Micro 814: Geriatric Trio (Mafia Victory!!!)

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #275 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:13 pm

Post by Not_Mafia »

In post 269, Invisibility wrote:
In post 262, hitogoroshi wrote:also separate from my rant:
In post 260, Invisibility wrote:oh dang thassa a good post welp guys you me right in the headlights im the godfather gg town
What do you think KMDs alignment is? This feels like the kind of post you make on someone you're crossvoting with.
your stuff about associatives with N_M took a dent to his towniness
he rests at lightly townie

btw n_m is still scum
I'm not. little awkward
Also, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?
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Post Post #276 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:16 pm

Post by Kmd4390 »

Too tired to do things. Still like my vote where it is.
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Post Post #277 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:58 am

Post by Aristophanes »

Searching for a replacement for ceejayvinoya :(

Deadline paused at 48 hours.
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Post Post #278 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:16 am

Post by nonny »

In post 276, Kmd4390 wrote:Too tired to do things. Still like my vote where it is.
Seriously? How about you actually answer Viz’s 258 instead of just throwing shade?
*insert bad joke here*
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Post Post #279 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:19 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

In post 278, nonny wrote:
In post 276, Kmd4390 wrote:Too tired to do things. Still like my vote where it is.
Seriously? How about you actually answer Viz’s 258 instead of just throwing shade?
I'll be back this weekend. I'm working 16 hour days right now.
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Post Post #280 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:03 am

Post by Aristophanes »

MichelSableheart replaces ceejayvinoya!

Countdown restarts now, 48 hours :)
(expired on 2018-08-17 17:00:00)
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Post Post #281 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:05 am

Post by Invisibility »

hi
Invisibility is actually AWESOME!
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Post Post #282 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:44 pm

Post by nonny »

It’s like the name gets longer with each replacement, like the opposite of those Russian nesting dolls.

Hello Michel, thoughts on the game?
*insert bad joke here*
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Post Post #283 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:07 pm

Post by MichelSableheart »

Hey all, glad to be here. Trying to squeeze in this post before leaving to work, so I'll probably keep things shorter then I would like.

After reading the entire thread, I've got 3 relatively strong townreads:
  1. Hito. His railing against apathy in #261 feels unlikely to come from scum. There's absolutely no need for Hito scum to rock the boat like he's doing there.
  2. kmd. His willingness to change his mind regarding Oath felt pretty town to me. His stance regarding Not_Mafia seems to indicate someone who's trying to actually think through how likely someone is to be scum. His defense of NM is not strong enough to claim town points on a town flip, and isn't strong enough to save an NM partner, so seems unlikely to come from scum.
  3. Not_Mafia. I agree that his playstyle isn't very helpful for town. However, from what I've seen of NM's meta, this playstyle could easily come from both town and scum from him. What makes me put NM firmly in the town category is the way other players respond to him. A playstyle like his is an ideal target for scum, as attacking this playstyle allows mafia to be seen doing things while effectively contributing nothing. NM is getting lazily attacked by almost everyone. The only exception is kmd, and even he seems meh-ish regarding that lynch. There's noone who could reasonably be a scum partner trying to defend NM from a lynch. There's noone who's attack on NM is solid enough to claim the town points that would make bussing worth it. Then it seems far more likely that NM is town and both mafia are happy with his lynch.
UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

I would be happy to lynch any of the other 3. I don't have time to do a thorough analysis on each of them at the moment, but I like the composition of the Nonny wagon, and there isn't that much time till deadline. Therefore:

VOTE: Nonny
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Post Post #284 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:21 pm

Post by nonny »

So to clarify you are voting me simply based on who else is voting me?
*insert bad joke here*
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Post Post #285 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:21 pm

Post by MichelSableheart »

Not solely, but it's part of the reason. Going fully into my reasons would have required doing the analysis I mentioned, that I didn't have time for as I had to hurry to work.
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Post Post #286 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:25 pm

Post by MichelSableheart »

Hito, what were you trying to achieve with your "why not self hammer?" comment in #106?

It seems that that comment was an important cause for Oath self voting, and by extension of the Oath mislynch.
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Post Post #287 (ISO) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:08 am

Post by Music Box »

Hi Michel!

Nonny is now
at L-1
by the way.


I'm giving
Intent to hammer
. Nonny, please claim in your next post.
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Post Post #288 (ISO) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:15 am

Post by Music Box »

Pressed submit instead of preview there.

Meant to add:

@ Michel: If you want more time to catch up before the Day ends I can wait till tomorrow before I hammer.
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Post Post #289 (ISO) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:48 am

Post by MichelSableheart »

Ok, so I had promised to do some analysis on the three players I don't have a town read on.

