Micro 713: 5p Vengeful (Endgame)

[Infinity 324]

Ok so it's probably you and mort

[Not Fury]

Ok so it's probably you and mort

Don't taze me bro.

[Not Fury]

Why do you scum read me btw

[Infinity 324]

Mainly PoE but also cause it doesn't feel like you're trying to sort. The "ha I solved the game" feels overdone

[Infinity 324]

Ok so it's probably you and mort

Don't taze me bro.

What does this mean

[Infinity 324]

On the off-chance you're town (we're talking less than the odds of me having a heart attack and spontaneously combusting at the same time), shoot ASP.

Like here, this is fake because town!you recognizes my townread on ASP and either tries to convince or doesn't bother. It just feels thrown out in order to help your chances if I get lynched.

[Infinity 324]

I'm convincing myself

VOTE: not fury

[Not Fury]

On the off-chance you're town (we're talking less than the odds of me having a heart attack and spontaneously combusting at the same time), shoot ASP.

Like here, this is fake because

town!you recognizes my townread on ASP

and either tries to convince

or doesn't bother

. It just feels thrown out in order to help your chances if I get lynched.

I'd like to choose option 2: doesn't bother.

[Not Fury]

Anyways, I'll be back in roughly 18 hours! :O

[MortFeld]

Infinity 111 is a really lateral interaction with my 91 and I'm not sure how genuine the approach is.

Extremely surface level. While I am annoyed at the fact that seemingly everyone but me conflates self voting and threatening to self vote, I don't scumread it. I do feel like this is a bit of a hokey explanation for a read though.

I agree but I don't think it's scummy.

Why not?

In terms of Mort, like I previously said, a lot of his posts were nothing more than fancy busy-work.

Seems to be a flavor of the game accusation.

I thought ASP was the one who brought it up in the first place?

Yeah this was more tongue in cheek since I feel like Vij is doing just that. And I believe Vij accused you of it too.

Examples include 36 (just listing off responses to other posts)

The implication here is that my 36 will
1. not help other people sort me and
2. not help other people sort other people

i.e. that it is just a random collection of responses with no motion toward game solving. I really disagree with this and I really hate how flippantly he reduced the post to 'useless collection of responses'.

I don't see how that post will help gamesolve and I kind of agree with him. Especially since you said specifically that the post wasn't for everyone else to understand.

Maybe it was a bad post. I do concede it was more for notetaking than sorting and helping others sort me but I deny that the latter purposes cannot be achieved through the post. Here's a question for both you and ASP: how do you get from 'longish post that is responses to other posts' to 'just doing useless busywork'?

and after my post commenting on it, 46, specifically the first bullet, "I think I was talking about"... does he not even know what he was talking about? That further suggest to me that he was saying things to look active and engaged rather than to actually gain anything from what he was offering.

Or I often forget my specific thought processes when I have long stretches of time between posting and reading next. This is scummy because?

Again, bad argument but not scummy

Why not?

Yknow what, sure.

VOTE: MortFeld

Oh, what the hell! Why don't I just vote my scumread. Why not!

That's

what we're supposed to do.

Explain more what the problem is with this. It feels to me like ASP convinced himself more than he voted you because it what he's "supposed" to do.

But he has not shown anything alignment indicative in 61 so what is he convincing himself of?

The problem is more a feeling than a reasoned case.

[MortFeld]

Ah, and this post asking a question rather than having an suspicion for Virj asking if we could vote ourselves. Feel like you're trying to participate, but you're scum and trying not to tip your hand.

Why would having suspicion for that be more reasonable?

Page 1 tone reading Virj as town.

This is the only stated basis for your Vij townread. That bothers me. I'm cool with gut reads but you say this later

Vij is lock town via tone

Which feels really premature. Can you go into this more?

Also, Vij 107 gives me the heebie jeebies.

[MortFeld]

I'll vote inf if we have to get a right now lynch
VOTE: Infinity

Talk to me. I'm feeling mort and not fury as scum.

Well you're not scum together at least.

Can someone tell me if Infinity's last posts contradicted anything he has said earlier?

You mean Infinity 111? What are you even trying to do here? Contradicting himself about what? This question is weird as fuck.

Nvm, just read page 3 and saw Tenshii pushing Infinity. So, my slot has been pressuring him already. Not sure I'd expect anything to change in that case due to change in pressure.

Sorry I don't understand this chain of reasoning from 113, please explain more step by step?

Also, you went scum lean to town lean on ASP for the post above with no explanation.

He did? Show me this pls. Lazy Mort being lazy.

Do you have specific reasons for vij/mort town or is it just PoE?

