Micro 798 - Splatoon Mafia - Game Over

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@Vartsun: That's a gross misrep if I've ever seen one. I didn't say votes don't matter. I said we can't decide someone's alignment from a D1 wagon that is composed of 3 votes when we haven't had one flip yet. I may become more significant when we do have a flip or 2 to analyze. Otherwise, let me check.. hold on a second..

[skitter30]

Well, that's disappointing that he can't answer.

Yep. I want brass to answer some stuff too and he's gone now ...

I'd probably be voting there if it wasn't an empty slot I think

[doomfeathers]

Misrep? Good grief, I am sick of hearing that word. Anybody up for lynching Vartsun and getting it over with?

[skitter30]

Not really feeling scum!vartsun right now tbh

I like how ultimately worked things out with ausuka and tried to understand her POV.

I dislike how brass framed them asking about people's votes as 'minimizing votes people made that weren't an ausuka' cuz I don't think vartsun did that anywhere; that makes brass scummier than vartsun and I don't think both of them are scum together.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Sorry it took me longer than I thought. I didn't think we had that many 3-vote wagons, but here goes:

VOTE: HS

Hi!! It's been a while

@mod

: I'm always v/la on Fridays and Saturdays

VOTE: Human Sequencer

ok
VOTE: Human Sequencer

I'm confirmed a townie on page 1

VOTE: Vartsun

You're a kid now, you're a squid now

sup skitter
i don't remember were you scum or town in that newbie game
i could look it up but i'm lazy

tfw in a game that gamma emerald is also in and can't vote gamma emerald for rvs cuz he's the mod
what tragic times we live in

VOTE: vartsun
hydra means confscum

lycanfire wagon is meh, nothing AI.
your hydra might be scum though.
VOTE: Vartsun

Vartsun is confirmed at the top of page 2

And then Ausuka by the top of page 4.

Now can somebody tell me why Voys is town (for that particular reason) and not me and/or Vartsun? I mean you can literally say they're confirmed to you through meta or through being masons or through a day cop check, but don't tell me she's town because she had 3 votes on her at some point when nobody seems to really care where they're voting.

With your logic; we should be lynching Ausuka because she was on all three 3-vote wagons. Does that even make sense to you?

Wait. There's more..

I actually think I want to VOTE: mylo.

I'm okay with this, Vartsun is townier now.
VOTE: Myloninja

VOTE: mylo

This is the third vote, it takes 5 to lynch so that means L-2

That's Mylo reaching L-2 as well, and -again- Ausuka is on the wagon. Easy game.

Hold on. Here's another one: brass is put to L-2 @post 181. We have another winner. Piece of cake.

Mylo hits L-2 again by post 207. Must be a PR then.

Now, can somebody tell me again why Voyc is town

precisely because she had 3 votes on her?

I'd also like to note Vartsun seems to OMGUS vote more often than not. It's not a scumtell in my book either, but maybe someone wants to scum read them for it while -simultaneously- town read them for having hit the 3-votes town-license limit.

Sorry to have wasted your time. Carry on.

[doomfeathers]

You're forgetting that some scum purposely ignore wagons on them, though. I know I have. Or they and their partners could have been offline until it passed; there's been a lot of inactivity this game.

Thought-provoking and +townpoints, though.

[doomfeathers]

Wait, never mind. I get what you're saying, and agree. Townpoints remain in effect.

[Ausuka]

rn I'm thinking nero is town. I still like the myloninja wagon very much.

[Vartsun]

Misrep? Good grief, I am sick of hearing that word. Anybody up for lynching Vartsun and getting it over with?

Lynching the most active and engaged town player would be a win for scum; I'm sure there's at least two people who'd really like that.

@Dredd : Can you go back and check who was pushing Ausuka the hardest for the most time so far? Hoh boy.
And don't move the goalposts with phrases like:

That's a gross misrep if I've ever seen one. I didn't say votes don't matter. I said we can't decide someone's alignment from a D1 wagon that is composed of 3 votes when we haven't had one flip yet.

When your original post was literally...

To reiterate: putting anyone @L-2 (3 votes) is totally NAI to me. They could be town or scum, and the voters can be of either alignments too.

Oh hey looks like there's no mention of flips mattering in your original post, just that 3 votes/L-2 is NAI to you.
It's not a 'misrep' at all, you literally didn't write what you intended to convey.
So you can keep your whole overblown response in your pants, chucklehead.


-V

[Vartsun]

rn I'm thinking nero is town. I still like the myloninja wagon very much.

Can you elaborate a little on each?
I'm curious how you came to these conclusions.


Also

@MOD: I'm going to be moving to a new apt over the course of this weekend and won't have internet.
So the Varsoon head of this Hydra will be V/LA until I've got regular internet again.

