Micro 993 | The End

[Momrangal]

Momrangal congrats on making two posts that convinced me you were softing Seer was that intentional?

No

[Momrangal]

I thought froggie killed me so he wouldn't have anyone on his back about OCEAN

[Frogsterking]

I think this was an unfortunate clash of playstyles on town's part and not really any individual's fault. Don't feel too bad.

It seems this way to me, yes. Maybe if I had opened faster with the big survey start it would have enabled us to overcome the playstyle clash before it was too late.

[Frogsterking]

I thought froggie killed me so he wouldn't have anyone on his back about OCEAN

I wonder if it would have helped get town on the same page in a way that completely changed the outcome of this game.

I was working on improving the questions when something happened IRL which was why I didn't post it. When I came back to the thread it was already in D2.

[Momrangal]

Finral was a big gun, him trying to avoid the NK by doing something scummy makes sense and I'm a good deep wolfer, it makes sense that he'd want to check me

[Momrangal]

I also didn't realize I had put NM at Lim-1 tho so

[Flavor Leaf]

to be fair, I trapped him with my "He's just gonna claim Seer" trick.

No you actually mis played heavily.

I clearly misplayed here

[Flavor Leaf]

I played it all wrong, I was the seer and had a guilty on Finral

I tried to ride Finral and hoped that possibly his partner would have jumped on, and then pushed for Finral to eat rope, and survive the next night giving us a better chance of winning the game, as I would have either found the second scum, or got an inno. In normal circumstances I would have came out with the counter claim had we had a doctor, or some sort of blocking feature. Sorry guys/girl.

Nice.

Yeah, it was either you or Frog, so I just pigeonholed you into it.

I'm writing a guide on how to open wolf 101.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think Finral does get executed in most game states there.

I've played this setup so many times in face to face, when you see the scum PT, we called out exactly how this day would play.

[Flavor Leaf]

To be fair, I knew exactly what I had to do to get Amelie to vote in an area I wanted her to. It was just unfortunate that nobody knew that my alt was outed, because if she knew that was me, I don't think it'd have worked.

So don't feel bad, Amelie, I kind of played the setup specifically to get you to vote one of them.

[Flavor Leaf]

to be fair, I trapped him with my "He's just gonna claim Seer" trick.

No you actually mis played heavily.

I clearly misplayed here

it was only a misplay on a mechanical level, not a sociological level.

I also knew I had the support of Klick who trusts me as a player, and then you spewed yourself scum afterwards by speaking.

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually

VOTE: Not Mafia

I have a guilty on Kop.

VOTE: Kop

But actually, can we talk about this legendary quick hammer without intent followed by the guilty claim, both on Page 2.

How To Open Wolf 101

[Momrangal]

I knew

[Frogsterking]

I think Finral does get executed in most game states there.

I've played this setup so many times in face to face, when you see the scum PT, we called out exactly how this day would play.

Face to face is easy to control the game state because players are not good and you can persuade them more easily with body language, so that's not a sign to me that you chose a line of play that is superior.

I've played this game state out many times in a different format (livechat, which this game felt similar to) and your chosen line of play has a negative expected value and relies on your ability to correctly identify the remaining PR which you did not do.

To be fair, I knew exactly what I had to do to get Amelie to vote in an area I wanted her to. It was just unfortunate that nobody knew that my alt was outed, because if she knew that was me, I don't think it'd have worked.

So don't feel bad, Amelie, I kind of played the setup specifically to get you to vote one of them.

If this is true and you had Amelie as a mark since N1 then I think the play was strong. It reminds me of a LAG player from texas hold em.

[Frogsterking]

to be fair, I trapped him with my "He's just gonna claim Seer" trick.

No you actually mis played heavily.

I clearly misplayed here

it was only a misplay on a mechanical level, not a sociological level.

I also knew I had the support of Klick who trusts me as a player, and then you spewed yourself scum afterwards by speaking.

I can +1 on the mechanical misplay vs sociological, like I said, if indeed you had Amelie as a mark from N1 then it reminds me of a LAG move.

As for the second comment about my play I can only agree with if by scum spewing you meant to say obv towning.

[Momrangal]

You... Did spew yourself as scum d2 frog

[Flavor Leaf]

you definitely did not obv town to Amelie, and you allowed momentum to turn on you.

You went super attack mode without having reasons.

Your gut read on me was correct, you knew I was scum.

Doesn't matter if you can't get me faded.

[Frogsterking]

You... Did spew yourself as scum d2 frog

Nah.

[Momrangal]

Nobody saw you as town here, I even guessed that it was you and kop

[Flavor Leaf]

Face to face is easy to control the game state because players are not good and you can persuade them more easily with body language, so that's not a sign to me that you chose a line of play that is superior.

Well, this is like the third time in a few months I've won essentially the same way, so

it's not always better to do the "best play"

me making what you perceive as a mistake is why I became townier to Amelie.

I just knew how to get Amelie to vote the direction I wanted, and then I trapped you, and you came out super aggressively, something I already knew you would do, especially if I egged you on the way I did.

[Flavor Leaf]

You... Did spew yourself as scum d2 frog

Nah.

well, I almost faded a mason recently as scum too, so obv town isn't enough to protect yourself from me

[Frogsterking]

you definitely did not obv town to Amelie, and you allowed momentum to turn on you.

You went super attack mode without having reasons.

Your gut read on me was correct, you knew I was scum.

Doesn't matter if you can't get me faded.

Face to face is easy to control the game state because players are not good and you can persuade them more easily with body language, so that's not a sign to me that you chose a line of play that is superior.

Well, this is like the third time in a few months I've won essentially the same way, so

it's not always better to do the "best play"

me making what you perceive as a mistake is why I became townier to Amelie.

I just knew how to get Amelie to vote the direction I wanted, and then I trapped you, and you came out super aggressively, something I already knew you would do, especially if I egged you on the way I did.

Don't take it personally, but considering you consider yourself a master manipulator, there's only so far I'm willing to believe what you say. I believe master manipulators start by manipulating themselves first and foremost. If it makes you feel any better, I did take something away from the game, about controlling tempo, and as long as you genuinely had Amelie as a mark, I believe you made a good choice going against the mechanics. Only you can know if you really had Amelie as a mark, or if it's necessary for you to believe that in order to maintain your ability to manipulate.

[Boonskiies]

I mean, once scum PT opens up, you can see it for yourself to believe that I expected Amelie to vote one of you or kop specifically.

This would not have been a victory had I not done that.

Just because the play itself doesn't make "mechanical sense" is why it's not pushed as scum behavior.

Most scummy things are not actually scummy, and they're town doing bad things.

[Boonskiies]

Mafia has more to do with it than straight mechanics, and I'll take a sociological play over a mechanical one any day.

That's how I've gotten out of cop guilties before even.

[Boonskiies]

My push on Kop nullified his guilty (which I also called out in PT that I would have been the guilty) and I took the leap that Amelie wasn't the Seer, meaning I was setting a Kop/Frogster scum team setup immediately, and even the dead player thought it was you, so obviously did something right,