on YOU.

Even despite that, if you had recognized that my reads were likely to be better than yours you still would have won.

[Something_Smart]

I guess that's a bit of an overstatement. I wasn't waiting on you. But I was waiting on more discussion to help some things hopefully become clearer. One of those things was for you and me to talk through why you thought Math was so likely town.

[Mathdino]

personally i was afraid ethos would come back and obvtown all over the place

i needed him lynched before he did

his entire play today was obvtown, he just shouldn't have self-voted because MS.net hates that

[Something_Smart]

My first game was a scum win too, and I started with several very serious flaws in my town playstyle that took over a year to fix. Probably a coincidence but Jay I definitely identify with the TYPE of crisis you're going through, though mine was rather the opposite (I got mislynched all the time).

[Something_Smart]

Also what I said about wishing Ari were town with me was totally true. If he had been town... this would have been a very different story.

[JaydragonKing]

Also being honest here, but I'm less influenced by my role then I am the players in that game. When I tried to play by my alignment, I lost because appearantly

Sheep: Too humiliting to lose to scum!Jay. No strat needed, I'mma ignore your points.

Never playing by alignment again. Always going to go out my way to doubt Sheep and call him out on his shit in our future games. Hoping to all hell NotMaf is town in our next game so I can atleast see that in action for once. Making sure to atleast also doubt Dino in encounters but he already said that. Acknowledging that if Assemble is in a game, it's basically an inactive slot/future replacement.

[Mathdino]

i agree that your playstyle differs wildly based on the playerlist
you're actually pretty easy to read for other reasons, it's not hard to figure out your motivation i think
even if you don't intend to have your wincon on your mind all the time, just reading it changes things

[Mathdino]

It's also called strategy. But if I saw that, I immediately would have hung Dino's spot before he could replace, and then we'd focus on NotMaf afterwards.

Dino does commitments, that much I know.

you also correctly caught my lie in terms of when i'd be willing to replace out of a game

1. Multiball game: I replaced out because someone replaced into the game specifically to troll me, then LITERALLY SAID THAT'S WHAT HE WAS DOING, then started personally attacking me, then altslipped as a main account that was also a confirmed troll. Mod refused to replace him, so I replaced out.

2. Discord game: Casual server. Scumpartner admitted that he would rather have his girlfriend (town) win than have to play with me (he didn't like me), so he claimed a cop guilty on me and got counterclaimed. I ended it because the players agreed that if he was gamethrowing, they'd rather restart.

Would never replace out just because I don't like my scumpartner. N_M was good.

[JaydragonKing]

My first game was a scum win too, and I started with several very serious flaws in my town playstyle that took over a year to fix. Probably a coincidence but Jay I definitely identify with the TYPE of crisis you're going through, though mine was rather the opposite (I got mislynched all the time).

Your problem was probably-

High Intelligence, Moderate Wisdom, Low Charisma, Low Luck

My problem is -

Morderate-High Intelligence, Low Wisdom, High Charisma, Moderate Luck.

Already someone on site said I got personality down. That's kinda how I avoid getting lynched normally.

[Jingle]

my advice is to just read up on getting better at scumhunting

I'd actually suggest spectating a couple of games you don't play in in real time. Watching other people suck at scumhunting (and trust me, it's pretty much everyone) will vastly help you. The other option is to pursue a teaching hydra, but all of the players I'd suggest for that purpose either don't play anymore or are usually too busy.

Don't worry too much about tailoring your play to the players around you. As you start building an idea of meta, that'll come naturally. Just play games and the skill will come with time.

[Something_Smart]

Low Charisma

You hit the nail right on the head with this one.

[JaydragonKing]

"Don't worry too much about tailoring your play to the players around you. As you start building an idea of meta, that'll come naturally. Just play games and the skill will come with time."

Ahh, you misunderstand. My response legit changes depending on who asks me something. I don't tailor on purpose.

[Aristophanes]

How am I the worst jester yet I get lynched all the time otherwise!?!?

Goddammit!