Micro 440: Triplicate Mafia - Game Over

[serrapaladin]

UNVOTE:

I think I'd probably rather lynch scripten between him and WP.

@zeb: how do you tell TvT and TvM apart?

Statistically, we may want to consider lynching via an intergroup pseudo-vote system, using FoSes or something.

[goodmorning]

Witness is probably the scum unless he can refute Scripten's points.

Scripten's points.

Scripten's points.

Scripten's points.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Scripten]

I think I'd probably rather lynch scripten between him and WP.

Fine.

Then fucking lynch me then lynch WP. You seriously think that bull was town-motivated?

@GM: Prove me wrong instead of being condescending, maybe?

Completely out-of-game, your dismissive, short-sighted tunneling seriously makes me not want to play mafia. Seriously.

[Zebulin]

UNVOTE:

I think I'd probably rather lynch scripten between him and WP.

@zeb: how do you tell TvT and TvM apart?

Statistically, we may want to consider lynching via an intergroup pseudo-vote system, using FoSes or something.

I think TvT arguments tend to be argued over semantics, with logical and precise reasoning on both sides over a point that was debatable in the first place (difference in play philosophy or NK analysis). TvM arguments tend to be all-out walls of text about hard evidence, and scum sometimes (hopefully) slips up in their fake argument. It's not a guaranteed system, but it's worked for all my games so far. The Witness vs Scripten argument is very wally and the posts contradict each other, so SOMEONE is lying.

[Not_Mafia]

Power

Hopkirk (0)-

Lucky2u (1)-

Hopkirk

goodmorning (0)-

Not Voting (2)-

Lucky2u, goodmorning

Wisdom

serrapaladin (0)-

Witness Protection (1)-

Scripten

Scripten (1)-

Witness Protection

Not Voting (1)-

serrapaladin

Courage

Zebulin (1)-

BBMolla

Perpetual Nonsense (0)-

BBMolla (1)-

Perpetual Nonsense

Not Voting (1)-

Zebulin

Deadline is in

(expired on 2015-02-09 20:00:00)

- Feb 9th 20:00 GMT

[Not_Mafia]

Lucky2u has been prodded. They must respond in thread within 24 hours or be replaced.

[goodmorning]

@GM: Prove me wrong instead of being condescending, maybe?

1. You have not made "points" about Witness. You've made one point.
2. That point is that suggesting one's group might be the all-Town group is only Scum-motivated.
3. Witness and I have pointed out a time when a townie said it, demonstrating that there are Town motivations for doing so and not only Scum motivations as you claim.

Completely out-of-game, your dismissive, short-sighted tunneling seriously makes me not want to play mafia. Seriously.

If I could lynch anyone right now, only one person, it would be Zeb. Not you.
I find it interesting that you're trying to guilt me into backing off of you though.

[Scripten]

Goodmorning:

You've been pushing me since page 1 to explain my vote. I have multiple times. It was an early game vote, but it was not RVS because I had reason to see WP's post as potentially scum-motivated. Do you really see (69) as a town reaction to being voted this early? It's pedantic, it ignores half of my ISO WHILE QUOTING IT, and, like your posts, it puts more weight on my vote than

I

did.

It's really frustrating because I think you're town, but 76 feels super dismissive of my play. (Apologies for losing my cool there, though. Was grumpy last night, but that was unwarranted in hindsight.) I feel like I'm bashing my head against a wall. I get the assertion that mentioning the all-town group came from town in another game and led to a mislynch. Doesn't mean there's no potential scum motivation, (Note that I have been pushing potential scum motivation while you and WP are pushing that I'm saying it's only scum-motivated - hence more frustration) and I'm not seeing scum in serrapaladin. Why would I change my vote unless I thought serra was scummier than WP?

[goodmorning]

I'm not really putting any weight on your vote but on the reasoning for it - and "potential Scum motivation" is a thing you keep saying but it doesn't make the action anything other than Null.

I never said you should change your vote.

[serrapaladin]

@gm: does his frustration read genuine to you?

[Witness Protection]

I think TvT arguments tend to be argued over semantics, with logical and precise reasoning on both sides over a point that was debatable in the first place (difference in play philosophy or NK analysis). TvM arguments tend to be all-out walls of text about hard evidence, and scum sometimes (hopefully) slips up in their fake argument. It's not a guaranteed system, but it's worked for all my games so far. The Witness vs Scripten argument is very wally and the posts contradict each other, so SOMEONE is lying.

Exactly. He keeps going on about how he's proven something, and I ask him every time to show his work that he says proves it, and he yells that he's already proven it.

Let's break it down. He says that me mentioning the all Town group makes me scum. He doesn't consider what was being said, he just jumped on the phrase "all Town group". I never said we were the all Town group. I said I wasn't voting until everyone in my group had posted.

As for this intent, what is it?

What

is it scum would get from tricking (?) his group into thinking it was the all Town group? Tricking both you and Serrapalidan into sacrificing yourselves because I was so generous as to call us all Town (before either of you had spoken) group?

