Micro 4 - Double Day Unlimited (Over)

[Om of the Nom]

It's actually rather comfortable up here.
But still, nice way to avoid giving reasons.

[N]

Don't give me that shit, when the total of your reasoning is:

@Om

- Reads now please.

Welp, after recent developments IceGuy is scum.
You are town.
I am leaning scum on Kcda due to gut.
Fate is probably town.
Yos is probably town.
Not sure on the rest.

and

Shit man, IceGuy is being pretty convincing.
I agree with a lot of his Jarvis case, but I'd rather see a reaction from Jarvis before I vote.
I was actually a little weary of Yos earlier. IceGuy just convinced me further of that read.
VOTE: Yosarian2

N parking his vote on ABR for shit reasons is pretty bad considering the amount of content already in the game.
Who do you think is scum and why?

"Hurrr, here are some names and not what I think of them or why" and "I like IceGuy; he smells nice."

[ChaosOmega]

Vote Count 1.1.05

Jarvis (4) - Fate, UberNinja, Albert B. Rampage, IceGuy
N (4) - Jarvis, UberNinja, Fate, IceGuy
IceGuy (4) - Kcdaspot, UberNinja, Yosarian2, Albert B. Rampage
Yosarian2 (3) - UberNinja, IceGuy, Om of the Nom
Om of the Nom (3) - Jarvis, UberNinja, Fate
Albert B. Rampage (3) - Kcdaspot, UberNinja, N
Fate (1) - UberNinja
UberNinja (1) - Albert B. Rampage
Kcdaspot (1) - Fate

Not Voting (0)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Still searching for a replacement for UberNinja.

Deadline

~9 days and 21.5 hours

[Om of the Nom]

Well, I can give more reasons if you want.
Like so:
My Kcda gut scumread is probably to do with his meta and the fact that I'm not getting the same feeling I am from his posts than I was in another game I played where he was town.
The Jarvis townread at that time was because he was being rather active and asking lots of questions which is a pro-town thing.
The Yos town read at that time came from the fact that my gut was calling him town.
The IceGuy scumread came from how he was being largely unhelpful at the time, as was already addressed by like everyone by then.

The current Jarvis scumread comes from what IceGuy said as I explained earlier. The same thing is with my Yos read too, although with Yos I was a little suspicious beforehand, mainly from how I felt nothing really game related from his posts (kinda like what IceGuy was getting at).
IceGuy is obvtown to me now, though I could be putting a bit too much stock into this because his ass is rather nice to live in.
ABR hasn't done too much yet, but I'd rather wait a bit longer before making any further decisions on him.

And lastly, N is someone who has been bordering on a scumread with me since like page 3 or something, but he hasn't really left null-territory just yet. I feel N isn't really following through with a lot of his attacks (like his attacks on me right now, it looks like they constitute a legit scumread on me, yet I don't see a vote on me or a reason for not having a vote on me right now). Plus he is being a tad bit opportunistic in some of his votes.

Is this what you were after?

[N]

Is that all you wanted? I thought you were looking for something a lot more in depth than that, which I don't have.

Okay, I think both you and kcda are town because you were mucking around a lot at the start of the game. I know this is a pretty crappy reason, and I'm projecting my own feelings from the start of the game: not having anything in particular to do and waiting for someone to make a slip-up. I honestly think if I put a vote on you, it would be a waste.

Jarvis and Yos: I'm thinking town, because although they've been aggressive, they've listened to reasons from other players and taken those on board. And I guess another positive is that they haven't just steamrolled their way to a lynching, even though they've had plenty of opportunities.

UberNinja is replacing out, which is I feel not something he'd do as mafia. He gives off the vibe of someone who would rather be in control of a situation and is struggling with not having that control.

Who does that leave? Um... IceGuy, Albert and Fate. IceGuy leans town, as you agree, although I'm not as confident on him. Albert I've already voted for because out of his three posts, two contain votes and little else. So... Fate... their post count is quite high, but that's mainly because they are all one-liners.

Wait, that's only 8. I'm missing someone.

Oh, myself. I can understand my posts are a bit all over the place, but this is my first game. (I'm still waiting for my newbie to start...) I know newbieness shouldn't be a get out of jail free card, but I've been honest in all my posts.

You asked me I haven't voted for you, and I put the question back to you. Questioning/attacking someone doesn't equal thinking they're scum.

