Why? That's weird to say. And you don't even explainIn post 148, Ellibereth wrote:i was wrong about kokichi being a good lynch today
Micro 782: Jester Nightless - Game Over!
- Kokichi Oma
-
Kokichi Oma Survivor
- Kokichi Oma
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 11839
- Joined: October 22, 2017
How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.- mutantdevle
-
mutantdevle Mafia Scum
- mutantdevle
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3731
- Joined: October 21, 2017
- Location: Hell
Yo, so now that we've mislynched twice can we (collectively) start properly scum hunting now? I'm-a start that for myself with a reads list and go from there:
Town:
Town lean:
Archwing
Bicephalous Bob
Kokichi Oma
Ellibereth
Null:- - - - - - - - - -Jester lean:- - - - - - - - - -Jester:
ZZZX - - - - - - - - - - ZZZX
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bicephalous Bob
Scum lean:
Not Known 15
Scum:
So if I was going to iron my reads out to PoE then I'd say Not Known and ZZZX are mafia with Bob as the Jester. Of which, I am obviously most confident on Not Known so I'm going to vote for them for now.
VOTE: Not Known
They've been throwing their vote round a bit and sheeped both wagons. They also seem strangely adamant that Ellibereth is the Jester. They've also contributed basically nothing to the game which is not only scummy but also something we'd ideally not want in Mylo. Of course, ZZZX has contributed nothing either, but he hasn't been so scummy about it and is simply a lurker.I mostly just lurk now.- Kokichi Oma
-
Kokichi Oma Survivor
- Kokichi Oma
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 11839
- Joined: October 22, 2017
- Ellibereth
-
Ellibereth Deus ex Machina
- Ellibereth
- Deus ex Machina
- Deus ex Machina
- Posts: 9752
- Joined: November 6, 2009
- Location: Location location location
- mutantdevle
-
mutantdevle Mafia Scum
- mutantdevle
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3731
- Joined: October 21, 2017
- Location: Hell
- Ellibereth
-
Ellibereth Deus ex Machina
- Ellibereth
- Deus ex Machina
- Deus ex Machina
- Posts: 9752
- Joined: November 6, 2009
- Location: Location location location
- Ellibereth
-
Ellibereth Deus ex Machina
- Ellibereth
- Deus ex Machina
- Deus ex Machina
- Posts: 9752
- Joined: November 6, 2009
- Location: Location location location
- mutantdevle
-
mutantdevle Mafia Scum
- mutantdevle
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3731
- Joined: October 21, 2017
- Location: Hell
- Ellibereth
-
Ellibereth Deus ex Machina
- Ellibereth
- Deus ex Machina
- Deus ex Machina
- Posts: 9752
- Joined: November 6, 2009
- Location: Location location location
- Ellibereth
-
Ellibereth Deus ex Machina
- Ellibereth
- Deus ex Machina
- Deus ex Machina
- Posts: 9752
- Joined: November 6, 2009
- Location: Location location location
In post 155, Ellibereth wrote:clears him as not mafia*.
you can figure it out.
this is exercise 1 in the mafia workbookIn post 155, Ellibereth wrote:clears him as not mafia*.In post 155, Ellibereth wrote:not mafia*.In post 155, Ellibereth wrote:not mafiaFLASH OF GREEN- Kokichi Oma
-
Kokichi Oma Survivor
- Kokichi Oma
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 11839
- Joined: October 22, 2017
- mutantdevle
-
mutantdevle Mafia Scum
- mutantdevle
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3731
- Joined: October 21, 2017
- Location: Hell
So yes? Nk15 and not_mafia are the same person? Could be Jester OR town but just not mafia?
Look, I’m not good at the whole guessing thing. I’m someone with a lot of self doubt and I regularly second guess myself, so when you make your thoughts and opinions unclear it really doesn’t work for me and I end up confusing myself. Naturally, I will assume your opinion is that which is most probable. The fallacy there is that what I consider most probable isn’t always correct (obviously). I’d prefer my questions towards you to be about WHY you think something rather than WHAT it is you think. So I’d appreciate if you could be more straight forward with your opinions.I mostly just lurk now.- mutantdevle
-
mutantdevle Mafia Scum
- mutantdevle
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3731
- Joined: October 21, 2017
- Location: Hell
So yes? Nk15 and not_mafia are the same person? Could be Jester OR town but just not mafia?
