Micro 1006 | Hydrogen-9121 | The End

[RationalMadman]

Mafia is a game of much more strategy than luck, people just think it's luck because it takes a LOT of experience and maybe studying some psychology, to refine the 'skill' element.

[RationalMadman]

It's safer and better to practise in games like this (Micro, casual game) so you're doing the right thing.

[Agent of Chaos]

RM, you were obv town.
I would literally have to get Vander and Hydra TERMINATED.

[Agent of Chaos]

You study psychology?

[xijinping]

oh LOL I see it's no longer needed that we catch up. GG

Sorry to everyone about our lack of activity this game, glad we ended up getting the scum though so quickly, gj to those who were more involved and figured it out. I caught Robert for the right reasons D1 I guess but Enchant said that thing and I got all sussed out. Did some skimming but not sure who I would've voted today

My new friend honestly kind of struggled to keep up this game D1 and I'm a little bummed that he didn't get to immerse in this game, and my apathy also just kind of came all at once as I got busy. Maybe we'll queue another game maybe not, I'll ask him and see if he wants to try again, I think this would've been a good chance given how chill this game was

@Robert

why did you claim VT? Did you know Enchant was the Seer or something and wanted to get towncred? Regardless I almost believed you at the end, so props for that at least

[xijinping]

oh that was -Xi if it's not obvious. Not that it matters. I should really have made him sign instead

[xijinping]

Which sane person claims a role when they are RVS wagon?
I didn't tell him to claim anything, because I didn't except that he would claim.
Bad play.

Hey, wagon is building on you. You should do something about it.

Proceeds to claim.

LOL

[xijinping]

looks like RationalMadman played really well this time to pin down both scum like that. and

@Sirius

thanks for the mod. Maybe I'll tell you my identity, we've played before

[RationalMadman]

Gg

[Sirius9121]

uhhhhhh
uhhhhhhhhhh

Official Vote Count

Agent of Chaos

(3): RationalMadman, Vanderscamp, Not_Mafia

Not Voting

(2): Agent of Chaos, xijinping

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to boom.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-05-04 22:23:00)

[Sirius9121]

Agent of Chaos was eliminated. They were a

Townie.

Night 2 ends in (expired on 2021-05-03 08:35:00) OR if everyone subscribes to Fast Night Service.

[Sirius9121]

RationalMadman was eliminated. They were a Townie.

Day 3 ends in (expired on 2021-05-10 09:39:00)

[Vanderscamp]

Eliminating AoC --> Vanderscamp wins, I'm pretty sure

I'm guessing this was the reason for that kill?

VOTE: Xi

[Vanderscamp]

I guess I'll talk about the Robert kill, specifically the interactions Xi and I had around it, since I think that is probably going to be the most helpful in terms of solving the game.


Towards the start of the thread, r_m pushes pretty hard on Robert.
I generally don't think the case against r_m is particularly good so I'm more interested in flipping AoC who was being aggressively useless.

AoC puts Robert at E-1, Robert claims VT, AoC instantly unvotes.

I make this post and a couple others which was generally my stance.

May by a bluff.
Though, for mafia it would be better to just fake reads!
Not sure about werewolves.

RM, I think Robert is not towny and I wouldn't lose sleep over a flip there, but I think it says a lot that you are ignoring stuff like this from AoC that is, at best, pointless trolling, but your response to a VT claim from Robert is that it is a "clever bluff" and not believable.
I don't think AoC is towny and I really don't understand why you do.

Xi is almost completely absent.

[Vanderscamp]

Robert makes this post and I instantly vote him.

The scum (aka RationalMadman) has taken total control of the narrative in this game. It's easy to go after novice/low-activity players during the day, and night kill the more active townies. The scum isn't going after Not_Mafia because that player won't respond back at all, so there is no reward persecuting them - but they are seemingly worried about Not_Mafia hammering, though.

He posts a lot, some of it is game strategy, calling active players town, and less active players scum - for some reason keeps saying AoC is trolling? Most of his posts are complete garbage filler, but hey. That's how he keeps tight control of the narrative.

