Micro 1041: Geriatric F11 [Postgame]

[joqiza]

Andante is sorta townie.

[joqiza]

The real and sad tea is that Dwlee probably doesn't make that post if he's partnered with Andante. Which is devastating because I thought everyone else who talked besides those two has been at least a little bit towny and I was starting to get hopeful.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Andante is sorta townie.

Yeah I'm curious where that read comes from.

[Andante]

This on the other hand is bad

no it's not

Oh well if you say so.

Everyone, Esther has clarified that her post isn't bad, nothing to see here.

"Bad" is a loose term, anyway. What did you even mean when you called her post bad? Did you mean it was a post a wolf was more likely to make? Did you mean it was anti-town or illogical? Did you simply disagree with what it was saying? Those are all valid interpretations and even though I assume it's the first I can't actually be sure.

You could be calling her post bad and she could be denying it and you might even both agree with each other but you have different definitions.

I've used "bad" as casual shorthand myself so I'm not trying to act superior. I've just given it some thought and maybe instead of calling things "bad" (or, on that subject, using the impossibly vague and somewhat offensive "gross") we could make it a habit to explain what we mean in precise terms.

This post is bad too. It's obvious in the context of voting her for it that I mean it's scummy, writing three paragraphs about how it's potentially ambiguous is just a way to do busywork.

Esther's post was bad because "andante's kinda idk flashed up" is a BS reason not to like it. It would be fine at least as RVS posts go if it were just "andante wagon is already E-1" or even just "I like this wagon more" with no explanation. Actually the 34-35 vote jump reads +town for me though, it's a bit more extra credit work than I expect from scum who would probably just say in 35 something like "actually third on both but still" rather than change their vote based on it. Looks like Three and Roadkill saw the same thing as I did from 41 and 45, which makes me feel pretty good about them too.

Going against the grain on Dwlee here, I don't think they're hard definite town or anything like that but 38 seems like a difficult post for scum to make since it basically says "as town I'm likely to do [the opposite of what I'm doing here]"

That leaves {Wh4t, joqiza, Sleepless Assassin, Andante}. Of these I think I'll

VOTE: joqiza

because 39 rubbed me the wrong way and his other posts (23, 27, 40) similarly look like busywork. Also if I squint 19 sort of seems like a misrep because it demands citations of something (town lolhammering

in RVS

specifically) that Andante didn't actually claim ever occurred.

I really liked this post, Umlaut is most likely town, like there are definitely joq posts I looked at like "I really don't tr joq" and him being fascinated by me here feels like maf trying to take advantage of the fact I've put 0 effort into this. it's like "Hey look!! yall may not tr me, but andante over there? looking like a real good vote!" like, just chill, it's still D1, I was busy IRL, here now... thus I'll be working on reads. Umlaut town is something I feel good about though, also have only skimmed so far.

I know yall missed me

[Andante]

This on the other hand is bad

no it's not

Oh well if you say so.

Everyone, Esther has clarified that her post isn't bad, nothing to see here.

"Bad" is a loose term, anyway. What did you even mean when you called her post bad? Did you mean it was a post a wolf was more likely to make? Did you mean it was anti-town or illogical? Did you simply disagree with what it was saying? Those are all valid interpretations and even though I assume it's the first I can't actually be sure.

You could be calling her post bad and she could be denying it and you might even both agree with each other but you have different definitions.

I've used "bad" as casual shorthand myself so I'm not trying to act superior. I've just given it some thought and maybe instead of calling things "bad" (or, on that subject, using the impossibly vague and somewhat offensive "gross") we could make it a habit to explain what we mean in precise terms.

Bad post. Bad vote.

SA, Three, mcE, roadkill town.

Phone posting so unlikely to do words proper until a bit later in the day assuming noone gets limmed prior to then.

I like these early wagons and have a bit to digest.

