In post 1567, Hopkirk wrote:If Vanders dies - Emily argues why didn't Loki die when they hard TR hop?
If Loki dies - Emily argues why didn't Vanders die when they hard SR her
Like it's the same logic for either kill. Either one she's going into the lylo knowing the wincon involves changing someone's mind. I was intentionally understating my lockdown of you in the thread to increase the chance someone wouldn't kill you earlier (so it looks more like I could be swayed into voting you), for all the good it did since apparently your meta TR on me being outside my range seems to have disappeared
Why wouldn’t I be killed? Do you think Vanders was more obvtown than me? And you didn’t even locktown me right away. What you actually did say was that you thought it was Emily. You only locktowned me when it was beyond obvious I was town.
So once again, you contradict yourself. Based off of this post, you shouldn’t have said that you think it’s Emily but you’re like over 80% sure or whatever,
There’s actually nothing wrong with what you actually did say other than it’s a clear contradiction. According to you, you downplayed your lock tr of me to save me from the nk, so why did you enter elo saying that you “think” it’s Emily if you had actually locktowned me at that point?
In post 1571, Hopkirk wrote:The Rush would be
- to prevent other hammers (Mo was an erratic player, Mo might have)
- she genuinely didn't think the hammer looked bad
- she has to say something there. She doesn't need to hammer, but a hammer looks better than saying 'i support the wagon but not voting yet' which is essentially an intent that she can't take back
Either of those
Wouldn’t a Mo hammer be actually great for scum!Emily? Then they kill Vanders. Then she could possibly push monkey along with Flow right?
Then she wins. Why does scum!Emily makes things a gazillion times harder for herself by bussing, when she could very easily convince me to lim monkey who I wasn’t necessarily tr. Only reason he died was because Flow flip mech confitowned him.
In post 1573, Hopkirk wrote:And now I have plans for the day and should probably start prepping. Might be online in the evening but unlikely.
I wonder if I'd ever care enough as scum to skip breakfast to argue here against something that isn't changing. that's a pretty good question
Again, this is just wifom. If I’m last scum here, do you seriously think I wouldn’t care and just give up? Obviously not, so why would you think this is at all persuasive?
It I was last scum I think yeah I would just cave and give up because I wouldn't be able to justify the time spent on trying to move a 90% chance of losing down to 80%
I locktowned you right away in the lylo, I didn't vote immediately because if you voted firs then I can just hammer instead of you doing what you're doing now. you know that I locktowned you a while ago in the QT. Turns out I can read you but not vice versa I guess
You would be killed by Emily if she thinks you are less likely to rethink than she thinks Vanders would be. That's the sum of the decision for here there imo
In post 1555, Hopkirk wrote:What logic am I 'dismissing' that doesn't also include 'Hop is scum'. I am disagreeing with your conclusions and the reasons for them and to keep saying it in vague terms. Lay out a list of things I'm dismissing if you want direct responses to a list
I think I’ve made all of that extremely clear. Emily Flow hammer, you’re interpreting Pooky’s posting as “self pity”. Pooky’s anti-bussing meta when you clearly valued Vanders’. And most recently you claiming you downplayed your locktown read on me to save me from the nk yet you we’re definitely not lock tr at the beginning of this day. You’re saying my Pooky read is based off of AtE when you are the one who keeps trying to persuade with it.
In post 1578, Hopkirk wrote:It I was last scum I think yeah I would just cave and give up because I wouldn't be able to justify the time spent on trying to move a 90% chance of losing down to 80%
I locktowned you right away in the lylo
, I didn't vote immediately because if you voted firs then I can just hammer instead of you doing what you're doing now. you know that I locktowned you a while ago in the QT. Turns out I can read you but not vice versa I guess
You would be killed by Emily if she thinks you are less likely to rethink than she thinks Vanders would be. That's the sum of the decision for here there imo
retired
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
In post 1574, Hopkirk wrote:I don't think the close to 100 posts I made last night and today is something I could possibly do as scum. Like it's more effort than I put into the whole game of Hectic Vs Nancy and WSB combined. I'm way outside of my scumrange right now
When did this game even happen? Do you mean FL vs Hectic or Nancy vs Titus?
Well, I’m sure Pooky can easily make that exact same argument. How isn’t he outside of his scumrange?
