Micro 789 - Alternating 9p - Mafia wins

[BuJaber]

Noob lylo mistake from my part with the early vote

[BlackVoid]

I thought about leaving BV alive to counterclaim him as cop today, lol.

I thought that this might be the case. That's why I kept checking your profile to see if you were online. I really, really wish you did since it would have been a town win for sure due to me pointing out that you were online towards the end of D2 but didn't post and the fact that I investigated GreenLiquid last night.

I was going to use ZZZX's quickhammer on N_M to show that he was softing even then. He didn't want pressure to turn on him so he hammer Not_Mafia before anyone could move the wagon.

[BlackVoid]

I'm the one that said you were obvtown. I disagree with your logic precisely because of what happened. Your best bet is to lynch the most obvious scum first and then go all out trying to figure out who the other scum is. I've seen too many times town lose because they vote against someone who believes they have no chance of convincing. But the real wins come when you actually try to convince them. If you had lynched Lovebird, somehow figured out in LYLO that GreenLiquid was scum and voted him, you never know what Cheeky might have done but it's worth a try.

[BuJaber]

Yeah omg it was 5 alive.. I counted BV with the living players even though I knew he died.

I don't know if it would have been enough I was pretty tunneled on cheeky by the end there but yeah at 3p lylo there was a chance she and I could reach an understanding. So I apologize. Also sorry NM you are pretty good at reading people I wish you would start posting a little more so people could read you better. I was comparing this game with the one where mathdino replaced in at lylo and you were a bit more aggresive there with your reads even if they were wrong.

[BuJaber]

Don't discount how bad for us it was that zz and chris lurked. Two town lurkers. If they posted game would have taken a different turn

[Iconeum]

That's true. And the Buj/Cheeky/Ico fighting didn't help us, either.

[Iconeum]

GL played great I think. I know some scumread him correctly, but still.

[Ankamius]

I'm sorry I miscalculated I thought we needed 4 to lynch today so I wanted to see how people vote and then Icon could come in and hammer.

Cheeky now you're saying I'm obvtown?
You had me confused too much I couldn't see you as town.
I knew you couldn't be scum with GL. GL was pretty obvious to me as scum until you started hyperposting in day 2 after ank replaced in. If you notice GL didn't do much to stop the love wagon because he scumread her so couldn't. You and ank derailing the love wagon looked to me like a scumclaim. I didn't think any scum would be defending them and push for other people as much as you (and to some extent ank) did unless love was their buddy. Ank flipped town so you had to be the scum with love.
So I had a choice to lynch love first or you first. I chose you because I figured town!GL would definitely lynch love over me in lylo but if you were alive his tunnel on me might blind him.
Love/GL team was in my mind but I thought that there was no way you would vote for GL at lylo and I would also be inclined to vote for you so what the hell if you are town I wanted to rip the bandaid as soon as possible and end this horrible game.

Can I get an apology now that people know I'm town? Was very frustrating. Day 1 I understand most of you never played with me but by the time we got to ank replacement time I felt I was so obvious.
We would have lynched love according to plan if nobody pushed me.

Sorry if I upset anyone during the heated moments.

Well... I thought I was obvtowning pretty hard too, but I was still getting scumread by most of the playerlist for... frankly, really silly reasons.

The bias you had against Love was the fundamental reason you pinged me so hard. It's not impossible for town to townread your scumreads, and it was very difficult to understand why you were doing what you were doing because you buried all that in walls, all saying very similar things. I see that more often from scum that don't have a case, so they try to force their reads down everyone's throats until it gets pushed through.

[Ankamius]

BlackVoid, here's the thing:

I made an effort to try to reason with you because you were confirmed town and I knew I needed to convince everyone I was town in order for town to have a reasonable shot at winning. I usually don't explain my thoughts to that extent because it doesn't help lynch scum unless I already have a strong influence over the town (in which case I abuse that as much as I can since I've never had a game as town where I have that much influence and live to see daylight two days from then). I play lone wolf when I'm under suspicion and my usual method of scumhunting relies on forcing scum to build the case against them instead of giving them all my cards immediately, which results in them knowing exactly how to deflect it. This is why I don't think the evidence-based playstyle is a very good one; it's good at detecting certain logical faults that someone is making, but it is very weak to scum that keep careful track of that and show their weakness through conviction. That's the type of scum I catch much more easily.

[Ankamius]

There's also the fact that I am a slow-roll player. I just felt I was on a good vibe this game and knew I would be able to solve the game eventually if I tweak my view of the gamestate enough, I just didn't get enough time to reach the critical moment that Lovebird not coming in and engaging with me was a scumtell and that my vendetta against BuJaber was just as much bias as his case on me was.