NF never says it's PoE and gives a positive non-PoE reason for each. Are you not reading?

NF, I need you to prove 116 to check the chronology of 121.

ASP was lock scum from his first post imo

I scumread ASP but this is very bad.

Ok so it's probably you and mort

???

Mainly PoE but also cause it doesn't feel like you're trying to sort. The "ha I solved the game" feels overdone

These are logically unconnected ideas. Annoyed Mort.

On the off-chance you're town (we're talking less than the odds of me having a heart attack and spontaneously combusting at the same time), shoot ASP.

Like here, this is fake because town!you recognizes my townread on ASP and either tries to convince or doesn't bother. It just feels thrown out in order to help your chances if I get lynched.

Hm I don't disagree here. Though I find it funny that you use this sort of argument while shooting down an argument I've made of a similar form.

Infinity and NF are not scum together.

Vij and NF are likely not scum together.

NF can (likely) only be scum with ASP. This is unlikely unless NF is godfather bussing ASP. Therefore NF is likely town.

[MortFeld]

town!NF makes me lean toward an ASP or an Infinity lynch.

I think Vij might be scum though.

[MortFeld]

I'm kind of allright with voting for infinity, I reckon. I think right now he's just been asking questions for a while? And trying not to make a push for like a while. I don't agree with lynching him for ASP association though, because tenshii could still be scum and also because we could lose if he's town and he hits another town. So, we should be a bit careful.

This is extremely noncommittal yet still manages to shade Tenshii and Infinity.

Re: whether I agree with 77 obviously I'm town so the first half is true, and I think Mort is town as well. As to whether the interactions make it impossible for ASP/Mort to be a scumteam, I don't think that's relevant to what my thoughts are right now. And as I said, Tenshii's push to lynch because of these early associative tells, I'm very wary of.

Also avoidant and noncommittal.

88 is a really annoying post though I'm not sure it's scummy.

Then cue jump right to 107.

Since threatening to self vote and semi-analyzing reactions to that this player has done very little other than vote Infinity.

[MortFeld]

Since contemplating self voting

EBWOP for accuracy.

[Infinity 324]

On the off-chance you're town (we're talking less than the odds of me having a heart attack and spontaneously combusting at the same time), shoot ASP.

Like here, this is fake because

town!you recognizes my townread on ASP

and either tries to convince

or doesn't bother

. It just feels thrown out in order to help your chances if I get lynched.

I'd like to choose option 2: doesn't bother.

Doesn't bother to even say that. Why would you if you knew I would just ignore your advice?

[Infinity 324]

Infinity 111 is a really lateral interaction with my 91 and I'm not sure how genuine the approach is.

Extremely surface level. While I am annoyed at the fact that seemingly everyone but me conflates self voting and threatening to self vote, I don't scumread it. I do feel like this is a bit of a hokey explanation for a read though.

I agree but I don't think it's scummy.

Why not?

In terms of Mort, like I previously said, a lot of his posts were nothing more than fancy busy-work.

Seems to be a flavor of the game accusation.

I thought ASP was the one who brought it up in the first place?

Yeah this was more tongue in cheek since I feel like Vij is doing just that. And I believe Vij accused you of it too.

Examples include 36 (just listing off responses to other posts)

The implication here is that my 36 will
1. not help other people sort me and
2. not help other people sort other people

i.e. that it is just a random collection of responses with no motion toward game solving. I really disagree with this and I really hate how flippantly he reduced the post to 'useless collection of responses'.

I don't see how that post will help gamesolve and I kind of agree with him. Especially since you said specifically that the post wasn't for everyone else to understand.

Maybe it was a bad post. I do concede it was more for notetaking than sorting and helping others sort me but I deny that the latter purposes cannot be achieved through the post. Here's a question for both you and ASP: how do you get from 'longish post that is responses to other posts' to 'just doing useless busywork'?

and after my post commenting on it, 46, specifically the first bullet, "I think I was talking about"... does he not even know what he was talking about? That further suggest to me that he was saying things to look active and engaged rather than to actually gain anything from what he was offering.

Or I often forget my specific thought processes when I have long stretches of time between posting and reading next. This is scummy because?

Again, bad argument but not scummy

Why not?

Yknow what, sure.

VOTE: MortFeld

Oh, what the hell! Why don't I just vote my scumread. Why not!

That's

what we're supposed to do.

Explain more what the problem is with this. It feels to me like ASP convinced himself more than he voted you because it what he's "supposed" to do.

But he has not shown anything alignment indicative in 61 so what is he convincing himself of?

The problem is more a feeling than a reasoned case.