-V

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@Vartsun: Get your head out of the place where the sun doesn't shine. I didn't mention flips in my original post because I was referring o the argument at hand, which is in the current situation and time. It goes without saying that reads change as we advance into the game with flips and investigation results. That's a given in any mafia game. You don't want to lynch someone now because you think their posting is pro-town, but later you can see that it was designed to mislead the town. You defend someone today because they claimed a PR, but tomorrow the real PR flips and you are all for lynching the person you've been defending. So, I do not know what X' alignment is, not do I know the alignments of their voters, so it's NAI for now. Tomorrow if X flips Town I'd be more suspicious of their voters (but even then it's not damning). If they flip Mafia I'd be trusting their voters more (again, not conclusive as the wagons didn't hit critical points). If any of the voters flipped Town I'd suspect X a bit more, and if any of them flipped Mafia I'd be less suspicious of X.

Now moving on to this

Lynching the most active and engaged town player would be a win for scum; I'm sure there's at least two people who'd really like that.

The fact that you're aware of it and the way you argue it make me think you're doing it on purpose, and if you deliberately do it then it could very well be a facade to hide your alignment behind it. Conclusion: It's NAI (that dreadful term again)

Now here's a little piece of advise: before you respond again, go wash you face.. take a deep breath.. touch your ears and say "Woosah"

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@Vartsun: Get your head out of the place where the sun doesn't shine. I didn't mention flips in my original post because I was referring o the argument at hand, which is in the current situation and time. It goes without saying that reads change as we advance into the game with flips and investigation results. That's a given in any mafia game. You don't want to lynch someone now because you think their posting is pro-town, but later you can see that it was designed to mislead the town. You defend someone today because they claimed a PR, but tomorrow the real PR flips and you are all for lynching the person you've been defending. So, I do not know what X' alignment is, not do I know the alignments of their voters, so it's NAI for now. Tomorrow if X flips Town I'd be more suspicious of their voters (but even then it's not damning). If they flip Mafia I'd be trusting their voters more (again, not conclusive as the wagons didn't hit critical points). If any of the voters flipped Town I'd suspect X a bit more, and if any of them flipped Mafia I'd be less suspicious of X.

Now moving on to this

Lynching the most active and engaged town player would be a win for scum; I'm sure there's at least two people who'd really like that.

The fact that you're aware of it and the way you argue it make me think you're doing it on purpose, and if you deliberately do it then it could very well be a facade to hide your alignment behind it. Conclusion: It's NAI (that dreadful term again)

Now here's a little piece of advise: before you respond again, go wash you face.. take a deep breath.. touch your ears and say "Woosah"

[Ausuka]

rn I'm thinking nero is town. I still like the myloninja wagon very much.

Can you elaborate a little on each?
I'm curious how you came to these conclusions.

Nero has been scumhunting so far and this looks like town!him.

I've already talked about my mylo read and his last post definitely doesn't make that any better. He isn't really scumhunting there, and the reads all feel pretty empty to me? It also makes me feel like my current theory, that the scum are mylo and JJD, is correct. Actually; @myloninja; what posts from HS did you feel were "good posts" and worthy of a townlean?

It's not like I'm sure of my read but I'm not really sure of anything so far, so w/e. Maybe a brass replacement will help.

[Vartsun]

@Dredd: That sure is a lot of words for admitting you're literally wrong and got caught being wrong, but whatever.

@Ausuka: In what ways is the scumhunting (or lack of it) that you see from those slots indicative of a town mentality?

-V

[Vartsun]

The

Taly

head is alive.

I'll post later tonight when my mind has become more at ease with my thoughts in this game.

I work best when given a line of questions, just a FYI to the playerlist.

~ Taly

[doomfeathers]

Misrep? Good grief, I am sick of hearing that word. Anybody up for lynching Vartsun and getting it over with?

Lynching the most active and engaged

town

player would be a win for scum; I'm sure there's at least two people who'd really like that.

Agreed.

Vartsun, what's your read on Myloninja? Would you be willing to join his wagon after his most recent post?

[Vartsun]

I dislike the Voyc wagon though, it came shit-out-of-nowhere almost.

I kinda dislike this. I mean it's not like Taly has to agree with the wagon but Brass ISO'd her and said the meta looks different. Like, there's a HUGE difference between "I dislike it b/c I disagree with the reasoning" and "I dislike it b/c it popped up." So it feels a bit like scum that knows Voyc is town.

vote:Varsun

I don't trust meta reads... almost ever, and I don't feel inclined to follow someone on a meta-read who hasn't really explained it.

71, is a vote

Ausuka

made that I actually brought up to her. 94 There really was not a lot of reasoning as to why

Voyc's

game is so different or like scum-them; and I didn't like the

doomfeathers

vote because in 75,

doomfeathers

said that's not his

"favorite lynch"

, implying that he believes there's a better focus, but he's going along with what he thinks is more likely to get a result... pushing someone to L-2 while stating it's for the purpose of town.