UNVOTE:

2/10 - doing 1 post per person I think, just gotta figure stuff out

wh4t has less content than me?? an rvs vote + this?? It genuinely doesn't feel like there's any effort even here, like "you said something was bad? bad isn't a reason to SR, what about it is bad" that's kinda the vibe I get, 4 TRs and no reason for any? "I'm on my phone so I cant" like, you could give post numbers "I liked post 21 from SA" or whatever, like, yes I know we have limited postcount, but it's not an excuse to not give reasonings for reads, - just realized joq said the "bad part" I hated, so like, are you agreeing that joq had the bad post?? either way, for this being your ONLY post of anything. this is terrible, looks like maf posting once a day to avoid prods.
If you're calling 4 people town, I want something, or an immediate followup. "I'll explain later" ok, it's a new day now and still 0 explanation.

- not a good look for wh4t (sorry for the jumbled up joq stuff in it too, didn't realize it was a different post till I hit preview, I thought it was "bad post bad vote" then calling them out for saying bad, and I was confused why you even jumped into that conversation)

[Andante]

3/10
I see nothing bad in Three's ISO, I really like it. Three is a stronger TR of mine right now, seems to really be putting forth an effort with his posts, it's advancing content, and good reasons for the reads made, like, I follow, and nod my head agreeing, I feel good about Three town. "Umlaut is very likely town. Roadkill is probably town, I mainly just like that he helped push us out of RVS so quickly." A read like that? isn't a read I see maf making super early, unless it's to be like, I know you're town, you're the stronger town, TR me"

but like " In a limited post set up, I think everyone should be expected to make their posts count. You've done it before as town when there wasn't a post restriction anyway, so there isn't any reason to believe you couldn't do it now." to say this, and have your posts actually look like you're making every one count? yeah I think it's towny, maf could be like "gotta make sure your posts count" but if their posts don't back up that mindset, it's kinda just a signal they're maf.. so Three town

[joqiza]

Why are you acting confused about why I'm "fascinated" with you when I said exactly why I read your post the way you did and what I'd like to see from you?

Also, you should combine your catch-up posts here so as not to exhaust your post count.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Post count resets in an hour anyway

[Andante]

4/10
has the highest postcount here - that alone means nothing, but I did notice that

ok, most of these posts are saying nothing, like you're all "go show me where town lolhammers" like what? do you want me to waste posts on that? waste time talking about something that barely applies here? I've had plenty of games recently, E-1's just got yeeted cause why not? and honestly, I'd probably yeet an e-1 for lols, depends, but that's besides the point.
then in 23 you go on to talk about whatever lolhammer related thing, that again, REALLY doesn't matter here

40 is asking a meaningless question, feels like you're just trying to look busy, like I don't get the point of it

60 is all "the word bad can be used so many ways!!" like, an essay over using the word bad? how is that even relevant? who cares? you're the only one caring/trying to make a thing out of it

61 yet another post telling me to link games, I'm not reading my past games, but there has definitely been speed hammers where town and maf hammered an e-1 like, a full DAY lasting a few hours? yeah.

62 "Meh whatever. I'm thinking about it more and getting after people on language use is pointless. Y'all can talk how you want to talk." wow. pointless to go after how people talk? who'd have guessed?

64 "I really need Andante to come back. My train of thought is unresolved there and I feel like everything will click once I get a read on her." Is this to just buy you time to actually put any effort into this? "Oh I don't have to try till she shows up and links games" like, I'm pretty sure Dwlee was there for turbo mode game, and you're all " they ain't partners"


so that is the entirety of joqiza's ISO, and I don't like it, most posts here, and wh4t put more effort into the actual game... wh4t gave "reads" there is NOTHING of that sort in joqiza's ISO, joqiza probably maf

[mc esther]

wh4t gave "reads" there is NOTHING of that sort in joqiza's ISO, joqiza probably maf

oh okay then

UNVOTE:
VOTE: joqiza

[Andante]

5/10

I wouldn't necessarily say mc esther's ISO is bad, but it's also not great, first half of 72 screams maf, but 2nd half I can see town saying and actually kinda like. I can see 55 being town that just realized "oh wait I was wrong in that thinking" I've definitely had arguments like that where I go "wait it's not how I thought?"

