Micro 661 | Scumteam UnPick - Pressure Done

[Creature]

>daychat at least d1

Mafia had daytalk all the game.

[Jaack]

Lol, I got played, sorry Smart and the rest.

@BV - No need to continue the charade with the win. That was cheap.

I'm not sure if this is facecious, but you might wanna check the spoiler.

[Gamma Emerald]

oh cool creature

[BlackVoid]

Thanks for modding Creature and CFJ. Just to address the point on extensions - I wasn't really shopping around for one. It's more that I asked Creature and he saw my PM but didn't respond and I was worried that the deadline would just run out with no resolution which is what made me offer Smart a draw. I do think extending it ultimately was the right decision though.

Sorry Dun for mislynching you especially with your pristine record. There were a bunch of things that I saw in Prohawk's ISO that pointed away from you two being partners and I really should have held Smart accountable to answering my questions especially as the day lasted so long. I just wish I figured it out soon enough. When I saw your townflip, I thought we pretty much lost but Columbo did a great job taking her time and making the right call. At least you got a win. But that was my major screw-up this game. You are right that I was conf-biasing myself a bit, will keep that in mind next time.

Good game scum. Mad respect for Smart's play for tricking me into thinking it wasn't him when it was down to just him and Dun. Was great playing with Jaack again and several people I haven't played with before.

[Jaack]

Yeah, I feel particularly bad about the Dun lynch. I wrote off SSmart too quickly and when BV started doing his obvtown thing at the end of D2, I worked myself into the one tunnel left.

[-Grey-]

Three posts.

I replaced in... to make three posts.

GG I guess?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That scumbag punked me in the dead thread, I thought SSmart was scum all along, gdi

[ssbm_Kyouko]

O well

[Ms Columbo]

Lol, I got played, sorry Smart and the rest.

@BV - No need to continue the charade with the win. That was cheap.

I'm not sure if this is facecious, but you might wanna check the spoiler.

WOW! Hook......line......sinker. That was an awesome punk!!

Perhaps I'm too tired. Anyone have a bridge they want to sell me....

@BV - Please ignore that comment, you're cool!

[callforjudgement]

This is actually the hardest-fought 3p lylo I've

ever

seen (and I've been here a while). Congratulations to the town, and congratulations to all three players left in lylo; I was metaphorically on the edge of my seat watching it.

I find it interesting that so many players found the setup townsided. I'm not at all certain I disagree (although it

did

end up in the most balanced possible lylo); however, this probably means that the setups I compared it to were townsided. This may mean that we've been consistently underestimating the self-confirming aspects of power roles in open Micros. It might alternatively or additionally be further evidence that the scum nightkill's ability to eliminate problem players is stronger than it's usually given credit for, even when it doesn't give a mechanical advantage.

[Dunhallym]

Yay!
Congrats for turning the tide BV, and good job for making the right call Columbo !
Well played Smart and Prohawk. That was a really close one and you both played really well.

I'll make a few more comments when I have more time.

[Something_Smart]

I'll have more discussion later but I just want to touch on a few things.

First of all, GG. I have a lot of respect for the way BV played that. I'm glad that it's over, but I'm also glad that it had a satisfying ending.

Second of all, regarding my activity, the truth was somewhere between the two extremes. I wasn't actually busy, but I was on break from college and at my computer much less; so it did make it more difficult to think about the game and also I had to force myself to post. And I apologize for making the game drag out like that.

Third of all, a lot of the stuff I said about deserving was bullshit and I was aware of that. BV definitely deserved to win, and IMO he would have deserved to win even if he were scum. (Although, BV saying I was good at AtE meant a lot to me because I thought it was awful )

Regarding the setup, I don't think it's townsided per se, but scum definitely have a difficult road ahead of them. The fact that I'm a calculating player helped me plan out the possible scenarios, but I basically got forced into a lot of the stuff that I did: I didn't want ssbm lynched D1 because it meant I couldn't logically go for Tenshii over ProHawk D2, and so I tried to mislynch Dunhallym but that also proved challenging, so I was forced to bus. And BTW I killed Grey because (a) I wanted Jaack alive another day to defend me, (b) I was a little pissed at him for lolhammering my buddy , and (c) I was afraid of how unpredictable he might be (in the scum topic I described him as a "loose cannon").

And finally, I don't mind if you release the scum topic.

[ProHawk]

GG all!

I'm good with the scum-chat opened.

Smart, it was a close one and we did our best! Thanks for your hard work.

BV, you're crazy dedicated man. I still think you would have played the same as scum FWIW, your opening move was brilliant regardless of alignment.

Replacements really screwed with the game unfortunately.

[Creature]

Here's the scum PT

[ProHawk]

Still dont understand the no kill N1 restriction....

