Micro 621: Mafia in Rarefaction (Game Over)

[Ms Marangal]

If I were confident, I would be playing differently?

I would probably try and make up some bullshit on why you were scum, for one instead of resorting to just getting attacked and defending myself.

That point is also irrelevant, since I had expressed intent before I hammered. It didn't really mean anything to me

[RedCoyote]

I would probably try and make up some bullshit on why you were scum, for one instead of resorting to just getting attacked and defending myself.

Yeah, I've tried that tactic before, too. I don't blame you, you're sitting on the advantage. xyzzy has already said he's leaning toward voting me, so I'd do the same thing. Sit back and let the other person try hard so that I appear desperate.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 4.02

RedCoyote (1) - Ms Marangal
Ms Marangal (1) - RedCoyote

xyzzy (0)

Not Voting (1) -

Ms Marangal, RedCoyote,

xyzzy

The deadline is Saturday, August 20, 2016, at 3:30 AM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2016-08-20 03:30:00).[/area]

[shaddowez]

Yeah, I think I'm leaning RC, but I could be way off. I was leaning RM practically until I voted, sooooo there's that

[RachMarie]

LOL I am always so mislynchable

hopefully my new hydra with jiffy will help with that

[xyzzy]

about every 24 hours I begin to type up a post with my thoughts on this game in this thread and then I'm never able to fully work together a complete idea... part of me feels like RedCoyote is trying harder to win than anyone else, and I'm not necessarily opposed to the person trying hardest winning even if that means I lose, but my gut still says he's scum. I really need to just make a decision... I'm so indecisive and this is a difficult position to be in and dragging it out isn't helping.

[RachMarie]

hugs ♥ xyz I totally understand

yeah when is deadline?

[RachMarie]

ahh 3 days

[RedCoyote]

At the risk of further alienating xyzzy, I just want to add one other thing. It's really unfortunate that we're in this "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

I really dislike the fact that RedCoyote made no attempt to defend himself or say anything substantial about Ms Marangel.

RC kind of disappearing has me concerned.

...Cue 613...

I feel like a lot of RedCoyote's points can be summed up as "I had fewer scummy interactions with shotty/N_M" when really it feels like he's just had fewer interactions at all, which isn't great. I feel like some of the arguments regarding Ms Marangel's interactions with shotty/N_M are a little weak, and he even leans a lot on times when she wasn't explicitly interacting with him. I'm also really just not super into the idea of just giving a numerical score to how many scummy things people have done, because that's not very nuanced and leaves a lot of room for deliberately inserting flaws into the argument.

Yeah, I think I'm leaning RC

I just want to air my frustration before the game is over. There's nothing quite as perturbing as, "he's not posting, that's really scummy" and then "okay, you're posting, you're still scummy". I'm not trying to browbeat you into voting MM, but, it's like... I wish you'd have just either voted me earlier or been honest with me insomuch as it didn't really matter whether I was active or not. I can appreciate you're torn over the decision, xyzzy, but this really comes off as invalidating. There's clearly nothing I can change about feelings if that's what the game is going to boil down to. I don't know a way to make this post without it being seen as either manipulative or sore or both (which truly isn't my intention, I'm trying to be matter-of-fact), but this day could've been handled differently.

[shaddowez]

At the risk of further alienating xyzzy, I just want to add one other thing. It's really unfortunate that we're in this "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

I really dislike the fact that RedCoyote made no attempt to defend himself or say anything substantial about Ms Marangel.

RC kind of disappearing has me concerned.

...Cue 613...

I feel like a lot of RedCoyote's points can be summed up as "I had fewer scummy interactions with shotty/N_M" when really it feels like he's just had fewer interactions at all, which isn't great. I feel like some of the arguments regarding Ms Marangel's interactions with shotty/N_M are a little weak, and he even leans a lot on times when she wasn't explicitly interacting with him. I'm also really just not super into the idea of just giving a numerical score to how many scummy things people have done, because that's not very nuanced and leaves a lot of room for deliberately inserting flaws into the argument.

Yeah, I think I'm leaning RC

I just want to air my frustration before the game is over. There's nothing quite as perturbing as, "he's not posting, that's really scummy" and then "okay, you're posting, you're still scummy". I'm not trying to browbeat you into voting MM, but, it's like... I wish you'd have just either voted me earlier or been honest with me insomuch as it didn't really matter whether I was active or not. I can appreciate you're torn over the decision, xyzzy, but this really comes off as invalidating. There's clearly nothing I can change about feelings if that's what the game is going to boil down to. I don't know a way to make this post without it being seen as either manipulative or sore or both (which truly isn't my intention, I'm trying to be matter-of-fact), but this day could've been handled differently.

This post seems like it was mostly aimed at xyz, but since my posts were included I'm going to address it as well.

If you truly wanted this to be not-game related, why wouldn't you wait until game end to bring it up? The post just feels disingenuous in multiple ways (which I'll get to in a moment). If the frustration is actually real, I'm sorry that you feel that way. However, it is a game where only one of the remaining players actually knows that they're scum, so the rest of us are trying to determine that player based on interactions.