I'd like to just see more in general from mc esther, I know overall it's a lower postcount situation, but still, not a whole lot given for TRs/SRs on people, voting wh4t without saying why? like, as I mentioned earlier about someone, a simple reason is good enough. "I'm voting wh4t now cause they're not talking" ok cool, a reason is better than no reason.

overall - need more from mc, basically agreeing exactly with 70 from Three

[Three]

i should really start pausing and thinking a little before ending these posts.

I just want to see her engage with the game a bit more.

is there any, uh, "thing" (post? iso? event? idk lol) specifically that you'd like me to weigh in on? i'll give it a shot, but there's a good chance that i havent weighed in on it because i dont have thoughts.

Not anything in particular. I'd just like to see a bit more initiative in general, but this isn't particular to you in hindsight since I feel the same about wh4t and Dwlee. I assume it's wariness about hitting the daily post limit, which is fair, but no one's really gotten close to that yet.

I am typically still memeing this early idk what games you're looking at

I don't really see any memeing either. : /

Do you have any takes, preferably hot?

Three I'm starting to think you're not thinking when you say things like this

My takes are umlaut town, mc esther scum. I don't have enough experience with her to know if the vote hopping is normal from her but I think it's slightly scum-indicative.

I am thinking, though I don't really have a normal thought process I guess. Could you explain what you believe I said wrong/thoughtlessly here? I don't see it.

I agree with Umlaut town, Esther scum is more of a hot take though. She's null town for me, I just want to see her engage with the game a bit more. Is everyone else null for you?

I feel like it's kind of an unspoken rule when signing up for this game that you won't just meme around / you'll try to be serious about it. That's kinda the point of this rule set.

Andante is sorta townie.

@Roadkill

I'm not going wild because serious + post restriction + page 3. I think that should be pretty obvious. I don't think the content so far is super enlightening on a cursory glance which is pretty much the response you predicted but yea

That's fair, and I do agree with that and commented similarly earlier.

[Andante]

6/10

LOL I love the Dwlee/Roadkill stuff, it honestly feels like something I'd do as town, like, none of that feels forced, it's like a natural "haha got you both, vote your partner" whether or not it was a serious sr doesn't matter, it feels like something more likely to come from town. 31 is awesome the reasoning feels like genuine town to me, not maf stuck in a "oh no. must explain what I said. uhhh" only exception to me loving 31 is if joq and you are partners, cause it's either a town response, or maf talking to a partner, with 0 fear of being SRed for reasons. - which is awesome news that I don't tr joq. making life so much easier!

rest of your ISO is alright. it's like, if joq is town, I have no doubt you're town.if joq is maf, you could be town or maf. So I guess I'll go with town lean here, not as strong of a TR as Umlaut,Three, and mc esther might be above you, or yall are equal right now, thinking about it, I'm a tad paranoid of Sleepless/joq team, but I'm sure as there's more content, I'll be ok with a TR or I'll SR you, I need either more from you, or just need to let time go by and see

63 is "Umlaut, how is explaining my reads on Dwelee and Roadkill fluffy? Also your reads are about opposite mine so... yeah. This game could be awkward."
like, you're acknowledging opposite reads? you don't want to try and explain why a sr of umlaut is town? or why an umlaut tr is maf? instead of just calling it awkward, you could work with umlaut? just an idea. another perspective can sometimes help with reading people. Actually, this post is just telling me I need to revisit my read here later, we're gonna go withSleepless not town, but I'm also not entirely sold on Sleepless maf yet, so just in the middle, definitely want more in terms of content

[Andante]

7/10 LOL ok, I have an ISO pulled up, and I type, I've realized not all my posts seem super clear with who I'm talking about. each person has their own post, and no I'm not concerned about post count, burn 8 catching up/making my thoughts clear on each person, leaves with 2 left, and there's 10 more soon

~ This post is on Dwlee (see, super clear! post before this was Sleepless) ~
lol Dwlee trying to pocket me I see... also if you know pony? idk you XD (maybe I do... idk lol)

