Micro 759: Tarot uPick III - Game Over!

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #375 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:15 pm

Post by Jabarkas Mayonnaise »

In post 371, acidphoenix wrote:
In post 365, acidphoenix wrote:viewtopic.php?p=9802614#p9802614

content tonight or tomorrow hopefully; sorry for lack thereof so far
l2read
Vote's staying until you nut up and make good on that promise
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In post 374, nancy wrote:I am very tired and not capable of putting out ~words~ but not seeing anything to make me think that Varsoon/Yeti/northsidegal doesn't contain the team here. acid votes are very ??? in that I haven't seen any reasoning put forth for why he's mafia other than "not present" which is super unconvincing, don't think he's likely to flip mafia at all.
Nancy, are you unaware of how voting pressure works?
Because if you legitimately are; I really want you to understand.
Acid doesn't have any posts that help me read their alignment.
I'm voting there because I'm hoping that the threat of being closer to being lynched will encourage them to engage with the game and create content that will make it easier to determine his alignment one way or another.

-V
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Post Post #376 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:17 pm

Post by Jabarkas Mayonnaise »

Like, holy shit, am I the only motherfucker in this game who knows how to play mafia and actually wants to play this game? Because every one of you chumps is dialing in the most lackluster performance possible.

-V
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Post Post #377 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:18 pm

Post by Jabarkas Mayonnaise »

Literally if I had a goddamn infinite vig shot, I'd just shoot all of you.

-V
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Post Post #378 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:31 pm

Post by nancy »

I've been lackluster because my energy is spent elsewhere, sorry. Am sure it'll change before long.

Am not really into pressure voting and mostly find it to be a smokescreen but I get the thought behind it, I can understand the vote better if that's what you're doing.
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Post Post #379 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:05 pm

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In post 376, Jabarkas Mayonnaise wrote:Like, holy shit, am I the only motherfucker in this game who knows how to play mafia and actually wants to play this game? Because every one of you chumps is dialing in the most lackluster performance possible.

-V
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Post Post #380 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:20 pm

Post by drealmerz7 »

v, I am just skimming a bit atm because I'm a little spent after maplewood, not really taking anything in or focusing at all, but it's only because the Day is long and it is a micro

it's the sort of game that can have early lulls and be okay imo, and I'm taking advantage of those things atm so I can get into it more going forward, as it appears I have some stuff to address!

I'll certainly do my dilligence before it gets too much longer in the Day, and am looking forward to when I look forward to it :þ
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Post Post #381 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:49 pm

Post by Jabarkas Mayonnaise »

In post 378, nancy wrote:I've been lackluster because my energy is spent elsewhere, sorry. Am sure it'll change before long.

Am not really into pressure voting and mostly find it to be a smokescreen but I get the thought behind it, I can understand the vote better if that's what you're doing.
Explain to me how pressuring a player to produce alignment indicative content is a smokescreen.
In post 380, drealmerz7 wrote:v, I am just skimming a bit atm because
Yeah, you and everyone else in the game.
It's really hard to care about this shit when no one else seems to.

-V
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Post Post #382 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:53 pm

Post by Porkens »

How about a 250 word minimum content post or else get lynched?
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Post Post #383 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:01 pm

Post by northsidegal »

VOTE: jabarkas

recent posts are lamist. jabarkas' push has a lot of bark but no bite – nothing is actually accomplished by what he's doing other than projecting the image of "i'm frustrated with the lack of actitvity". explicitly saying that you're pressure voting someone doesn't mean anything, and pushing against lurkers is a great way to look like you're contributing while really not accomplishing much.
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Post Post #384 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:03 pm

Post by Jabarkas Mayonnaise »

In post 382, Porkens wrote:How about a 250 word minimum content post or else get lynched?
While that dips into policy-lynch territory (which DOES offer players a smokescreen/easy excuse to wagon other players), it would be a good place to start. I'm not thinking people are going to jump into this game with a fully informed strong readslist, but, fuck, post
something
, y'know?

-V
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Post Post #385 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:12 pm

Post by Jabarkas Mayonnaise »

In post 383, northsidegal wrote:VOTE: jabarkas

recent posts are lamist. jabarkas' push has a lot of bark but no bite – nothing is actually accomplished by what he's doing other than projecting the image of "i'm frustrated with the lack of actitvity". explicitly saying that you're pressure voting someone doesn't mean anything, and pushing against lurkers is a great way to look like you're contributing while really not accomplishing much.
Glad to see you taking the bait of "Look at me! I am doing something now! I'm voting you! ahahah!" Trash.
Let me explain how off-base you are:
1. Expressing frustration with lack of activity while actively voting an inactive player is a call for action and a push to get that player and others to post. Obviously fucking worked, as your post is indicative of it.
2. "Explicitly saying you're pressure voting someone doesn't mean anything" -- In some cases, this can be true, but in the case of expressing that my vote exists to put a player closer to lynch and will stay there until they produce content that convinces me they aren't scum; that's a FUCKING VOTE, that's the only way in which I can operate towards my goddamn wincon, and expressing the pressure dynamic in this situation does not mitigate the reality of that pressure. There's this stupid fuckoff idea that 'pressure votes' are not votes intended to lynch a player--they can be if players mean them that way, but I fully intend for this vote to lead to either a lynch or a production of content that clears a player within a reasonable doubt.
3. Pushing lurkers is the only fucking option in this game as literally 7/10 of the game have less posts than me and, I'd argue, only nancy has a comparable amount of content. To me, you are all lurkers. Furthermore, this is the only game I'm playing in and I'm not moderating anything right now--I refresh this game every ten minutes or so, and seeing no one post anything is incredibly frustrating. Of course I'm going to make a push and try to get the game moving.