Musicbox has a habit of not adding much actual content. Take a look at her day 1 play:
  • The top suspect day 1 was Oath. There was the L-1 wagon, Oath's VT claim, self vote, and eventually the deadline lynch. So what does musicbox have to say on Oath? There's post #118, where she asks Oath not to self vote but doesn't give an opinion on Oath's alignment. There's post 146, where upon being explicitly asked her opinion of Oath, she gives an answer that doesn't go strongly either way, but kind of implies that she doesn't really believe Oath's selfvoting is a scumgambit. And that's it really.
  • So, who does she express suspicion of during day 1? She mentions Komala in post #118, saying that she'll explain more later that evening or the next morning. Where does she come back to that? In post #213, well into day 2, where she remembers that she never followed up on her promise to explain why she was scumreading Komala... And then proceeds not to explain why she was scumreading Komala.
  • Let's look at her other accusation in post #118, Nonny. She debates with Nonny quite a bit during day 1, but never makes an actual accusation against her. The only thing Musicbox has to say in #118 is gut. Which allows her to be happily alone on her wagon, with no chance whatsoever of anyone joining her there.
  • Finally, there's Red/NM. The slot that she's voting at the end of the day. What does she have to say about them? If she has to choose one of the wagons she'll choose that one (#118) because RC was scummier then invisibility (#148). And that's all the reasoning I can find here.
Now admittedly, day 2 is slightly better. She actually gives solid reasoning in #205 on her vote for Nonny. Her reasoning in #236 is meager though. Not_Mafia has his reputation for a reason. If his reputation is that he doesn't explain himself, then that's the case both when he's town and when he's scum. So why assume it comes from scum in this game?
Overall, I can easily see her playstyle coming from scum. Give opinions, but make sure they're not going to cause any waves. That way, when the others have to decide who to vote for, they'll simply forget you'll exist.

Invisibility has the same problem, but worse. There are only three posts he made during day 1 that actually give us some insight in his thoughts on the other players. There's post #86, where he explains he's wishywashy on Cheesy. There's #123, which actually gives some reasoning for why he feels Oath's town. And finally, there's #133. That last post tells us his opinions on everyone, but the reasoning is weak enough that he can still change his opinion in whatever direction he chooses.
Basically, Invisibility gives me the feeling that he isn't really doing anything much. I can't even make an overview for him as I did for musicbox, as most of his posts are low content oneliners. Which makes the "n_m not doing anything is kinda scummy" in #234 quite hypocritical. If he believes it's good for scum to not do anything, then his not doing anything could be quite intentional.

However, it's Nonny's voting record that to me is worse then the active lurking of either music box or Invisibility. The major alternative to an Oath lynch was invisibility. Nonny pressure voted him in #121. This brought invisibility at L-2 (magna, kmd and Nonny) whereas Oath was only at L-3 (Komala, who was inactive, and Oath's self vote). However, exactly one day later, Nonny unvotes. Her reasoning? She'll have limited access around deadline, and isn't confident in her vote to leave it there. So what does she do? In #161, still during her V/LA around deadline, she votes Oath, bringing the momentum back in that direction. And her reasoning? It's the classic scum copout. She doesn't really believe Oath is scummy, but feels Oath is playing badly, and doesn't want to risk the WIFOM.
On day 2, she's doing exactly the same. Her main points against Not_Mafia (as listed in #274) are his lack of content and anti-town playstyle.
Basically, it seems she isn't really scumhunting, but instead is attacking players who are playing poorly. Which is exactly what scum want to do when they want to push mislynches.
It's made worse by #149, which basically feels like she's feeling out a Not_Mafia hammer while avoiding all responsibility for it.
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Post Post #290 (ISO) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:50 am

Post by MichelSableheart »

In post 288, Music Box wrote:Pressed submit instead of preview there.

Meant to add:

@ Michel: If you want more time to catch up before the Day ends I can wait till tomorrow before I hammer.
I'm all caught up now. I can imagine others might want some time to respond to me, but you don't need to wait for me.
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Post Post #291 (ISO) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:13 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

VC 2.7
nonny
(3): Not_Mafia , Kmd4390 , MichelSableheart
Not_Mafia
(2): Invisibility , Music Box
MichelSableheart
(1): hitogiroshi

Not Voting
(1): nonny

Posts reset in (expired on 2018-08-17 17:00:00).
D2 will end when a majority is reached or on August 16/18 at 10:00pm EST in (expired on 2018-08-17 17:00:00).
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.


Mod Notes:

Prodding ceejayvinoya and Not_Mafia
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Post Post #292 (ISO) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:22 pm

Post by Not_Mafia »

So we're lynching nonny right?
Also, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?
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Post Post #293 (ISO) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:08 pm

Post by nonny »

Not sure how I didn’t register prior that musicboc wasn’t voting me. Pings me as weird. Since she was seemingly focused on me. Whole interaction feels off.
VOTE: musicbox/vote]

Hard to scumhunt, Michel, when everyone is seemingly tip toeing with nothing standing out as overtly scummy. I’ve voiced my frustration in the lack of content numerous times while asking questions and trying to generate content. My v/la wasn’t as limited as I had expected, not going to defend my oath vote, I voiced all I need to about it day 1.

I have nothing to claim. I’m as vanilla as can be.
*insert bad joke here*
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Post Post #294 (ISO) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:15 pm

Post by hitogoroshi »

oh boy it's like the forth time this fuckin game where I started tugging on a thread and instead of getting to confirm or break out of tunnel, they just repped out
In post 286, MichelSableheart wrote:Hito, what were you trying to achieve with your "why not self hammer?" comment in #106?