VOTE: RationalMadman

Never mind, VOTE: Robert M Hunter
I'm on the bandwagon

[Vanderscamp]

I am very curious why you only mention this read and stuff now. You literally were E-1 and all you said is you're vanilla town, do whatever. You didn't even say I was scum or vote me, you're only doing it right now. If you think as scum I'd oush this hard for you even after you outed, you are wrong but I don't think you're just wrong I think you are scum.

I agree with this, this is why I voted him because it does seem manufactured.
I'm not sure why you unvoted him.

I say this about Robert, questioning R_M's unvote of him.

[Vanderscamp]

Here's what Xi has to say (in reverse order, sorry)

RM, why do you keep talking about Robert's flip as if it's for sure going to happen, call Vander scum, and not have a vote down?

-Xi

To be clear either way around, I don't townread Vander. That said, the one thing thatakese feel Vander isn't a partner with Robert is how little Robert cares. It imolies Robert's partner doesn't care about this game either.

Can you explain how you get to the conclusion that if scum!Robert doesn't care, his partner doesn't care either? Who would you consider "doesn't care about this game"?

-Xi

Okay I can read a 5 post ISO at least.

Robert, the problem I have with you is that your self-proclaimed noobishness starkly contrasts with your sudden jarring confidence on RM being scum. Can you explain why you're so confident in this read? It looks like a blanket narrative accusation from you without much substance.

-Xi

Funnily enough R_M gives an accurate assessment on who Robert is partnered with and Xi discredits it.

[Vanderscamp]

I think vander is scum in this game potentially (not just potentially but you get the point).

Assuming they/them pronouns here.

Vander seems to be asking questions to players and voting the path of least resistance without having a hard stance of their own from what I see.

There is something off about it because I sense that Vander is capable of a lot more aggression in cross-examining than what's been done so far. On the other hand, Vander is one of the only players actively doing it so I not sure how to justify a vote but I'm outing this vibe/gut read here and now.

I do think they easily are scum WITH Robert. That team isn't unthinkable. Vander could be throwing Robert under the bus here out of self-preservation as they see a bad long-term outcome of teaming with Robert. Actually, Vander could be with anyone at all because of how neutral the core stance is. I ask Vander to make clear the reads they have and reasoning behind each. Nullreads are fine but I'm unclear who Vander townreads, only clear that voting Robert through to elimination is supported.

I use male pronouns.

I think my reads have been extremely clear this game!
I've outlined them all already.

I thought Robert was null leaning scummy until his bigger post where he goes after you, and I think that post was very scummy and probably the scummiest thing anyone has posted this game.

I think you are towny because of how hard you seem to be trying.

I think your town reads on Enchant and AoC are poor, particularly the AoC one.
Despite being consistently present, I think AoC has contributed literally nothing of value the entire game, and the only thing I've liked from that seat was the dumbtell about day chat for scum.
I think it's very easy for scum to post what Enchant has said so far, but given that he's basically the only person other than you or me who is trying to provide actual content he is basically off the table for me until he starts to sound actively scummy.

Everyone else is null.

I don't think it's particularly useful to cross examine or have strong reads this early in the game, unless something is super obvious, because it just leads to tunneling.
For example I think what you did with Robert's initial entrance posts is in general pretty counterproductive (even though I think in this case you are town and were correct with your read) because it makes it much harder to objectively evaluate people. As an example of this, Robert claimed VT and you had this claim as an unbelievable claim and a clever bluff, which are both things that are essentially never true about a VT claim in a situation like this.



I'll accept not being town read by you, or even scum read, that's fine; I think I'm definitely within my scum range this game.
What I won't accept is me being one of the only seats that is trying so far, with one of us posting shit like "I think this makes sense coming from wolves, but not necessarily mafia" or whatever the fuck it was, and you deciding you would rather flip my seat over either AoC or the scummy nulls.

I have this to say about the game in general, I call Robert's post I voted him for the scummiest thing anyone has said all game.

[Vanderscamp]

To be clear either way around, I don't townread Vander. That said, the one thing thatakese feel Vander isn't a partner with Robert is how little Robert cares. It imolies Robert's partner doesn't care about this game either.

So Robert's flip is indeed important to structure any day 2 reads and is safest to still eliminate, I will revote after Robert outs reads or when time demands

You just decided I'd be the easiest townie to slay on my second post and you've been piling on nonstop ever since, hoping to bamboozle the other players into submitting to your will, like the good little scum that you are.

