Micro 964: Your Nightmare GAME OVER!

[Isis]

VOTE: Menalque for implying that the cute lil octupus I saw last time I was in the south pacific is anything but a cuddlebuddy

[Isis]

Beeboy's attitude towards his deliberate gamethrowing seems kind of properly tuned in a way I want to townread. Does that make sense?

[Isis]

I think they are similar to me in taking mafia very seriously and also taking fun very seriously. That's the best way to play mafia

[Isis]

Do you fear failure more when you have no evidence of success, or do you feel failure the most when it would ruin lots of success?

[Isis]

I experience both dynamics but the latter is way stronger for me. It happens in mafia where I fear solving f3 wrong or getting scumread more at the ending part of a game that went well.

It's a very unfortunate dynamic for me when trying to win at PAD ranking dungeons because they are a mix of random and skill. They will be like 8 floors long and I am good enough to match enough damage for a kill like 80% of the time, but extra score points fall from the sky randomly each floor. If I get to floor 7 or 8 and I noticed that I got a lot more extra points than usual, I get extra scared of fucking up and not getting enough damage from playing poorly, and the 20% flub rate spikes to like 80. Then I feel really shitty I didn't finish out the run and get the top 3% score I needed because not only am I not that good I also have a sort of insecurity about it.

[Isis]

correct
sorry for answering it early

[Isis]

You absolutely make the questionaire as both alignments, I just think as a dictiony toneready thing I am seeing a town execution of it. IT's gutty

[Isis]

Ari's question seems equivalent to fear massclaim I thought were were going to half-throw instead of full-throw

[Isis]

nahdia was "is your fear common?" which is nice perfect halfthrow

[Isis]

[quote="Chara""]Do you have recurring nightmares?[/quote]
Yes

Are you more afraid of failing others or of being failed by others, and why?

I'm afraid of others failing me and I'm afraid of failing myself. I'm a pretty flawed character.

Is your fear common?

No

Have you tried following advice for tackling your fear and does it work?

hmmm
The fear I wanted to submit I have and it worked a little bit. I got advice from a scummer about it. I didn't submit that one because I asked Jingle pregame "do I kind of lose some edge if people onsite know about my fear" and he was kind of yeah.
I think time is kind of the best solvent for a lot of fears.

Do you fear failure more when you have no evidence of success, or do you feel failure the most when it would ruin lots of success?

I typoed "feel" instead of "fear" in this question.
I fear messing up success the most.

Have you ever experienced your fear?

I think this is asking if the anticipated event has ever occurred. I've experienced it in my nightmares, therefore yes. I'm a big proponent of thinking of dreams as being as valid as reality. I might have to bring back my old signature soon. Maybe after this post.

Jingle can i put my babus quote signature as sig even though the train of thought for doing so is incentivized by this game?

Hectic made an alt with the intent to only play it in one game then abandon it and then S_S wouldn't let him put a quote from the only game he was in as the sig. It was draconian. That means S_S is a dragon.

In your own mind do you consider your fear to be rationale?

No

Where would you hide in the event of a zombie apocalypse?

I'm not sure Hectic understood the half-throw game. I would hide on one of the abandoned floors of the office building where I used to work. It's very peaceful.

How often do you face your fear?
It bubbles up monthly

[Isis]

shit Jingle's onto us

[Isis]

I hope that's not construed as making fun of your fear
I think when I was 12 or so I had a chapter of fearing that no one else is sentient, pretty similar

[Isis]

Similarly unfalsifiable
anyway

I asked a modquestion and wasn't meming Jingle (can I use the sig I used most of last year even though it's because this game made me excited about dreams)

[Isis]

not the same exact dreams, but the same themes that follow me through them, resulting in lucid nightmares.

Lucid as in the term meaning you know it's a dream? Do you never gain control over your dream or its events or the prospect of waking up? I generally do and it's generally enough control to flip the script

[Isis]

I don't understand how replacements would impact this game differently. I mean it inhibits the silly minigame we are trying to gamethrow with but that doesn't seem integral to the game

[Isis]

Oh are you like assuming Jingle won't inform the replacement what was submitted pregame?

I like, assume Jingle informs Dannflor what fear Menalque submitted.

[Isis]

Why did you participate if you think it's dumb?

[Isis]

Chara's new avatar has a funny sort-of relation to my fear submission and it's trippy

[Isis]

Nope. I stopped having nightmares when I started lucid dreaming. I don't lucid dream as often now, but whenever I experience something which would normally be a nightmare, my dream-self rationalises it as a movie I'm watching, or a play I'm participating in, so I never feel like I'm in any peril.

I had that happen once, but the movie was so very bad and unentertaining that I felt like I still had to count it as a nightmare.
On the other hand, one time, I bought a ticket for the movie Avatar, and put myself in peril, but I fell asleep in the theatre, so I escaped.

[Isis]

I feel like my avatar nap story bears repeating, unlike James Cameron's 2.79 billion dollar grossing film Avatar, which is unrewatchable, in addition to being unwatchable

[Isis]

I just posted nine questions about what he feels insecure about, what he thinks is most dangerous in society, and asked which horror film character he considers the most "realistic" in his GTKAS where he's not banned, I got this really recent interest in Menalque's life..

[Isis]

I like beeboy's interpretation.

It's not exactly the same but I'm reminded of when S_S was loose about his main account and made himself eligible for bonus vigging and expected to be townread for it, when mechanically it didn't help him as either alignment

Mask of Monsters not Wolf Dance
I don't think it's town indicative
I'm gonna read danceflor though I don't think it's strongly indicative in general.

[Isis]

I think it's towny that Ari replaced his rolefishy question with a still-pretty-rolefishy question

it just seems pretty oblivious to this whole axis which scum probably wouldn't be

[Isis]

I'm just scratching at the walls. I think everything is still weak right now but pushing the crumbs around is helpful

[Isis]

I think a lot of reads I make in mafia are for reasons that aren't right but are adjacent to something that's right.
If you find the scum with it the scum get really cranky then kind of out themselves.
Crumbpushing little scumpings is better for that reason but I can't find any.
I liked the way Chara responded to me even though I didn't see its response till my third reskim of this game; I keep skipping posts a lot somehow

[Isis]

It's a good avatar.
I'm probably more likely to bias into scumreading it but that's true of lots of avatars.
It has some 4 degrees of Kevin Bacon steps in how it's related to my submission and doesn't cause much anxiety related to my fear.