In post 1568, Hopkirk wrote:I hard pushed clidd for intentionally bad reasons btw. I wanted you to conclude that was me fake pushing a partner rather than genuinely trying to get clues exiled which is why I was holding back. I couldn't push him for good reasons because then the associative s make him far more town on my flip.
I think Fey was killed in part to frame him, since she wrongly sr him and it looked like you were trying to get the wagon switched from you to him.
In post 1557, Hopkirk wrote:I've explained why Emily's hammer is an an attempt to get TR and not a genuine one so many times
- because scum!Emily looks a lot worse by not bussing to the extent she's going to be exiled
- it was rushed in a way that came off as weird. me/hem/Vanders all agree with this
Yes and I explained why I disagree also many times. Had Flow actually flipped town, I’d probably agree with this but he didn’t and monkey didn’t have an opportunity to weigh in on that post-Flow flip, so his opinion on that isn’t useful.
I assume you mean the second point here.
Reread HEm, they're saying it's weird regardless of the flip.
Vanders is saying the same.
Andante was SRing Robert D1 so town can clearly dislike Robert
You've been saying for ages how weird it is youve been left alive when every night a slot that's wanted to push Emily the next day has been the one to die
Andante’s final read was a Mo/Flow team not Robert, Monkey’s read on Emily was based off his wrongly tr Flow and if he was sussing on anyone other than me it was Mo not Emily. It was Vanders not monkey who thought the hammer suspicious irrespective of flip not monkey.
Monkey died because Flow scumflip confitowned them. According to your reasoning, Vanders should have died instead.
If I wanted I could compile all of the posts disputing this but I have my excellent long term memory, so I don’t need to.
Every argument you make about Emily is a confibiased perspective and if you were in my position, I think you’d have a far more nuanced take of it.
In post 1581, Loki Dokie wrote:Yeah you wanted me to vote Emily so you could hammer her. I think that much is beyond obvious.
And if you actually did in fact locktown me at the start/or prior to elo, you would have voted her not wait for me to vote her.
See you’re not making sense. I actually did seriously consider voting Emily because I hard tr you and probably would have had we not been in elo. Thankfully I instead I decided to hardpush her and her reaction caused me to doubt that read.
Why do you wait for me to vote Emily if you locktowned me? If you actually locktowned me, which 1286 clearly says otherwise, then that has to mean that you lockscummed Emily? So why wait for me to vote her?
You don’t even realize that what you’re saying makes no sense.
this is something that comes from a town mindset; 487 and 488
and in post 36; talking bout style however, they are playing the same style.
I don't see anything in these five posts that reads as especially genuine.
Could you elaborate please?
okay in post 795, and 796, they think Loki, Hopkirk, and Andante are their townreads... i dont think scum thinks like that. especially considering the early interactions taht happened with loki maybe? i forgot who but it was someone...and in 796. they followed up wit saying they are townreading more than bugs -- prehaps due to actual effort from town then when andante asks to hammer bugs, flow refuses saying only if they sr them after they are done catching up. i think scum would have taken advantage of that and just hammered here nd not to slow roll.
in post 487 same thing. Flow gives insight on a new idea that never no one has brought up and explains to andante that it could just be that we are neighbors as well.
post 488 retracts that theory because they see thats not what my intent was. i think thats just town thinking in an active mindset.
in post 36, they talk about something that was referring to the interaction that resulted into soemone thinking they were changing styles this game... flow responds by saying they know someone who changes their playstyle. however they are playing the exact same way they did when they flipped town in their previous games.
There are no real details given with the townreads in 795/796 - it's a conclusion without the thought process to get there. I'm not sure how you can conclusively townread that?
In post 1218, Emily wrote:Van the idea that you don't trust me is quite hurtful.
I hope this works. My first vote guys!
Wish me luck!
VOTE: Flow Trap
Actually it only looks like an insta hammer. Emily has several posts leading up to this and an almost three hr time span between them. Her progression on Flow makes sense. But that wasn’t that clear until my reread.
this is something that comes from a town mindset; 487 and 488
and in post 36; talking bout style however, they are playing the same style.
I don't see anything in these five posts that reads as especially genuine.
