Micro 826: Double Day Unlimited (Game Over)

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #1950 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:04 pm

Post by Kmd4390 »

In post 1949, Katyusha wrote:thought about it for the entire day but im back on kmd/saudade vs oka/n_m being the possible teams and am heavily leaning the latter

want to do a full reread though
I don't think Saudade is town though...
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Post Post #1951 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:07 pm

Post by Katyusha »

i'm actually thinking that because oka is scum and you're now my strongest townread

oka scum/saudade scum seems kind of nonsensical? like it's *possible* i guess, especially if i were in full "listen to cheeky" mode, but what was his scum agenda this game? that's like what i'm having trouble nailing down and why i like n_m better as the partner
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Post Post #1952 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:10 pm

Post by Katyusha »

In post 92, OkaPoka wrote:
In post 91, Kmd4390 wrote:
In post 88, notasexualobject wrote:
In post 84, Kmd4390 wrote:^correction: I see you are already voting booth of them. So instead I'll ask this - why the self preservation votes already?
It's less of a survivalist attitude, and more of a "oshit there's going to a mislynch already without much discussion." Odd question though, "already". I don't understand this part. I've seen that typically self-preservation votes aren't accepted as town, but is there a point in time it is? Is it too early for me to be concerned about being lynched?
I mean...if deadline is like an hour away, a townie is at L-1 with intent declared, and they have a chance to hammer someone else, Id be surprised if they didn't. But seeing self preservation when half the game still has an RVS mindset is concerning.
notsexual wrote: That's fair. I hadn't realized I was being scummy up until I was called out for it. I found no reason to hide it because I hadn't realized that it pointed in the direction of me being scum.
Yikes...
I am hesitant to push this because he seems to have no qualms about revealing his intentions, though this mindset is still concerning.
In post 93, Kmd4390 wrote:I don't think he realizes how bad it sounds though and would probably hide if if he did. He basically said as much while responding to you.
believe it or not this is the post that swayed me

like oka's interactions with naso are just grimey in general but i think the interaction here doesn't come from svs and on your case it's a genuine attempt to connect and relate to someone seeing a similar read to you

just how oka seems to talk about naso feels like he's directly trying to put it in a specific box and talking at him, if that makes any sense
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Post Post #1953 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:12 pm

Post by Katyusha »

i dont think it's ever n_m/saudade because n_m finds a different lynchbait to spam "lynch x lynch x" about if saudade is actually about to die still

above clears oka/kmd

saudade/oka is? questionable but i think it's just around the point where they can distance and I guess that team is banking on me lynching whatever decoy partner there is today. i wont eliminate it i guess

nothing stops oka/n_m
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Post Post #1954 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:12 pm

Post by Katyusha »

N_M why aren't you voting me?
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Post Post #1955 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:14 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

can u do an in depth case on me
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Post Post #1956 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:15 pm

Post by Katyusha »

sure
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Post Post #1957 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:01 pm

Post by Katyusha »

I'm mostly focusing on D1 because that's before the gamestate seemed to turn into a Partially-Sheep-Katyusha-Down-A-Cliff circlejerk - I think before scum have a crutch of a loud, vocal townie to latch onto it's easier to catch fake thoughts.

Oka is also clearly a high content, high energy player and once the gamestate works out it's easier to get into the "groove" and post townier - hence why it was so easy for me to solidify my townread when he was making similar spitbally posts as I was.
In post 48, OkaPoka wrote:@performer, aww thanks :3 means a lot to hear my play complimented

@saudude, how would you recommend us play this early stage of the game then?

@notasexualobject, whats ur experience with mafia and forum mafia?

if im right it appears we all have checked in
In post 55, OkaPoka wrote:Okay, so if notasexualobject is indeed an experienced player/

im not entirely what to make of him being "pressured" into voting n_m in a jokey way
and also not entirely sure what to make of it because he was already voting him

~an observation~
I don't really like this observation at all - how was NASO pressured at all to vote n_m? He just kind of went for it at this point. This is the first instance we see of Oka applying motivations to other people without really having a reason to. Sure, sometimes I do that to people when I'm reading them (assume they vote with me because they think I'm town since they went with my rvs vote while I did something townie, think someone is trying to rile someone up for reactions when they're just memeing, etc), but what's different here is that Oka is trying to apply an intention to it. There isn't really a specific motivation behind giving someone a townread, while feeling pressured to do something insinuates scum motive.

