Micro 745: Beyond Death [Endgame]

[Cabd]

The setup isn't anything too complex, I will note we will NOT get flips night one; and no-lynching in this setup is almost always the wrong move.


The two "self-docs" here should be treated somewhat like you would bulletproofs in the matrix 6 setup, with the note that them claiming early like the matrix 6 BP strat is a bad idea.

[Cabd]

no i think you put too much weight on the vote but that is likely a playstyle thing

i do think that your not voting isn't especially pro-town, however

You likely won't see a vote from me until i am confident in my entire reads list, not just a singular read. If this was a traditional game, the list would even contain the phrase "sync achieved"

any reads of note so far?

A singular townread that is of no major weight.

[Sobolev Space]

The setup isn't anything too complex, I will note we will NOT get flips night one; and no-lynching in this setup is almost always the wrong move.


The two "self-docs" here should be treated somewhat like you would bulletproofs in the matrix 6 setup, with the note that them claiming early like the matrix 6 BP strat is a bad idea.

wait who are the two "self-docs"? there's only one town PR, no?

[northsidegal]

micc, why do you feel the need to jump out of RVS before half the players have even checked in? And what's your take on the purpose of RVS?

What gave you the impression she was 'jumping out' of RVS? It's a weak reason, so I'd classify that as RVS. Your comment feels overly strong given that.

i think micc made it pretty clear that he wants to get out of rvs as soon as possible.

The setup isn't anything too complex, I will note we will NOT get flips night one; and no-lynching in this setup is almost always the wrong move.


The two "self-docs" here should be treated somewhat like you would bulletproofs in the matrix 6 setup, with the note that them claiming early like the matrix 6 BP strat is a bad idea.

isn't there only one doctor / firefighter?

[Chip Butty]

are you concerned about the amount of votes on you?

More surprised, I would say. I think Micc is probably town because pushing such a weak wagon would be suicidal when i flip green. The main problem, as i see it, is that there's really not much i can say for myself here. Yes, i missed that RC was replacing out. I guess if that's a lynchable offence there's not much to say.

[Cabd]

isn't there only one doctor / firefighter?

Apparently so, and I misread.

The point stays mostly the same, though.

[Chip Butty]

Well, if somehow I do get lynched, look for scum on my wagon. There's only 8 available votes, and there are 5 needed to lynch and I can't see 5 town voting for this RC thing. Or even 4, really...Gotta go...

[northsidegal]

for what it's worth i don't care about the rc thing, i was just looking for some kind of reaction. i didn't really get a lot out of it but i suspect scum would probably care more about being near-lynch in the first 3 pages, so i guess that's some credit towards you.
UNVOTE:

[BTD6_maker]

Not much has happened yet, but I am looking at Cabd in particular.

Cabd raises some interesting points. It is certainly true that scum generally want to look useful but stay under the radar. This could indeed be accomplished by sheeping, or by posting without votes (as Northsidegal mentioned). However, one thing that is not conducive to that is to make a point about not voting, which draws attention to it. Town generally don't mind much if they receive attention. They will do what they think is best, typically regardless of whether they fall under suspicion. Scum, on the other hand, want to avoid scrutiny.

Of course, this is very, very weak. I read Cabd as currently nullTown.

[CheekyTeeky]

Cool, everyone has checked in. I disagree with BTD6 (did you really make that game?), I think Cabd not voting is NAI, based on one game I've played with him. In the game he was town, but we see he is aware that he's played with me from his newbie comment earlier ITT. Cabd, being a meta genius, probably knows to not RVS vote again to have me assume a town read on him. So, the potential self-awareness of his opening move nullifies me reading him as a town lean, based on that one point alone. I feel there are other points that raise my suspicion on Cabd. First off he enters without providing any indication of early reads, when there's only one page to go off, so it wouldn't be hard to skim and then enter announcing any thoughts to help progress the game. Second, his "loaded gun" response to being questionned about not RVS voting, feels dramatic and out of place, like the emphasis is on being reasonable about voting, but we're not out of the RVS woods yet. Third, he comments on his own replacement slot by saying that rc doesn't like town, thats probably why he replaced, but that the point is also null. I'm not sure what the point of this comment is, if not to subtly put in our minds that his slot is town.

Overall I'd say I have an early scum lean on Cabd.
VOTE: Cabd

[Cabd]

You are both technically right. It's entirely NAI in that not voting in RVS has been my tradition for years now.

The sword/gun thing is also sort of a traditional response to that question, as it gets asked nearly every game.

[CheekyTeeky]

The setup isn't anything too complex, I will note we will NOT get flips night one; and no-lynching in this setup is almost always the wrong move.


The two "self-docs" here should be treated somewhat like you would bulletproofs in the matrix 6 setup, with the note that them claiming early like the matrix 6 BP strat is a bad idea.

How can you judge the set-up to be not too complex but also not understand the set-up?

[Cabd]

?

I misread the setup and thought it was 2-2-5 instead of 2-1-6; that doesn't exactly change the complexity much. If anything it makes it less complex.