I was thinking it reminds me of the anthropologist guy from Danganronpa, but now looking it up it looks like it might be precisely him? (as a fanart?)
Korekiyo Shinguji
He is one of my favorite characters but I wouldn't say why for such a spoilerish game

[Isis]

Dann you should absolutely do the questionaire because we love you and clogging the thread with NAI is every bit as throwy as rolefishing ourselves so we can bond in the solidarity

[Isis]

CSI GeorgeBailey

[Isis]

@Dann: 1, sorry

I've only read pages 5-7 what do I need to know?

Well, GeorgeBailey claimed he fears clowns on page 4 that was the main big thing. Do you think the person who got "clowns" should kill him? I think he seems a bit townier than usual based on the past couple of pages so if a townie drew his card they should holster, what do you think?

[Isis]

I wish I still had exams, I didn't develop the common "register for a class and forget to attend" dreams until after I graduated university somehow

[Isis]

Throwing energy: I get townpings from 248 and don't get them from 282 and I don't know why.

For some reason I always get strong impressions off choice short posts from GeorgeBailey.

[Isis]

There's a leaked track Taylor Swift's studio didn't allow her to release on page 3 and a similar single of Ariana Grande's on page 2

[Isis]

more reason than town?

I thought about responding to this but then forgot to but then now not much is happening
I think in general scum will feel more motivated to keep their achilles heel secret because the instinctual desire to survive weighs heavier compared to the instinctual desire to explore or express moreso
I think if you know a player well and knew how their fear of getting vigged would interact with their WIM (which I might be using wrong I just learned this new word) you could make exceptions or go the other way, some people will feel like getting scumvigged "isn't their fault", some would think it's the only way they can get cheated out of playing so it'd be the worst, both things for town too.

If I didn't know a player at all I'd think they'd guard more when they roll scum.
Were you hard disagreeing or just whatabouting about it?

[Isis]

There's a leaked track Taylor Swift's studio didn't allow her to release on page 3 and a similar single of Ariana Grande's on page 2

OKAY THAT WAS CHEAP!

For the record, I was

pretty sure

you were lying but I read the two pages thoroughly just to be sure!
And there was a YOUTUBE VIDEO on page 2 and I gor excited and it was just THE GODDAMNED WHO and I have never been more disappointed to see them!

Uhh, I got a scumread on the Melanque (Dannflor?) slot from that read.
Thanks actually.
Even if I'm bitter

This is the best thing I've ever done.

Also I'm going to follow you around the forums and undercut any of your praise of Taylor Swift with "but

Ari

likes

Ari

ana Grande better", because apparently

Want to wagon Dannflor with me?

[Isis]

I like the new avatar, Isis. Did you get a better or even more exclusive scholarship? You seem happier now.

Thank you.
I saw this art and couldn't help but try it as an avatar. I have a grave side and the other one has a Mona Lisa smile that fits me in a way but I think I have a happy side too.

I had a happy day today so it fits.

[Isis]

Ari we're supposed to be pushing some wagons to enliven the dayplay not policying Dannflor for being a smidge above average at scum

pedit: yes I read online somewhere that the class of dreams is common
I'd probably also have anecdotal evidence too if dream discussion wasn't altogether too intimate and inappropriate to suggest broaching with even my most intimate friends but totally fine to discuss in this google indexed game thread with a mix of internet strangers

[Isis]

Actually after hearing some discussion on the topic I am adjusting my value to 3

When I played dodgeball I think I sometimes feared getting "out" so much that my reflex time went down a few fractions of a second and made me stay in play longer than the average player.
I was too weak to throw so I just scavenged the balls and gifted them to teammate players

[Isis]

Dannflor/Hectic team

I would honestly love this

BTW I adore your avatar

I think this is a love triangle now. Which TSwizzle song goes in the movie soundtrack?

[Isis]

Dannflor/Hectic team

I would honestly love this

BTW I adore your avatar

I think this is a love triangle now. Which TSwizzle song goes in the movie soundtrack?

Soooooooooooo

betty

,

august

, and

cardigan

are a trio of songs off of

folklore

which highlight a love triangle and all three are beautiful and emotional and uplifting yet oh so tragic in their own ways and I absolutely adore the storytelling prowess pf Taylor Swift within them and the more one listens and analyses hoe they fit together the more deeply one feels for the people involved AND she names the people in the songs after her good friends Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively's kids and it was a spoiler as to the name of their real life baby which was previously unreleased to the public and it is FANTASTIC!!!

So, uh, that.

He says that but what

Ari

really prefers is

Ar

...
ugh I can't do it he's dripping with so much enthusiasm

[Isis]

I only really liked Betty

[Isis]

Of the three
Tswizzle romanticizes the impulsivity of our more tender years in a way that will never quite excite me. I understand, it's something that makes the future more unpredictable and mysterious. But it never fully clicks for me.

[Isis]

I have a decent jerb lead.
And I made top 10% of ranking dungeon, I had to give up on 3% for this particular iteration but the 10% prizes are pretty good

[Isis]

also

Spoiler:

[Isis]

red aggro deck dont need no rare

[Isis]

That's Loki, though from the quality of the image I'm not sure even I would be able to disambiguate using that picture. They're from the same litter

[Isis]

This might sound dumb but Ari is a bit ahead of rand to be town because he read only one page of content and got a scumread.
But he wasn't reading to produce content for the thread, he was reading to find a taylor swift song. Scum are less likely than town to develop scumreads off of posts spontaneously (scum have chance to just stumble on wow this looks so pushable, but it's just less than wow i need a tinfoil hat). When you roll scum you bring your content amount to the same place by rereading more and reading with intent

It hinges on whether Ari would misrepresent his attitude towards the intent of his reading but that part doesn't seem faked.

