Micro 1038: Brass and Shrapnel - Game Over

[Little Green Wheels]

Votecount 1.3

Little Green Wheels (4) - imaginality, CheekyTeeky, Eden'sFlame, UNOwen
UNOwen (2) - Flea the Magician, Pavowski
Pavowski (1) - The Onion

Not voting (2) - zefiend, Little Green Wheels

(expired on 2022-01-04 08:28:00) remain until day end

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority.

CheekyTeeky is V/LA until New Year's Day.

I don't know that my wagon was all town, but it's weird no one hammered.

[Pavowski]

Votecount 1.3

Little Green Wheels (4) - imaginality, CheekyTeeky, Eden'sFlame, UNOwen
UNOwen (2) - Flea the Magician, Pavowski
Pavowski (1) - The Onion

Not voting (2) - zefiend, Little Green Wheels

(expired on 2022-01-04 08:28:00) remain until day end

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority.

CheekyTeeky is V/LA until New Year's Day.

I don't know that my wagon was all town, but it's weird no one hammered.

I would've considered anybody hammering your wagon at that point a scumclaim. I agree, though, your wagon was probably not all town.

[EdensFlame]

Should we massclaim at this point?
I'm not sure how I feel about a 1f1 with me and CheekyTeeky ATM

[CheekyTeeky]

And suddenly there's a gladiate between imaginality and myself. I just clicked that noone hammering LGW might actually indicate they're town and scum are uneasy hammering that (assuming at least one scum off wagon)

I mean, here you were assuming at least one scum off a hammerable wagon.

I think both scum were on imaginality before there was a chance they would have to be hammer. There's an outside chance of onion but not feeling it. It's different to your wagon which was the first wagon with a few reads supporting it, the imaginality wagon was a clear scum counter to zefiend so I assume both scum were on before hammer position.

[ɀefiend]

I'm gonna re-read the whole game since it's not long, and we can definitely use the Day for discussion, but everybody should know

We are VOTE: No Lynch today.

It's 4v2 which is MYLO.

Scum have to avoid hitting a bomb to progress the game. Vigs should all NK, obviously.

If scum NK, then we continue NL and Town wins by deadlock.

If scum miss a bomb then we're in LYLO, which is the only other eventuality besides an instant Town loss.

[CheekyTeeky]

A bomb already died. I'd rather die on my own sword than leave the game up to chance and deadlock.
VOTE: zefiend

[Pavowski]

I'm gonna re-read the whole game since it's not long, and we can definitely use the Day for discussion, but everybody should know

We are VOTE: No Lynch today.

It's 4v2 which is MYLO.

Scum have to avoid hitting a bomb to progress the game. Vigs should all NK, obviously.

If scum NK, then we continue NL and Town wins by deadlock.

If scum miss a bomb then we're in LYLO, which is the only other eventuality besides an instant Town loss.

This post is all over the place.

1 - you seem to assume we have more bombs, but we may not have any more bombs
2 - scum NK, assuming no bomb shot, puts us in elo yes but
2.1 - you want vigs to fire, the possible outcomes of which you don't discuss. They could hit scum (good!) Or they could hit town (bad!) Or they could hit a bomb (super bad!)

No Lim is on the table in 4v2, yes, but it shouldn't be a foregone conclusion.

(Also, dude, the L-word is not the preferred nomenclature anymore. Lim or elimination, please.)

[ɀefiend]

A bomb already died. I'd rather die on my own sword than leave the game up to chance and deadlock.
VOTE: zefiend

A deadlock is a town win. If mafia never kill, then "all threats to the town" have been eliminated.

[ɀefiend]

I'm gonna re-read the whole game since it's not long, and we can definitely use the Day for discussion, but everybody should know

We are VOTE: No Lynch today.

It's 4v2 which is MYLO.

Scum have to avoid hitting a bomb to progress the game. Vigs should all NK, obviously.

If scum NK, then we continue NL and Town wins by deadlock.

If scum miss a bomb then we're in LYLO, which is the only other eventuality besides an instant Town loss.

This post is all over the place.

1 - you seem to assume we have more bombs, but we may not have any more bombs
2 - scum NK, assuming no bomb shot, puts us in elo yes but
2.1 - you want vigs to fire, the possible outcomes of which you don't discuss. They could hit scum (good!) Or they could hit town (bad!) Or they could hit a bomb (super bad!)

No Lim is on the table in 4v2, yes, but it shouldn't be a foregone conclusion.

(Also, dude, the L-word is not the preferred nomenclature anymore. Lim or elimination, please.)

Ok forgive me, I haven't played on this site in like 3 or 4 years.

In my post "NK" = No-Kill. Perhaps this is why Cheeky is confused and voting me, thinking I just want to leave the entire game up to shooting each other at night. Not the case.