That being said, here are the problems I see with this post:
1) I can't speak for xyz, but on my end I will absolutely say there was no confbias - I've been reading and rereading for interactions and tells, and going back and forth between you and MM. Therefore, the "damned if I do, damned if I don't" mentality is completely bogus. The fact you weren't posting was concerning, but then I read what you wrote and made further judgments based on that. I didn't say "Oh, he showed up and posted now so he's still scum". Had your posts read as townie to me, I would have reversed my read.
2) You cherry picked the quotes you used. MM also posted in there, so her posts were used in determining reads as well. While ISOs are extremely useful, players do not exist in a vacuum.
3) I'm not sure how you can say in the same paragraph that you're airing frustration and don't want the post to come out as sore. As I said earlier, if this is real I'm sorry you feel that way, but that's like starting a sentence with "I don't mean to offend you, but..."

[RedCoyote]

If you truly wanted this to be not-game related, why wouldn't you wait until game end to bring it up?

I am interpreting this as, "just shut up until the game is over". I'm sure it would be easier for everyone if I just sat quietly and resigned to not trying (despite the fact that when I wasn't posting, I was criticized), but if I have a chance of influencing xyzzy to vote MM, why shouldn't I do that?

've been reading and rereading for interactions and tells, and going back and forth between you and MM. Therefore, the "damned if I do, damned if I don't" mentality is completely bogus.

That may be true, but I wouldn't know it to look at your posting today. There's been little attempt made to dispute the arguments I've made beyond what feelings they've provoked.

2) You cherry picked the quotes you used. MM also posted in there, so her posts were used in determining reads as well. While ISOs are extremely useful, players do not exist in a vacuum.

Of course I cherry picked quotes. I'm attempting to paint a picture of MM as scum as efficently as possible, not to give an unbiased summary of what happened this game. It's incumbent upon others, namely xyzzy, to assess whether or not those arguments are sincere.

In other words, in our specific circumstances, xyzzy is more or less the judge and MM and I are opposing attorneys. It's not my job to show MM in a good light here, shaddowez.

3) I'm not sure how you can say in the same paragraph that you're airing frustration and don't want the post to come out as sore. As I said earlier, if this is real I'm sorry you feel that way, but that's like starting a sentence with "I don't mean to offend you, but..."

Well, this goes back to what I said earlier in this post. I'm sure it would be much easier on you and xyzzy if I were just to shut up and accept whatever fate came down. I owe it to the game to continue to speak my mind, regardless of how uncomfortable it may make you. That said, I have to acknowledge the reality that there's a good chance it'll come across as soreness, so I'm obliged to qualify my post.

[Ms Marangal]

I am doing a horrible job as my own attourney

[xyzzy]

I feel like at this point I'm just needlessly extending the game by not voting. I really dislike post #633's claim that "okay, you're posting, you're still scummy" is an argument anyone ever made--I feel like I've made it clear that my issue with RedCoyote is that I find his posts today disingenuous, not that their mere existence is bad. but I guess that's probably an irrelevant point.

I still definitely don't feel sure about this, but I don't think waiting another 25 hours will change that.

VOTE: RedCoyote

let's hope I'm right about this?

[Equinox]

Vote Count 4.02

RedCoyote (2) - Ms Marangal, xyzzy
Ms Marangal (1) - RedCoyote

xyzzy (0)

Not Voting (0) -

xyzzy

The deadline is Saturday, August 20, 2016, at 3:30 AM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2016-08-20 03:30:00).[/area]

---

Flavor goes here.

RedCoyote,

mafia goon

, was lynched in Rarefaction II!

A win condition has been fulfilled!

Ms Marangal,

town vanilla

, and xyzzy,

town innocent child

, survive and win the game for the town!

[Equinox]

Roles

Mafia Goon: RedCoyote
Mafia Goon:

drmyshottyizsik

Not_Mafia
Town Innocent Child: xyzzy
Town Vanilla:

BTD6_maker

Shadow_step
Town Vanilla:

Infinity 324

shaddowez
Town Vanilla:

Kappy

Fire Assassin
Town Vanilla: Ms Marangal
Town Vanilla: RachMarie
Town Vanilla: thenewearth

Actions

Night 1

RedCoyote shoots Shadow_step (successful)

Private Topics

Access to the mafia private topic will be granted only by permission of the respective users.

Graveyard: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=67427
Mafia: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=67089

---

Thank you to everyone for playing.

This, uh, could have been run better. With actual prods. Yep.

[RachMarie]

YES YES YES WE DID IT WOOT YAY

and it was a good game and scum you almost pulled it off

awesome job by our IC one of the best I have seen

[xyzzy]

thanks for running this, Equinox! I had fun.

[xyzzy]

also: I was incredibly impressed when I hammered and then

literally less than a minute later

I refreshed and the thread was locked

[Shadow_step]

Well at least I was right on RC being scum.
GJ town. Rach, shadow and xyzzy in particular.

[Firebringer]

How did town win?
Did scum like afk flake the game?

[Firebringer]

Not_Mafia, mafia goon, was lynched on Rarefaction I!

Was most shocked about this.

[RachMarie]

I told ya all he was scumz

[Firebringer]

Good guess.

[Firebringer]

I think I will take some drinks to this game and try to forget I even bothered replacing into it.

[Equinox]

I think I will take some drinks to this game and try to forget I even bothered replacing into it.

There's this one game where half of the page tops are not vote counts in which you might be interested.