Micro 800: Dynamic Duo Mafia (Games Over)

Mathdino · Post Post #0 (ISO) » Tue May 01, 2018 7:57 am

GAME STATUS

800-A, northsidegal's Open, is over.

800-B, Mathdino's "Normal", is over.

DUOS

Gut
(chamber/Cogito Ergo Sum)
Swank to Tank not Hot to Trot
(Katyusha/Lycanfire)
Smitty Werbenjagermanjensen
(Ranmaru/singersigner)
Wonderland
(Plotinus/Alisae)
Orisaki
(Dunnstral/MariaR)
Lame Geriatrics
(Pine/mastina)
(Not_Mafia/Errantparabola)
Not Mafia
(RedFlavor/CheekyTeeky)
The Withering Leafs
(Ausuka/UnaBombaH)

GROUPS

1st Pick	2nd Pick
chamber/Cogito Ergo Sum	Plotinus/Alisae
Katyusha/Lycanfire	Pine/mastina
Ranmaru/singersigner	RedFlavor/CheekyTeeky
Dunnstral/MariaR	Ausuka/UnaBombaH
Not_Mafia/Errantparabola	-
1st Pick Duos choose their games before role PMs are sent. 2nd Pick Duos choose their games after role PMs are sent, and after the 1st Pick Duos' choices are publicised.

DISTRIBUTION

Players:
northsidegal's Open	Mathdino's Normal
Cogito Ergo Sum	chamber
Lycanfire (originally Katyusha)	Lycanfire
singersigner	Ranmaru
Alisae (originally Plotinus)	Alisae
Dunnstral	MariaR
Pine	mastina
Not_Mafia	Errantparabola
CheekyTeeky (originally RedFlavor)	CheekyTeeky
Ausuka	UnaBombaH

Mathdino · Post Post #1 (ISO) » Tue May 01, 2018 10:02 am

SETUP:

9 Duos will play in two games.

northsidegal's Open

: northsidegal will be running the all-vanilla setup Double Day Unlimited. Scum PT does not have daytalk.

Mathdino's "Normalesque"

: Mathdino will be running a Closed "Normalesque" setup.

Spoiler: Setup info

Any Duos that win the most games will also win the entire event!

CHOOSING GAMES:

There is a special mechanic for choosing games. The process is as follows:

1.

Duos will have 48 hours to draft in order to be in the "1st Pick" group or the "2nd Pick" group

. The draft is modeled after Pick Your Power X/Y's draft (see below for details). Whichever group is more popular will include the 5 highest-in-the-draft Duos that preferred said group. The 4 remaining Duos will be assigned to the other group.

2.

The results of the draft are publicized, along with group preferences.

3.

The 1st Pick Duo players are automatically assigned their preferred games

, with no alignment or playerlist knowledge.

4.

The 1st Pick Duos' choices are publicized.

5.

Each Duo will receive 2 role PMs

, one for each game.

6.

The 2nd Pick Duos will then have 48 hours to choose which player gets which role PM.

Acceleration will be available after 24 hours.

At this point, players will be given access to any relevant PTs, and both games will start after 24 hours.

Mathdino · Post Post #2 (ISO) » Tue May 01, 2018 10:08 am

DYNAMIC DUO MAFIA RULES

Mostly stolen/modified from Team Mafia 2018 (credit to Ellibereth). New rules or rules that are or may appear different from Team Mafia 2018's have been underlined.

1.

ALL Site Rules apply.

2.

All Game Rules apply for each game. This post takes precedence in cases of contradiction.

3.

Mathdino/northsidegal are the mods.

We reserve the right to change or add rules, and will inform players of this. We reserve the right to make the final decision in problematic circumstances and rules infractions, potentially including force replacements, or modkills with or without warning.
4.

PM/chat us ASAP if you see a mod error or a rules break.

We'll do our best to fix things.

5.

You may contact us by PM, through your PT, or on Discord for anything game-related.

6.

Pretending to break the rules will be treated as actually breaking the rules.

7.

Play to win both games.

Do not sabotage or play against wincon in one game in order to win the other game or win the whole event.