I already stated in an earlier post that Vigs should not ever shoot except in a shoot or lose situation, so with some digging you could infer that telling Vigs to "NK" meant No-Kill, not "night-kill." I understand NK can mean "night-kill" when talking about scum.

Anyway, besides all that, yes -- No Lim is optimal. It is not a foregone conclusion, but only in exceptional cases where a mass claim happens and the game can be solved, or something similarly dramatic.

Mechanically, No Lim is the best action here and I would rather "die on my own sword" than play counter-productively.

[Pavowski]

NK generally stands for night kill. No-kill, being rarer, needs to be spelled out.

But that reveals another weirdity in your analysis if no-kill is what you meant.

Why would scum not kill? As we discussed d1, they can (and probably did) doc whoever took the night kill to nullify the risk of hitting a bomb. We should assume they will continue to do this. There are only rare situations where not killing is a smart play for scum and I am not sure it could ever be the case in this setup.

Meanwhile your shift from "not knowing how to engage with this game" yesterday to trying to drive the proceedings today is ... just weird

[The Onion]

A bomb already died. I'd rather die on my own sword than leave the game up to chance and deadlock.
VOTE: zefiend

[ɀefiend]

NK generally stands for night kill. No-kill, being rarer, needs to be spelled out.

But that reveals another weirdity in your analysis if no-kill is what you meant.

Why would scum not kill? As we discussed d1, they can (and probably did) doc whoever took the night kill to nullify the risk of hitting a bomb. We should assume they will continue to do this. There are only rare situations where not killing is a smart play for scum and I am not sure it could ever be the case in this setup.

Meanwhile your shift from "not knowing how to engage with this game" yesterday to trying to drive the proceedings today is ... just weird

Scum aren't guaranteed to have Doc, they could have RB.

Consider the following scenario (which is impossible in this game now, but for theory's sake):

Day 1 a Vig is limmed; Night 2, two Vigs are shot. 4 Bombs survive. Day 2 is MELO. Town can NL forever. If scum don't have Doc, they have mechanistically lost but don't know it yet. So they no-kill forever.

I don't know the current scenario in the game right now EXCEPT for the fact that it's MELO, so unless the state of information changes, NL is optimal play.

YesterDay was stale and had no direction, today is pretty straightforward what we have to do, which makes engaging easier for me. If I get flamed/dodged for playing this way in a ""fun"" setup, so be it.

[Little Green Wheels]

Scum aren't guaranteed to have Doc, they could have RB.

I'm not sure whether you're dumbtelling or just not reading the game. You made the same error in 54 but we did have a whole conversation about this after that.

[ɀefiend]

Screw it I'll just stop talking for a while.

[Pavowski]

Screw it I'll just stop talking for a while.

Please don't stop talking, but reading players will be more helpful for those trying to sort you than your reading the setup.

You keep introducing mech talk and it derails us from actually finding scum

@SirCakez

- is this correct:

The setup isn't that mafia get either a factional roleblock OR doc, it's that they get a factional roleblock AND doc but can only choose to use one each night.

?

Yes this is correct

So that's settled

[Pavowski]

Right now I think scum is in [Onion, Eden, Zefiend] with an outside shot at Teeky

Onion please post a vote or something I can actually read

Eden, I still want to hear your thoughts on Zefiend

LGW, of the lurkers who's scummiest?

Teeky no questions, you've actually voiced a solve (and you apparently don't do interrogations anyway?)

[SirCakez]

Votecount 2.1

No Elim (1) - Zefiend
Zefiend (1) - CheekyTeeky

Not voting (4) - Pavowski, The Onion, Little Green Wheels, Eden'sFlame

(expired on 2022-01-20 10:32:00) remain until day end

With 6 players alive, it takes 4 to reach a majority.

[CheekyTeeky]

UNVOTE:
Is it a kind of slip that zefiend doesn't get the mechanic still?

[Pavowski]

Don't even know what to call it at this point, but I'd like his people reads more than his mech talk

[The Onion]

zefiend is town.
I thought Cheeky was wrong town but maybe she's scum.

[The Onion]

Pav was scummy day1 but has been solving today so town.
VOTE: Eden

[EdensFlame]

Pav = town
Zefiend= prob town
Eden= town


Of Cheeky/LGW/ Onion I like cheeky the worst tbh
VOTE: CheekyTeeky

[Pavowski]

Pav = town
Zefiend= prob town
Eden= town


Of Cheeky/LGW/ Onion I like cheeky the worst tbh
VOTE: CheekyTeeky

Bold of you to put yourself in your own readslist

[Pavowski]

Pav = town
Zefiend= prob town
Eden= town


Of Cheeky/LGW/ Onion I like cheeky the worst tbh
VOTE: CheekyTeeky

You were FOSing Zefiend at start of day but he's probtown now. What changed?

[CheekyTeeky]

VOTE: Eden