Micro 815: Greatest Idea - Game Over

[Hiraki]

Yeah when I quote Gemini and then vote Guacamole that is absolutely not talking about the bet that I was talking about earlier. It's just absolute coincidence that I found one person who I thought was half right but then tried to explain my views more and then randomly voted the other one.

Total coincidence. I'm a enigma man.

[Ircher]

Do I really need to respond to Ircher? Does anyone really believe anything he just said? I wrote something up and I couldn't believe it. Everything he said was just flatout bullshit. Here were some highlights because it was getting too complicated. Usually I admit to some fallacies in my logic but MAN, there's just nothing solid there.

1) Ircher complained that I did not respond to Laser's question after Ircher killed him.
2) Ircher complained that I did not talk about my Guac/Gemini post. He also decided to quote the same post where I did that but skipped the part where I talked about it. Go figure! Must be a coincidence!
3) Ircher believes that his own opinion of the game is also my opinion of the game, regarding Laser and N_M.
4) Ircher just happened to believe that I was scum after I voted him. Just a coincidence!

1) The question was asked very early. Regardless, this is a non-point.
2) Because you didn’t and continue to show that you didn’t. Only recently did you explain it after Guacomole Meade it very explicit and clear what they wanted.
3) Proof/Elaborate here please.
4) Yes, it’s directly related to the fact you voted me. Why? Because your case on me is awful and is at best as good as mine on you. Please tell me how this is significantly indicative of my alignment.

Pedit: That still doesn’t explain much. Again, multiple people wanted to know why you stated you bet at least one of them is scum.

[Ircher]

To be clear, in 54, it looked like you were simply answering Gemini’s question about you discarding mason, and this, one cannot *reasonably* that there is a connection between the quote and your Guacomole vote.

[Ircher]

To be clear, in 54, it looked like you were simply answering Gemini’s question about you discarding mason, and this, one cannot *reasonably* presume that there is a connection between the quote and your Guacomole vote.

ENWOP

[guacamole]

I took the 2nd half of 16 followed by 53 to be a reaction test / trap, trying to find someone who reacted to it on the assumption that if you get really lucky you'll find two scum.
That's why 53 asks LaserGuy who the partner was. It appears you thought you got scum in the trap set by 16.
Now you're saying it wasn't real to begin with, which is actually a bit surprising. Walking it back in 120 makes the question in 53 stand out even more as being weird.

[Micc]

Votecount 1.04

Not_Mafia (2) -

RadiantCowbells, brassherald

Ircher (1) -

Hiraki

Hiraki (1) -

Ircher

Not Voting (4) -

Not_Mafia, ceejayvinoya, GeminiTwin12, guacamole

With 8 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2018-07-30 20:20:00).

[Hiraki]

How is 53 a reaction test if I vote you in the next post? That's not how that works.

[guacamole]

I took 16 to be the test, 17 to be the reaction, and 53 to be you asking Laser who (which of Gemini and me) his partner is.
It was also weird that you posted 53 after the flip. Unless you somehow thought that one of Gemini and myself could have started with two alien cards and remained alien, and that wasn't a question, it was a comment.

[Hiraki]

1) The question was asked very early. Regardless, this is a non-point.

No, you accused me on it. This is a point because, like I said earlier, you just happened to find that every post I made was scummy when I voted you. Not before I voted you, just when I voted you.

2) Because you didn’t and continue to show that you didn’t. Only recently did you explain it after Guacomole Meade it very explicit and clear what they wanted.

It's page 5 buddy. Don't act like I could've avoided something for 10 pages. The fact that you had to say that I explained it after Guac made it "very explicit and clear" just means that Guac wasn't clear in the first place but hey, I'm the one who has to answer so why not just TRY to put a bad spin on it.

3) Proof/Elaborate here please.

Under what logical basis is Hiraki making this statement? There is no reason to think Not_Mafia isn't alien; absolutely positively zero reasoning. If we presume Not_Mafia is scum though (which Radiant makes the meta argument that this is the case), then in all likelihood, this is scum!Hiraki white-knighting (this is a misuse of terminology) their scumbuddy Not_Mafia in a subtle way.