Part of me thinks that the first question was meant to deliberately create a narrative where NASO should have more experience but I might be giving that thought way more credence than it deserves. It's highlighted though because Oka was at least thinking about Naso's experience.
In post 85, OkaPoka wrote:
In post 79, notasexualobject wrote:Heyo, I'm L-1 rn. Brilliant.

Anyways, I can't tell whether Saudade is scum or just being obnoxious about how boring this game is, either way, I'd be down to find out.

Oka seems to be scumhunting moreso than townhunting, so I'm willing to bet their town now.

No idea what to think of Not_Mafia, as him voting everyone and then unvoting on a townread is a common occurrence.

I'm going to be dropping this VOTE: Saudade because I don't feel comfortable with him having fewer votes then me.
This post worries me.

You are overtly stating that one of your primary reasons for dropping this vote is to equalize the vote count on you and Saudade to be the same. It concerns me because this is a scum mindset to have, especially this early in game, I can find no reason to have such a seriously survivalist attitude as town. However, it also bewilders me that you are so openly stating that you are voting Saudade because of your current predicament, I would think that scum would at least make an attempt at guising their deceit and true intentions rather than being so open with it.In essence, I find your mindset more likely to come from scum but I find your actions and words unlikely to come from scum.

Meh, originally I had a direction I was going to go with this but while I was typing I don't really know so this post is kind of meaningless but I figured I'd throw out my analysis out there for others to read and chime in.
More "this is what you're doing"-esque thoughts. I think the kind of waffling he has here is also indicative of him knowing that NASO is town here. For comparison, look at how KMD and I talk about NASO:

Spoiler:
In post 91, Kmd4390 wrote:
In post 88, notasexualobject wrote:
In post 84, Kmd4390 wrote:^correction: I see you are already voting booth of them. So instead I'll ask this - why the self preservation votes already?
It's less of a survivalist attitude, and more of a "oshit there's going to a mislynch already without much discussion." Odd question though, "already". I don't understand this part. I've seen that typically self-preservation votes aren't accepted as town, but is there a point in time it is? Is it too early for me to be concerned about being lynched?
I mean...if deadline is like an hour away, a townie is at L-1 with intent declared, and they have a chance to hammer someone else, Id be surprised if they didn't. But seeing self preservation when half the game still has an RVS mindset is concerning.
notsexual wrote: That's fair. I hadn't realized I was being scummy up until I was called out for it. I found no reason to hide it because I hadn't realized that it pointed in the direction of me being scum.
Yikes...
In post 93, Kmd4390 wrote:I don't think he realizes how bad it sounds though and would probably hide if if he did. He basically said as much while responding to you.
Clear "this is not really a town thought process" argument.
In post 178, Katyusha wrote:which i guess sums up how i feel about most of the scumreads on you - theyre kind of superficial and i think they can just as easily come from a new town player. like i feel like i saw points about your self awareness and calling yourself scummy and i swear i did that in one my first games as town lmao

like is your thought on saudade here objectively bad? yeah, as is saying Saudade town = cheeky scum Saudade scum = Aero town. but new players say things like that all the time, i don't see a particular reason it's motivated by a scum agenda here. bad isnt always equal to scum
"It's a bad thought process but it's not scum motivated"