[Isis]

appealing to fear is something both alignments will be doing in this game ba dum tish

[Isis]

I think my town read on Ari gives me a stronger town read on beeboy than it actually does on Ari

If I thought Ari seemed towny the whole time through am I supposed to think you and beeboy are both scums

The "progression synchronicity" thing here is new to me, I usually care more about reasons, and only give read synchronicity any credence when it's like 3 reads and they're all unpopular

[Isis]

you don't have to treat the question as rhetorical, people debate whether synchronicity is actually gerd mafia. I think Nahdia? Or someone that reminds me of them.

should I scumread people with different progressions from me who end up the same place yea or nay?

[Isis]

best answer
dayvig your scumpartner
no progression
one out of six times it works every time

[Isis]

I don't think I know whether 345 is a reaction to Ari's most recent posts or a holistic breather moment that isn't specific with them. But I'm not sure if being more confident about figuring something out like that would be something you'd put energy into faking so why hold it against you

[Isis]

i'm not sure what it'd gain you; almost positive you wouldn't bother even if you're scum it's a truthful point
multitabbing hearthstone is hard

[Isis]

druids are bullshit, that's what's going on here not that I used half my turn timer on a mafia post

[Isis]

This might sound dumb but Ari is a bit ahead of rand to be town because he read only one page of content and got a scumread.
But he wasn't reading to produce content for the thread, he was reading to find a taylor swift song. Scum are less likely than town to develop scumreads off of posts spontaneously (scum have chance to just stumble on wow this looks so pushable, but it's just less than wow i need a tinfoil hat). When you roll scum you bring your content amount to the same place by rereading more and reading with intent

It hinges on whether Ari would misrepresent his attitude towards the intent of his reading but that part doesn't seem faked.

I don't disagree with this assessment.
But I also don't think it's going to stop me from checking Ari's meta down the line.

If I don't do this uhhh yell at me I guess?

ever since Krazy promised to do a meta and didn't do it as scum I always get so paranoid about this
because I gave him credit for being interested in doing it but then he didn't actually townside the gamestate by doing it
I don't have the sample size I want though so I just see posts like this and stress, now

[Isis]

I've been playing recently and a lot of the new cards give you discover choices which makes it fun.

Class balance is fine, I lost to a druid in arena but I don't think druids are actually imbalanced in arena.

[Isis]

don't you do this to me beeboy

[Isis]

are you saying this is a game that has 5 top scum players on site?!?!?

[Isis]

I am drinking so great time to draft you a fantasy football team

[Isis]

Chara

[Isis]

Chara

[Isis]

Chara

[Isis]

Chara

[Isis]

Chara

[Isis]

beeboy a football team only has five players you can't add a sixth are you drunk?

[Isis]

beeboy did you spectate achievement mafia?

[Isis]

beeboy we are all together in this universe and everything is connected ok

[Isis]

[Isis]

in achievement mafia i said i think it's really towny when someone says they're not gonna put in some protown effort but then does that exact thing

your avatar looks like tipsy's so even though I believe you it still feels sneakkkkkky

[Isis]

so i guess is hould tell you
that aristophanes memorably hard defended scum!LLD in aVp which I don't think is any of the games you linked?
Ari was town
I don't remember how he treated her renown but that might interest you
i'm kind of not vibing the whole thing not sure if I'm skipping a logic step or just don't buy in

[Isis]

yes if you still town!tipsy's townspew tricks that would be extra dirty promise you wouldn't do that

[Isis]

tipsy is my favorite dont tellll

[Isis]

*steal not still

[Isis]

Priest is bullshit that doesn't need a qualifier that I think it's balanced

[Isis]

NO I want Tipsy
I'm their true devotee I townread them even when they rolled scum
you cruelly posted a game outcome
disloyalty

[Isis]

priest is a stupid class that doesn't belong in hearthstone.

[Isis]

I think I heard during AvP that Ari rarely rolls scum?

[Isis]

maybe he's an SK

[Isis]

my first knowledge of you is Jingle killing you in the OP of an invitational cause you wouldn't come play an invitational

[Isis]

I reread your post and now I think maybe you meant one of the games you researched had 5 of the best scum players, not that this one does?

[Isis]

I stand by my methodology for drafting 5 good scum players from this playerlist though

[Isis]

the treestump thingy was awful, no one should have been tree stump, I don't believe in the gametype anymore

I had a very mixed experience

[Isis]

everyone who decreased their involvement in AvP made the right call

[Isis]

dannfloor is OVERRATED

[Isis]

he rolled scum with me and didn't carry me

[Isis]

I probably was exaggerating to the point of lying in purgatory on how I feel about Dann's scumgame. I think Hectic's scumrange is probably wider and like more complex
pedit: funny pedit

[Isis]

I empathize with you
0.0%

[Isis]

you're both monsters

[Isis]

? but you just said you wanted to roll it?
Did you mean playing scum, cause it's an eat-some-broccoli goal for you atm?

[Isis]

i have a weird duality that I like to believe I suck at scum, but I want to generate enough scum WR that I have to go "Isis, for you to be rational you have to estimate your scumgame as some amount north of where you're putting it", but how far north does not matter. Then like, I am happy to just not roll much scum and keep that shifted target.
Rolling scum in setups like Purgatory doesn't do anything to change my assessment hardly and just makes me cranky
rolling scum in setups like crossfire is mostly i didn't want to rand scum at all but i felt like I got to play towards that goal of proving my insecure self wrong and I messed up but noticed things i could do different

[Isis]

I think Billy isn't town but that was a fine post actually

[Isis]

I've never played with Billy before, I like seriousposters. But I got a sense of him being cognizant but complicit when the gamestate was stalled a bit.

[Isis]

wait how does being bad at scum limit your towngame

[Isis]

is this an only a sith can kill a sith thing or something

[Isis]

VOTE: BillyPilgrim

[Isis]

Dannflor's explanation sounds like ways of cornering himself into needing to tryhard??!?! beeboy's makes sense.

I just try to be high WIM whether I am town and the lobby will townread me or probably won't or I'm scum or 3p

Maybe I have to reach a certain threshhold of town goodness before these factors start making sense

[Isis]

[Isis]

Dannflor's explanation sounds like ways of cornering himself into needing to tryhard??!?! beeboy's makes sense.

another explanation might be that I'm just a masochist

[Isis]

All this talk about Hearthstone is making me crave coming back to it, but I know it's a terrible idea and I shouldn't. I think the skill ceiling peak was Patron Warrior and I should just be happy I witnessed that.