He says I keep on about things, making it sound like I'm doing it, but I took all his posts and answered them in one post.

He refers to 42 as his proof, but it's either he read the info wrong, or he's scum. How is saying one thing, going on about something? He keeps stuffing straw in his strawman, so I'm betting scum.

I don't know Serrapalidan, I have read his ISO, it's completely null. There's just nothing there. But Scripten's intent, where he's playing bulldog with one small phrase, looks far worse. I'd like to hear more from Serrapalidan (is there something shorter I can call you?), where do you stand on things?

[Scripten]

I'm not really putting any weight on your vote but on the reasoning for it - and "potential Scum motivation" is a thing you keep saying but it doesn't make the action anything other than Null.

I never said you should change your vote.

Everyone does things that can be considered as being motivated from a town perspective as well as a scum perspective, sure. But that doesn't make actions with scum potential null. It makes them suspicious. You poke and prod at that player so that you can get a read on them when they do something that could potentially reveal them as scum.

That's why I voted WP. That's why I presented my vote as more than RVS. That's why I responded the way I did to his reaction to me keeping my vote on him even after his initial joking response to it. Notice how he's flippant about it at first, but when I show that my vote was slightly more than RVS, he pretty much exploded? Am I wrong in seeing that reaction as scummy?

@Serrapaladin: Why are you relying on GM to tell you what to think? I get that you have a town read on her (I do, too, atm) but you seem to be deferring to her because of it.

-P-Edit-

WP:

As for this intent, what is it?

What

is it scum would get from tricking (?) his group into thinking it was the all Town group? Tricking both you and Serrapalidan into sacrificing yourselves because I was so generous as to call us all Town (before either of you had spoken) group?

This is a misrep.

I never said you were trying to trick us into sacrificing ourselves. That's irrational. You're only pushing that because you saw it in an earlier Triplicate game.

I said that the scum motivation from asserting that you are part of the all-town group would be insurance for after a lynch. Say serrapaladin or myself flipped town. "Oh, well, that must mean that we're the all-town group. Hahaha, I was right. What a funny coincidence."

It's not strong, but it WAS ON PAGE 1. And since then, serrapaladin has not done anything that indicates that he is more likely to be scum than you. And you've been reacting more and more like scum the longer my vote is on you.

[goodmorning]

I said that the scum motivation from asserting that you are part of the all-town group would be insurance for after a lynch. Say serrapaladin or myself flipped town. "Oh, well, that must mean that we're the all-town group. Hahaha, I was right. What a funny coincidence."

This is way worse than anything I posted, because this reasoning assumes that everyone in this game is a complete and utter idiot.

[Witness Protection]

It's not strong, but it WAS ON PAGE 1. And since then, serrapaladin has not done anything that indicates that he is more likely to be scum than you. And you've been reacting more and more like scum the longer my vote is on you.

You keep misrepping the whole thing. You're the one blowing it up, then yelling that I' m doing it.

So you say that saying that was some long term plan thing. You think something said in RVS is actually going to have that large an effect, and that scum would rely on one statement for their entire play? You call me scum because I said "all Town", but you call me scummy because I defend myself from something I see as off the wall. That makes it a lot harder to Town read you. I just don't see how anyone taking something so null, and so steadfastly calling it scummy.

You admit it's on page 1, but then turn around and defend it by using Serrapalidan's play as

something

. If you weren't latched onto a phrase, maybe we could get more from him. His play's been so null. It isn't until recently (post wise) he's said anything of note.

@ Serrapalidan

Why should you be allowed to make it to Tomorrow? Please come out and give your opinion of what's happened so far. A little more than a short quip would be great.

[serrapaladin]

@Serrapaladin: Why are you relying on GM to tell you what to think? I get that you have a town read on her (I do, too, atm) but you seem to be deferring to her because of it.

I'm not, nor did I suggest I would defer to her opinion. I have an opinion on it and want to check if that lines up with hers. Asking this way around is much more likely to give useful results than me arguing my opinion and then asking if people agree.

is there something shorter I can call you?

serra or sp? though I don't get why you need to ask me this...

@ Serrapalidan Why should you be allowed to make it to Tomorrow? Please come out and give your opinion of what's happened so far. A little more than a short quip would be great.

Do you think my posts so far reflect a lack of engagement with the game?

Zeb could be town, actually. I think PN is more likely to be the scum in that group.

[Witness Protection]

Do you think my posts so far reflect a lack of engagement with the game?

Well, actually, yes. Your posts are short, and haven't said much at all until recently. It makes it hard to get a read from posts like your early ones. Your posts show your reading the game, and aware of what's going on in thread.

Your posting reminds me of Saki's play, and he's always a wildcard when I've played with him. I'd like to see more of you, I need to be reassured your not scum slipping under the radar.

[Witness Protection]

Zeb could be town, actually. I think PN is more likely to be the scum in that group.

We agree on Zeb, but what's scummy about PN? They play to their name, or at least they did in Bulba's game. I think they should be left alone just for their comedic act! But seriously, what have they done that's scummy?

