Micro 731 | Scumteam UnPick II - Endgame

[Creature]

Micro 731: Scumteam UnPick II

Players	Role	Death
TheBrie	Mafia Goon	Survived
RadiantCowbells vungrzlfrys¹	Mafia Goon	Survived
Kingmaker acidphoenix¹	Vanilla Town	Endgamed
GuiltyLion	Vanilla Town	Endgamed
Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)¹	Vanilla Town	Lynched D2
Vic Sage	Vanilla Town	Killed N1
Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)¹	Vanilla Town	Lynched D1 second
CommKnight	Vanilla Town	Lynched D1 first

Important links

Rules

Game Setup

Day 1	1.1.1	1.1.2	1.1.3	1.1.4	1.1.5
1.2.0	1.2.1	1.2.2	1.2.3			Night 1

Day 2

2.1

2.2

2.3

2.4

Final lynch

Endgame

General Game Info

[Creature]

Rules

Somewhatly copied from my previous scumteam unpick game

What you must know

• All general sitewide rules apply, you can read them here.
  
• No flaming, harassing or anything like that.
  
• Do not quote mod communications. Paraphrasing is allowed.
  
• Don't discuss this game elsewhere than where I say unless I declare this is over.
  
• Don't use encrypted or small/invisible texts.
  
• Don't pretend to break the rules either.
  
• Green
  is my color, refrain from using this.

Voting and Deadlines

• Day 1 will have a duration of 14 real life days. 7 days for each lynch.
  
• Subsequent days will have a duration of 7 real life days.
  
• Nights will have a duration of 2 real life days.

Day

• During the day, you may vote someone to lynch.
  
• Votes and must be within this format:
  
  Spoiler:

  VOTE: Playername
  

  Code: Select all

  [v]Playername[/v]

  
  
  UNVOTE: Whatever inside optional
  

  Code: Select all

  [uv]Whatever inside optional[/uv]

  
  
  or
  
  

  vote: Playername or unvote: whatever

  
  

  Code: Select all

  [b]vote: Playername or unvote: whatever[/b]

  
  
• You may also vote to end the day without a lynch (nolynch)
  
• The majority occurs when more than half the players votes someone (or nolynch).
  
• The player may not post after I announce they've been lynched.
  
• If the deadline ends before a majority occurs, a nolynch will happen.

Night

• Actions can be submitted via PM or scum PT.
  
• If no actions were submitted by deadline, the default will be target no one.

Activity

• If you haven't posted in the thread after 48 hours, you'll receive a prod.
  
• If you still haven't posted after 24 hours, I'll search for your replacement.
  
• If you're prodded three times, I'll force-replace you.
  
• If you can't/is limited to post, you may announce V/LA. They must be made public.
  
• The more active you are, the most fun you'll have.

[Creature]

Game Setup

Also kind of copied from my previous game

6

Vanilla Townies

vs 2

Mafia Goons

Mafia have daytalk.
Town may lynch twice during day 1. Each lynch will have a deadline of 7 real life days.
Day 1's first lynch will only have their alignment revealed at the end of the day 1, along day 1's second lynch.
Scum must kill every night.

During pregame, all players must submit two scumteam picks they want to

not

roll.
You can't include yourself.
You can't include the same player in two picks.

Spoiler: Correct

Player A picks:
- Player B + Player C
- Player D + Player E

Spoiler: Wrong

Player A picks:
- Player B + Player C
- Player A + Player B

Spoiler: Sample town role PM

Welcome, X. You are

Vanilla Town

.

You can vote during the day.

You win when both mafia members are dead.

Spoiler: Sample mafia role PM

Welcome, X. You are

Mafia Goon

.

Your partner is Y, you can communicate with him/her anytime here.
Every night you must submit a kill.

You win when mafia controls 50% of the vote or nothing can stop that from occuring.

[Creature]

Remember to send your picks.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-07-20 18:17:44)

[Creature]

Role PMs have been sent.
Awaiting 7 confirmations.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-07-21 21:30:48)

[Creature]

Day 1 has started

Votecount 1.1.0

Votecount 1.1.0

[0] acidphoenix
[0] Vic Sage
[0] Scylla and Charybdis
[0] CommKnight
[0] GuiltyLion
[0] Duckdoggo
[0] TheBrie
[0] vungrzlfrys

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: Everybody

8 players are alive, therefore 5 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-07-28 11:31:24)

[acidphoenix]

'ello

VOTE: commknight

[CommKnight]

So in your very first post (or at least first after seeing this post) POST BOTH DUOS YOU PICKED!!!!

I picked Guilty Lion & Vic Sage, and Thebrie & acidphoenix.

I'll compile a list of all possible duos plus cross out the ones people say. This is something we need to start off with to get the game rolling.

Also VOTE: Scylla and Charybdis - Because your heads are unknown.

[GuiltyLion]

Hi everyone!