Under what logical basis is Hiraki making this statement? There is no reason to think Not_Mafia isn't alien; absolutely positively zero reasoning.

Try as hard as you want but unless you ask me the question, this is just the worst and most annoying statement you could ever make.

"I CAN'T UNDERSTAND HIRAKI SO INSTEAD OF ASKING HIM A QUESTION I WILL ACT LIKE HE IS DOING THINGS FOR NO REASON. PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE ME "

4) Yes, it’s directly related to the fact you voted me. Why? Because your case on me is awful and is at best as good as mine on you. Please tell me how this is significantly indicative of my alignment.

LOL

Considering you had no problem with me before now? Considering that half of your points are absolute garbage at best? Wonder how that could be indicative of alignment when you're accusing me of being scum on stupid arguments and just right after I voted you. Not sure what they call that nowadays....OHEMGEE? No, that's not it.

I took 16 to be the test, 17 to be the reaction, and 53 to be you asking Laser who (which of Gemini and me) his partner is.
It was also weird that you posted 53 after the flip. Unless you somehow thought that one of Gemini and myself could have started with two alien cards and remained alien, and that wasn't a question, it was a comment.

OK but Laser died. So I wasn't asking Laser, I was just showing everyone a post that I thought was strange at first (so I guess you have something there with the reaction test? I don't think I'd explicitly call it that though. I wasn't trying to get reactions. As I said before, it was a bet.) and asking "Who (out of these two) is the partner?" and you're right. After reading that a few times, the exclamation point was a little bit more confused than usual. Was just happy for a potential early game informational flip more than anything but also wanted to go for the question.

[guacamole]

Dayvig isn't necessarily town, but Ircher's play leans that way.
I kinda get Ircher's case on Hiraki and have my own suspicions there too. I'd have to go back over it slowly to see if there is scum motivation or if it's just bad.
RC's meta on Not_Mafia is enough for me to vote there, in the absence of N_M doing some town play.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[guacamole]

IMO Brassherald's reaction to my stats post is a little too policy driven and not paying enough attention to the context. I'll need to see more posting, I don't see it as being AI yet.

[guacamole]

Don't think the rest have enough posts to give a reliable read on.

[ceejayvinoya]

Ceejay, are you maintaining that the only way to pull town motivations from discards is if there are strong non-town role discards?

Uh yes. I think us will, upon receiving our cards, will first look at abilities and see which one is most useful or powerful, then look at the alignments and see which alignment benefits the most.

[ceejayvinoya]

An interesting corollary is that the probability of non-town cards remaining in a hand is higher if the discard is town.

Duh

[ceejayvinoya]

VOTE: Ircher

I think this guy is scum.

[ceejayvinoya]

Oh nvm I just remembered he shot Laser

UNVOTE:

[brassherald]

Oh nvm I just remembered he shot Laser

UNVOTE:

I don't like this post, it rubs me the wrong way.

[ceejayvinoya]

*shrug*

Let's just say that right now, I FOS Ircher. A lot of his posts pings bad to me.

[ceejayvinoya]

Why Hiraki is Scum:

1. In 16:

Sorry. I wanted to do Mason. I just didn't think that it was reasonably possible for others to draw it.

(In response to Not_Mafia's vote in 6): While it is not unreasonable to presume that Not_Mafia's vote is directly related to Hiraki's discard, there really is zero point to make this fact obvious and try to defend oneself. The way I see it is this is scum!Hiraki trying to get suspicion off their back.

One of Gemini and guac is scum btw. Willing to bet money on that.

This is an interesting statement considering that none of the roles in this game have a Night 0 action that lets you *know* someone is scum. Now, as for scum motivation, scum!Hiraki is basically employing WIFOM here: either both of them are town (and he knows that), so he wants town to chain-mislynch one after the other after his death OR one of them is his scumbuddy, and he wants town to NOT lynch in them under the WIFOM argument of the first case.

2. In 53:

Which one is the partner!

(In response to LaserGuy's 17 where Laser asks for Hiraki to explain): This is a complete evasion of answering the posed question and gives zero additional information. Scum!Hiraki here wants people to ignore his earlier statement as being unimportant and not related to his alignment (or the alignment of the people he named.) I.e.: Hiraki wants to avoid accountability for that statement.