[callforjudgement]

Basically it's to prevent the scum just always shooting the player who's most unpicked, leaving town without enough information to balance the game. (Town starts a player down to compensate; it's a 6:2 rather than 7:2 setup.) It might be worth risking it (just running the setup as a 7:2 with full kills) if this setup is ever run again, though, so that we can compare.

[ProHawk]

I have seen a lot of references to my "poor", or "terrible" posts, could I get some constructive feedback please?

[Jaack]

So when I flip town, are you going to lynch Tenshii next and claim the game is won? Or are you going to flip Gamma before Tenshii?

Don't have a lot of time, but this is the one I scum read the strongest.

I felt like these questions were trying to make me look scummy, not trying to discern my thoughts or alignment. Since the tenshii connection was false, you probably could have talked me out of it and into a dunhallym lynch.

[ProHawk]

That was my angle, do you think it would have been better to Lynch one of my potential Partners than one who could not have been?

[Jaack]

It's a balance of risk. If your confident you can survive, push the possible scum partner. If you're not, push from the rest.

I think in this particular case, dunhallym was the lynch you needed D2. The matrix made lynching Gamma and Tenshii non-starters and with ZZZX it just made way more sense to wait for a replacement anyway. Turn me around onto a dunhallym lynch D2, shoot Tenshii, and work on pairing me with SSmart for lylo. I think that was the path to victory. 1v1ing me could have worked out D2 I guess, but it'd put you in baaaad shape D3.

As is, I felt your approach to me just wasn't addressing my concerns, while at the same time I was never convinced you actually thought I was scum. The connections I was making between you and Tenshii weren't all that good in hindsight, but I ended up pointing out some of the errors myself (see 417). Since my reasons were wrong and I was posting stuff that I had misremembered, I was vulnerable but your case was too focused on making things that weren't scummy look scummy as opposed to highlighting my errors. I don't think lynching me was the best option D2, but it was doable, you just focused on the wrong things.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Something_Smart was lynched, he was

Mafia Goon

.

Congratulations to the town

Mod PT
Scum PT
Dead PT

Lol, I got played, sorry Smart and the rest.

@BV - No need to continue the charade with the win. That was cheap.

Wait so town actually won? I marked this game as a loss in my notes

[callforjudgement]

In case there's any doubt: town won, the mod was trolling. (The mod came clean in a spoiler even in the original version of the post, but it seems that not enough people actually opened the spoiler.)

[Dunhallym]

I said I'd give more feedback when I had more time so here it is.
First, thanks mods for the game. I'm not very good at judging a game's balance but I don't think the setting is that townsided. In the beginning the matrix is helpful for town but scum can also exploit it and I think that Prohawk and Smart did some good job with that. Now, it depends a lot on players choices, the number of redundancies, that is random factors while with PR the player's skill factors more.
Several options to limit that random effect: let the players pick each one team and add a couple that you select. Or ask the FM team to select x pairs that town will know have not been selected. That way they can tweak it in a way that suits them. Or have the players select one team that cannot be picked and one that has a reduced probability of being selected (e.g. twice less likely). If 2 players pick the same team for the reduced probability then it will not be picked.
As I said I'm not very good with assessing game balance so those are just possibilities I see to change a bit the system while keeping the original idea, but it would require more thoughts in terms of balance.

[Dunhallym]

Now a few comments for players.
Prohawk, since you asked I'll start with you
The reasons I had you as likely town were your aggressive play and the fact I could easily follow your thought's process and agreed with most of the points you brought on the table. This is a weakness of mine that I tend to townread people when I agree with them and to scumread them when I don't get their thought's process. But there were 2 issues with your last posts: first the overreaction. ZZZX had called your posts emotional, I didn't find them so apart from the agressivity but this changed with your last posts on day 2. This is what prompted me to go and see your old games and check if it was in character for you as town or scum, which didn't teach me much but whatever. And second, your case on Jaack made no sense. You had been quite logical till that point, and it looked fake. I still gave you the benefit of the doubt because I had become really wary of Jaack at that point but it still raised flags, hence my attempt at getting a real case from you. Also, I think that your hard townread on me was well played, because I thought my play on the first part of day 2 was pretty obvtown and as much as I try not to townread people for tr me the fact you aknowledged that still factored in.

Jaack: I don't blame you or anyone for mislynching me. If I have one reproach for you it's day 2 : you completely ignored my paranoia on you and that didn't help, as well as your lack of comment on the Smart vs me argument in spite of the fact I asked several times for input.

I'll continue later.

[BlackVoid]

Now, it depends a lot on players choices, the number of redundancies, that is random factors while with PR the player's skill factors more.

I enjoyed the way this setup played out partly because it could only confirm town, not scum i.e. there's no chance of getting a guilty on anyone and scum knowing all the lynches beforehand led to some interesting strategic decisions. I think in that way, it was probably better than having power roles.

Looking forward to the rest of your thoughts.