I think we should do what the players did the last time this was run, and claim our picks early to get all the information now on eliminated pairings. Note that even if scum lie about who they picked, they cannot pick themselves, so it's still a guaranteed impossible scumpair.

My picks were Brie+acidphoenix and CommKnight+Scylla and Charybdis. When I get to a computer later I can start putting this info into a table

P-edit: lol ninjad, and with a same pick too :/

[CommKnight]

All Possible Pairings

Pairings
acidphoenix	Vic Sage
acidphoenix	Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)
acidphoenix	CommKnight
acidphoenix	GuiltyLion
acidphoenix	Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)
acidphoenix	TheBrie
acidphoenix	vungrzlfrys
Vic Sage	Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)
Vic Sage	CommKnight
Vic Sage	GuiltyLion
Vic Sage	Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)
Vic Sage	TheBrie
Vic Sage	vungrzlfrys
Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)	CommKnight
Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)	GuiltyLion
Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)	Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)
Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)	TheBrie
Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)	vungrzlfrys
CommKnight	GuiltyLion
CommKnight	Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)
CommKnight	TheBrie
CommKnight	vungrzlfrys
GuiltyLion	Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)
GuiltyLion	TheBrie
GuiltyLion	vungrzlfrys
Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)	TheBrie
Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)	vungrzlfrys
TheBrie	vungrzlfrys

Below is the above table in code so you can copy/paste and edit the table eaiser!!!

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

[table][row][header]Pairings[/header][/row]
[row][cell]acidphoenix[/cell][cell]Vic Sage[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]acidphoenix[/cell][cell]Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]acidphoenix[/cell][cell]CommKnight[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]acidphoenix[/cell][cell]GuiltyLion[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]acidphoenix[/cell][cell]Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]acidphoenix[/cell][cell]TheBrie[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]acidphoenix[/cell][cell]vungrzlfrys[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Vic Sage[/cell][cell]Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Vic Sage[/cell][cell]CommKnight[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Vic Sage[/cell][cell]GuiltyLion[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Vic Sage[/cell][cell]Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Vic Sage[/cell][cell]TheBrie[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Vic Sage[/cell][cell]vungrzlfrys[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)[/cell][cell]CommKnight[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)[/cell][cell]GuiltyLion[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)[/cell][cell]Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)[/cell][cell]TheBrie[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)[/cell][cell]vungrzlfrys[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]CommKnight[/cell][cell]GuiltyLion[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]CommKnight[/cell][cell]Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]CommKnight[/cell][cell]TheBrie[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]CommKnight[/cell][cell]vungrzlfrys[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]GuiltyLion[/cell][cell]Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]GuiltyLion[/cell][cell]TheBrie[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]GuiltyLion[/cell][cell]vungrzlfrys[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)[/cell][cell]TheBrie[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)[/cell][cell]vungrzlfrys[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]TheBrie[/cell][cell]vungrzlfrys[/cell][/row][/table]

[CommKnight]

P-edit: lol ninjad, and with a same pick too :/

Lol glad someone else thinks similar to. Also yes, I picked up on the fact scum couldn't lie in this set-up (regardless of the pairs they really picked) but I didn't want that to be public info until everyone outed their pairings.

Also yeah, I picked mine based on hopefully the least likely to be picked. Because I want as many pairings crossed off as possible. So I picked some unknown people to be in each pairing in hopes no one else picked them.

[Scylla and Charybdis]

Hi.

This game has a very interesting setup and should be really fun.

I chose GL and Comm
Charybdis chose Duckdoggo and TheBrie

VOTE: GL

-Scylla

[GuiltyLion]

I like this version of the table:

	acidphoenix	Vic Sage	Scylla and Charybdis	CommKnight	GuiltyLion	Duckdoggo	TheBrie	vungrzlfrys
acidphoenix	X						O
Vic Sage		X			O
Scylla and Charybdis			X	O
CommKnight			O	X	O
GuiltyLion		O		O	X
Duckdoggo						X
TheBrie	O						X
vungrzlfrys								X

where "X" is just denoting an impossible team and "O" is denoting a ruled-out team that someone picked. Eligible teams have blank spaces in the table. I'll make a final version once everyone's claimed their picks.

[GuiltyLion]

whoops sorry I made a mistake in that table above, here's a corrected version cause that was gonna bug me

	acidphoenix	Vic Sage	Scylla and Charybdis	CommKnight	GuiltyLion	Duckdoggo	TheBrie	vungrzlfrys
acidphoenix	X						O
Vic Sage		X			O
Scylla and Charybdis			X	O
CommKnight			O	X	O
GuiltyLion		O		O	X
Duckdoggo						X	O
TheBrie	O					O	X
vungrzlfrys								X

after this I'll wait until we get the rest of the picks in

[Duckdoggo]

Ooo nice tables
VOTE: GuiltyLion

[acidphoenix]

brie x guilty
doggo x vung

[Vic Sage]

Okay, so I was going to suggest not claiming pairings until the end of the day for a couple reasons, explanation to follow.