This doesn't feel natural to me, and unless I get an explanation, then I feel like out of the multiple wagons so far; there's likely scum there, or at least,

Voyc

is town.

There was almost no defense here for the wagon.

I've reread this thread twice and I've forgotten how and why half of the wagons in this game have even happened.

Spoiler: Pattern of Votes From What I've Seen

There was the

Vartsun

wagon.
Then some

Ausuka

votes.

HS

wagon happened somewhere.

Mylo

got a wagon.

Voyc

got a wagon.

Mylo's

at a wagon again.

Brass

had some votes on him.

Vartsun's

getting more votes.

And I'm a bit put off that most people seem to like pushing someone to L-2 and then hop off the wagon.

1)

I think we have 2 scum in this game; if town is pushed to a specific point, they can easily be hammered and lynched.

2)

10 pages, and about half the playerlist has been wagoned; this gives information about interactions... but considering this is D1, there's a lot of uncertainty on people's alignments and their motives in this game.

So I feel like the vote-hopping has made the case for waffling and WIFOM much easier for scum.

I'm also frustrated that

Varsoon and I

have been reduced to little in terms of game impact.

To further elaborate on both of our thoughts since the first 3 pages so people understand where we're coming from:

Varsoon and I

were frustrated over being scumread and voted because I was asking questions, and

Varsoon

was pushing his views. We genuinely felt that the reasons we were voted, were more likely scum-motivated in some form off the pretense that we were pushing for discussion, and I feel that that was misconstrued in the first few pages. Prior to

Varsoon V Ausuka

specifically.

~ Taly

[Vartsun]

The

Taly

head is alive.

I'll post later tonight when my mind has become more at ease with my thoughts in this game.

I work best when given a line of questions, just a FYI to the playerlist.

~ Taly

Scratch this.

I'm telling everyone to give me a line of questions.

I'm struggling to make a full readslist here.

Out of 8 people; I'm only confident in maybe... 2 or 3 reads?

4 of them are town.
4 of them are maybe-scum?

Mathematically, I'm nullreading or scumleaning on town here, so I'm going to start ISO digging individuals here.

Misrep? Good grief, I am sick of hearing that word. Anybody up for lynching Vartsun and getting it over with?

Lynching the most active and engaged

town

player would be a win for scum; I'm sure there's at least two people who'd really like that.

Agreed.

Vartsun, what's your read on Myloninja? Would you be willing to join his wagon after his most recent post?

Of him townreading people and not voting? I don't know, he hasn't really provided much at all, but my gut tells me to wait here; I'm not willing to push him to L-1, at least not before him posting more.

Taly Head Thoughts: Mylo's

null to me; activity is not often AI, and his most notable thing is that his

brass

vote is still on.

Questions to Mylo

1)

Why is your vote still on

brassherald

? He was noted to be replaced out 187, but your latest post was 200 Especially if you're townleaning on him.

2)

How do you feel about

Nero

and

Dredd

?

Misrep? Good grief, I am sick of hearing that word. Anybody up for lynching Vartsun and getting it over with?

This, right here, is why I'm questioning my earlier townread on

doomfeathers

.

I can't tell if this post was to breed apathy or take a lazy route in game solving.

You're pushing

Mylo

, after being on multiple wagons, ((75, 82, 148, 205)) but you're not placing many assessments each time you change your vote.

Just like you did with the

Voyc

vote, you say that you think there's a better lynch/wagon option, but your reasons for voting are to help town, because it's making a discussion point via wagon.

Where I'm failing to understand is, is that there's not a lot of clarity behind your vote changes or reads. You're voting what's convenient.

Either you're intentionally creating confusion,

or

your own thoughts are unclear,

or

you're not helping other players see your perspective.

I'd also like to note Vartsun seems to OMGUS vote more often than not.

Words like OMGUS and LAMIST should never ever be used by town.

~ Taly

[Vartsun]

UNVOTE:

Not keeping a vote on a replacing-out slot.

~ Taly

[Nero Cain]

I don't trust meta reads... almost ever, and I don't feel inclined to follow someone on a meta-read who hasn't really explained it.

ok but that really doesn't line up with your words.

[doomfeathers]

This doesn't feel natural to me, and unless I get an explanation, then I feel like out of the multiple wagons so far; there's likely scum there, or at least,

Voyc

is town.

There was almost no defense here for the wagon.

It was a pressure wagon, at least from what I saw. Problem?

1)

I think we have 2 scum in this game; if town is pushed to a specific point, they can easily be hammered and lynched.

We can only hope so. That would make this game much easier if it happened anytime before LYLO.