Do you realize that Zeb is scum reading PN too?

After going over his ISO, I'd like to ask Zeb to explain his vote on PN. He said it was because BB answered better. What exactly did BB say? So far he's casted a couple of votes, and called a few slots Town, and a few scum. I'm asking because I don't see what gives you the Town read on BB.

[Scripten]

This is way worse than anything I posted, because this reasoning assumes that everyone in this game is a complete and utter idiot.

Obviously I was working from a bit of hyperbole, but still... you don't often see scum placing little things into their posts that are meant to slightly push the town to keep suspicion off of them?

You keep misrepping the whole thing. You're the one blowing it up, then yelling that I' m doing it.

From my PoV, your reaction to my vote was much more extreme than the seriousness of the vote warranted. Yes, I defended my vote to GM, but that doesn't make it any stronger in my mind than it was to begin with. It was the way you reacted that made my scumread stronger.

So you say that saying that was some long term plan thing. You think something said in RVS is actually going to have that large an effect, and that scum would rely on one statement for their entire play? You call me scum because I said "all Town", but you call me scummy because I defend myself from something I see as off the wall. That makes it a lot harder to Town read you. I just don't see how anyone taking something so null, and so steadfastly calling it scummy.

The action, your play at the time, was scummy to me. It is still possible that you are not scum, but I haven't seen any evidence that serrapaladin is yet, so my vote stayed on you.

It seems like you're pushing that I called you 100% certain scum because of something relatively small, when what I'm actually saying is that I think you are scum at the moment because your actions are scummier than serra's. (The small thing I picked out was what keyed me in, then your reaction to my vote on you made the read stronger.) I'm trying my best not to confbias, but your reaction, and especially your return vote, seems excessive and slightly panicky.

You admit it's on page 1, but then turn around and defend it by using Serrapalidan's play as

something

. If you weren't latched onto a phrase, maybe we could get more from him. His play's been so null. It isn't until recently (post wise) he's said anything of note.

This is a good point, actually.

I'm not, nor did I suggest I would defer to her opinion. I have an opinion on it and want to check if that lines up with hers. Asking this way around is much more likely to give useful results than me arguing my opinion and then asking if people agree.

The way your phrased your question to her makes it a lot easier for you to just go "yeah that" and not give us any of your own thoughts. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, other than that I would like to see more from you than GM right now, since she's been fairly active.

Zeb could be town, actually. I think PN is more likely to be the scum in that group.

This is... strange timing, considering I just made a light reference to you deferring to GM's scumhunting. Can you explain your townread of Zebulin?

Do you realize that Zeb is scum reading PN too?

How would this be a problem if serra thinks Zeb is town?

[serrapaladin]

Do you think my posts so far reflect a lack of engagement with the game?

Well, actually, yes. Your posts are short, and haven't said much at all until recently. It makes it hard to get a read from posts like your early ones. Your posts show your reading the game, and aware of what's going on in thread.

Your posting reminds me of Saki's play, and he's always a wildcard when I've played with him. I'd like to see more of you, I need to be reassured your not scum slipping under the radar.

:/

I said that the scum motivation from asserting that you are part of the all-town group would be insurance for after a lynch. Say serrapaladin or myself flipped town. "Oh, well, that must mean that we're the all-town group. Hahaha, I was right. What a funny coincidence."

This is way worse than anything I posted, because this reasoning assumes that everyone in this game is a complete and utter idiot.

Does it really? I could easily see scum subtly pushing the notion that their group is all town, if not as obviously as scrip suggests.

[serrapaladin]

So WP seems to be playing down the importance of detail and subtlety, which is lame.

The way your phrased your question to her makes it a lot easier for you to just go "yeah that" and not give us any of your own thoughts. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, other than that I would like to see more from you than GM right now, since she's been fairly active.

Then why not wait for it to play out and then call me out for sheeping gm's opinion?

This is... strange timing, considering I just made a light reference to you deferring to GM's scumhunting. Can you explain your townread of Zebulin?

It seems he actually thought about whether you v WP is TvT or TvM, in the context of his model.

[Scripten]

Then why not wait for it to play out and then call me out for sheeping gm's opinion?

Combination of impatience and overlooking the idea. Can't deny I should have done so.

It seems he actually thought about whether you v WP is TvT or TvM, in the context of his model.

Seems like an easy enough thing to fake as scum, but eh. Do you have interactive experience with Zeb?

[Lucky2u]

Sorry for my absence, catching up.

[Hopkirk]

Don't have time to post atm. I will be able to tomorrow.

[BBmolla]

Zeb could be town, actually. I think PN is more likely to be the scum in that group.

possible, his calm as fuck demeanor isn't what I expected.

Witness needs to be lynched.

I can't read Bert very well btw. I do feel he's fairly obvious as town though.

[Lucky2u]

Well this will be rather easy for me today. GM seems town enough that I can just

VOTE: hopkirk

It's not that I feel strongly about Hopkirk, We could be the town block sure but I agree that discussion of that doesn't really gain us anything.