COMMUNICATION

1. Each Duo has been provided a PT to privately discuss both games. On request, Duos may be provided a Discord Channel.

2. Any game-related communication outside of the PT/DC must be pasted with timestamps into the PT.

3. You may post anything that does not break site rules into the PT/DC.
4. Do not paste any text or timestamps OUT of the PT/DC. (Mathdino was modkilled for this. Don't be Mathdino.) You may paraphrase, as you might paraphrase mod communication or game PT content.
5. You may continue to use your Duo PT after your in-game death.
6. Duo PTs will only be released post-game with the consent of both players.
7. If a player has access to an in-game PT, their teammate may view the PT but may not post in it.
8. Game PTs will be automatically released after both games complete.
9. There will be an unspoiled dead/spectator thread for Duos with both players dead.

TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER GAME

1.

You may only mention mod-confirmed things from the game you're not in.

As a general rule, anything in the mod's opening post and title is fair to discuss. This includes:
- Stating who is in which Duo
- Stating a game's day/night status
- Stating who is alive or dead
- Stating the alignments of dead players
Do not discuss any other content from the other game.
2.

Do not publicly speculate about the other game.

3.

Do not make any attempts to influence the other game through posting in your own game.

Any signaling or cryptography is strictly prohibited.

4.

You may discuss the skillset/preferences of players in the other game,

as it relates to your own game

.

Examples that are allowed:
- "Your teammate hates playing scum. You probably chose this game for the scum PM."
- "[Player] (in this game) is town -- if they got a scum PM, why would they want it?"
- "Yes, but [Player] (in this game) might've been forced to take a scum PM, or took it for WIFOM."
- "Your teammate is great at scum strategy, and is probably telling you what to post."
5.

You may not, however, discuss, reference, or imply anything about the other game

except as outlined in Rule 1 of this section.

This counts as attempts to influence the other game

. Examples that are NOT allowed:
- "Your teammate hates playing scum, and is probably town in their game while you're scum here."
- "[Player] (not in this game) is probably going to flip town, therefore..."
- "[Player] (in this game) is so scummy they probably both got scum." (this implicitly influences the other game)
- "Why are you spending so much time telling your teammate what to post in their game?"
6.

Do not imply that your teammate might be anything other than town

, including in hypothetical situations. "I prefer town" is fine. "My teammate would take any scum PMs we got" is not fine.
7.

Borderline cases should be brought to us (preferably me).

We'll let you know what's okay to post.

8.

Stating, for example, "because of things I can't discuss due to the rules", counts as a possible allusion/implication/signal to the other game.

Please explain the situation to us before making such posts. If these statements relate to content/speculation about the other game, do not allude to them.

9.

Once the other game is over, all restrictions on discussing it in your game are lifted. You may not discuss it outside of this event.

10.

Clarification: You may talk about anything that your Duo discussed prior to receiving role PMs,

as long as it does not relate to anything that has occurred in the other game, does not attempt to influence the other game, and does not discuss hypothetical situations in which your teammate is scum.

SWAPS/REPLACEMENTS

1.

After one of your Duo is dead, the dead player may swap into the living player's game exactly once

, with both players' request.

2.

If your teammate replaces out (or is force replaced)

, it is your responsibility to find a new teammate.
3.

When talking to potential replacements, do not provide or receive any information about the game.

This compromises your slot and that scummer's ability to replace into other slots.

4.

You may request that I make an official Replacement Request

, opening your teammate's slot to anyone who wants it (at our discretion).

5.

Dead players may be replaced.

6.

If an entire Duo is replaced, I will open their slots to the replacement queue or Replacement Requests.

If the Duo had 1st Pick, I will randomly assign the new players to their games. If the Duo had 2nd Pick, the players must choose games after receiving their role PMs.

Mathdino · Post Post #3 (ISO) » Tue May 01, 2018 10:36 am

THE DRAFT

As outlined in the Setup, Duos will draft in order to get 1st Pick or 2nd Pick. Please read the Setup to see what this entails.

Each Duo must fill out the following form via PT or DC, in bold.

I will resolve the most recent submission.

FORM1. Send a positive integer.
2. Does your Duo want 1st Pick or 2nd Pick?
3. If your Duo gets 1st Pick, who will play in the Open and who will play in the "Normal"?
4. (OPTIONAL) Feel free to send Duo/"Hydra" name.