Download mtg arena and I'll teach you how to draft well

Isn't that like really expensive or am I thinking of something else

Hearthstone arena mode is it makes me fight people with the same win loss record so I gain more gold than I lose. MtG arena draft mode makes me fight higher and high rated players until it guarantees I can't make my entry cost back.

[Isis]

hectic/dannflor is where im at rn. dont like how at the bottom of page 19, hectic agrees dannflor's slot has some scumminess, then throws a random georgebailey vote and then votes chara.

I lean town on him overall. Still think the lie from Mene was pretty towny.

If he was my partner, I would probably tunnel and start a toxic 1v1 with him - I've always wanted to do one of those. Isis can attest to this.

regardless of your alignment, i have to tell you faking a toxic 1v1 with your partner is not as fun as it sounds. Undertale was exhausting.

but the sweet sweet W

[Isis]

Not a ton of Saturday posts.

Hectic was really serious in Purgatory, and it was ironic because he was on an alt made out of a lovecraftian creature. He just finished that game so it'd make sense he could be serious here. He's posted plenty this game without seeming very readable to me but that's how he usually is to me.
Nahdia agreed with how I felt about Dann giving beeboy such a free townread but like emotionally I had already given up an decided to feel pocketed and bathe in the hottub of it. It makes me like Nahdia. Because synchonicity is a towntell QED. Right? Right. Right.
Should I stop spamposting and start collating? Chara is trying to guilt me

[Isis]

nvm I think Billy is town and that was a fine post actually

Man your pivots are kinda giving me whiplash.

Really didn't like this post. There's like a missing curiosity about Dann's alignment

[Isis]

I almost never get to play Isis as a leader cause they won't buff her but the new pixel valk challenge dungeon plays to her strengths so much that she beat it after I lost 5 times as stupid Yugi!!!!
I taped the killshot!

Bonus: Tinker is from MtG collab, it cleared that green debuff that would have disabled the special effect for making a white square

[Isis]

Georgebailey is goodvoting

[Isis]

This kind of clarification is kind of indistinguishable from "oops I should have been not scummy instead of scummy", especially since apparently if I hadn't said anything you wouldn't have engaged Dann at all and stuck your neck out to that extent.

Explaining is better than not explaining but this doesn't help me as much as like, when Dann was explaining his beeboy pivot to me.

[Isis]

hectic/dannflor is where im at rn. dont like how at the bottom of page 19, hectic agrees dannflor's slot has some scumminess, then throws a random georgebailey vote and then votes chara.

I think Nahdia is town specifically because I think the hectic/dannflor solve is so bad that scum is not going to jump to it so easily especially after Ari's posts

TOXIC

[Isis]

i forgot

Why did you find #437 AI in anyway

MAKING ME GO BACK SEVERAL PAGES CAUSE YOU DIDN'T USE POST LINKS IS ALSO TOXIC!

437

[Isis]

literally wasnt even aware ari had the same read. this feels like a stretch. like a round about way of saying "step off down scumread me" instead of just actually addressing me.

yes it is exactly a stretch

i stretch

i forgot

Why did you find #437 AI in anyway

This seems like brandnewinfo but you are resistant to change your read. Is this confbias or image preservation? Throwing out scumteam names has a lot less weight if it hasn't already been suggested so I don't know what you would have left.
Maybe "I stretch" is supposed to be a retraction but I want to pin you down on whether it is because I can't tell

[Isis]

591 is a town post. Isis can fight me about it.
VOTE: Dannflor

though the player i'd most want to hear from now is probably Nahdia.
584 and Hectic's general demeanor feels like he's playing mediator and not investigator.
but i'd love feedback, as far as i can remember our only significant game together i spent knowing he was town, so i don't want to use it as comparison but keep subconsciously doing so.

I am phone posting because Pandora is using my computer chair.
591 is greener than it is red.Why are you just naming a post, saying it's townie without why, then naked voting a different slot though? You don't seem to be trying to ensure Billy survives today as much as much as ensuring your hands are clean.

As far as the compromise wagons go I would prefer picking Dannflor for his "stretch"y progressions over GB. I don't think beeboy's gripe makes much sense, it's possible and even common to perceive a strange interaction and not know whether it's a faithless mispush or pillowbussing. So common the invert version of that is in the first part of this post.
Only finding one slot or two in this game salient isn't bad on its own when you consider the way this day has gone.

[Isis]

591 is a town post. Isis can fight me about it.
VOTE: Dannflor

though the player i'd most want to hear from now is probably Nahdia.
584 and Hectic's general demeanor feels like he's playing mediator and not investigator.
but i'd love feedback, as far as i can remember our only significant game together i spent knowing he was town, so i don't want to use it as comparison but keep subconsciously doing so.

I am phone posting because Pandora is using my computer chair.
591 is greener than it is red.Why are you just naming a post, saying it's townie without why, then naked voting a different slot though? You don't seem to be trying to ensure Billy survives today as much as much as ensuring your hands are clean.

As far as the compromise wagons go I would prefer picking Dannflor for his "stretch"y progressions over GB. I don't think beeboy's gripe makes much sense, it's possible and even common to perceive a strange interaction and not know whether it's a faithless mispush or pillowbussing. So common the invert version of that is in the first part of this post.
Only finding one slot or two in this game salient isn't bad on its own when you consider the way this day has gone.

We just finished a game with Dann where he had similar "stretchy" posts. Why do you think these ones are scum-indicative and not just more of the same?

I don't want to lynch Dann, I think he's probably town. Also, I'm a huge fan of Spiffybringer and I can tell Dann is too based on his avatar. Us Spiffybringer fans have gotta stick together.

I don't remember as much flyfishing in Purgatory but I perceived that game as scum so everything might be colored differently from how you see it.

[Isis]

I am phone posting because Pandora is using my computer chair.
591 is greener than it is red.Why are you just naming a post, saying it's townie without why, then naked voting a different slot though? You don't seem to be trying to ensure Billy survives today as much as much as ensuring your hands are clean.

i've given other reasons Pilgrim is town besides that one post, so saying that my lack of explanation in this specific instance reads like i don't actually care if he lives or not is a weird take. i specifically challenged you on the read because i knew you scumread him and wanted to see what you'd comment.

