Micro 813 - Game Over

[MafMen]

hell im voting oka rn

why is Oka more likely to be scum than Invisibility

i thought invis/korina/? was likely but when korina flipped green i dropped the read on invis

[Antihero]

your posting style makes it pretty hard to win an argument against you

idek what that means

you're the one trying to get a rise out of me by screaming "FAKE" and i'm the one trying to sidetrack...?

idg that either...

[OkaPoka]

you are slightly abrasive, snarky and sarcastic, and very confrontational. doesn't matter what alignment you are, people will naturally respect your conviction and others will be unwilling to fully confront you because we all know we will be humiliated even if we are right because simply put, you are better at this than everyone else.

[Antihero]

some people just have short fuses and don't like being called scum (me being one of them). that's why "defensiveness" sucks as a scumtell

^i mean... i'll own that i get pissy w ppl who scumread me (distinguishing between scum and townies with bad or nonexistent opinions is awful and, ultimately, why playing this game is just not for me bc THAT IS THE GAME)

the rest of that's in your head tho, man. i'm not any "better" just bc of my posting style and my reads are about average.

[GuiltyLion]

I'd like to think on my best day I could/would go 1v1 against Anti

haven't wanted to do that this game though because I've basically agreed with pretty much everything he's said. not that I'm disagreeing much with Oka either, seems like the two main points are:
1) Oka thinks Anti is faking annoyance with Invisibility
2) Anti thinks Oka is spreading needless paranoia about his slot
I disagree with 1) but I don't think it's necessarily scummy for Oka to feel that way. Agree with 2) but also don't think that's necessarily scummy.

Oka it does seem weird that you're saying it's dependent on Invis flipping scum - if Invisibility was town would that make Anti's frustration somehow less fake?

this kinda feels like a TvT to me though still without a confident read on Manatee/Otter it's hard to be sure about Oka

[GuiltyLion]

i thought invis/korina/? was likely but when korina flipped green i dropped the read on invis

why was Invis/Korina likely when Invis was driving the Korina wagon?! and how does Korina flipping town make Invis look less scummy?

[Antihero]

UNVOTE:

checking out for today and maybe tomorrow and won't leave at L2

[OkaPoka]

what i mean anti is if id argue with you, i dont think id ever come out on top in any day with any scenario

i think its less likely if invis flips town and anti is scum because anti doesn't need to go out of his way to fake frustration

he could just join the wagon and be like oh shucks

[OkaPoka]

though this all depends on scum!antihero's self confidence in getting a wagon off of him

because if he wasn't confident in his standing with the rest of town, town!invis would be towncred

but im pretty sure most people read him as town so i think that this would be a pointless play by scum!anti

[MafMen]

i thought invis/korina/? was likely but when korina flipped green i dropped the read on invis

why was Invis/Korina likely when Invis was driving the Korina wagon?! and how does Korina flipping town make Invis look less scummy?

i had a gutfeeling that invisibility was bussing korina as well as that post i quoted day 1 solidifying it for me
after the green flip i doubted that read on invis as well as i just cant imagine them being tvs

[OkaPoka]

well imagine harder then lol

whats the scumteam if u had to guess?

[MafMen]

shot in the dark
but

you and anti is all i can think of
i have a gut feeling your argument is staged but i could be wrong

other than that i strongly townread everyone else so i havent got a clue who scum #3 is

[MafMen]

and im not about to just pull a name out of a hat

[Oath]

worst case scenario imo is scum!antihero because he can argue his way out of being scum and probably get us to lynch anyone else while we are at it lol

i'd say you're less "just stating possibilities" and more "actively trying to sew paranoia"

^Okay this struck a cord with me because I didn't think Oka's statement was necessary either. Unnecessary is NAI though.