The draft will work as follows:

The lowest unique number will get first place in the draft. Second place is awarded to the second lowest unique number and so on, until all unique numbers have been exhausted. Next placed on the list is the lowest doubled numbers, followed by the next lowest doubled numbers, and so on. Continue this same process for triples and quadruples.
In cases of multiple Duos selecting the same number, the placements of these Duos is chosen randomly.

The most popular group between 1st Pick and 2nd Pick will get the 5 highest Duos that preferred that group. The 4 remaining Duos will be assigned to the other group.

An example draft:

Spoiler: Example

The deadline for submitting your form is in (expired on 2018-05-03 18:00:00).

Once all forms are in, and at least 24 hours have passed, I will end the Draft early.

Any Duos that fail to submit their form in time may forfeit their slot.

Mathdino · Post Post #4 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2018 2:55 pm

All forms are in and game threads are up!

Resolving the drafts now.

Game threads:
northsidegal's Double Day Unlimited
Mathdino's "Normal" Stock Photos Mafia

Mathdino · Post Post #5 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2018 4:25 pm

DRAFT RESULTS

...well the draft didn't actually matter at all! Everyone gets what they wanted!

But here are the results, for anyone wondering.

Duo	Name	Number	Preference
Not_Mafia/Errantparabola		6	1st Pick
RedFlavor/CheekyTeeky	Not Mafia	7	2nd Pick
Ranmaru/singersigner	Smitty Werbenjagermanjensen	9	1st Pick
Dunnstral/MariaR	Orisaki	11	1st Pick
Katyusha/Lycanfire	Swank to Tank not Hot to Trot	17	1st Pick
Plotinus/Alisae	Wonderland	4	2nd Pick
Ausuka/UnaBombaH	The Withering Leafs	4	2nd Pick
chamber/Cogito Ergo Sum	Gut	8	1st Pick
Pine/mastina	-	8	2nd Pick

Congratulations to Not_Mafia and Errantparabola for "winning" the draft!

1ST PICK

northsidegal's Open	Mathdino's "Normal"
Cogito Ergo Sum	chamber
Katyusha	Lycanfire
singersigner	Ranmaru
Dunnstral	MariaR
Not_Mafia	Errantparabola

2ND PICK

Wonderland (Plotinus/Alisae)
Pine/mastina
Not Mafia (RedFlavor/CheekyTeeky)
The Withering Leafs (Ausuka/UnaBombaH)

Role PMs going out now. They will be PM'd to Duos and pasted into their PTs.

The above 4 Duos will have (expired on 2018-05-04 23:00:00) to select who gets which role PM.

If every 2nd Pick Duo requests acceleration, I will end the 2nd Pick Phase early.

Mathdino · Post Post #6 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2018 6:49 pm

A rule clarification has been added to "Talking About The Other Game".

10.

Clarification: You may talk about anything that your Duo discussed prior to receiving role PMs,

as long as it does not relate to anything that has occurred in the other game, does not attempt to influence the other game, and does not discuss hypothetical situations in which your teammate is scum.

Mathdino · Post Post #7 (ISO) » Fri May 04, 2018 6:05 pm

2ND PICK RESULTS

northsidegal's Open	Mathdino's "Normal"
Plotinus	Alisae
Pine	mastina
RedFlavor	CheekyTeeky
Ausuka	UnaBombaH

PRE-GAME

Phew. Almost done!

Game PTs are opening. Pre-game will last (expired on 2018-05-06 01:00:00).

As a reminder, if a player has access to a game PT, their teammate may access/view that PT, but may not post in it.

Mathdino · Post Post #8 (ISO) » Sat May 05, 2018 7:01 pm

GAMES BEGIN

Here we go! Go post!

Game threads:
northsidegal's Double Day Unlimited
Mathdino's "Normal" Stock Photos Mafia

Mathdino · Post Post #9 (ISO) » Wed May 16, 2018 9:16 pm

Lycanfire (dead in 800-B) swaps into Katyusha's slot in 800-A.

Mathdino · Post Post #10 (ISO) » Fri May 18, 2018 1:24 am

CheekyTeeky (dead in 800-B) swaps into RedFlavor's slot in 800-A.

Alisae (dead in 800-B) swaps into Plotinus's slot in 800-A.

Mathdino · Post Post #11 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:14 am

Micro 800-A is won by the mafia team of Cogito Ergo Sum and Alisae!

Micro 800-B is won by the mafia team of Errantparabola and UnaBombaH!