I like 21!! it's like, kinda sticking up for me when I wasn't here "yeah it's not AI" like, thank you!! lol me getting hammered there was a genuine concern, cause I feel like I'm definitely the kind of person to get lolhammered
ok, thoughts on dwlee!
32 good reaction to the "bus your partner" also, did you just call out a bad read on you from Sleepless? like a forced read from sleepless? (ughh my brain doesn't work in ISO mode like this, but it's the easiest way to catch up.. Something there with Sleepless? who knows??)
"My post was in reference to the fact that we only get 10 posts per day, but someone has to be the first to use one to get the ball rolling onto something. " like yeah, I think it was fin, even if it was a wagon on me, like, someone has to do something, and I fully believe maf was more likely to just blindly sheep a wagon than start one

My response to 38: Same. thus I signed up for this to litrerally just to show yall I can play off 10 posts a day instead of 100 lol

51 -LOL yeah! roadkill brings up a great point!! Why no wild spam this game?? suspicious.

57 are good takes, and the way you said them, you're not like trying to go "HEY WORLD HERE'S REAS!! TR ME!!" just a casual "thinking this"

Response to 74- what do you mean no memes?

uh yeah, so Dwlee is probably town, town lean, like, they're solving, but not solving for the purpose of being TRed (I think that makes sense) like, maf cares about appearance or coasts, there's no in between ever, So far my reads are looking like:
Town to Scum:
Three/Umlaut - tied for towniest
Dwlee
mc esther
Sleepless
Joqiza
and I need more from wh4t before I put them anywhere, I'm not putting someone in a reads list off 1 post

[Andante]

8/10 I AM SO SORRY I KEEP FORGETTING TO LINK POSTS!!! I'm new to that, and keep forgetting, you can just pull up whoever's ISO to read, it's easier that way
ok, read on Roadkill, final one!!! tbh this is the best way to catch up also, I'm SURE yall missed me 10 posts a day? easy!

ah yes. you're the one who put me on e-1... automatic lock scum read. lol jk
It is definitely a bold move, I would say that. but my friend, you were prepared to risk my dying? kinda sad
but all that aside, 24 is good, yeah it'd definitely get a stronger response than e-2, saying you like me snapping bac though, don't you think both town and maf would snap back? like, the only true thing anyone gets from that is I'm not partners with you because of how I snapped back, I don't think anyone else really got anything there, and meh I'm ignoring the questions to me, my posts was a rushed "ah crap. votes on me!! uhh I'm not gonna be here, don/t yeet me. k thanks!"
42 - I like the "why does my experience change your read" like, yeah, why does experience even matter? lol ah the sleepless post.. *the* post, it keeps coming up, and idk what to think, moving on, I'm not commenting further on this.
43 - judging someone off only having 1 content post? mehh overall there is minimal content, and I'm having a feeling that town is definitely in the pool of no content, judging by how slow moving all this has been.. yeah I'm not a fan of the judging off content when ALL you have is the e-1 vote, talking about that, and saying how cause you have experience, that doesn't make you maf? idk, I'd say you don't have much content lol
45- ehh you got a lot more from flipping votes than I would there tbh, but I don't think this means you're maf, I could see the town thought process to that.
Response to 66- "you're throwing out reads without a lot of 'oomph' behind them, and not really pressing on the wagon itself" wouldn't that make them town? like, what about Dwlee's play actually says maf? like, I kinda think Dwlee maf would be playing a lot differently like, this is POST 66... basically nothing is in this game, like, I'm not calling you maf, but it's more, I think you're town, and I just wanna know if you're looking at Dwlee with like tunnel vison they must be maf, or if you're actually trying to see if they're town or maf (I hope that explanation makes sense, your push there just feels a tad off, idk what exactly it is about it)

saying stuff like "he starts from one place and ends up at another one, with a different conclusion from the beginning." makes me want to SR you though, like, it's called town changing their minds, stuff happens. it's good to not lock yourself into reads. I'm overall just a little confused, but I'll sort you later if I have to like, you'll say stuff that's like texbook maf, calling people out for very minor stuff, but one could argue it's to generate conversation, cause I have a whole bag of tricks for making people talk, and judging by e-1 stuff, you seem like you do stuff to generate talking, but idk, I'm not scum leaning you, but I also question if you're town (if that makes sense)
Town to Scum:
Three/Umlaut - tied for towniest
Dwlee
mc esther/Roadkill - I think I'd put you tied with mc tbh
Sleepless
Joqiza
and I need more from wh4t before I put them anywhere, I'm not putting someone in a reads list off 1 post
Top
Quick Reply

[Sleepless Assassin]

Andante so is your case on joqiza that he's trying to get people to use up posts? If so, can you tell me how that benefits scum? Joqiza is probably my strongest town read which probably makes you think I'm scum with him but oh well lol.