Both of these are clear, defined stances, even if mine doesn't directly link to a specific alignment. Oka trying to talk about both alignments' perspectives, I think, comes from wanting to keep the push going while trying to keep the read grounded and not confident on page 5. It's hard to see the town reason for that, and I think town!Oka here would be more inquisitive about this. However, we barely see any follow up to this besides him continuing to wait for other people and "be hesitant", but then it later becomes "I'm gonna drop a case on this". ???? progression where
In post 92, OkaPoka wrote:
In post 91, Kmd4390 wrote:
In post 88, notasexualobject wrote:
In post 84, Kmd4390 wrote:^correction: I see you are already voting booth of them. So instead I'll ask this - why the self preservation votes already?
It's less of a survivalist attitude, and more of a "oshit there's going to a mislynch already without much discussion." Odd question though, "already". I don't understand this part. I've seen that typically self-preservation votes aren't accepted as town, but is there a point in time it is? Is it too early for me to be concerned about being lynched?
I mean...if deadline is like an hour away, a townie is at L-1 with intent declared, and they have a chance to hammer someone else, Id be surprised if they didn't. But seeing self preservation when half the game still has an RVS mindset is concerning.
notsexual wrote: That's fair. I hadn't realized I was being scummy up until I was called out for it. I found no reason to hide it because I hadn't realized that it pointed in the direction of me being scum.
Yikes...
I am hesitant to push this because he seems to have no qualms about revealing his intentions, though this mindset is still concerning.
Doesn't read like town vibing with town whatsoever. What's the point here? Is he trying to dissuade KMD from pushing NASO but then agree with his reasoning? It's kind of a bizarre post now that I look at it again.

All I can really read from it is maybe he's trying to reaffirm his hesitancy? But that's like straight scum motive
In post 108, OkaPoka wrote:Is it really nonsensical?

My issue with you right now is that you seem to be playing in a very selfish manner. You aren't cooperating, you seem content to let the game run without your presence so you can later swoop in and start working. The problem is the game needs some way to get rolling, and by refusing to interact and genuinely care, the entire game's progression is slowed down.

So then if we went to an extreme and everyone applied your style of play, we would end up having the game grind to a halt, unable to progress as everybody would be waiting for someone else to push the game forward.

I'll be honest with you, I'm trying to play this game in a slightly less rash playstyle that avoids confbiasing and trying to pick 1v1 fights with everyone, but refusal to comply and answer questions is going to be reason for me to loose my own restraints and deathtunnelling.
i cant explain what i hate about this post but its premise is just disgusting for the lack of a better word

we get some of that "I'm going to state what your motivations are for you :)" kind of thinking again. Sure, Saudade's rvs interactions are kind of limited in general, but so what? Why does it matter to criticize the way he's playing unless you think he's hiding behind it as scum? If you think he's going to swoop in later and start working and your intention here is to get him to post readable content, why would it hurt in this game to wait and let saudade interact with other people on his own volition?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Oka reads like he's trying to play Mafia-Theory-Moral-Compass than he is trying to read Saudade, and then puts the blame on him not liking Saudade's play on Saudade. I, like, personally don't think Oka is wrong to say this about Saudade but it's also NAI and I think Oka cares more about proving a point here than he does reading Saudade.

So, in a nutshell, what I dislike about early oka's play:
  • States people's motivations rather than parses them - comes from a mindset that's thinking "who do I need to push" rather than "who do I need to sort"
  • Cares more about being a moral compass who's Pro-Town and Good for Town, calling people lylo liabilities and chides them for play rather than alignment
  • Waffles at weird intervals to agree with people he wants to townread - another good example of this I excluded was . Initially he was pushing Cheeky!town, but when Aero gives reasons he disagrees he's like "oh i concede I'm wrong" and doesn't really... go anywhere with that? As town i expect most people to add a "but this is why I'm right" or a "so I guess you're right" to that, but Oka just keeps his read where it is.
I'm sure I could read further but I haven't gotten to my replace-in yet on my reread. This is just what I've noticed with flips now (Aero being town I guess was important for me to confirm, since I probably would have sidetracked myself there), and I fully expect that once I'm in the equation the game is thrown upside-down in an equally scum-beneficial way.
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Post Post #1958 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:14 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

ur case is fair and well reasoned. its also pretty accurate in describing my play. ill clarify on some stuff later when im free. disagree with sheeping katy tho. i would not describe this game like that at all.
but now

how does all of that point to me being scum? I want you to go all out. if you need to specifically clarify on anything hmu.
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Post Post #1959 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:15 pm

Post by Katyusha »

In post 1957, Katyusha wrote:States people's motivations rather than parses them -
comes from a mindset that's thinking "who do I need to push" rather than "who do I need to sort"

Cares more about being a moral compass who's Pro-Town and Good for Town, calling people lylo liabilities and chides them for play rather than alignment
(there is an implicit "than scumhunting" here)

Waffles at weird intervals to agree with people he wants to townread - another good example of this I excluded was 200. Initially he was pushing Cheeky!town, but when Aero gives reasons he disagrees he's like "oh i concede I'm wrong" and doesn't really... go anywhere with that?
As town i expect most people to add a "but this is why I'm right" or a "so I guess you're right" to that, but Oka just keeps his read where it is
.
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Post Post #1960 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:25 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

I agree that most town players don't play or think like I do.

but why is my play specifically from a scum mindset?
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Post Post #1961 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:34 pm

Post by Katyusha »

You, as town, think about who you need to tactically push instead of who you need to read? :?