I can see where you could be coming from (if your joindate is reflective of your relative mafia and on-site experience) because a lot of the empty platitudes you've championed here are the kind of things that sound good to rally behind, but that doesn't exonerate you as town nor condemn you as scum. At least, I'm grateful that you're doing something.

-V
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Post Post #386 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:13 pm

Post by nancy »

Varsoon I care, I just don't have the energy needed to dedicate to this game right now. Wish I did, but it's not really in my control. If you want to talk to me about anything specific I can try to give brief responses as far as I'm able but I'm not able to drive anything right now.

Smokescreen because in short I think giving people stuff to engage with like questions or reads is much more useful than putting votes down and using votes to pressure people allows for more situations for mafia to blend in. Putting a vote on someone purely for pressure in most cases doesn't do anything in itself and reduces the value of your vote; it's putting votes on someone with reasoning on why you think they're mafia that I think allows interactions and reads to happen, and those are things that can happen just as easily without the votes. When the emphasis is on the votes over conversation it's just another way for mafia to justify bad lynches.
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Post Post #387 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:15 pm

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In post 355, Not Known 15 wrote:I definitely want a reaction to your last, interesting post here, Yeti. From those who are deemed questionable.
I can't say that lynching players you don't think are scum is a great idea. This post was pretty sketch in general.
Hmmm but I don't know if Dunker is town or scum. They could be both. I only said it was probably not indicative for scum(dunker). Not that it is indicative for town(dunker). And if they are town, they have a high chance of messing up. In my opinion, Dunker is unreadably anti-town every time; at least that is what their games suggest.
Are you buddying me? Considering how you've treated every other slot in the game, the way you seem to lack even a shred of suspicion towards me is odd.

In post 356, Jabarkas Mayonnaise wrote:
In post 353, nancy wrote:Just as bad how?
Sparse and non-committal, though it's as if Acid is a non-entity, whereas LUV was actively dodgy and LUV's replace was one-note so far.

@Yetichain:
Ah, well, I definitely meant the latter. Like, you asked for clarification on what I meant and the latter is clarification on what I meant. Jabarkas doesn't always words good.

-V
When I ask for clarification I don't expect a complete change in meaning.

In post 357, Porkens wrote: On Jabarkas, it's half Varsoon. We had beef recently when he jumped at me/used my play style as reasons to try to lynch me in two previous games, it got heated. We are cool now, but these coherent paragraphs are a far cry from the insults and bad attitude I've experienced from him previous. So I'm emotionally glad that we aren't fighting any more. On the other hand, it's such a departure that I don't know how to deal with it. So wispy washy on my part, I know.
I saw him react to your playstyle in Paint. You are being nowhere near as troublesome here as you were there, so I don't know why you'd expect him to be jumping down your throat about it?

In post 376, Jabarkas Mayonnaise wrote:Like, holy shit, am I the only motherfucker in this game who knows how to play mafia and actually wants to play this game? Because every one of you chumps is dialing in the most lackluster performance possible.

-V
Hmm hmm. This feels out of nowhere. Raging over the gamestate does nothing to change it, voting a lurker does very little. Is your hydra buddy around? Are they half as scummy as you?


-Key

PEdit: gosh, there's some ripples in the water. I approve of the Jabarkas vote for now.
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Post Post #388 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:22 pm

Post by nancy »

Don't find 383 to be believable at all; think Varsoon's posting all of this page has been very town and the reasoning I'm seeing there makes a ton of sense to me if northsidegal is mafia here thinking that Varsoon is an easy target due his frustration and very little sense if she's town trying to understand whether Varsoon's frustrating is real and responding to it in an honest and equal manner.
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Post Post #389 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:23 pm

Post by Jabarkas Mayonnaise »

I've expressed what I'm voting the slot and expecting to get from it--in the same way that you might vote a slot and ask it a question (in order to justify?/inform the vote), I've expressed the situation from which my vote's arisen and why it continues to exist where it does.

I get where you're coming from, but couldn't it be just as much of a 'smokescreen' to vote a player and just conjure questions for the purposes of seeming town for the vote? I could easily ask acid plenty of questions about the game, but that'd be contrary to my point in pushing him as it'd
1. Be leading (as it would seek to make his first content drop adhere to where I'm directing attention)
2. Not be informed whatsoever by anything acid has done so far, as there is no content from which I can really base informed and interrogative questions behind.