Dann was where i wanted to put my vote, it's not related to Pilgrim, besides that i prefer a non-Pilgrim lynch.

You're focusing on my less important point, and that's a rather annoying tactic. Why aren't you sparing even a word about why we should kill one of the most active slots in the game if your goal is for us to kill him (Dann) instead of Billy?

[Isis]

I think Billy Pilgrim is referring specifically to the "elitell" of a player is posting in most of their games but not really posting in the one they're scum in.
It's one of the more reliable tells in mafia and it maybe outweighs the things I was townreading Ari for.

[Isis]

It's particularly attractive as a means to convince myself I'm wrong about Billy, too.
I don't like GeorgeBaileywagon.
VOTE: Aristophanes
pedit: Did you mean you have some Mafia.Discussion type opinions about the "lurky in the scumgame active in the towngames" thesis?

[Isis]

I multitabbed too hard and stranded my reply to Chara instead of finishing it oops

[Isis]

pedit: why does Dann being active have anything to do with his alignment?
i voted him there because i wanted to consolidate, don't have anyone else, and i lightly SR the slot for failing to signal town to me.

how am i supposed to know which part of your point is the important one? it certainly sounded like your issue was my approach to Pilgrim, Isis.

It doesn't have to do with his alignment, it has to do with the wisdom/gravity of removing him though. An active playerlist leads to a protown gamestate and while it's always better to remove a red player when choosing between red and green, highly active players of either alignment make it more likely scum will be found if they're alive longer. It's just the opposite logic of policying lurkers.

"failing to signal town" is a disappointing second highest scumread but I guess it's possible for this game. It's still a lot better to say so than to say nothing about it.

I guess maybe I should say "harder to address" point rather than bigger point because you could point back at your posting history re: towncasing Billy but had to provide something new to bring your treatment of Dannflor's slot above a goose egg. Tagging a post as town without saying why and baiting me was featured pretty prominently because I'm kind of creeped out that it looks like setting me up to confbias push and call for more votes on a wagon you say you don't want which has a schemey look to it. Why did you aim to goad me into attacking a slot you think is town? Why aren't you trying to convince me to like, not attack slots, that are town.

[Isis]

Elli was more a man of "solve the game however you can" then "persuade people however you can".

"then" or "than"?

[Isis]

does that mean he'd roll town and believe people were scum for reasons that wouldn't be widely compelling, then had to disingenuously use reasons he didn't believe as strongly in?

[Isis]

I don't think I've ever played a game with elli, by all accounts that means I've missed something great

[Isis]

I persuade people based on my real reasons is that why I suck

[Isis]

I searched and apparently I played with Elli twice but they were both larges. In one I only played with him for a day before I was voted out. In the other I guess I should have learned something but it was some kind of large theme where town hammered scum 3/4 times and lost (((

[Isis]

oh shit I should see if he caught me in the game I was voted out I was scum

[Isis]

Although it's half ego to not risk "ruining" a tell I spent 2 years crafting lol.

If you skip explaining a tell so that you will be able to catch people with it in future games that's playing against wincon, similar to trust telling, and I'm against it. It's less fun because you're making it that way :/

You should play every game like it's your last.

[Isis]

is it strange or scummy to concentrate on the topic that was both easier for me to answer and the one that seemed to be your concern?

I didn't say it was strange and I didn't say it was scummy, I said it was frustrating, which meant it was frustrating. Not a superfluous clarification I guess we use negative connotation adjectives as ad hoc synonyms for scummy all the time in mafia. I'm unsure about whether it was scummy in this context, I've heard a good player before (Ali?) say that people who are frustrating or upsetting you are actually just scum more often than you realize. But I also realize "take the easy part" is a really natural way to argue and is how I win arguments about nonmafia topics and stuff so I would tend towards doubting this is one of those times.

My purpose in prefacing with the statement was that I expected my frustration to influence the rest of the post so I wanted to set the tone of the post. I don't remember how much it actually did.

I think I already said this but I thought "no comment about Dannflor is the biggest deal" would be clear but apparently it wasn't so I guess it wasn't.

[Isis]

By the way I looked up the game and skimmed it and elvis_knits caught me and Ellibereth seemed to agree but I tied myself to a townie and I won the game posthumously woo

[Isis]

Ali's thesis might have some parameters that you're supposed to restrict it with to keep it accurate. Maybe. The explanations where you and Ali are both wiser than me are more likely to be true but intuitively I think town ought to be more frustrating than mafia because mafia will cede some ground to placate you here and there.

I haven't had much opportunity to play around with it since hearing it a couple games ago because I am pretty rarely get frustrated in mafia games. Which makes me more interested in interpreting my frustration
pedit: Please wait for intent/be aware that claiming your fear is similar to selfhammering in principle

[Isis]

It's a 2/9ths selfhammer kind of
28%

[Isis]

I absolutely want to chitchat with Ari about his fear before he is hammered in a manner that has nothing to do with anyone's win% where is your gamethrow energy beeboy?

[Isis]

It could also mean their fearholder is dead fyi

To cover that, you would want to have the victim of today's lim claim the fear they're holding, then have the player susceptible to it claim and be sure not to pick that player as the leashed target. The victim of the night's factional nightkill doesn't matter because they would have participated and their kill resolves at the same time.
BUT making the victim of today's lim claim and having the player susceptible to that fear claim only works if we can be sure the victim of today's lim is town. Which we actually hope is not the case. If they're scum, they will claim to be holding the fear their partner is actually holding, and then when the player susceptible to that fear claims it's actually a really, really bad thing. If you don't make the player susceptible to the fear claim, then whoever is the leashed target can say D2 "oh guys by the way I'm afraid of the person we limmed D1".

So, I don't see how this strategy can make it past Aristophanes' complaint.

[Isis]

VOTE: Billy Pilgrim

I don't really like diving into fatalism vs. nonfatalism WIFOM a ton, but 717 is a bit townpingy.

I want to make a reads triangle I haven't gotten to do one yet

[Isis]

Doki Doki Literature Club

[Isis]

:0

[Isis]

[Isis]

goodposting

I hope that's not a response to me i feel like I should have a better handle on this game

I had to pull the avatars away from the blue vacuum so much

[Isis]

I'd post a triangle but everyone would be in the blue category.
And it would be really awkward lol.