This is extremely scummy imo

I very much do not believe this is genuine from Robert, I think he is just retaliating.

Ignore the first quote, it was a misquote.
I push harder and harder against Robert

[Vanderscamp]

I don't understand what's happening this game if you are town, not_mafia.

You came into this game with energy and a self vote and since your first post your energy has been zero.

Why are you even playing this game if you have no interest in hunting at all?
Why is this not you as scum seeing that your partner Robert is likely going down and losing all motivation?

I think we are in quite a good spot because I am quite confident Robert is mafia and we'll be able to kill him without needing any town to claim.

More

[Vanderscamp]

Why wouldn't scum be incentivized to try to run up other people once they see a VT claim from Robert in the hopes of outing PRs?

The third question is very pertinent. AoC didn't and hasn't even slightly moved on from unvoting Robert to pushing for another lynch in this day phase. Fae hasn't even threatened it. This is extremely important in understanding what the 'nature of' the unvote was, simply to give Robert breathing room, let the day drag on and let us perhaps get reads on the 2 lurkers.

As scum, AoC would probably (if Robert isn't his partner) sit there giggling and wait for someone to hammer. At the very least, there's no real reason for AoC to suddenly not just unvote but take the game seriously after that point. I read the change in attitude as very towny if Robert is town. If Robert is scum, AoC could have acted in all those ways as the partner.

We might have different opinions on what counts as taking the game seriously, but if this (AOC's next post):

May by a bluff.
Though, for mafia it would be better to just fake reads!
Not sure about werewolves.

was taking the game seriously, then I think that's extremely scummy.

I think the reasoning for AoC to do it if Robert is town is to want to try and get other claims, without feeling the need to actually push on people. If AoC started pushing people and trying to run them up, that would definitely be an increase in seriousness, right? I'm not sure why you think the scum line from AoC in that spot involves an increase in seriousness, but that the increase in seriousness from AoC here is an indication of towniness.

I don't care too much about this though because I'm much more confident on Robert being scum than AoC.

I'm saying I'm much more confident on Robert being scum than AoC now.
If I'm scum here I'm pretty much completely removing my ability to not vote anyone outside of Robert.

[Vanderscamp]

*to vote

[Vanderscamp]

To be clear either way around, I don't townread Vander. That said, the one thing thatakese feel Vander isn't a partner with Robert is how little Robert cares. It imolies Robert's partner doesn't care about this game either.

So Robert's flip is indeed important to structure any day 2 reads and is safest to still eliminate, I will revote after Robert outs reads or when time demands

You just decided I'd be the easiest townie to slay on my second post and you've been piling on nonstop ever since, hoping to bamboozle the other players into submitting to your will, like the good little scum that you are.

This is extremely scummy imo

I very much do not believe this is genuine from Robert, I think he is just retaliating.

I'm not retaliation, I have a job with overtime shifts, I don't have the time and energy to fight off a scum with 98 posts that totally dominates the game and decided to call every word I type scummy, he's been pushing me down from the game's onset and keeps me down by kicking me in the nads at every opportunity. He's not a townie honestly trying to find my alignment, he's known my alignment from the start and he could smell I'm an easy mark.

What I find very suspicious from you is your sudden extreme confidence that he is scum.
Why can't he be town and wrong?

More

[Vanderscamp]

Official Vote Count

Robert M Hunter

(2): Enchant, Vanderscamp

RationalMadman

(1): Robert M Hunter

Not_Mafia

(1): Not_Mafia

Not Voting

(3): Agent of Chaos, xijinping, RationalMadman

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to throw someone into a pit.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-04-29 22:06:00)

And btw, this was the tally for a fairly long time at this point.

Robert was on two votes, including mine.
I don't think Robert was clearly going to flip even at this stage without me continually saying that I wanted to vote exclusively Robert with no other claims.

[Vanderscamp]

VOTE: Robert M Hunter

Okay, like the lack of re-evaluation is exactly the kind of naked aggression I would expect from scum here. It’s probably just a low effort AtE and it’s weird how you’re doing all these twists and turns to suddenly defend him for no good reason

-Xi

Xi finally comes in with a vote on Robert shortly after this