CONGRATULATIONS TO THE FOLLOWING TEAMS WHO EACH WON ONE GAME!

The Winners of Dynamic Duo Mafia
Gut (Cogito Ergo Sum/chamber)
Wonderland (Plotinus/Alisae)
(Not_Mafia/Errantparabola)
The Withering Leafs (Ausuka/UnaBombaH)

ISO · Post Post #12 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:17 am

GG!

I think all of the mafia players in particular played well. Don't think I deserved the win but like I guess that's just how games like this work

StefanB · Post Post #13 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:19 am

Again Congratulation to the scums.

Mathdino · Post Post #14 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:22 am

Mod Thread
Dead/Spectator PT

Open Mafia PT
"Normal" Mafia PT
"Normal" chamber PT

Going through and unlocking.

If any Duos are good with releasing their threads, please say so.

I offer the option of nuking any Duo PT posts people don't want released.

ISO · Post Post #15 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:23 am

I'm fine with releasing ausuka/una PT.

Pine · Post Post #16 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:25 am

I think I'd prefer ours unreleased. Mostly because we were terrible at scumhunting in it.

northsidegal · Post Post #17 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:27 am

Mathdino · Post Post #18 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:52 am

Let's see:

The Event:

- I never had any issues with the rules. Thanks again to Ellibereth for basically creating the baseline event rules. I modified them a little to be clearer to potential Mathdinos

- I think the draft mechanic worked out really well. The "pick a number" was obviously unnecessary -- I was afraid everyone would pick the same thing. Thankfully, everyone got what they wanted!
So I guess/hope that's a potential idea for future Team Mafias

- My policy of resolving draws was specifically because I didn't feel like this event warranted any draws or "rocks fall everyone dies". In another game I would just call a draw.

- I may run another one of these at some point with different setups. Maybe a theme!

Setup:

- Both setups were

slightly

scumsided by design. The assumption was that having a partner would assist more in getting good reads as town, and would help scumgames somewhat less. The reviewers signed off on this, agreeing that it was well-known (from TM2018 dead thread) that I consider Team Mafia to be a townsided mechanic, so setup spec could potentially be done with this knowledge.

- Double Day Unlimited is scumsided because unlimited voting and all-vanilla games freak people out.

- The "Normal" was scumsided with the assumption that parts of it would be broken by good setup spec, and that at least one good setup speccer would sign up out of 18.

- mastina's assumption that the Neighborizer was automatically town was correct. I put the Encryption/Encryption Enabler to debuff it. The Doctor was added to protect what was essentially a 90% IC. Doctor was also buffed by the draw-breaking policy.

- The Traitor was intended to debuff the scumteam and create a scenario where the scumteam had daytalk with their Duos but not with each other. This has the tradeoff of messing with associations. It wasn't

well liked

by every reviewer (because lack of associations changes mafia), but it was signed off for balance. The Roleblocker was just to punish claims.

- All in all, I think this was well-balanced

if everyone is aware it's scumsided

. I put a warning that almost copied mhsmith's Team Mafia game warning, saying I balanced around the mechanics and expected skill of the event. Town having a 2-shot Cop (Una's fakeclaim)+Neighborizer is not a setup I would have considered viable. However, not everyone by endgame was aware of the important setup spec details. So that was a faulty assumption on my part.

- And keeping in mind that the primary reason the good setup speccers were dead was Alisae/mastina getting lynched, I'm comfortable saying town was, from the start of D1,

more

likely to win.

- The only thing I'd have changed in hindsight is disallowing mafia from acting and killing on the same night. This would officially conftown the Neighborizer (as intended) and neuter the Traitor in endgame.

800-A

:

- I didn't really follow this RIP.

- But well done Alisae/Plotinus for subverting expectations of alignment choice. This majorly helped I think.

800-B

:

- Una was great. He knew EP's identity but dropped more than once a highly effective association-breaker. I know I would've fallen for it hard. That said, his claim was bad given he essentially let mastina get lynched despite having an "inno" on her. That was iffy.

- Shouts out to Katyusha who called the entire scumteam on N1 before her partner got shot.

- Needless to say, really the main thing that lost it was the D1/D2 quicklynch shitshow. The neighbourhood drama was an issue but I don't think it really affected the result in the end.