Look, I’m not good at the whole guessing thing. I’m someone with a lot of self doubt and I regularly second guess myself, so when you make your thoughts and opinions unclear it really doesn’t work for me and I end up confusing myself. Naturally, I will assume your opinion is that which is most probable. The fallacy there is that what I consider most probable isn’t always correct (obviously). I’d prefer my questions towards you to be about WHY you think something rather than WHAT it is you think. So I’d appreciate if you could be more straight forward with your opinions.I mostly just lurk now.- mutantdevle
-
mutantdevle Mafia Scum
- mutantdevle
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3731
- Joined: October 21, 2017
- Location: Hell
- Archwing
-
Archwing Mafia Scum
- Archwing
-
-
Not Known 15 Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3744
- Joined: September 15, 2017
I think I found scum,
mutantdevle:
and then, shortly later...In post 131, mutantdevle wrote:Yes but anyone being at L-1 without selfhammering is Not Jester and should be hammered.
This post just made me realise that if he is Jester then we have lost either way. There’s nothing to claim and I scum lean him anyway so.... fuck it.
VOTE: Cooldog
There is a logical disconnect here.In post 137, mutantdevle wrote:I just checked and cooldog has been online since being put to L-1 and I posted my intent so we have a possible Jester here ignoring his wagon to get lynched.
I guess mutant wasn't hammering out of fear it would bite them back, and then saw me saying "ok" to a hammer without fully thinking through the argument, which is apparent in the second quoted post.
Now, there is definitely no town who thinks like that: mutantdevle isn't town.-
-
Not Known 15 Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3744
- Joined: September 15, 2017
This was the post that made me suspect ellibereth as Jester.In post 24, Ellibereth wrote:Sup
Posts no vote but short fluff on RVS.
Their ominous reasoning(them just saying "exercise 1 and exercise 2") without saying why also points to them as Jester.
Keep your votes off them for now.- mutantdevle
-
mutantdevle Mafia Scum
- mutantdevle
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3731
- Joined: October 21, 2017
- Location: Hell
Your fallacy here is that scum still won’t wanna lynch the Jester. In fact, scum are going to specifically want to hunt the Jester because they are a mechanical threat to them.In post 165, Not Known 15 wrote:I think I found scum,
mutantdevle:
and then, shortly later...In post 131, mutantdevle wrote:Yes but anyone being at L-1 without selfhammering is Not Jester and should be hammered.
This post just made me realise that if he is Jester then we have lost either way. There’s nothing to claim and I scum lean him anyway so.... fuck it.
VOTE: Cooldog
There is a logical disconnect here.In post 137, mutantdevle wrote:I just checked and cooldog has been online since being put to L-1 and I posted my intent so we have a possible Jester here ignoring his wagon to get lynched.
I guess mutant wasn't hammering out of fear it would bite them back, and then saw me saying "ok" to a hammer without fully thinking through the argument, which is apparent in the second quoted post.
Now, there is definitely no town who thinks like that: mutantdevle isn't town.
You’ve pointed out a logical flaw that I hadn’t considered. If he had seen the wagon, he would have self voted. That was just something that slipped my mind and is hardly AI aside from showing I’m not thinking like a Jester. Those 2 posts were a few hours apart and I didn’t think to check when I placed the vote.I mostly just lurk now.-
-
Not Known 15 Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3744
- Joined: September 15, 2017
Caught you.In post 167, mutantdevle wrote:
Your fallacy here is that scum still won’t wanna lynch the Jester. In fact, scum are going to specifically want to hunt the Jester because they are a mechanical threat to them.In post 165, Not Known 15 wrote:I think I found scum,
mutantdevle:
and then, shortly later...In post 131, mutantdevle wrote:Yes but anyone being at L-1 without selfhammering is Not Jester and should be hammered.
This post just made me realise that if he is Jester then we have lost either way. There’s nothing to claim and I scum lean him anyway so.... fuck it.
VOTE: Cooldog
There is a logical disconnect here.In post 137, mutantdevle wrote:I just checked and cooldog has been online since being put to L-1 and I posted my intent so we have a possible Jester here ignoring his wagon to get lynched.
I guess mutant wasn't hammering out of fear it would bite them back, and then saw me saying "ok" to a hammer without fully thinking through the argument, which is apparent in the second quoted post.
Now, there is definitely no town who thinks like that: mutantdevle isn't town.