I've been paying attention to your posts and can make your triangle for you.

Spoiler:

[Isis]

Isis, did you end up considering my arguments for Pilgrim town? or others? it sounds like you read mine.

beeboy: Hectic because you believe he could be scum, or just preferred over Ari?

They shake my certainty but until there's someone I truly find scummier he's still the scummiest.

I'm cognizant that I might have fewer total scumpings on Ari for exactly the kind of disengagement that shouldn't be rewarded that way, and that does bother me

[Isis]

I said the same thing about 717 so why don't I get asked? *petulant*

[Isis]

oh!
I don't think I agree with beeboy, actually. I just think the post seems more likely to get composed as town, for him, click submit or not.
The ironies of it are different as town vs. scum.
It's really a take where it's a question of how many wine swaps do you believe in making so it's hard to argue out.

As for other townpingy things you wanted to hear about Ari there's the thing I said a long time ago

This might sound dumb but Ari is a bit ahead of rand to be town because he read only one page of content and got a scumread.
But he wasn't reading to produce content for the thread, he was reading to find a taylor swift song. Scum are less likely than town to develop scumreads off of posts spontaneously (scum have chance to just stumble on wow this looks so pushable, but it's just less than wow i need a tinfoil hat). When you roll scum you bring your content amount to the same place by rereading more and reading with intent

It hinges on whether Ari would misrepresent his attitude towards the intent of his reading but that part doesn't seem faked.

[Isis]

Hectic compromise wagon doesn't frazzle me the way GeorgeBailey compromise did, but dumping a nullread D1 is never exciting

[Isis]

You have Monica hardsorted as OnlyMonica

[Isis]

I don't have Hectic figured out more than I did before but I don't really think Nahdia is scum. Not like in any capacity where it makes sense to decide that they are with a gram of candlewax.

They've been called about being inconsistent but it just seems like someone who has been here real-time less, and without a suspicious spread of their energies to other games or anything. This topic management issue seems more like skim factor than scumslips

[Isis]

I wasn't trying to tear you down or anything

[Isis]

That was to Nahdia

[Isis]

Hectic do you not have any hard townreads? You said you're best scumread is Nahdia and nobody's into that and games go like that sometimes, but I'm not remembering a hard townread from you all game off of recollection and that does seem a little off par for how much this game has developed.

[Isis]

Nahdia, what's your read of Dannflor?

[Isis]

beeboy
Jangle
GeorgeBailey

How do people muster the will to vote Hectic out of games

[Isis]

I cannot really verbalize why I feel that way at this time does someone wanna help me out here

I think this too, but maybe a different reason? I think scum would assume most people are telling the truth.

Thus having no reason to question an assertion like that.

This is a solvey post and I recently discovered the new flavour for scum!George is being solvey. I'm onto you.

This is the newest thing in your iso about GeorgeBailey. He's near the bottom of your list. Why are you not talking about the most significant things more?

[Isis]

This has been kinda meh. I don't see a good different wagon that works well enough. I was dreaming about a Dannflor flashwagon but that doesn't seem realistic if you townread him. If you're town maybe I can deadsheep you.

Hectic tell me your fear, for the gamethrow energies, I'm gonna hammer. Is it boo?

[Isis]

beeboy is

aggressively indecisive

[Isis]

VOTE: Aristophanes

I'm gonna fall asleep at some point in the next X hours and not be around until deadline
until then I am here.

I'm probably gonna sleep through fear stories on whoever the final decision is

[Isis]

Nahdia will be up continuously until deadline telling 1001 stories

[Isis]

I am going to go to sleep within the next two hours. I am sleepy

I approve of elongating d1 for antiwincon fear discussion sidequests.

[Isis]

terll me about hm
ou have 14 minutse

[Isis]

[Isis]

Your chart doesn't interpret 866 in the manner I intended

Counting out the possibilities hurts my head a little bit but it seems like some kind of widespread claiming is probably optimal

[Isis]

I feel like I am townreading setup spec against those rules about how scum can do it just as easily so you shouldn't


my head drove in circles about no-exile some but I think my overall conclusion is that it might or might not be mechanically slightly better but going down that route would be detrimental enough to dayplay to not be worth it.

[Isis]

my intuition is it doesn't actually matter, you still make the scummiest people go first in massclaim like any other massclaim. re: "fearless" players

[Isis]

Claim swapping is risky since the team gets stapled together. I don't think it makes Nahdia's plan wrong since it's just offering an available tradeoff, not a free gift.

I think almost all the worlds where we win this game are the ones where we hit red today, and in that one they did the math that massclaiming never moves the loss day forward at all (or like to the extent that it does it's because we were carrying out town-controlled kills so git gud etc)

[Isis]

I don't think it like halves our chances to win if we don't massclaim or anything though.

[Isis]

I feel less sure about my townreads after seeing two people I thought were supposed to have scum equity die.

On the other side my most substantive scumread left is feeling pinged by Dannflor's role in late day 1.

pedit: mass shoot one person isn't as good as shooting several people because like you can hit both scum and compensate for the scum unloading 1-2 fear kills that night.
Assuming we've massclaimed

[Isis]

I'm pretty willing to play the game a bit more humbly at this point Dann, for Reasons

I am hoping to sort more today

I kind of like your posting so far today for some reason

[Isis]

If we solve the game the mechanics don't matter.

By we I mean I want all of you to solve the game and I will take credit in post game

[Isis]

On review.

2-4
Lynch Correctly
1-4
Scum kill me
Scum night kill
1-2

We don't want to shoot tonight do we?

But if you think about it a different way
The shot might lose you an elim. But the shot

is

an elim, it's a town-controlled kill.
But sometimes the shot doesn't lose you an elim because the last scum was the one who knew how to kill Aristophanes or something.
So you do wanna shoot tonight

[Isis]

Getting me to solve the game hasn't been working out so far.
Not sure why we would keep doing that.

Also if Dann/Hectic kills me and I kill town at night.
Then we lose. Which is a loss that involves the conensus potentially being correct.

Yeah I was gonna say I want "all of you except beeboy" to solve the game but I didn't wanna be tocsik

[Isis]

I have a headache. Not like metaphor oh this game is hard it gives me headaches I have a headache and stomachache and they're rare for me.