Katyusha · Post Post #19 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:57 am

In post 18, Mathdino wrote:- Shouts out to Katyusha who called the entire scumteam on N1 before her partner got shot.

idk seems generous LMFAO but i'll take it

Mathdino · Post Post #20 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:59 am

*who called a lynch order that would automatically win

I figured "if Lycan follows those exact reads, Maria will claim doc and not get lynched, and Una>EP is a win"

Ranmaru · Post Post #21 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:13 am

Shout outs:

chamber (Duo with Cogito Ergo Sum)

Chamber. We disagree on many things in this game. That's fine and respectable. I wasn't happy with your hammer on Mastina and on Maria. That really just gets me. I see that you agreed with me that the setup wouldn't be that good with Una being scum but you could at least have given it a final try for my sake at least. I'm still open to hearing your critique though, regardless.

Lycanfire (Duo with Katyusha)

Well, sadly I didn't get to see you play. I'm sure if you were in you'd have a good influence on the game. I am interested what your thoughts were through out the whole game.

Alisae (Duo with Plotinus)

Hey Ali, wish I could have played more with you this game, would have been interesting. I'm sure you would have been a good influence to this game. I'm almost as salty as you.

MariaR (Duo with Dunnstral)

Hey Maria, I had great fun with you this game. Again, I'm sorry I doubted you. I did get stubborn and realized that I should have no lynched. I was going to give you that chance at least. Oh well, look forward to playing with you in the future.

mastina (Duo with Pine)

Hey Mastina. I was going to try to swing your wagon at the end of the day but didn't get the chance to.

Errantparabola (Duo with Not_Mafia)

Sorry to see that you were busy and all with real life, I am feeling that right now. Good stuff.

CheekyTeeky (Duo with RedFlavor)

Good playing with you Cheeky, glad I was right on you. I have not much to say, but I guess do work on the shades. I did feel like you were shading me early game without any purpose to scum hunting lol. You did well to show your towniness besides that though.

UnaBombaH (Duo with Ausuka)

Hey Una, I think you did fine. I just want to re-iterate that I was fine trusting you due to your response to Maria, so there's that. I was going to reconsider though, and the thing I disagree with is more about the setup. I had fun with you though, you're a funny dude. Let's hope we are both town next time.

Mathdino: I'm not that happy with the setup, and allowing scum to role block and night kill at the same time. That would mean that I would have to have predicted that, and focus on lynching that day. It punished me for doing the optimal thing, even though I find it boring. I don't see the point for giving scum more power when we have weak roles, why not just make it weak roles to weak roles. That way it wouldn't be as town sided, I'm not preaching for town sided setups here. I prefer mountainous, so I would be ok with it as it would be more day play. This just seemed more like being there to be a red herring.

Overall I was 40% salty. It's passed now, I'm going to just focus on other stuff like Mario Tennis Aces. Part of my salt is also just being night killed when I didn't expect it, and when I would actually prefer to be alive.

Anyway, Now I'm more just interested in critique and feedback of my play. I think I slipped a little.

Ranmaru · Post Post #22 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:14 am

I'm fine with releasing the QT.

Now, regardless, I'm glad you guys hosted this, it was a very interesting mechanic at least. I had fun with the game and would join future games. Peace.

Mathdino · Post Post #23 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:18 am

In post 21, Ranmaru wrote:Mathdino: I'm not that happy with the setup, and allowing scum to role block and night kill at the same time. That would mean that I would have to have predicted that, and focus on lynching that day. It punished me for doing the optimal thing, even though I find it boring. I don't see the point for giving scum more power when we have weak roles, why not just make it weak roles to weak roles. That way it wouldn't be as town sided, I'm not preaching for town sided setups here. I prefer mountainous, so I would be ok with it as it would be more day play. This just seemed more like being there to be a red herring.

This is fair.

IIRC, Una forgot that he could roleblock/kill on the same night the first time around anyway. So in all likelihood you 4 wouldn't have been put in that position in the first place, since he'd just roleblock Maria.

The unexpectedness of the traitor as a scum debuff probably would've crucified Maria claiming to have been strongmanned/roleblocked, yeah. I think I figured someone would bring up the traitor since NSG and I just ran a mini theme with the exact same recruitable traitor mechanic (to debuff the scumteam). My mod meta at the time of designing the setup was fairly predictable

Ranmaru · Post Post #24 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:20 am

There was a traitor?