[BlackVoid]

@Ank, it's definitely not unlikely for town to townread scum even if they were universally scumread. I think when you came in townreading Lovebird, a lot of us fell into the trap of assuming that you were either defending your partner or townreading someone you knew to be town and the lynch kinda swayed towards you. I could have definitely spent more time explaining to you why I was scumreading Lovebird. My biggest issue was that I never understood what exactly made you townread her. That coupled with your POE somehow winding up with me and my biggest townread BuJaber being the ones you weren't townreading made me think the reads were fake.

If this was you explaining your thoughts, I don't know what you play like in other games, lol. My biggest problem with was that I was trying to get you to make really in-depth posts with explanations and they just weren't coming no matter what.

I think you are misunderstanding what I mean when I say going with the evidence. I don't mean trying to figure out logical flaws in people's plays because oftentimes town make logical leaps just as much as scum. I just mean weighing the evidence rather than just going with your gut or just because you have a feeling that x might be scum. I think the fact that we only had 48 hours after replacement hurt us because Lovebird avoided the thread during that entire time.

[BlackVoid]

I guess I'm used to being generally townread as town so townreading all these other people and saying me and BuJaber were the least town seemed really weird to me.

[BuJaber]

BV pretty much nailed it with the first paragraph.
I'm sorry you felt I was biased. It was probably some blindisidedness and also the fact that cheeky seemed to perk up when he saw you posting but was sort of scumreading you and townreading you and flip flopping a lot. I had convinced myself Love v Your slot was TvS. I was also convinced that lynching love even if she is town was the absolutely best lynch at the time. I got so wrapped up in the excitement that I had solved the game I wasn't able to fully see things from your pov. It just seemed obvious to me that love had to be lynched and also that I do not make sense with any body else as a team. Once I explained that several times and went through my PoE of scum teams I figured people would agree to lynch love. It came as a little shock that you and cheeky kept disagreeing.

I think you had the disadvantage of replacing in late. I really feel some of the things you were saying could not be acceptable by anybody who was here from the start.

Ehh live and learn. I should have stuck to my guns amd continued to scumread GL no matter what other people did and also insisted on lynching love first. Cheeky self-voting etc did not make sense to me from a townie. I don't know why she felt so threatened. Yes we were suspecting her but she would have only been lynched the next day. And we could have maybe talked about it some more then. Imagine if she had hammered love. Void wouldn't have been outed. Cheeky would have looked a lot townier and GL would have been in a really difficult situation.

[Ankamius]

Thats the thing, BV. I never do that. My brain doesn't function that way.

[Ankamius]

I thought I made it clear too that I was willing to discuss reads too :/

GL was actually starting to sway me away from that read.

[Lovebird]

Still for real don't understand why people scumread me.

[Ankamius]

@Ank, it's definitely not unlikely for town to townread scum even if they were universally scumread. I think when you came in townreading Lovebird, a lot of us fell into the trap of assuming that you were either defending your partner or townreading someone you knew to be town and the lynch kinda swayed towards you. I could have definitely spent more time explaining to you why I was scumreading Lovebird. My biggest issue was that I never understood what exactly made you townread her. That coupled with your POE somehow winding up with me and my biggest townread BuJaber being the ones you weren't townreading made me think the reads were fake.

If this was you explaining your thoughts, I don't know what you play like in other games, lol. My biggest problem with was that I was trying to get you to make really in-depth posts with explanations and they just weren't coming no matter what.

I think you are misunderstanding what I mean when I say going with the evidence. I don't mean trying to figure out logical flaws in people's plays because oftentimes town make logical leaps just as much as scum. I just mean weighing the evidence rather than just going with your gut or just because you have a feeling that x might be scum. I think the fact that we only had 48 hours after replacement hurt us because Lovebird avoided the thread during that entire time.

Now that a desktop, I can respond to this more easily.

I'm weird in that I play each faction like they were the other. I play scum very open and put a lot of my thoughts in the thread since I'm trying to avoid attention. I play town closed and very deliberately; I abuse the fact that people don't know my thoughts in order to force them to play into me instead of being able to push back, which generally gives me my strongest reads and is the primary way that I get my lynches pushed through. I've found that when someone pings me and I make a case against them... nobody ever agrees, or even understands them. Furthermore, the scum finds a rebuttal that shuts it down and then it's over, despite me being right. So, I force scum to make a case against themselves and watch as the town slowly (or sometimes rapidly) catch on to what I've done and lynch them.