63 is "Umlaut, how is explaining my reads on Dwelee and Roadkill fluffy? Also your reads are about opposite mine so... yeah. This game could be awkward."
like, you're acknowledging opposite reads? you don't want to try and explain why a sr of umlaut is town? or why an umlaut tr is maf? instead of just calling it awkward, you could work with umlaut?

I kind of think he's town for now. But yeah that post kind of started the dialogue. He hasn't replied yet. I don't know how you fault me for it not going anywhere yet.

~ This post is on Dwlee (see, super clear! post before this was Sleepless) ~
lol Dwlee trying to pocket me I see... also if you know pony? idk you XD (maybe I do... idk lol)

I assume you mean Pony on Mafia Universe?

I like 21!! it's like, kinda sticking up for me when I wasn't here "yeah it's not AI" like, thank you!! lol me getting hammered there was a genuine concern, cause I feel like I'm definitely the kind of person to get lolhammered

Is there a reason defending you is town rather than a white knight?

Preview edit: I'm gonna get in before the reset so I haven't read that yet

[Andante]

9/10 hahaha ehh not perfectly formatted, but I think I did a dang good job, I'm caught up! I can see I missed nothing! and I'm down to vote joqiza here tbh, idk, I'd love to see what he has to say now though, like "ah crap. got called out for doing nothing? it's right..."
the sleepless post, I don't even know, each time I read it I think something different, it's not something to deal with now, as I'm sure everyone with minimal content will have more soon!!

[joqiza]

Andante your 83 is ridiculously uncharitable.

Do you really not understand why I was skeptical of your opening post? It's not something I've ever actually seen and asking you to give examples is not something crazy.

You can't even provide any examples. It would take one post to say "yeah here you go." In theory you shouldn't have to reread

your own games

in order to find one, that's what I'd have to do to verify it, but you'd just remember and be like... "Yeah, here you go. Let's move on."

FWIW I was prepared to accept something like "Yeah idk I can't think of any examples, guess I just spoke heat of the moment." But this is... A lot

Your other comments on my posts are so aggressive and... Unpleasant, some not even making any reference to what my alignment would be just attacking the way I post. Nowhere in my suspicion of you did I ever address you or treat you like that and given that we know each other and have played with each other before I want to believe it's just because I caught you and not because you actually think any of this stuff?

64 "I really need Andante to come back. My train of thought is unresolved there and I feel like everything will click once I get a read on her." Is this to just buy you time to actually put any effort into this? "Oh I don't have to try till she shows up and links games" like, I'm pretty sure Dwlee was there for turbo mode game, and you're all " they ain't partners"

What does this reference to Dwlee and the turbo game even mean? It just confuses me.

[joqiza]

62 "Meh whatever. I'm thinking about it more and getting after people on language use is pointless. Y'all can talk how you want to talk." wow. pointless to go after how people talk? who'd have guessed?

Why even post this. So unnecessary and mean spirited. I hope your wifi goes down next time you wanna watch Netflix

[Andante]

this is either 10/10 or a 1/10, but I shall respond to 92 and 93

92 - I mean, sure I can see why you'd be like "you sure that happens??" and think about it now, tbh I think I encouraged the speed wagons lol but like, looking at your posts, that's like the only significant thing you talked about?? like, do you not get why I don't tr you at all?

FINE! here's a game, 2 speedwagons. Dwlee shot me for it too viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88352 actually I think that one was just T3 speed, but there's other times I definitely rememebr the speed
no, there's definitely examples and dwlee was there both times I believe?

sorry if you didn't like my post, like, I was just giving thoughts on your posts. have you read your ISO? I suggest you just skim it, it'd take maybe a minute... then, consider someone who hasn't read anything reading that. Do you expect them to be like "OMG SO TOWNY!!" like, your posts there are just.. yeah no idk, feels like maf trying to look busy, I don't tr you there, none of it was meant to be rude. sorry

lol bringing the wifi into this... no netflix? cool! I can be productive and get stuff done

[Umlaut]

I will eat a hat if Andante is scum.