[Om of the Nom]

No, I personally have trouble elaborating myself, so I'm not expecting you to go completely in-depth. Just explain your reasons a little more, and possibly give a few more reasons if applicable.
You shouldn't judge pro-towniness by post count alone. Otherwise with this post I'm the towniest tied with Fate.
What do you think of the fact that I've moved on from RVS shennanigans but Kcda hasn't really yet?
Didn't you ever think that Jarvis and Yos could just be waiting for a better moment to lynch a player so they don't look suspicious later on in the game?
I agree with what you say about UN. He certainly is the type of player who loves to dominate the game, so his replacing out in that manner does strike me as town-UN.
Why exactly does IceGuy lean town to you?
Do you think the "content" in Albert's posts are coming from town or scum?
If Fate's posts are supposedly full of one-liners, is he town or scum?
I'll be nicer to you then, considering this is your first game. Though tbh you're playing rather decently so far.
I never said you have to think I'm scum. I just said that what you're attacking me for could make for a legitimate case on me, and I haven't seen a reason for you not to be voting for me yet (though I guess you kinda did address it earlier in your post just then).

[Jarvis]

I plan on hammering IceGuy as soon as we get a replacement for UN. Or maybe sooner, we'll see.

Okay, experiment over.

Because look at this. ANOTHER EXPERIMENT LOLOLOL

Please explain the purpose and method of this grand experiment.

ABR and OmNom are leaning town.

Yep, still need to explain your reads.

Jarvis is scum. #25, #28, #40, #56 are a good example of how to simulate scumhunting: You don't look for scummy things, you decide on an easy target (in that case, OmNom and UberNinja as people who often get lynched early and N as a newbie), take something they do that's actually innocuous (voting everybody and saying "scum is in there" is not a scumslip, just as not having scumreads in a game with mostly random stuff happening by the start of page 2 isn't).

I've never played with Om before - at least not to my memory, which I'm pretty confident in. Also lol you're trying to say I attacked UN. I asked him

one question

. All of that is just a narrative anyway; "you're not attacking them because you think they're scum, you're attacking them because they're easy to lynch". Do you actually have anything to support that, or is it just "look at these posts, he's doing this"?

And yeah, please do explain to me the town motive for self-voting in RVS. Because that's what I'm not seeing, and what I've questioned.

Also lol you're voting N too.

I don't recall ever saying it was a scumslip. What I don't see, as mentioned above, is why town would self-vote there. Perhaps you could enlighten me, seeing as you're so sure it isn't indicative at all.

And of course he immediately switched to me when he noticed I was at L-1 and could probably get away with a hammer. I've already said why the "sneaky" L-1 vote wasn't "sneaky" - L-1 wasn't declared in this game before and my L-1 vote wasn't the first. The rest is basically pointless back-and-forth.

Again the narrative bullshit. I declared intent to hammer because you were refusing to explain yourself  and stalling to high hell.

AND WHAT'S THIS? "My silent L-1 vote wasn't so because two people did it before". How the fuck is this town behaviour?

And I've responded to that already so.

Explain this to me, IceGuy. Why were you happy to sit around and stall while someone you apparently had such a confident scumread on threatened to hammer?

And why exactly it took you five hours to come in and post that.

Oh, and of course why you felt it was unnecessary to announce your L-1 vote this time?

Shit man, IceGuy is being pretty convincing.
I agree with a lot of his Jarvis case, but I'd rather see a reaction from Jarvis before I vote.

NICE U-TURN YOU GOT THERE

Fate...
You're too predictable...
I knew you would vote me for that.

lolself-awarescum

IceGuy is obvtown to me now

This really needs explanation.

I like N a whole lot more given these recent posts. Like way more. There's still stuff that needs addressing by him though.

UNVOTE: N
VOTE: Kcdaspot

What are you actually doing?

[Om of the Nom]

If you hammer IceGuy and he flips town, I won't hesitate to hammer you.
However, if he flips scum, I will have to do some work with finding connections between people.

[Fate]

Omnom knew I would vote him for that because he knows I am town and is SELFCONSCIOUS OF HIS PLAY. This is autoscumm behavior. Lynch now

[Om of the Nom]

I knew you would use that reasoning too.
Fate, stop trying to hide how predictable you are.

I am always self-conscious of my play. I love to be the townieobvtown in the game :D
But like, if I knew you would vote me for it, why would I have said it? I realise this borders into WIFOM territory, but please, do give your best explanation.