Anti is still town. Town town, towny town and it's going to be the thing that saves us.

hell im voting oka rn

why is Oka more likely to be scum than Invisibility

^This is why I town read Oka. Invis and Maf wagon early on with Maf throwing away their scum read on Invis entirely. It's also why I think Invis is the best lynch choice because they are the most likely to flip scum here- every logical scenario I run based on the votes has scum Invisibility with MafMan or Manatee.

The third teammate is where I'm stumped. I thought it was between GL and Otter (leaning hard towards GL being the scum) at one point because I wasn't thrilled with their interaction here:
viewtopic.php?p=10309517#p10309517
and here
viewtopic.php?p=10309531#p10309531

but now I'm thinking they'd both have to be scum AND Invisibility would have to be town for that to make sense re-reading
Plus GL's line of questioning and this breakdown:

Spoiler: here

I'd like to think on my best day I could/would go 1v1 against Anti

haven't wanted to do that this game though because I've basically agreed with pretty much everything he's said. not that I'm disagreeing much with Oka either, seems like the two main points are:
1) Oka thinks Anti is faking annoyance with Invisibility
2) Anti thinks Oka is spreading needless paranoia about his slot
I disagree with 1) but I don't think it's necessarily scummy for Oka to feel that way. Agree with 2) but also don't think that's necessarily scummy.

Oka it does seem weird that you're saying it's dependent on Invis flipping scum - if Invisibility was town would that make Anti's frustration somehow less fake?

this kinda feels like a TvT to me though still without a confident read on Manatee/Otter it's hard to be sure about Oka

The most endearing thing about this is that putting pressure on Oka here would have been easy for GL and he didn't. That's town baby.

PoE


Invisibility - SCUM
MafMen - scum
ManateeDude - scummy, but innocent until proven guilty

BlackStar

OkaPoka - innocent until proven guilty; possible scum if Maf is town (highly unlikely)
LuckyOtter - innocent until proven guilty ; possible scum if Invisibility is town AND GL is scum (THE MOST UNLIKELY - also, game over because we won't even get that far)
GuiltyLion - towny
Antihero - TOWN

[Oath]

@MOD : HAPPY BIRTHDAY

[Kublai Khan]

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Vote Count

Invisiblity - 3 - GuiltyLion, OkaPoka, Oath
OkaPoka - 2 - Invisibility, MafMen

Not Voting - LuckyOtter, ManateeDude, Antihero

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

LuckyOtter V/LA until 7/16/18.
Still Looking for a replacement for ManateeDude


Deadline: (expired on 2018-07-22 13:32:13)

[MafMen]

@MOD : HAPPY BIRTHDAY

[OkaPoka]

@mod what happens when we reach the deadline without a lynch?

[LuckyOtter]

Here. I'll be catching up today.

[LuckyOtter]

The TLDR:
Townreading: Oath, Antihero, Oka
Null: GuiltyLion
Scumreading: Mafmen, Invisibility > Manatee

The T:
-Antihero v Oka reads as TvT to me. Stronger TR on Anti than Oka. Oka has the ability to be both genuinely engaged in a game while getting sidetracked with pointless squabble.
-I agree with Anti that Invis is going to be a lylo liability. I don't like the initial vote on Manatee, though the vote on Korina seems fine. D2, he gives some reads with no explanation. There's nothing offensive to the current gamestate in it so this would be a really easy list to throw up as scum. I'd say Invis!scum means Maf!scum and Oka!town based on his reads and who he ends up voting.
- Mafmen is a strong scumread. There are some posts that feel fake to me (the reactions to the Korina hammer come to mind. When I get more time later tonight I'll come back to this thought). It continues to bother me how hesitant he is with his scumreads. When he does finally come up with some reads, he gives {Invis, Korina, Oka} based entirely on PoE and ends up voting Korina D1 and Oka D2, still based on PoE. Sixteen pages in and there's still no substance to this read other than he thinks the argument between Oka and Anti is contrived (so why not scumread Anti as well? because it's not popular to do so?) So, in a scumteam of Maf and Invis, both are scumreading each other while never voting each other, and they both end up voting Korina D1 and Oka D2. Lynching either of these peeps should give us some good info.
- Manatee actually feels scummiest to me. He's done literally nothing of substance except complain about the early wagon on himself, townread Oath and Oka for no real reason, and vote me on gut. Also, the claim that he and Maf could never be SvS is unsubstantiated and suspicious. However, I don't think lynching this slot is very helpful at the moment.

