Micro 634 - Wolf Hunt [Game Over!]

[mhsmith0]

They can try to manipulate it. Some people really struggle to pull it off though,mans I think few are able to do it easily. It's hard and many aren't even fully aware of what their town game even looks like, especially if/when they're just doing what feels natural. Tone, aggression, apparent curiosity. quality of questions, depth of thinking, willingness to get into fights and get hands dirty (even when getting into a fight makes you look bad to most people and it's easier to avoid them), are the types of things that people often don't successfully replicate as wolves or even especially want to try.

[mhsmith0]

Of course, some of that also falls into general villager behavior too, and many peoples town and wolf meta fall reasonably in line with general town or wolf meta. Very very few people are as aggressive as wolf as they are as town, for instance.

[mhsmith0]

Another example: my own town meta is generally between what you saw in GoT (fairly lazy but still analyzing, asking decent ?s, etc) and what I did in open 642 (ridiculously obv!town, getting into fights, desperately trying to get content from people and eventually just getting frustrated and yelling at the town for being lazy and bad, while still being checked in enough to read people off of their reactions to that). Whereas my wolf game tends to be pretty consistently on the lazy side, in large part because villagers are bad at picking that up (see newbie 1714 for a fantastatic example of this, subbed in d2, shot cop n2 and otherwise largely coasted against a village that was busy eating itself).

[Ümläüt]

Nice job towntelling and casing Lycan, Smith. I most likely would have voted him tomorrow anyway after getting your slot lynched today, but who knows what might have happened between now and then to convince either me or (probably) Chaos to vote differently?

[mhsmith0]

@lycan: wrt your "pissed off" bit, I'll defer to a dead chat note from someone much better than me...

I don't have time to adequately respond to that post but one thing I can say quickly is that when I'm talking about emotions, I'm specifically excluding anger. It's the easiest emotion to fake and it's one that is often not alignment-indicative even when it is genuine, unless it can be traced to an origin in something distinctly villagery.

Emotions like pride, paranoia, surprise, suspicion, etc, are more difficult to fake. Wolves often fail to even identify spots in which emotion should be present in their posting, and their efforts at actually displaying more complex emotions are often quite clumsy, for example by stating their supposed feelings rather than displaying them.

But in the case of Cron, a lot of what was clearing for him was just the sheer depth and breadth of his reads and interactions. It's just hard to fake that much content so quickly and make it sound good. And few wolves are ever going to stalk other players' online statuses in order to catch lurkers.

Your "pissed off" bit seemed both inconsistent with your actual tone (stating it instead of showing it) and a bizarre emotion to have in reaction to the situation. And faking emotions is a pretty decent wolf tell.

[mhsmith0]

Nice job towntelling and casing Lycan, Smith. I most likely would have voted him tomorrow anyway after getting your slot lynched today, but who knows what might have happened between now and then to convince either me or (probably) Chaos to vote differently?

Thanks! It's nice to start building up a villa winning streak (2 and counting).

[Ümläüt]

Yeah, thanks for helping me maintain my own misleadingly impressive win/loss ratio gained largely through blind luck and carries.

[mhsmith0]

Speaking of misleading w/l records, we could always talk about my own...

I actually had a player I respect a lot tell me I was the unluckiest player by far he'd ever seen... and that was before another set of unlucky town losses

[mhsmith0]

That said I thought you were fine here. Pretty clearly town, though your waffling around the lycan vote looked odd enough that if it was wrong I'd be worried about you a lot more.

[Lycanfire]

Btw lycan, I'd say that you are TOWN when you're town. One thing to try as wolf is push a bit harder and take the time to ask seemingly interesting questions. Asking zero questions is a slip worth fixing.

mm, well thanks. y'see i did try to emulate my town meta but i directed it differently. instead rather than relentlessly grill my target i thought by experience accountant would probably ignore me if i made it clear i was looking at them and only them. instead i wanted to put all the attention on accountant- that was my plan, and tiershift was very helpful in accomplishing that. i felt like if accountant didn't slip up, i could suddenly take pressure off him and 'clear' him for towncred, but because of how day went i ended up having to feed my scum partner to accountant to justify staying on him, and i suppose the attention boiled over and chaos/tiershift came for carey.