[IceGuy]

I plan on hammering IceGuy as soon as we get a replacement for UN.

Well, I guess you do not like your mislynch floating away.

Because look at this. ANOTHER EXPERIMENT LOLOLOL

Please explain the purpose and method of this grand experiment.

Method: Behaving in an extremely non-useful yet clearly non-scummy way.
Purpose: Catching people like you trying to get a mislynch through instead of scumhunting.

Yep, still need to explain your reads.

Not explaining town reads unless absolutely necessary. Explaining town reads gives scum clues how to behave in a towny way.

I've never played with Om before - at least not to my memory, which I'm pretty confident in.

Which is irrelevant. I think I've already played with OmNom but it's not easy to miss his reputation if you're often around the site.

Also lol you're trying to say I attacked UN. I asked him

one question

. All of that is just a narrative anyway; "you're not attacking them because you think they're scum, you're attacking them because they're easy to lynch". Do you actually have anything to support that, or is it just "look at these posts, he's doing this"?

Nice spin. I have your posts to support that.

And yeah, please do explain to me the town motive for self-voting in RVS. Because that's what I'm not seeing, and what I've questioned.

Explain to me the scum motive for voting every player including oneself in RVS.

Also lol you're voting N too.

Yes, but for a different reason. Having unlimited votes means voting every scumread instead of just the top one. Why are you not voting N (any more)?

I don't recall ever saying it was a scumslip. What I don't see, as mentioned above, is why town would self-vote there. Perhaps you could enlighten me, seeing as you're so sure it isn't indicative at all.

It's not indicative of alignment. Period. You blowing it up as something that could be relevant at all is not towny behavior.

Again the narrative bullshit. I declared intent to hammer because you were refusing to explain yourself  and stalling to high hell.

Explain what the scum motivation behind that would've been. I've explained the town motivation behind it; you've failed to explain the scum motivation.

AND WHAT'S THIS? "My silent L-1 vote wasn't so because two people did it before". How the fuck is this town behaviour?

Why is it not town behavior to vote scum? Do you think every L-1 vote needs a big, fat "L-1" for idiots who can't read VCs, especially in a game where there are a lot of L-1s (as of now, there are three players on L-1)?

Explain this to me, IceGuy. Why were you happy to sit around and stall while someone you apparently had such a confident scumread on threatened to hammer?

Your continued reaction to my experiment only made me confident in my scum read.

And why exactly it took you five hours to come in and post that.

I posted the first post in the morning right after getting up and revisited it later, thinking I should probably not play this any longer or I'd really get lynched.

Oh, and of course why you felt it was unnecessary to announce your L-1 vote this time?

Why do you feel is it necessary to announce L-1 votes?

Also, you attacking OmNom is a continuation of your opportunistic behavior.

[N]

How does the double-lynch work? Does the first lynch happen ASAP (and the lynchee can't talk anymore), or do they both happen at the same time (and the first person hammered can talk until the end of the day (when second person is also lynched))?

Also, I just want to put it out there that I have no intentions of hammering anyone at this time. Make of that what you will.

I'll be nicer to you then, considering this is your first game. Though tbh you're playing rather decently so far.

This is why I didn't want to play the newbie card. It was my decision to sign up for a non-newbie game; I don't want to drag it down to newbie level for the rest of you.

[Om of the Nom]

No, playing the newbie card makes me go easier on you if you don't exactly understand things.
I can still attack with full force if I need to.

[Om of the Nom]

I've never played with Om before - at least not to my memory, which I'm pretty confident in.

Which is irrelevant. I think I've already played with OmNom but it's not easy to miss his reputation if you're often around the site.

Yes, we have played together, in a game where I got NK'ed on N2 for doing basically nothing lol.

[ChaosOmega]

How does the double-lynch work? Does the first lynch happen ASAP (and the lynchee can't talk anymore), or do they both happen at the same time (and the first person hammered can talk until the end of the day (when second person is also lynched))?

Once someone receives the requisite number of votes for a lynch, the lynch is immediate. The vote count clears, and they can talk in thread until I post the lynch scene with their alignment revealed and the day continues.

[Albert B. Rampage]

V/LA until Friday

[Fate]

I knew you would use that reasoning too.
Fate, stop trying to hide how predictable you are.