You’ve pointed out a logical flaw that I hadn’t considered. If he had seen the wagon, he would have self voted. That was just something that slipped my mind and is hardly AI aside from showing I’m not thinking like a Jester. Those 2 posts were a few hours apart and I didn’t think to check when I placed the vote.In post 136, mutantdevle wrote:Yeah but if they are Jester they were just going to self hammer anyway.
For future days I suggest we should run people up to L-2 and then have 2 people declare intent to vote / hammer.
There are just some MINUTES between those. I think you didn't think that they were Jester or mafia(since you were Mafia) from the start. And took my line as excuse to hammer someone you really read as not jester and thus town. Without really, and wholly checking my argument. Because if you had really checked my argument throughly then you would not have done this.In post 137, mutantdevle wrote:I just checked and cooldog has been online since being put to L-1 and I posted my intent so we have a possible Jester here ignoring his wagon to get lynched.
It is the difference between being a townie and trying to look like a townie scumhunting by going with the arguments without actually scrutinizing them.VOTE: mutantdevle- Archwing
-
Archwing Mafia Scum
- Archwing
- ZZZX
-
ZZZX Survivor
- ZZZX
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10778
- Joined: July 7, 2013
I is sick
I is no like sick
I is post when no sick
I is also no grammarImplosion: I see ZZZX wasredacted. For shame, people. For shame.
The Bulge: ZZZX is ZZZX
Get to know a ZZZX: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=58733- mutantdevle
-
mutantdevle Mafia Scum
- mutantdevle
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3731
- Joined: October 21, 2017
- Location: Hell
You are REALLY reaching now. "Those 2 posts were a few hours apart" was referring to 131 & 137 which were time-stamped 8:50 and 10:41. That's almost 2 hours apart from each other. These are the 2 posts you originally quoted and obviously the posts I was referring to. You have directly twisted my words and meaning here to fit your own agenda. The point I was clearly making was that I was not considering when cooldog was last online when I placed the vote. But instead, you decide to retort with "but you made 2 posts that kinda contradict each other". You've already pointed that out. I've already said that this is a simple mistake on my part with my own logical fallacy. How is me being blatantly wrong something scum would do? As scum, I'd have no reason to make such a post. I'm not defending myself there, I'm not arguing a point, I'm not trying to sway anyone's opinion. It is a simple post that has no real impact or meaning to the overall game as cooldog had already been lynched. At most, that post could have been used as an "I told you so!" if cooldog was indeed the Jester. I checked when cooldog had last logged in and voiced my initial thought on it which was blatantly wrong as I clearly hadn't put much thought into it. I simply wasn't thinking properly when I wrote that post and I don't see how being wrong in such a way is AI at all.In post 168, Not Known 15 wrote:
Caught you.In post 167, mutantdevle wrote:
Your fallacy here is that scum still won’t wanna lynch the Jester. In fact, scum are going to specifically want to hunt the Jester because they are a mechanical threat to them.In post 165, Not Known 15 wrote:I think I found scum,
mutantdevle:
and then, shortly later...In post 131, mutantdevle wrote:Yes but anyone being at L-1 without selfhammering is Not Jester and should be hammered.
This post just made me realise that if he is Jester then we have lost either way. There’s nothing to claim and I scum lean him anyway so.... fuck it.
VOTE: Cooldog
There is a logical disconnect here.In post 137, mutantdevle wrote:I just checked and cooldog has been online since being put to L-1 and I posted my intent so we have a possible Jester here ignoring his wagon to get lynched.
I guess mutant wasn't hammering out of fear it would bite them back, and then saw me saying "ok" to a hammer without fully thinking through the argument, which is apparent in the second quoted post.
Now, there is definitely no town who thinks like that: mutantdevle isn't town.
You’ve pointed out a logical flaw that I hadn’t considered. If he had seen the wagon, he would have self voted. That was just something that slipped my mind and is hardly AI aside from showing I’m not thinking like a Jester. Those 2 posts were a few hours apart and I didn’t think to check when I placed the vote.In post 136, mutantdevle wrote:Yeah but if they are Jester they were just going to self hammer anyway.
For future days I suggest we should run people up to L-2 and then have 2 people declare intent to vote / hammer.
There are just some MINUTES between those. I think you didn't think that they were Jester or mafia(since you were Mafia) from the start. And took my line as excuse to hammer someone you really read as not jester and thus town. Without really, and wholly checking my argument. Because if you had really checked my argument throughly then you would not have done this.In post 137, mutantdevle wrote:I just checked and cooldog has been online since being put to L-1 and I posted my intent so we have a possible Jester here ignoring his wagon to get lynched.