I'll go back and address earlier comments to me in the morning, just want to get that out there.

[mc esther]

i like wh4t's unvote and reads. the readslist looks almost completely arbitrary lmao, i like to think maf would post something a little less controversial than that, or maybe with explanations. i very much dont believe in just unvoting (especially at this point in the game) but i think a lot of players do, and i think this is where they'd usually do it as town.

[joqiza]

Andante idgaf if you tr me or Sr me. If you don't think my iso is towny I'm w/e, but if you make posts like 83 you can expect a response.

@SA what did I do to be your strongest TR
@mcesther why did you vote me when you did? You said you were thinking of voting me earlier but didn't find Umlaut's points convincing, then you voted me after andante posted. Does this imply you found andante's posts convincing or is something else going on?

VOTE: Three I want to see what shakes out from this.

All of you are wolves imo until I find mafia, if I had to bet my life on Villa reads it would be umlaut and roadkill but atm I have low confidence across the board. Players like mc Esther have towny pings at times but it's not like anything they've said is really unfakeable from a wolf alignment. Will expand on all of this in a couple hours when I'm on lunch break

[joqiza]

Will expand on all of this in a couple hours when I'm on lunch break

EBWOP: will finish it this evening, ran out of time

[Umlaut]

Umlaut, how is explaining my reads on Dwelee and Roadkill fluffy? Also your reads are about opposite mine so... yeah. This game could be awkward.

33 is explaining a read? You're reading Dwlee as scum for... being more concerned about the post limit than you? That's novel.

46 is pointless/fluffy because (1) explaining to Roadkill that he's scum is a fundamentally pointless exercise, and (2) it doesn't go anywhere, just sort of peters out with "I could see it as maybe opportunistic/scummy but also maybe not"

as for the reads themselves, umlaut: why do you think scum would have an issue presenting something they might do and then subvert it (58)? the post you linked, 38, isn't a very intense descriptor of play and even has it stated as some games, as in, sometimes dwlee will not go wild, so it's... it's not really difficult to go against something you only do sometimes.

also, is 19 really a misrep? you're stretching, but also... the context makes sense? we were around rvs, and andante mentioned lolhammering, to me that feels like... the connection made that andante fears being lolhammered in rvs/that point of the game.

(i have some other thoughts on your joqiza read but i think they're best chewed upon until you reply to him/if you do.)

I don't think it's impossible for scum to make a post like 58, and you're right that they only say

sometimes

so it's not exactly conclusive. But I think the natural inclination is to try to match one's own idea of how one plays as town, or at least how one claims to play as town. I think Dwlee would more likely just not make that comment at all if scum.

I'm really not voting Joq for 19, that was an afterthought as I was rereading their posts, but let me go ahead and explain it anyway. I realize Andante was indeed talking about a threat of being hammered during RVS, but, like, let me make an analogy here:

• Alice tells Bob, "Watch out while you're walking around outside today, there have been a lot of muggings in the area"
  
• Bob asks, "When has there been a mugging recently during the day?"
  
• Alice admits, "Actually they were all at night, come to think of it."

Maybe this is a good rejoinder on Bob's part, but it isn't catching Alice in any sort contradiction. She may well have been legitimately concerned, and even if she doesn't need to be in this case it doesn't mean she was being disingenuous. She probably just didn't think of that aspect.

What Joq posted was:

Going to ask you to cite examples of town lolhammering someone in RVS because it's pretty rare in my experience. I'm not sure I believe that

you

believe that you were just going to get run up and die.

He wasn't trying to reassure Andante or clarify anything, he was specifically suggesting that Andante was lying and didn't really believe she could be in danger. That is a misrep, intentional or not.

I will admit that the way Joq has doubled down on criticizing words as simple as "bad" leads me to think that, regardless of alignment, he really means it and isn't

just

language-policing as a substitute for playing the game.