I am always self-conscious of my play. I love to be the townieobvtown in the game
But like, if I knew you would vote me for it, why would I have said it? I realise this borders into WIFOM territory, but please, do give your best explanation.

Still reinforcing my point you have the pre-existing knowledge that I am town.

No way you'd be arrogant enough to think you'd have read me right D1.

Why isn't this guy run up yet? ABR dont fuckin v/la without voting scum

[Jarvis]

Om and IceGuy are today's lynches thank you goodnight.

If you hammer IceGuy and he flips town, I won't hesitate to hammer you.

k.

Method: Behaving in an extremely non-useful yet clearly non-scummy way.
Purpose: Catching people like you trying to get a mislynch through instead of scumhunting.

Clearly non-scummy? Yeah, please do elaborate on that one for me. I'm really not seeing it.

Not explaining town reads unless absolutely necessary. Explaining town reads gives scum clues how to behave in a towny way.

Any scum with the slightest idea about how to win at mafia knows how too "behave in a towny way". They don't need clues. So explain.

Which is irrelevant. I think I've already played with OmNom but it's not easy to miss his reputation if you're often around the site.

Do you see me often around the site?

Nice spin. I have your posts to support that.

If you're still trying to suggest I was attacking UN, you can go and read those posts you have.

But yeah, go on, get those posts and support it.

Explain to me the scum motive for voting every player including oneself in RVS.

Avoids taking a stance on any single player. Thus avoids being held accountable for anything, and avoids attracting anyone's attention in particular.

Yes, but for a different reason. Having unlimited votes means voting every scumread instead of just the top one. Why are you not voting N (any more)? 

BUT THE REASON DOESN'T MATTER YOU'RE VOTING HIM BECAUSE HE'S NEW OBV

Anyway.

"I like N a whole lot more given these recent posts. Like way more. There's still stuff that needs addressing by him though."

It's not indicative of alignment. Period. You blowing it up as something that could be relevant at all is not towny behavior.

Not what I asked.

Explain what the scum motivation behind that would've been. I've explained the town motivation behind it; you've failed to explain the scum motivation.

Explain what the scum motivation behind that would've been. I've explained the town motivation behind it; you've failed to explain the scum motivation.

I'd have thought it was obvious. You know, you've pulled a bunch of reads out of your arse and can't explain them. Or you're just trying to look town. Or you found yourself at L-1 with intent to hammer declared and REACTION TEST was your only realistic way out.

I don't know, since when was it necessary to explain why scum do what they do? That just opens the door to all sorts of shitty narrative-based reasoning.

Why is it not town behavior to vote scum? Do you think every L-1 vote needs a big, fat "L-1" for idiots who can't read VCs, especially in a game where there are a lot of L-1s (as of now, there are three players on L-1)?

Why do you feel is it necessary to announce L-1 votes?

It's not town behaviour to respond to questions with "I didn't do it because these other people didn't either". There is no way that comes from a town mouth.

The unlimited voting has the side effect of making votes a hell of a lot harder to keep track of. Not being someone who likes accidental quickhammers, I'd prefer it if we avoided that possibility. It's not like it's hard to do - unless you're

an idiot who can't read vote counts

.

Your continued reaction to my experiment only made me confident in my scum read.

At which point, then, were you sure about your scum read? And why did you continue then?

Because your explanation of your scumread suggests you were pretty sure I was scum before you even began your 'experiment'.

I posted the first post in the morning right after getting up and revisited it later, thinking I should probably not play this any longer or I'd really get lynched.

You didn't worry that from the very start? You know, after I declared intent to hammer?

Why didn't you post it earlier - nothing changed between your two posts...?

Also, you attacking OmNom is a continuation of your opportunistic behavior.

Oh it's for opportunism now is it? Because well... That's pretty opportunistic of you, seeing as there's at least one other player you could

easily

fit this description to.

[Yosarian2]

@Om

- Reads now please.

Welp, after recent developments IceGuy is scum.
You are town.
I am leaning scum on Kcda due to gut.
Fate is probably town.
Yos is probably town.
Not sure on the rest.

Shit man, IceGuy is being pretty convincing.
I agree with a lot of his Jarvis case, but I'd rather see a reaction from Jarvis before I vote.
I was actually a little weary of Yos earlier. IceGuy just convinced me further of that read.
VOTE: Yosarian2

N parking his vote on ABR for shit reasons is pretty bad considering the amount of content already in the game.
Who do you think is scum and why?