[Vic Sage]

Okay. First, I think we should treat this as a normal Day 1 until we're close to ending it in order to get better associatives. It seems really easy to me for scum to hide in the mechanic, and it seems like we'll get more information and associatives out of a normal D1.

Additionally, we don't want to let scum claim their picks last because that will be the easiest way for them to try and cater the picks towards manipulating town. I'm not going to explain how they might do this before everyone has claimed regardless of whether we agree to wait or not, but I think waiting until we have an L-1 is the best bet. And even if scum quickhammers to prevent pair claims, we've got a free scum lynch.

Oh, and btw VOTE: doggo.

[Scylla and Charybdis]

Why couldn't scum manipulate their picks to suit day 1 reads?
If they claim later today or today it won't change their ability to manipulate their picks. It will give us more time to look at where the possibilities are.

-Charybdis

[GuiltyLion]

First, I think we should treat this as a normal Day 1 until we're close to ending it in order to get better associatives. It seems really easy to me for scum to hide in the mechanic, and it seems like we'll get more information and associatives out of a normal D1.

Can you elaborate on this? I thought about this point before the game started and I rejected it.

"better associatives"

- Scum already know the exact team and therefore they also know that all other teams are ruled out to them. They also already know they need to mask the association with their partner and that doesn't change just because other potential partners get ruled out. If anything, the job becomes harder, because town will be looking more critically at a narrower pool of players they could be working with.

Scum currently have the full advantage in terms of information, whereas town is operating with no information to help solve the game. Confirming that two players cannot be scum together is strictly pro-town information, I don't see how scum would benefit from having a publicly reduced set of options of town-town teams to push as scum or townies who could plausibly be partnered with them. I think ruling out possibilities provides a sharper focus to the possibilities that remain, which would also make for better analysis/arguments over associatives. Imagine if someone is pushing a scumread, yet also claims to townread the only viable partners for that player - this is helpful to look at and analyze, and makes it harder for scum to present plausible fake views of the game state.

You say we'll get "more" information if we don't claim picks, but I feel that most of that information becomes useless noise as soon as teams relevant to that information are ruled out.

"hide in the mechanic"

- I think we should still play through a mostly normal D1, but with slightly more information than usual, as soon as all the ruled-out pairings are collected. And given that we're going to collect claims eventually, it's best to collect them ASAP. I don't really think there's much room for someone to hide in the mechanic if we're quick and efficient about it.

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: Vic Sage

[Vic Sage]

I'd bet a significant amount that we didn't manage to make an IC through the starting mechanic. Barring that, the only real purposes the claims will serve is 1. Associative tells and 2. PoE in the lategame. Interestingly, associatives are almost 0% useful without a single flip.

Additionally, scum

doesn't

have perfect information regarding picks. They, theoretically know 4 pairs that cannot be scum, and 1 pair that cannot have been chosen by anyone. And so they don't know who is the best to push based off of that. Knowing who cannot be scum together gives them a theoretical opportunity to craft mislynches based on what can or cannot be their proposed team.

I don't want to talk about how scum me would manipulate claiming, because that's really stupid. It just gives scum more direction on how they should fuck with us.

Also, no room to hide in the mechanic? I'll vote X because he has the most possible scumpairs!

[Scylla and Charybdis]

Scum won't be looking for who the pair could have been. They just know that they are the pair, and town are town. If they know who the pairs are, they will aim to lynch town, if they don't they will aim to lynch town in a manipulative way either side.
You mentioned 17 that you didn't want to reveal until someone is at L1. What do you feel will change between then and now? Because all I can see is the same issues that you posted happening then.
What if everyone else claims their targets, do you still think it's a bad idea if only your results haven't been said?

I also wouldn't consider someone's entire input acceptable as vote X because they have the most possible scum pairs, would you?

-Charybdis

[Vic Sage]

No I wouldn't, but it does seem like something that would get done. I have a lot of experience of poor theory crafting and suboptimal theory based plays messing up town's chances in non traditional mafia games.

My sole motivation for trying to delay this is the attempt to get scum to claim before town what pairs they submitted. That's it. If we have a full day before doing so, we can make the people who appear to be scummiest claim theirs first. My other preferred methods would be a popcorn claim, or for every player to have posted in literally their first post. Obviously, the last option isn't viable anymore. If we're gonna go with popcorn, I'd want GL, as my only townread so far, to begin the process.

Also, my vote is serious.

[CommKnight]

No I'll play along. VOTE: Vic Sage.

I'll run your ass up to L1. I specifically said EVERYONE claim their pairs in their first post. Want to be anti-town about it? I will push for your lynch today. Anyone else who refuses to do so in their next post who haven't already, they'll also run the risk of being lynched. This is non-negotiable. Stalling is scummy as hell.