Gut says Mafmen slightly scummier, but Invisibility being a liability going forward makes an equally good candidate, maybe better because if we lynch Maf and he turns up town, I don't feel much better about Invis!town, whereas if we lynch Invis and he turns up town, I feel somewhat better about Maf!town and burning down my reads and starting over.

intent to vote Invisibility

but not going to put at L-1 until Manatee's replacement comes and catches up. I also have complicated feelings about GL that I want to explore before the end of the day and don't have time to right now.

One of Manatee/GL is likely scum off the Korina lynch, but probably not both. Manatee much more likely but I want to keep rereading GL.

GL can I just get a clarification as to what extent you value reading someone based on tone vs. content? Like, are they both valuable, and are they equally valuable to you?

More later. Sorry not to have been able to keep up while away and if that caused the game to slow down.

[Antihero]

yeah... atp invis has to go

I also have complicated feelings about GL that I want to explore before the end of the day and don't have time to right now.

most interesting sentence in above post

Mafmen is a strong scumread. There are some posts that feel fake to me (the reactions to the Korina hammer come to mind. When I get more time later tonight I'll come back to this thought). It continues to bother me how hesitant he is with his scumreads. When he does finally come up with some reads, he gives {Invis, Korina, Oka} based entirely on PoE and ends up voting Korina D1 and Oka D2, still based on PoE. Sixteen pages in and there's still no substance to this read other than he thinks the argument between Oka and Anti is contrived (so why not scumread Anti as well? because it's not popular to do so?) So, in a scumteam of Maf and Invis, both are scumreading each other while never voting each other, and they both end up voting Korina D1 and Oka D2. Lynching either of these peeps should give us some good info.
So, in a scumteam of Maf and Invis, both are scumreading each other while never voting each other, and they both end up voting Korina D1 and Oka D2. Lynching either of these peeps should give us some good info.

that scumread...

(i mean... mafmen is kind of explicitly scumreading me)

honestly, the worst thing mafmen's done is the hammer reaction but it could easily be genuine

are invis and mafmen really scumreading each other...?

[MafMen]

ill say it again
i apologise for cutting discussion time ahort, not for hammering as korina was a scumread, even if just by poe
it wasnt solely on poe because a post invis made on korina being scum sounded fake af
but since korina flipped green i decided to change the read

anti and oka started as poe but their argument feels fake, and i am scumreading anti, tf are you talking about

[MafMen]

short*

[LuckyOtter]

since yall aint scummy im just gonna poe this shit

Almost Definitely Town: GuiltyLion, Manatee, LuckyOtter, Oath
Slight Town: Antihero

Scum POE : Invisibility, Korina, OkaPoka (probably will change later)

someone case me, because other than saying im "neutral" and anti's case, i havent heard anything else

You went from this to scumreading anti with very little explanation other than reading their argument as fake, is what I'm talking about.

[LuckyOtter]

yeah... atp invis has to go

I also have complicated feelings about GL that I want to explore before the end of the day and don't have time to right now.

most interesting sentence in above post

Interesting how? Be explicit.

are invis and mafmen really scumreading each other...?

That is indeed the question and my point. They both give the appearance of scumreading each other without really following through on it. Invis reads Maf as null but puts him in his lynch basket (but doesn't vote him) and Maf gives an early scumread of invis then backs out of it, supposedly because his scumread of invis hinged on korina being scum. If invis flips scum my money is on Maf using this excuse to back out of voting his partner.