[Isis]

I explained my GB townread it just probably didn't seem very salient because it was pretty gutty.

I definitely was not townreading him because of "scum always push the lurkers" tinfoil or whatever. It was a couple early posts that townpinged me.

[Isis]

Dannflor did you consider in your NKA that scum might have mistakenly thought the UTRs were good fear guesses?

[Isis]

I don't feel the same way, I'll talk about why I did then and don't now tomorrow I should sleep this off

[Isis]

Throwing energy: I get townpings from 248 and don't get them from 282 and I don't know why.

For some reason I always get strong impressions off choice short posts from GeorgeBailey.

This is the more important one I cared to find. Like I said it was gutty and not super salient. The post seemed difficult enough to manufacture and requiring a mindset of playing for town equity and knowing we tossed a little bit out but not too much and it's ok and funny.

He hasn't like, kept it up though, and he tricked me with categorically similar posting early in achievement mafia, where as that game went on he stopped pinging me at all, which in a way is a similar pattern to here. I like to think I'm smart and do better than random picking apart little posts like that so I'm still counting it on the scorecard on but not so much better than random that I want to ignore everything else.

It's suspicious that I'm alive, and since I was the only (?) one townreading him yesterday that could be why.

I don't really like that he claimed but I need to try to separate people playing mafia the way I think they ought to play it versus actions that are actually scummy.

[Isis]

Hectic and I and beeboy all have Isis as our top town

which makes me feel like I shouldn't waste energy reconsidering that read

I probably will at some point anyway but I feel like that's a good sign probably

Why didn't you list Nahdia here?

If you're listing the reads you care about the most because they're from people you townread, then beeboy should fail to make the list?

[Isis]

a bit, yeah. right now im leaning towards gbailey. sorry im not being more thorough, big sad this weekend. ill try and give some substantial content later today.

I'm sorry to hear you're feeling down, warm vibes to you Nahdia.

[Isis]

I think a Hectic Dannflor team makes sense but I'm afraid of being called stupid

[Isis]

I feel like this game might be like Resoivoir dogs where if I pay enough attention to what's been played I can at

least

figure out two possible teams which like doubles the chance to win I still lost anyway but the chance to win was doubled.
This game has like, a similar texture.

[Isis]

Dann + Hectic and Dann + GeorgeBailey both make sense because Dann has been trying to open up the exile pool today but if Dann is paired with Nahdia or beeboy I think that conduct makes less sense

[Isis]

omg I'm doing preflip assocs popsofctown would hate me


i am a reincarnated being though
I read a bunch of my really old posts half a week ago and I used to be super toxic. Somehow I've changed

[Isis]

Nahdia was very skimmy as scum in Why Gun iirc

[Isis]

It's suspicious that I'm alive, and since I was the only (?) one townreading him yesterday that could be why.

I feel like if Hectic/Dannflor was scum we kill u

but that's the type of WIFOM NKA you probably don't wanna hear from me

Hectic has never killed me in a mafia game and it's probably because I usually townread his tone. I wouldn't expect him to nightkill me here.
I'm pretty confused why this isn't "If it was Dannflor/Hectic we just kill beeboy" since beeboy was obviously much harsher on the pressure point of that team and it makes me feel like you're giving me the standard scum quip instead of thinking about it.

Do you find Hectic scummy or just not town enough?

Hearing his weird GB progression was what made me willing to hammer yesterday. beeboy's unvote yesterday was weird and I think when beeboy's alignment becomes an open question they're never partners. I kind of like how Hectic is approaching this phase.

[Isis]

beeboy seemed like he wanted Hectic and GeorgeBailey in either order as the next steps in the game.
I wanted you, but no one else seemed into that.
He did townread you but it depends on whether you would do a kill that helps more for solo wins or sweeps. I thought you seemed like a pretty collaborative/cooperative scum in apoc.
In fairness it doesn't seem crazy for two different people to get two different impressions of how beeboy was reading Aristophanes and Hectic (and GeorgeBailey?) because he bounced all over the place with it.

[Isis]

I don't think I town read either Hectic or Ari.
Frankly I scum read both of them.

But I just don't feel good about lynching either of them because I kind of have fuck all that points towards either being more likely to be scum then the other.

[Isis]

collaborative/cooperative scum in apoc.

shoot: bugspray

I get the joke but compromising on a nightkill choice seems pretty different to me.

[Isis]

I'm getting wrapped up in a dumb discussion

the surveys made a bunch of novel considerations for the NK which is a yellow flag on something that's already difficult to use consistently accurately

It's better to focus on who is scummiest and I don't even necessarily think that's you and Hectic it just kind of fits in one or two ways.

[Isis]

GeorgeBailey/beeboy
and
Dannflor/Hectic

seem like two solves that I like

[Isis]

The only reason I didn't make a team for Nahdia is because I'm townreading them but I should probably either stop or figure out a way to wrap that feeling in words

[Isis]

My scumpool is [GeorgeBailey, Nahdia, beeboy]. I still townread Isis and Dann.

I like Nahdia better for coming out today continuing to push Dann over the easier pushes of me/George, considering it's likely mylo.
George has come out today how I'd expect him to if he's scum. Explain why you think I'm scum pls, George.

This was pretty mindmeldy in terms of the Nahdia townread and also generally having a broad number of people that might be scum.

[Isis]

There was also the setup spec that I'm ashamed of townreading people for can everyone say they think it's optimal to lie about your fears as town in this setup so everyone gets reset and I stop biasing please

[Isis]

I think if we decide beeboy is town we should finish massclaiming fears cause I think beeboy is the only one who would actually do claimswaps.

[Isis]

I wish GeorgeBailey was posting!

[Isis]

GeorgeBailey!

[Isis]

Do you townread anyone?

[Isis]

could you explain better how Hectic's explanation changed your mind at all because like he just said he naturally prefers a compromise wagon to dying which is kind of obvious, is there something about the way he said it or something?

[Isis]

I think a lot of reads I make in mafia are for reasons that aren't right but are adjacent to something that's right.
If you find the scum with it the scum get really cranky then kind of out themselves.
Crumbpushing little scumpings is better for that reason but I can't find any.
I liked the way Chara responded to me even though I didn't see its response till my third reskim of this game; I keep skipping posts a lot somehow

There's a leaked track Taylor Swift's studio didn't allow her to release on page 3 and a similar single of Ariana Grande's on page 2

OKAY THAT WAS CHEAP!