[CheekyTeeky]

Ok fair. I'll move my vote when something else pings me.

I do agree that not lynching is the wrong move, because even if we lynch wrong we get the players voice as conf. town during the next day phases. It might be a good strat to sort experienced/high contributing players first, and if there is enough consensus that the player is likely scum, they would be an ideal first lynch.

[Sobolev Space]

cheeky why did you abandon your push on cabd when he responded to at most one of the three points you raised against him?

[Micc]

Micc, if we are going to get all serious, it seems to me that that slot has as much chance of being scum as any other, so why would it matter that RC was replacing out? Are you trying to discourage votes on that slot?

No, I'm just stating how unproductive it is to be voting an empty slot at that stage of the game.

if you're saying that rvs voting an empty slot doesn't help leave rvs because it doesn't draw reactions the same way that rvsing a player who's in the game does, shouldn't your own reaction to that prove that wrong?

I don't think so. By that logic one could argue that self voting is a productive way to end RVS and I don't agree with that at all.

Well, if somehow I do get lynched, look for scum on my wagon. There's only 8 available votes, and there are 5 needed to lynch and I can't see 5 town voting for this RC thing. Or even 4, really...Gotta go...

So who of Cheekyteeky, Micc, and nothsidegal is most likely to be scum on your wagon?

[CheekyTeeky]

cheeky why did you abandon your push on cabd when he responded to at most one of the three points you raised against him?

Well that's a skewed interpretation if ever I saw one. He's answered at least 3 points, I use my vote as a tool to gain insight rather than as an accusation. Saying I'm abandoning my wagon is pretty strong, given I haven't even moved my vote yet. And, it's pretty weird that this half-assed push on me about intending to seek information elsewhere is the only part of the content I've provided that you care to comment on. Are you feeling threatened by Cabd? Why do you think town cares about how their vote changing looks to town?

VOTE: Sobo

[Sobolev Space]

so by my count cheeky:

First off he enters without providing any indication of early reads, when there's only one page to go off, so it wouldn't be hard to skim and then enter announcing any thoughts to help progress the game.

this went unresponded to by cabd unless u count 60 as a response which i'm not inclined to because that was talking about rvs voting in specific, not outing reads.

Second, his "loaded gun" response to being questionned about not RVS voting, feels dramatic and out of place, like the emphasis is on being reasonable about voting, but we're not out of the RVS woods yet.

this was responded to in 60

Third, he comments on his own replacement slot by saying that rc doesn't like town, thats probably why he replaced, but that the point is also null. I'm not sure what the point of this comment is, if not to subtly put in our minds that his slot is town.

this went unresponded to by cabd.

am i missing something? this is what i meant when i said he responded to at most one of your three points

so why did your mind change on cabd between 59 and 63? do you no longer believe the first and third points you made have any merit? if so why?

[Cabd]

I'm going to specifically state I'm not going to wade into this until space is done with cheeky

[Sobolev Space]

see ya on the other side cabd

[Cabd]

see ya on the other side cabd

Sure. Syryana sends his regards.

[CheekyTeeky]

Post 67 is more specific. I thought you meant overall, as I have noticed 3 comments from him on his play. I did notice that he didn't answer certain points, but that give me info. If I tunneled someone everytime a question went unanswered I'd probably get nowhere fast. I think I need to put it out there that I change track very quick, I play unpredictably and do a lot of OMGUS type play. I do analyse what is said and what is not said. For example when you did not answer the questions I posed to you, I assumed you are more likely town than scum for doing so, but that is just one point. Your stances feel more townie than I initially thought, but I'm happy where my vote is for now.

[Sobolev Space]

okay but you still didn't really answer my question which was

did you still believe those two unanswered points were valid when you made 63?

Like i'm asking is it the case that:
a) you didn't believe those points were valid when making 59 and thus also didn't believe them when making 63 even though nobody else discussed them;
b) you did believe them when making 59 but changed your mind before making 63 for some reason; or
c) you did believe them when making 59 and still believed them when making 63 but other things cabd did overrode your otherwise valid reasons to scumread him?

if its c - which i suspect it is - what did cabd do in his responses to make you tr him? was it solely the fact that he didn't rebut your case point by point?

[Sobolev Space]

see ya on the other side cabd

Sure. Syryana sends his regards.

lol ripppp

[CheekyTeeky]

okay but you still didn't really answer my question which was

did you still believe those two unanswered points were valid when you made 63?

Like i'm asking is it the case that:
a) you didn't believe those points were valid when making 59 and thus also didn't believe them when making 63 even though nobody else discussed them;
b) you did believe them when making 59 but changed your mind before making 63 for some reason; or
c) you did believe them when making 59 and still believed them when making 63 but other things cabd did overrode your otherwise valid reasons to scumread him?

if its c - which i suspect it is - what did cabd do in his responses to make you tr him? was it solely the fact that he didn't rebut your case point by point?

Ok this is kinda overwhelming. I'm going to go with D. I believed the points and believed that I have some info to go off and am looking for info elsewhere. I thought I said that already.