If anything, taking meaningless questions behind my vote here WOULD be LAMIST, imo.

Though I do get where you're coming from and I believe that's a fairly reasonable standard to hold when there is more content to play around and more stuff in a player's iso to suss out/question.

I will hold, however, that a vote always have the same mechanical value of putting a player one vote closer to lynch, no matter what. If you want to argue that empty votes reduce the rhetorical thrust of a wagon, sure, but I do not think that my vote and expressed expectations fall nearly in the same realm.

And it's okay if personal life is dragging you from the game. If it's serious, I'd hate to see you replace out because you've been really pleasant and actually have served as one of the better guiding voices in this game so far.
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Post Post #390 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:28 pm

Post by Jabarkas Mayonnaise »

@Yetichain: I don't see that the meaning is changed significantly, just your interpretation of it which, hey, that's the point of elaboration, is it not?
I don't know why Xiao's posted all of, like, one or two times, though he's not nearly as vocal a player as I am. I can give him a bit of a shakeup and tell him to engage with the game if you want, but, y'know, I'm here now, so why even deflect like that to my hydra partner. In fact, why even say something like, "Is your hydra buddy around? Are they half as scummy as you?"

Also, you're literally fucking wrong about the 'raging about the gamestate' bullshit that you're putting out, because it's very obvious within just the last two pages, based on my actions and the reactions of others, that the game state HAS changed dramatically. So, y'know, maybe don't literally deny the reality of the situation in order to spout a platitude to defend a vote you have and give platform to the replace-in who's parroting you and yes-manning your wagon.

-V
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Post Post #391 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:29 pm

Post by northsidegal »

your post did noting to induce me to action. you seem to have the idea that i'm just making the choice to ignore this game - you couldn't be more wrong. at the moment i'm incredibly busy with real life, but even still i'm spending time playing mafia that i probably shouldn't be. i will post when i get the opportunity. be ostensibly frustrated all you want, but it can't make me less busy. it's not even like this is some kind of long term issue at this point - we have more than a week to deadline and like i said, i'll be less busy in the very near future.
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Post Post #392 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:30 pm

Post by nancy »

Yeah I find your reasoning there very understandable; though I didn't mean to imply that you should've asked questions with your vote. Think it's very much just a difference in playstyle.

Won't be replacing out, don't worry, am really glad you feel that I've been pleasant so far as that's very important to me.
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Post Post #393 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:33 pm

Post by northsidegal »

nancy, how does frustration make someone an easy target? it already seemed to me like varrsoon was faking - i didn't feel the need to see any more of it.
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Post Post #394 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:35 pm

Post by Jabarkas Mayonnaise »

If you shouldn't be playing the game, replace out and let someone who does have the time to enjoy and engage with the game to fill the slot. If your real life is busy, don't let this game be a distraction from more important things--you're doing yourself, all the players, and the moderator a disservice if that's the case.

Again, the mention of deadline comes up as a justification for producing either no content or weak content--it is decidedly against town interests to push critical decisions closer to a deadline. It means that players have less information to base their judgments off of and, often, deadline lynches do not catch scum. This is coming from a moderator who's seen tons of deadline lynches in his own games and others.

As much as you'd like to take some high-ground here with my post 'not inducing you into action,' that's literally untrue, as your post 383 is entirely composed of engagement with my posts. Had I not made those posts, then you would not have acted the way you did, nor written the things you did, as the things you wrote are literally a response to the posts of mine in question and your vote, assumably, grows from the concerns voiced there. Why do you insist that my post did not induce you into action? Why is that an important note to lead on, for you?

-V
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Post Post #395 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:38 pm

Post by nancy »

People who make a lot of noise tend to arouse ire.
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Post Post #396 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:48 pm

Post by Jabarkas Mayonnaise »

...especially by people who stand on the faulty platform that 'pushing lurkers is scummy'.
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Post Post #397 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:48 pm

Post by nancy »

northsidegal when you have the time could you run me through your thoughts on Varsoon from as early in the game as you had any to now? You're my strongest scumread right now and I haven't seen much from you in the way of thoughts from other players so if you're town here being a little more transparent with where you're at and what your thought process has been on Varsoon and maybe ~1-2 other slots would be very helpful in getting me to see that.

Also aware that I haven't responded to your 360 and will get to that soon as I'm able.
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Post Post #398 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:55 pm

Post by drealmerz7 »

I care! like I said, and explained

varsoon's ire sounds a little faked, I think you know how it is / can be, varsoon, and with the things I said (early D1 micro) it's all good

it'll form and be a thing without AFJAL;KFJAODFJGOOO
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Post Post #399 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:58 pm

Post by Jabarkas Mayonnaise »

I know how it can be, but saying "That's how games are; no one really posts anything until 72 hours before deadline hits" reinforces a site meta where that's the case. As a player and moderator who hates that shit, I'm going to actively stand against it when I have the chance to.
I know things will form, which is why that's hardly my focus now. The game is happening now. People are voting. There's content to engage with. No one's got an excuse not to be a part of things now besides RL distractions.

-V
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