For the record, I was

pretty sure

you were lying but I read the two pages thoroughly just to be sure!
And there was a YOUTUBE VIDEO on page 2 and I gor excited and it was just THE GODDAMNED WHO and I have never been more disappointed to see them!

Uhh, I got a scumread on the Melanque (Dannflor?) slot from that read.
Thanks actually.
Even if I'm bitter

This is the best thing I've ever done.

Also I'm going to follow you around the forums and undercut any of your praise of Taylor Swift with "but

Ari

likes

Ari

ana Grande better", because apparently

Want to wagon Dannflor with me?

This might sound dumb but Ari is a bit ahead of rand to be town because he read only one page of content and got a scumread.
But he wasn't reading to produce content for the thread, he was reading to find a taylor swift song. Scum are less likely than town to develop scumreads off of posts spontaneously (scum have chance to just stumble on wow this looks so pushable, but it's just less than wow i need a tinfoil hat). When you roll scum you bring your content amount to the same place by rereading more and reading with intent

It hinges on whether Ari would misrepresent his attitude towards the intent of his reading but that part doesn't seem faked.

nvm I think Billy is town and that was a fine post actually

Man your pivots are kinda giving me whiplash.

Really didn't like this post. There's like a missing curiosity about Dann's alignment

Busy, sorry friends.
Final team call is Nahdia and GeorgeBailey.

I intend to be a sheep to my town reads this phase though. If that leads to the demise of myself and as a result town then I guess better luck next time.

We have 5 days left, why the finality?

[Isis]

I didnt mean to.

[Isis]

I'm gonna catchup after breakfast but before breakfast I want to ask what nahdia thinks about Dannflor/hectic cause I was thinking about this game and realized I only got opinions from !scum
I'll probably be back soon anyway though

[Isis]

I am giving Isis way too much space, but to some degree everyone is and I still really like my day 1 read.

I've never heard the "giving space" idiom before and then Dann also uses is it later. I don't know if it is supposed to convey paranoia or wrongness, it seems like a weird phrase to me.
It reminds me of this meme

Spoiler:

so then it makes me feel like no one wants me to be as happy as a pair of grown men with a new bunk bed .

why did you do the whole "im gonna die here's my fear"

I didn't factor in a lot of things when doing that, I just react negatively to pressure because I am a bad mafia player.

I just wanted to know if I was going to die and curiosity got the better of me.
I agree that at worst that was scummy and at best an action that helps me as no alignment.

I don't like this. It's possible to townread antitown play in the right situations.
Like this is a super bizarre thing we all want to make sense of, a player asking people not to claim for optimal mechanical play, then blurting a roleclaim in response to pressure from a singular player.
"welp it was either scummy or NAI I agree you'll have to guess" seems like throwing a smokebomb and running.
You didn't answer what "I wanted to know if I am going to die" means which someone asked later but like it could have been obvious how it didn't make sense from the start. Dann hasn't claimed his role, so if you're saying Dann's case makes you think he always shoots at you, like is the implication that you were also rolefishing Dann wanting him to claim The Dark and sing about soon shooting you like he's Captain Hammer? That's even further out of character for someone mechanically straightlaced.

beeboy's day 1 was still towny. I think the Ari dive thing was towny but it's for slightly different reasons about execution; I think Dann is going to lose to scums like Purgatory!Ame if he doesn't hone a little more. Not digging up anything doesn't matter to me, the indecision about diving matters to me, like I said d1.
I don't think I want to exile beeboy d2 I think I want to figure out his partner first if that's what I decide on. But beeboy's attitude towards the lolclaim actually seems a lot scummier than the claim itself to me.

Isis ignored my pill question and I am very concerned.

I'll pick the blue and red one cause that's the preferred orb colors of Lively Healer Dragon Caller, Highren

Spoiler:

But I think his case against beeboy is very ????? Since it mostly assumes I'm scum while not showing why I'm scum at all.

At the time I was townreading Nahdia, Isis, and Hectic

You hadn't shown town. I didn't really do anymore work beyond that

Why were you townreading Nahdia? Can you point to this?

[Isis]

I think on average GeorgeBailey would have more takes than he does right now, as town.
Townreading me shouldn't even count. Whoever the scum is is citing a townread on me because I'm not in the pool anyway. It's mysterious to me the difference between the games where I become a UTR and the ones I don't but I've apparently popped off here.

[Isis]

Also, for your who would I kill question......

Probably Nahdia. Now that I really think about it. Their push on me felt disingenuous.

This is what I'm thinking about in writing this

it's kind of the inverse of my towncase on aristophanes

"Now that I really think about it" has this feel like he needs prompting to develop reads.

[Isis]

I stated explicitly that beeboy's attitude towards the lolclaim is scummier than the lolclaim itself so like please read my posts? I thought it's pretty clear that I'm scumreading something entirely different from what you're projecting.

It's not scummy that he lolclaimed. I find the minimalist answer about his thought process in lolclaiming bad, it feels like locking us out of a black box so we can assume it's a town black box because as you correctly point out a lot of incidents like this can and should be sorted town. But it seems like he's not walking us through this being exactly one of those cases and instead is saying "lol I don't want to talk about it sorry for being scummy" hoping we just occam's razor into one of those green interpretations

You seem to have some kind of understanding of what "know I'm gonna die" means while hectic and I didn't really understand it so that might switch how locked out each of us feels I guess

[Isis]

Like a lot of beeboy's other play I have trouble sorting it town today but it doesn't fit what scum!him needs to be doing to win the game at a macro level so maybe I should just be doubling down on my d1 read

[Isis]

Don't you dare under any circumstances

[Isis]

viewtopic.php?p=11237878#p11237878

Hectic you may read this page of the game.

As for the other pages of the game you may read, you may not read any of the other pages of the game.

[Isis]

popsofctown is trash.

Hoping to hear from Nahdia and beeboy soon.

[Isis]

Nahdia look!
Dannflor look
Hectic look
beeboy look
GeorgeBailey look
Jingle look
she came out today
she's here
look!
looklooklooklook