It is the difference between being a townie and trying to look like a townie scumhunting by going with the arguments without actually scrutinizing them.VOTE: mutantdevle
So first of all, mafia don't know who the Jester is. Second of all, I had the perfect opportunity to vote cooldog earlier on in the wagon. I could have planted my vote then and there and had been done with it. Why the hell would I wait for the L-1 position to place my vote which is inherently more suspicious? And I wouldn't have needed you as an excuse, a simple hammer would have been fine since the wagon was essentially entirely sheep anyway. I was the only one on the wagon that wasn't voting purely because I thought cooldog wasn't a Jester. I was very clearly cautious of that possibility. But at the same time, I genuinely had a scum lean on him. I had more than enough reason to be on the wagon.In post 168, Not Known 15 wrote:I think you didn't think that they were Jester or mafia(since you were Mafia) from the start. And took my line as excuse to hammer someone you really read as not jester and thus town.I mostly just lurk now.-
-
Not Known 15 Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3744
- Joined: September 15, 2017
You misunderstood me. The posts you referred to were not minutes apart. But your reasoning was obviously FAKE because of these posts minutes apart.In post 171, mutantdevle wrote:
You are REALLY reaching now. "Those 2 posts were a few hours apart" was referring to 131 & 137 which were time-stamped 8:50 and 10:41. That's almost 2 hours apart from each other. These are the 2 posts you originally quoted and obviously the posts I was referring to. You have directly twisted my words and meaning here to fit your own agenda. The point I was clearly making was that I was not considering when cooldog was last online when I placed the vote. But instead, you decide to retort with "but you made 2 posts that kinda contradict each other". You've already pointed that out. I've already said that this is a simple mistake on my part with my own logical fallacy. How is me being blatantly wrong something scum would do? As scum, I'd have no reason to make such a post. I'm not defending myself there, I'm not arguing a point, I'm not trying to sway anyone's opinion. It is a simple post that has no real impact or meaning to the overall game as cooldog had already been lynched. At most, that post could have been used as an "I told you so!" if cooldog was indeed the Jester. I checked when cooldog had last logged in and voiced my initial thought on it which was blatantly wrong as I clearly hadn't put much thought into it. I simply wasn't thinking properly when I wrote that post and I don't see how being wrong in such a way is AI at all.In post 168, Not Known 15 wrote:
Caught you.In post 167, mutantdevle wrote:
Your fallacy here is that scum still won’t wanna lynch the Jester. In fact, scum are going to specifically want to hunt the Jester because they are a mechanical threat to them.In post 165, Not Known 15 wrote:I think I found scum,
mutantdevle:
and then, shortly later...In post 131, mutantdevle wrote:Yes but anyone being at L-1 without selfhammering is Not Jester and should be hammered.
This post just made me realise that if he is Jester then we have lost either way. There’s nothing to claim and I scum lean him anyway so.... fuck it.
VOTE: Cooldog
There is a logical disconnect here.In post 137, mutantdevle wrote:I just checked and cooldog has been online since being put to L-1 and I posted my intent so we have a possible Jester here ignoring his wagon to get lynched.
I guess mutant wasn't hammering out of fear it would bite them back, and then saw me saying "ok" to a hammer without fully thinking through the argument, which is apparent in the second quoted post.
Now, there is definitely no town who thinks like that: mutantdevle isn't town.
You’ve pointed out a logical flaw that I hadn’t considered. If he had seen the wagon, he would have self voted. That was just something that slipped my mind and is hardly AI aside from showing I’m not thinking like a Jester. Those 2 posts were a few hours apart and I didn’t think to check when I placed the vote.In post 136, mutantdevle wrote:Yeah but if they are Jester they were just going to self hammer anyway.
For future days I suggest we should run people up to L-2 and then have 2 people declare intent to vote / hammer.
There are just some MINUTES between those. I think you didn't think that they were Jester or mafia(since you were Mafia) from the start. And took my line as excuse to hammer someone you really read as not jester and thus town. Without really, and wholly checking my argument. Because if you had really checked my argument throughly then you would not have done this.In post 137, mutantdevle wrote:I just checked and cooldog has been online since being put to L-1 and I posted my intent so we have a possible Jester here ignoring his wagon to get lynched.