This is almost too easy...

VOTE: Om of the Nom

Yeah, agreed.

vote:om[/n]

Scum = iceguy and om

That whole "ok experiment over" thing iceguy did was bullshit as well

[Yosarian2]

typo

vote: om of the nom

[Om of the Nom]

Lol.
I'd love to see everyone's reactions when I flip town.
Where will you all stand on your IceGuy read if I flip town?
(postan from school)

[Om of the Nom]

No way you'd be arrogant enough to think you'd have read me right D1.

Are you serious?
Calling me not arrogant enough?
Bitch please, get to know my meta more.

Also I don't even have a complete read on you yet. Right now I'm wondering if you're playing bad or scum.

(back from school)

[Om of the Nom]

Since a lot of you guys are clueless on how I play, I'm going to be nice and give you some of my meta.

Scum:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=22365 (won, 5p Vengeful. Lynched buddy D1 and survived till endgame)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=22421 (lost, lynched D2)

Town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=22693 (lost, also I was teaching someone in a teaching hydra, so I was focusing on that a bit more than I was on playing normally)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=21960 (lost)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=21788 (lost)

[IceGuy]

Om and IceGuy are today's lynches thank you goodnight.

Still trying to get your mislynches through, I see.

Clearly non-scummy? Yeah, please do elaborate on that one for me. I'm really not seeing it.

Why wouldn't scum have simply answered the questions/responded to the pressure and ended the whole back-and-forth?

Bolded for importance.

Any scum with the slightest idea about how to win at mafia knows how too "behave in a towny way". They don't need clues. So explain.

No. You either have no clue how mafia works or you're scum. My bet is on the latter.

Do you see me often around the site?

Often enough to possibly know about OmNom's reputation.

But yeah, go on, get those posts and support it.

I already mentioned them above.

Avoids taking a stance on any single player. Thus avoids being held accountable for anything, and avoids attracting anyone's attention in particular.

Nobody takes a stance in RVS, that's why it's RVS. RVS-based reasoning is generally shitty. Try again.

"I like N a whole lot more given these recent posts. Like way more. There's still stuff that needs addressing by him though."

So what you're trying to say is, "The most likely mislynches for today are you and OmNom, not N, so I'm dropping it quietly for now and will return to it tomorrow."

I'd have thought it was obvious. You know, you've pulled a bunch of reads out of your arse and can't explain them. Or you're just trying to look town. Or you found yourself at L-1 with intent to hammer declared and REACTION TEST was your only realistic way out.

See above: Why would I have even let it come to this if I was scum?

I don't know, since when was it necessary to explain why scum do what they do?

Since the game of Mafia was invented. Or are you claiming that you aren't actually interested in the alignment of players and are just looking for things that you can spin as scummy?

It's not town behaviour to respond to questions with "I didn't do it because these other people didn't either". There is no way that comes from a town mouth.

Of course that's relevant - somebody else does it, you say nothing, your designated mislynch does it, you claim it's definitely scummy behavior. That's something that needs to be called out.

The unlimited voting has the side effect of making votes a hell of a lot harder to keep track of. Not being someone who likes accidental quickhammers, I'd prefer it if we avoided that possibility. It's not like it's hard to do - unless you're

an idiot who can't read vote counts

.

So why didn't you request L-1 announcements in your first post if they are so important for you?

At which point, then, were you sure about your scum read? And why did you continue then?

Because your explanation of your scumread suggests you were pretty sure I was scum before you even began your 'experiment'.

I wasn't sure - I had a suspicion. The back-and-forth made me sure.

You didn't worry that from the very start? You know, after I declared intent to hammer?

No, because I didn't think you'd like to draw the heat that comes with a hammer that early.

Why didn't you post it earlier - nothing changed between your two posts...?

Reading comprehension fail.

Oh it's for opportunism now is it? Because well... That's pretty opportunistic of you, seeing as there's at least one other player you could

easily

fit this description to.

You are on the two most opportunistic lynches today. What's your point?

Yeah, agreed.

vote:om[/n]

Scum = iceguy and om

That whole "ok experiment over" thing iceguy did was bullshit as well

No content from you? Just sheeping Jarvis?

[Om of the Nom]

Last time I saw Jarvis onsite was when he was playing in a game with Shadoweh I think.
That was around the time I had my first (and only) newbie game.