I don't think that using tells that are different from mine, or even using surface-level reasoning, is scummy. I don't think scum bullshit more often than townies just disagree. This, I guess, is my answer to your "why not" questions. ASP disagreeing with us on tells doesn't make him more likely to be scum, especially since weak reasoning is more acceptable early on.

Wrt 36, it's not that it's a longish post that's a response to other posts. It's like you said, it was more a noting post than a sorting post, even though I could see why that post could be used for sorting.

And just because ASP hasn't pointed out very alignment-indicative things to us doesn't mean they're NAI to him.

If it's more of a feeling than logic, maybe you're not articulating it in the best way?

[Infinity 324]

NF never says it's PoE and gives a positive non-PoE reason for each. Are you not reading?

Yes, after I asked him to.

[Infinity 324]

These are logically unconnected ideas.

Deal with how my brain works.

[Infinity 324]

Hm I don't disagree here. Though I find it funny that you use this sort of argument while shooting down an argument I've made of a similar form.

Infinity and NF are not scum together.

Vij and NF are likely not scum together.

What similar argument did you make?

Why can't vij and NF be the scumteam? That would be my pick for the scumteam if you're town, which is seeking more likely tbh. You've gotten better since 36 and vij has given nothing.

[Infinity 324]

I'm kind of allright with voting for infinity, I reckon. I think right now he's just been asking questions for a while? And trying not to make a push for like a while. I don't agree with lynching him for ASP association though, because tenshii could still be scum and also because we could lose if he's town and he hits another town. So, we should be a bit careful.

This is extremely noncommittal yet still manages to shade Tenshii and Infinity.

Re: whether I agree with 77 obviously I'm town so the first half is true, and I think Mort is town as well. As to whether the interactions make it impossible for ASP/Mort to be a scumteam, I don't think that's relevant to what my thoughts are right now. And as I said, Tenshii's push to lynch because of these early associative tells, I'm very wary of.

Also avoidant and noncommittal.

88 is a really annoying post though I'm not sure it's scummy.

Then cue jump right to 107.

Since threatening to self vote and semi-analyzing reactions to that this player has done very little other than vote Infinity.

Yeah actually I kind of agree. I liked 88 since I thought it was a good criticism of my play but it's not like scum can't bring up good points.

[Not Fury]

Alright I'm confident that Mort is town.

Infinity, if you're town and you scum read me and someone other than Mort, shoot that other person. I can be lynched the next day, but shoot that other person.

(notice how this move only leaves me + mort as a game losing scum team).

[Not Fury]

Alright I'm starting to see arguments for scum Vij.

in order of increasing likelihood of being scum:
{ASP}
{Infinity}
{Vij}
{Mort}

Though, if any one of the top 3 are scum, then shoot someone else in the top 3 and lynch the last member next day. I've found my 1 lock town this game and that's Mort. I'm town, so the game can only end like this:

Infinity flips Godfather = gg
Infinity flips goon -> lynch one of Vij/ASP(pref ASP) -> if town flip, then shoot the other

Infinity flips town -> Shoot Vij or ASP (whoever you scum read the most) - > Lynch the other next day.

Some situations leave me to 1v1 in LYLO and I'm fine with that. Based on my current read, I'm not voting mort all game.

You may ask: Why vote Infinity if ASP is highest scum?
A: If he flips town, it doesn't matter (see above flow chart). I think he'll flip Godfather though.

[Infinity 324]

Alright I'm confident that Mort is town.

Infinity, if you're town and you scum read me and someone other than Mort, shoot that other person. I can be lynched the next day, but shoot that other person.

(notice how this move only leaves me + mort as a game losing scum team).

Notice how that is one of the two scumteams I think is most likely.

[Infinity 324]

Alright I'm starting to see arguments for scum Vij.

in order of increasing likelihood of being scum:
{ASP}
{Infinity}
{Vij}
{Mort}

Though, if any one of the top 3 are scum, then shoot someone else in the top 3 and lynch the last member next day. I've found my 1 lock town this game and that's Mort. I'm town, so the game can only end like this:

Infinity flips Godfather = gg
Infinity flips goon -> lynch one of Vij/ASP(pref ASP) -> if town flip, then shoot the other

Infinity flips town -> Shoot Vij or ASP (whoever you scum read the most) - > Lynch the other next day.

Some situations leave me to 1v1 in LYLO and I'm fine with that. Based on my current read, I'm not voting mort all game.

You may ask: Why vote Infinity if ASP is highest scum?
A: If he flips town, it doesn't matter (see above flow chart). I think he'll flip Godfather though.

That's great if you and mort are both town. So completely irrelevant for me.