I've actually done a lot more explanations of where I'm coming from this game than I usually do, but I spread them out because I'm stream-of-conscious and usually figuring out my own thoughts at the same time. It probably has to do with the fact that I got a lot of townreads more easily than scumreads.

I think you had the disadvantage of replacing in late. I really feel some of the things you were saying could not be acceptable by anybody who was here from the start.

I think everybody forgot that I didn't read anything from day 1. I got reads solely from day 2 posts and worked from there.

[Ankamius]

.

This isn't why my read on you deteriorated, but I noted at some point that your thoughts were very in-the-moment and had very little outside-motivation holding them together.

[BuJaber]

Still for real don't understand why people scumread me.

Generally passive behavior. Occasional lurking. Reads felt lazy at times. You didn't really build 'cases' on people just sort of plain reads.

I dunno. Sometimes it's a lot of gut feeling.
But that 3 way convo early day 1 between you rask and GL was definitely not organic conversation amongst townies led me to suspect 1 scum was in that group. Turns out it was 2 scum.

[Kmd4390]

Scum PT:

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=75396&p=10016260#p10016260

[Scummies]

Congratulations to the victors!

The game has drawn to a close, the jig is up! Some of you have lost, but others have won!

Take a few days, think about the game. Recognize what was best in your teammates and opponents, and consider nominating them for a Scummy! Players and mods in this game may be eligible for one of the following awards:

BODY OF WORK AWARDS

Best Mafia Catcher

: Also known as the Paragon of Mafia Hunters, this award is given to the single town player who, across all of their games for the year, exhibited the best ability for nailing those dirty scumbags and bringing the bad guys to justice while playing as a pro-town role.

Rising Star

: This award is given to the player that is a rising star in the game of mafia, showing great promise to join the elite echelon of mafia players. This award replaces both the Best Newbie award and Most Improved Player awards, and judges may consider elements of both those previous awards in deciding this award.

Excellent Moderation

: Also known as the “The Modfather” Award. This award is given to the moderator who, over the course of the past year, exemplifies the best qualities of a moderator in the operation of the game, including but not limited to quality and frequency of vote counts, organization of the game, dealing with issues that arise, keeping players active, and so forth. Judges may consider how challenging the games a moderator ran were, but they shall not penalize a moderator for only running more basic games. A mod must run at least 3 games to completion in the calendar year to be considered for this award.

SINGLE GAME - PLAYER

Most Cunning Manipulator

: Also known as the “Don Corleone” Award. Awarded to the player who has the strongest single game performance as mafia. In rare cases, where a player feels an entire scumteam gelled to create a strong cohesive scum performance, multiple members of a team may be nominated.

Best Performance Third Party

: Also known as the “Hannibal Lecter” Award. Awarded to the player or players that performed the most impressively in winning their game as a third party.

Most Memorable Event

: Also known as the “Kodak Moment” Award. Awarded to the player or players who were involved in the most memorable event in a game of mafia. Fake claims, funny claims, awesome exchanges, etc. may all be considered for this award

SINGLE GAME - MODERATOR

Best Setup

: Also known as the “Rube Goldberg” Award. Given to the moderator who designed the best setup. Judges may consider the roles involved in a game, how those roles interacted, how balanced a setup was, whether it furthered any particular theme, how the setup interacts with a mechanic, or any other factors the judges deem relevant. This award is distinct, however, from the “Best Mechanic” award in that it does not consider how good or bad any change to the basic way a Mafia game is played.

Best Flavor Text

: Also known as the “Paperback Writer” Award. Given to the moderator who wrote the most compelling flavor text. Judges should consider the flavor text of all parts of the game, including Role PMs and Day/Night scenes. Where appropriate, Judges may consider how well the flavor works with the announced theme.

Best Mechanic/Mutation

: Also known as the "Mad Scientist” Award. Given to the moderator who figured out the most compelling way to change the basic mechanics of the game of mafia, and/or created the most compelling new role or adaptation to increase player enjoyment. Judges shall consider both the basic idea behind the game as well as how well it was executed, and the uniqueness and quality of the role/adaptation.

SITE AWARDS

Game of the Year

: Also known as the “Player’s Choice” Award. This award is given to the moderator of a game. It is given in recognition of the overall excellence of a game. The Game of the Year award is a "catch all" award for the best overall game throughout the entire year, considering all aspects of the game from moderator quality, to the excellent design and composition of the game, to the performance and cohesion of the playerlist. A Game of the Year is meant to be the game that we can all point to later and say "This game was the best game the site could offer that year in terms of Design, Playerlist, and moderating capability." This is a PUBLIC VOTE. [/color]

The

2018 Scummies thread

is located here.
You may nominate a player or moderator for an award using this form.

[Micc]