3. In 54:

Willing to put N_M in the not Alien jar.

Under what logical basis is Hiraki making this statement? There is no reason to think Not_Mafia isn't alien; absolutely positively zero reasoning. If we presume Not_Mafia is scum though (which Radiant makes the meta argument that this is the case), then in all likelihood, this is scum!Hiraki white-knighting (this is a misuse of terminology) their scumbuddy Not_Mafia in a subtle way.

This is just bad talking in general. Most of Laser's play is very readable as "I know what I'm saying" and "I'm bullshitting"

(While referencing 28): This is a useless post (especially considering I had already vigged Laser by this point) that is scum looking like they are doing something.

4. In 111:

Yeah, I'm with RC here. I hate that wagon speed and I hate the reasons that others joined it. I joined it because Gemini/Guac seems like one of them is ayylmao.

This is scum!Hiraki trying to pocket/please Radiant. The wording helps Hiraki's case zero--it just makes me even more inclined to think that scum!Hiraki is saying this just to get Radiant to townread them.

This is the worst vote of the game, hands down.

(Referring to my vote in 68): Considering that you were voting Guacomole at the time, you really can't say my vote is the worst vote of the game without at least elaborating. This is scum!Hiraki throwing shade.

This is a little better but not great. I don't get why you say "I think he did something!" without highlighting it when the person clearly doesn't see that.

(Referring to Brass's vote in 70): What do you expect at this point? A 20-point scumcase on a person? Because that's basically what you are asking for. Also, if we want to be fair, brass's vote is marginally better than mine vote as the basic reasoning is the same--brass simply goes into much greater depth than me.

I'm gonna vote you real quick if you keep this garbage up

(While quoting my 80): This is simply uncalled for and feels like scum that is just trying to find ways to scumread me.

I want him first.

Clarify what you mean by "him". Do you mean me or RadiantCowbells (or Not_Mafia)?

to be clear I don't even have a read on N_M, I think RC is being a little grabby (which tbh is OK for N_M) but Ircher is just not playing town here.

The first two-thirds of this statement are okay, but you really haven't explained (or tried to explain) how I am "not playing town here". As far as I can tell, your reasons amount to 1) making what you consider "the worst vote of the game, hands down" (which isn't extremely alignment-indicative) and 2) doing stuff that you dislike (from a non-alignment-indicative stance) and/or simply consider to be "bad play" (but you have made no indication that said play is scum play--even with your "not playing town here" statement, you aren't really stating I am scum but rather I am doing bad things or "anti-town" things.) This to me is a tell-tell sign of scum trying to get a mislynch on an easier-to-lynch player.

I read it on the basis that I knew what N_M was thinking. I don't know where you got that moontheory.

(In response to 105 by Guacomole): This is again a non-answer to the question being asked. In particular, I don't think the quoted part of Guacomole's post had anything to do with the part where you state why you discarded mason (which I presume Not_Mafia voted you for). I also see zero connection between one of Guac and Gemini being scum and Not_Mafia's content in the game so far. You call it a "moontheory", but in reality, it is you who is making stuff and misrepresenting/misinterpreting stuff so as to fit your scum narrative.

VOTE: Hiraki
This needs to die.

Damn. This is actually a nice case. You're confusing the heck out of me Ircher. Idk where to place you.

[ceejayvinoya]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Hiraki]

What a terrible opening. Not only did you somehow agree with Ircher's case, you then voted against his wagon.

Regardless of alignment, wow.

[GeminiTwin12]

When I'm actually free later I'll go read though the Ircher / Hiraki interactions or at least attempt.

[GeminiTwin12]

What a terrible opening. Not only did you somehow agree with Ircher's case, you then voted against his wagon.

Regardless of alignment, wow.

How do you think your case on Ircher is better than their case on you? What's the gist or main basis for yours?

[ceejayvinoya]

As much as I'd like to weigh in on Hiraki vs Ircher, I have no idea what to say. I ended up getting more and more confused as I read onto it. Idk. I'll just grab a good night's sleep and try again tomorrow.

NM feels like a good plan b to me atm.

[Not_Mafia]

ceejay is obvscum here