It seems that that comment was an important cause for Oath self voting, and by extension of the Oath mislynch.
Just trying to get more input from Oath on their perception of the self-push to suss out if it was town or scum. Saying you MUST be the lynch today and then not doing it is something scumbolinas do a lot, y'know?
In post 283, MichelSableheart wrote:Not_Mafia. I agree that his playstyle isn't very helpful for town. However, from what I've seen of NM's meta, this playstyle could easily come from both town and scum from him. What makes me put NM firmly in the town category is the way other players respond to him. A playstyle like his is an ideal target for scum, as attacking this playstyle allows mafia to be seen doing things while effectively contributing nothing. NM is getting lazily attacked by almost everyone. The only exception is kmd, and even he seems meh-ish regarding that lynch. There's noone who could reasonably be a scum partner trying to defend NM from a lynch. There's noone who's attack on NM is solid enough to claim the town points that would make bussing worth it. Then it seems far more likely that NM is town and both mafia are happy with his lynch.
I mean...if he's scum, he only has a single scumbuddy. It's totally possible that he has a scumbuddy who thinks he needs to be bussed as an inevitability, or is just too lazy to defend, or too scared of being anchored to him. The game is too small to use wagonflow as a general argument, you have to cough up specific names.

I don't like how much Michel's post seems to be focused on on-decking the next two lynches, instead of actually sussing out the alignments. Like he says "Now admittedly, day two is better..." re: Music Box like he's disappointed by it (even though it's not his vote!). But y'know, FOR SURE at least one of those three names is town, so shouldn't you be interested in puzzling that out. But the post seems to be solely focused on digging up dirt, not more sorting. Seems like he took the remit of "this is my town read box, this is my scum read box, and this is why" really strictly and artificially.

So I still think Michel's a great lynch, but we have no time and not_mafia is a way better lynch than Nonny. Also ceejay-slot went from being something that makes the not_mafia wagon feel bad to looking like not_mafia's partner, and that makes me feel like a hundred times happier about it.

VOTE: Not_Mafia [L-1]
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Post Post #295 (ISO) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:40 pm

Post by hitogoroshi »

Like for real y'all, that Michel post is dinging Nonny for
Basically, it seems she isn't really scumhunting, but instead is attacking players who are playing poorly.
but then read his indictment on Invisibility
Basically, Invisibility gives me the feeling that he isn't really doing anything much. I can't even make an overview for him as I did for musicbox, as most of his posts are low content oneliners. Which makes the "n_m not doing anything is kinda scummy" in #234 quite hypocritical. If he believes it's good for scum to not do anything, then his not doing anything could be quite intentional.
How on earth are these in the same brain, never mind the same post? How much of the not_mafia koolaid do you have to be drinking to unironically type a sentence that starts with "If he believes it's good for scum to not do anything"? Looks an awful lot to me like he's trying to sell "going for the active lurker is scummy" today while also setting the stage to go for the other active lurker tomorrow
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Post Post #296 (ISO) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:24 pm

Post by nonny »

Given deadline is less than 6hours and I know I’m a bad lynch. VOTE: not_mafia
*insert bad joke here*
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Post Post #297 (ISO) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:52 pm

Post by hitogoroshi »

just to repeat it for posterity if not_mafia flips scum I am 100% looking at michel as the partner
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Post Post #298 (ISO) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:21 pm

Post by MichelSableheart »

In post 293, nonny wrote:Not sure how I didn’t register prior that musicboc wasn’t voting me. Pings me as weird. Since she was seemingly focused on me. Whole interaction feels off.
VOTE: musicbox/vote]

Hard to scumhunt, Michel, when everyone is seemingly tip toeing with nothing standing out as overtly scummy. I’ve voiced my frustration in the lack of content numerous times while asking questions and trying to generate content. My v/la wasn’t as limited as I had expected, not going to defend my oath vote, I voiced all I need to about it day 1.

I have nothing to claim. I’m as vanilla as can be.
Interesting...

My accusation was that you were attacking based on poor play of your targets, rather then scummy play of your targets.

You seem to have misunderstood my accusation, latching on to the "not scumhunting at all" part and treating it as though I was accusing you of active lurking.

Given that, I would have expected you to defend yourself by pointing to your attacks on Oath and NM (the ones I felt were attacking over poor play) as examples of your scumhunting.

Instead, you come up with an explanation for why you aren't scumhunting. Which kind of implies that you yourself don't consider your attacks on Oath and NM scumhunting.

What's up with that?

---
I'll have to retract my townread of hito, I fear. Not_Mafia is a very bad lynch. Hito's pushing it through without even considering that my arguments might come from a town perspective.

Calling a Hito-Nonny pairing.
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Post Post #299 (ISO) » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:05 am

Post by MichelSableheart »

Not much point for me in responding to Hito's accusations right now, as there's no more opportunity to convince anyone regarding today's lynch. I'll defend myself tomorrow if I'm still alive by then.

But in case I'm not alive tomorrow, I would once again like to emphasize that, assuming a NM townflip, hito-nonny is by far the most likely scumpairing.
There is no 'a' in Michel.
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