i fucked up and realized that i wasn't going to make it to day 4 without killing off wagon, so i decided to do it as early as possible while simultaneously setting up tiershift as the best candidate to be carey's partner. nobody really questioned that, but how i set him up was beyond the most scummy thing i did this game because i argued two different motives for what should have been an easy action (voting carey) and my conclusion was forced. there was no way to argue that conclusion: tiershift wasn't lynched in place of carey, and i was arguing it was because tiershift as scum partner couldn't vote himself.

to offer some advice of my own, it wasn't tiershift's crumb that told me he was the cop. it's that he hammered joushi and i knew he had town motive doing it. i asked myself how he would talk his way out of it and i told myself that he has to be the cop. i guess it's really unfortunate for me that he investigated bbt over accountant and made my worst fears realized ever since i killed accountant: that town would bloc day 2 and lynch me outright. that didn't happen because joushi was pushed hard for some reason. not even scum!me wanted any part of that wagon and i'm sure town!me would agree.

in the end it was confident focused town play on scum that won the game. an ounce more doubt or hesitation and crawling to day 4 was a possibility i feel.

[mhsmith0]

Agreed on that hammer, it's game throwing as either alignment if not the major town pr. I pmd the mod just after skimming the last page w "I bet tiers the cop w a bbt peek". Was super duper obvious.

[mhsmith0]

Wrt your town meta, there's a pretty clear fundamental aggressiveness and inquisitiveness to your play that seems to be fairly consistent. My guess is it's something you aren't even really thinking about, it just comes out naturally to you as part of your solving process. Just for kicks, you can probably iso this game vs any of your town games and see a major difference in tone and content and WIM (want it more).

As time goes on, you'll get better at emulating that process, though I'll warn you that you will hit setbacks; my first wolf game was mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/1337-Fruit-Salad-Mafia, and I played aggressively, got my as kicked (including a pretty bad d2 meltdown) and have almost never played with that level of confidence since, though I do hope to eventually get there. Bbt says it's easy to manipulate meta, but I'd say it's actually hard to do so. Emulating your town process takes a LOT of confidence, and that confidence is hard to come by sometimes, which is why a lot of people just coast, lurk or active lurk as wolves.

It's a process that takes time and effort, but I think you'll be able to learn from this game and improve (possibly including an improvement in your town game from seeing how you woofed and where it went wrong). I wish you luck.

[Lycanfire]

i suppose i came off as uninspired. i don't like it when i don't get my way. you probably know that from open 651 when i was subtly suggesting that dissenters could be shot.

[mhsmith0]

In fairness I wasn't actually reading open 651 all that closely. Skimmed a bit from time to time was all. I got busy, and as happens sometimes, a game I was only observing got dumped all the way to last on my priority list. I paid more attention to that game when I was skimming your iOS while case building than I really did while it was ongoing lol. IIRC post game I'd told rask I didn't know if he was a wolf since I wasn't reading, figured you'd have seen that and so your "smith was reading closely bit" was an intentional discrediting lie.

[TierShift]

I did not realise it was hammer tbh

[SnarkySnowman]

491 has been updated with final votecount, werewolf PT, and dead / mod PT.

Thanks for playing guys! Hope you all liked the flavor! And sorry that took so long!

[TierShift]

I liked the scenes, snarky.

Could you maybe PM me next time if I get added to a dead thread?

[Accountant]

I died night one. That's good, I guess? had bad reads

[mhsmith0]

Pushed the the last wolf hard enough to make him feel threatened enough to shoot you, can't feel too badly about that.

[SnarkySnowman]

I liked the scenes, snarky.

Could you maybe PM me next time if I get added to a dead thread?

Thought I did!

[TierShift]

Np snarky

BBT, I really disliked the way you pushed me day 1. Not interacting with your scumreads before pushing them is just plain bad, as interacting just gives you so much more insight into how a player thinks and what his motvations are. Especially when there is not much to go off, it is ridiculous to refuse any attempt from a scumread to produce more content and make himself more readable. It almost got me outed day 1 and I feel that the game would have been much more difficult in that scenario, as you would have been a likely lynch day 2.

Just don't do that as town anymore.

[TierShift]

Also it is very annoying to the player in question and might lead to apathy which it almost did

[Radja]

[Radja]

Bump