You, as town, prioritize playstyle arguments over scumhunting? :?

Ok, maybe you might state that you disagree with people's thoughts or just say "you could be right" but like... ????
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Post Post #1962 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:46 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

1) where is your evidence for that? I'm curious. Also I think I made it clear in who I needed to get a good sort on early on.

2) I wouldn't say prioritize, rather I want to bring a discussion up that people weren't bringing up that I thought was pretty important. Anyways, my push on performer was based on hoping for a red flip rather than lylo liability.

3) wdym
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Post Post #1963 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:56 pm

Post by Saudade »

Im so pleased
Passion or coincidence once prompted you to say
"Pride will tear us both apart"
Well, now pride's gone out the window
Cross the rooftops, run away
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Post Post #1964 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:06 pm

Post by Katyusha »

oka to be blunt did you actually read my post because i literally just summed up the analysis i made based on the quotes which i used as evidence
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Post Post #1965 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:07 pm

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wtf my post got deleted.

1) naso was pressured by not_mafia to vote, he was prompted to go for it.

2) im trying to vocalize all my thoughts as clearly as possible because nancy said I should do that.

3) hesistant on naso because he was either a ceejay case or trinity case and repeating a trinity case went pretty poorly and made nancy cry.

4) saudade is either scum or anti town. winning as mafia is easy with lylo liabilities. looking with some hindsight, i should have stuck with guns and lynched lylo liabilities rather than my scumreads. but here we are.

pedit: skimmed it on my phone cuz im phone posting and at an event xd
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Post Post #1966 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:11 pm

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im home now so

still don't see the evidence for thinking about who to tactically push. what does that mean
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Post Post #1967 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:12 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

There isn't really a specific motivation behind giving someone a townread, while feeling pressured to do something insinuates scum motive.

can u clarify the above
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Post Post #1968 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:19 pm

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yes i make my reads by applying a motivation and seeing which side makes more sense.

u do the same it appears

i have been parsing motivations and stating motivations. i dont see the whole thing about how this is indicative of me thinking about who i need to push rather than sort tho. only actual way of getting a read is by pushing? anybody can pretend to be town, its not hard. motivation is everything.

yes lylo liabilities are indeed liabilities. rn id rather have performer and gamma talking than saudade and n_m but i fked up.
i stand by the naso lynch as necessary.

me talking with cheeky later was me resorting cheeky.
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Post Post #1969 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:20 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

@n_m pls answer my question
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Post Post #1970 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:21 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

Doesn't read like town vibing with town whatsoever. What's the point here? Is he trying to dissuade KMD from pushing NASO but then agree with his reasoning? It's kind of a bizarre post now that I look at it again.

All I can really read from it is maybe he's trying to reaffirm his hesitancy? But that's like straight scum motive
Why is this scum motive?
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Post Post #1971 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:28 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

@saudade case me
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Post Post #1972 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:31 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

actually

@everyone case me
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Post Post #1973 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:53 pm

Post by Saudade »

You know whats the case on you im not repeating myself every 10 pages lol
Passion or coincidence once prompted you to say
"Pride will tear us both apart"
Well, now pride's gone out the window
Cross the rooftops, run away
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Post Post #1974 (ISO) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:13 pm

Post by Saudade »

In post 1950, Kmd4390 wrote:
In post 1949, Katyusha wrote:thought about it for the entire day but im back on kmd/saudade vs oka/n_m being the possible teams and am heavily leaning the latter

want to do a full reread though
I don't think Saudade is town though...
Now now woofboy theres no need for that
Passion or coincidence once prompted you to say
"Pride will tear us both apart"
Well, now pride's gone out the window
Cross the rooftops, run away
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