It is the difference between being a townie and trying to look like a townie scumhunting by going with the arguments without actually scrutinizing them.VOTE: mutantdevle
So first of all, mafia don't know who the Jester is. Second of all, I had the perfect opportunity to vote cooldog earlier on in the wagon. I could have planted my vote then and there and had been done with it. Why the hell would I wait for the L-1 position to place my vote which is inherently more suspicious? And I wouldn't have needed you as an excuse, a simple hammer would have been fine since the wagon was essentially entirely sheep anyway. I was the only one on the wagon that wasn't voting purely because I thought cooldog wasn't a Jester. I was very clearly cautious of that possibility. But at the same time, I genuinely had a scum lean on him. I had more than enough reason to be on the wagon.In post 168, Not Known 15 wrote:I think you didn't think that they were Jester or mafia(since you were Mafia) from the start. And took my line as excuse to hammer someone you really read as not jester and thus town.
And no, the later portions of a lynch are not always the most suspicious. Scum can push wagons early, after all, even start them. So, if you are scum why didn't you push early?
The answer is easy- you didn't have any sound reasons!
Yes you said that you were leaning scum... but you didn't say why at all!- mutantdevle
-
mutantdevle Mafia Scum
- mutantdevle
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3731
- Joined: October 21, 2017
- Location: Hell
I don't want to discredit you on account of OMGUS so I'm actually trying to read through your argument and make sense of it, but it just doesn't make any.
This is what I understand of your argument:
mutantdevle is wrongIn post 165, Not Known 15 wrote:There is a logical disconnect here.
So this means that his posts made BEFORE he made this wrong statement show that he wasn't worried about cooldog being the Jester.In post 165, Not Known 15 wrote:I guess mutant wasn't hammering out of fear it would bite them back,
And hence used what I wrote as an excuse to hammer without fully thinking through the extent of what I saidIn post 165, Not Known 15 wrote:and then saw me saying "ok" to a hammer without fully thinking through the argument,
Which can be proven by how he clearly isn't thinking things through in the second postIn post 165, Not Known 15 wrote:which is apparent in the second quoted post.
And town wouldn't do this.In post 165, Not Known 15 wrote:Now, there is definitely no town who thinks like that: mutantdevle isn't town.
I just don't understand how you are drawing these conclusions. I made the mistake about a Jester ignoring their wagon AFTER I placed my vote, so clearly my vote wasn't influenced by that. Your post was in no way an "ok" to hammer. You never told me to hammer, your post wasn't even directed towards me. My OWN conclusion from what you said was that "if cooldog is the Jester, we are fucked regardless of whether or not I hammer now, so I may as well hammer in order to progress the game and find out whether or not we have just lost the game sooner". So yes, I did think your argument through and that was a conclusion that I reached by myself; unless you are claiming that your intention of making that post was to try and make me think that?
Your main point, as I understand it, is that I was blatantly wrong in an attempt to look townie? Please correct me if I am wrong. I explain why the Jester avoiding the wagon mistake is not AI in my previous post but I can kinda see where you are coming from with the hammering 'mistake'. If you were trying to set up the situation so that I hammered, I could see how you would think that me reaching that conclusion would be scum trying to look town as, to some extent, it was. Every single other person on that wagon was either straight up sheeping or had the opinion that we should lynch whoever isn't Jester regardless of if they are actually scum. I disagree with that mentality but I compromised since it was obviously a popular opinion amongst the town and I had a scum lean on cooldog anyway. However, I'd like to argue that your post in no way conveys that nor encourages me to hammer and if that really was what you were trying to do then it is scummy and manipulative. I also don't see how you don't recognise your own mentality of wanting a lynch that isn't the Jester above lynching scum reads isn't scummy, and might I point out, a mentality that is vastly different from today. Sure, lynching Jester is obviously bad, but I don't see why lynching people just because we think they are NOT the Jester is a good idea, because that essentially means we are lynching town reads.I mostly just lurk now.- mutantdevle
-
mutantdevle Mafia Scum
- mutantdevle
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3731
- Joined: October 21, 2017
- Location: Hell
- mutantdevle
Copyright © MafiaScum. All rights reserved.
- mutantdevle
- mutantdevle
- ZZZX
- mutantdevle
- mutantdevle
- mutantdevle
- mutantdevle
- Kokichi Oma
- Ellibereth
- Ellibereth
- mutantdevle
- Ellibereth
- Ellibereth
- mutantdevle
- Ellibereth
- Kokichi Oma
- mutantdevle
- Kokichi Oma