Could you elaborate please?
okay in post 795, and 796, they think Loki, Hopkirk, and Andante are their townreads... i dont think scum thinks like that. especially considering the early interactions taht happened with loki maybe? i forgot who but it was someone...and in 796. they followed up wit saying they are townreading more than bugs -- prehaps due to actual effort from town then when andante asks to hammer bugs, flow refuses saying only if they sr them after they are done catching up. i think scum would have taken advantage of that and just hammered here nd not to slow roll.
in post 487 same thing. Flow gives insight on a new idea that never no one has brought up and explains to andante that it could just be that we are neighbors as well.
post 488 retracts that theory because they see thats not what my intent was. i think thats just town thinking in an active mindset.
in post 36, they talk about something that was referring to the interaction that resulted into soemone thinking they were changing styles this game... flow responds by saying they know someone who changes their playstyle. however they are playing the exact same way they did when they flipped town in their previous games.
There are no real details given with the townreads in 795/796 - it's a conclusion without the thought process to get there. I'm not sure how you can conclusively townread that?
In post 1218, Emily wrote:Van the idea that you don't trust me is quite hurtful.
In post 1547, Loki Dokie wrote:He is extremely good at that and why wouldn’t he try that with Flow who was in a much stronger position at the time he hammered him than SS was in PYP.
this is true.
also I didn't even have to convince anyone at that point in time.
Grandpa was TRing Flow.
Monkey was on Flow's side.
Flow wouldn't vote himself.
If I side with flow that's 4 votes already.
It would be very easy for me to flip the elimination into someone else and the game is a cake-walk at early lylo with 2 townies siding wrong.
I have no incentive to push it to this type of endgame where there's a strong chance I lose.
And now he’s rewriting history - claiming he locktowned me while waiting for me to vote first. When he only locktowned me when it was beyond obvious. I think he was just hoping I’d vote you first and that he’d done enough to pocket me that he wouldn’t have to campaign to me but everything you’re saying rings true to me and very little of what he’s saying makes sense. So it sucks because I feel I’m literally in a position where I have to choose between literal gamethrowing and him being pissed at me.
I obviously don’t want him to be upset with me but I think anyone looking at this situation objectively would likely come to the exact same conclusion and he clearly contradicted himself with that locktown thing. I’m not even sure what the point of it was. Who wasn’t tr me after Flow flip? No one, so how is he not expressing a locktown read saving me from the nk?
In post 1578, Hopkirk wrote:It I was last scum I think yeah I would just cave and give up because I wouldn't be able to justify the time spent on trying to move a 90% chance of losing down to 80%
I locktowned you right away in the lylo
, I didn't vote immediately because if you voted firs then I can just hammer instead of you doing what you're doing now. you know that I locktowned you a while ago in the QT. Turns out I can read you but not vice versa I guess
You would be killed by Emily if she thinks you are less likely to rethink than she thinks Vanders would be. That's the sum of the decision for here there imo
In post 1578, Hopkirk wrote:It I was last scum I think yeah I would just cave and give up because I wouldn't be able to justify the time spent on trying to move a 90% chance of losing down to 80%
I locktowned you right away in the lylo,
I didn't vote immediately because if you voted firs then I can just hammer instead of you doing what you're doing now
. you know that I locktowned you a while ago in the QT. Turns out I can read you but not vice versa I guess
You would be killed by Emily if she thinks you are less likely to rethink than she thinks Vanders would be. That's the sum of the decision for here there imo
And this: If he locktowned me, then by very definition, he lockscummed you and if he lockscummed you, there is absolutely no reason for him to wait for me to vote you.
In post 1594, Emily wrote:like it makes sense for him to be upset to lose this way as scum
he played an excellent game.
Mostly but pocketing isn’t the whole enchilada, you need to have decent miselimable slots and you weren’t even if I didn’t know who you were. You can play an excellent scumgame, pocket brilliantly but if you’re in elo with a slot that’s not easily mislimable you won’t win. He needed bugs or Mo in elo and Flow being elimed forced him to kill monkey who was another potentially miselimable slot had Flow not died. Vanders died because he didn’t have the hard tr on Hopkirk that I did and you would definitely know from 960 and Skittter’s 180 on tw that killing me was better for you than killing Vanders because you had every reason to have considered me a lost cause.
Do you mean FL vs Hectic or Nancy vs Titus? 