2)

10 pages, and about half the playerlist has been wagoned; this gives information about interactions... but considering this is D1, there's a lot of uncertainty on people's alignments and their motives in this game.

So I feel like the vote-hopping has made the case for waffling and WIFOM much easier for scum.

WIFOM's not hard to see past. When TMI becomes a factor, just look elsewhere. This is Mafia; a big-picture perspective is unnecessary. More information allows people to have more choices for places to investigate; it's going to be very hard to convince me that it's a bad thing.

I'm also frustrated that

Varsoon and I

have been reduced to little in terms of game impact.

Not your (Taly's) fault.

Taly Head Thoughts: Mylo's

null to me; activity is not often AI, and his most notable thing is that his

brass

vote is still on.

No, I meant his most recent post. Do you think his reads are genuine?

Misrep? Good grief, I am sick of hearing that word. Anybody up for lynching Vartsun and getting it over with?

This, right here, is why I'm questioning my earlier townread on

doomfeathers

.

I can't tell if this post was to breed apathy or take a lazy route in game solving.

That's my salt at everybody leaving the game instead of policy-lynching your slot (no offense to you personally).

You're pushing

Mylo

, after being on multiple wagons, ((75, 82, 148, 205)) but you're not placing many assessments each time you change your vote.

Just like you did with the

Voyc

vote, you say that you think there's a better lynch/wagon option, but your reasons for voting are to help town, because it's making a discussion point via wagon.

No, I didn't say that. I think Mylo is scum, and I said why in 204.

Either you're intentionally creating confusion,

or

your own thoughts are unclear,

or

you're not helping other players see your perspective.

Did you check my ISO? I stated my reasons for each vote:

Spoiler: Voyc

Is anyone interested in wagoning Voyc? Several people have mentioned that she's scummy. (I still prefer Lycanfire, but I can't do much by myself.)

My first reaction was "Who?" then I reread the thread and she has one post so my reaction is therefore "Why?"

Two posts, actually, and that's the reason. This is the third day IRL; she should have been able to post more than that. However, she does appear to be trying to do something when she does post, unlike Lycanfire, who is apparently just messing around. Also, she's pretty new, and Lycanfire's not so much.

Spoiler: Lycanfire

Seriously, look at this. Lycanfire's been around; he was early this morning. Here's all he's posted:

VOTE: Vartsun

You're a kid now, you're a squid now

Join the

Mylo

vote and you won't think everyone is so weird?

Why?

Taly is a fan of mislynching and losing. You might think they're joking. They're serious about this.

Who is this? XD I'm pretty serious about getting worthwhile discussion going.

I feel like after correctly identifying Varsoon as a killing role day 1 of Darkest Dungeon
and basically having to run the scumteam up until he vigged me on night 3, you shouldn't have to ask who I am if Varsoon thought sorting me early was at all a consideration today.

What kinds if discussion do you want to have?

He's not helping anything; in fact, he seems confused by the suggestion that we need discussion. My gut says he's scum.

Spoiler: Vartsun

I've got to go to bed. I'm leaving my vote on
VOTE: Vartsun

Spoiler: Myloninja

Ausuka is a solid town read for me, just consistent strong play.

Vartsun is the player with the most posts, which means he gets some points as I've generally found the highest posting players town. But his actions, specifically the actions that caused people to leave the game, haven't necessarily been town. Is aggressiveness usually a town tell for Varsoon?

brass is a town lean, but I dunno if there's a good reason for that. I've played with him before, and this seems like how he'd play as town?

doom I just kinda give a town lean to anyway, he's solid, kinda annoyed at the game state, exactly what I've seen doom!town do.

HS is a town lean, for some good posts and not anything directly weird.

Voyc/skitter/Lycan are all meh for me. They just haven't done enough townie things, and some have done a few questionable things.

Myloninja sounds like I do as scum trying to fabricate reads--fumbly and unsure. I call bologna.

UNVOTE:

Not keeping a vote on a replacing-out slot.

~ Taly

Where's your vote?

[Voyc]

@Doom, about your vote on Vartsun on 148, could you point out which posts/logic you saw as shady on your review? You had been giving them some townpoints previously, so I'm curious as to what changed your mind then

@Nero, what do you think of the mylo wagon? Also could you give me a general overview of your current reads :0

[Vartsun]

-_-*...

Earlier today, I typed up a response and my entire computer froze when I was almost finished. I didn't think to save it in notes. :/

So I mini rage-quitted, and I'm going to retype that response to the best of my ability, I'll post again soon.

Again, HMU with questions.

The good thing here is, I'm regaining motivation to play in this game.

~ Taly

[Vartsun]

Spoiler: My Response To Nero

I don't trust meta reads... almost ever, and I don't feel inclined to follow someone on a meta-read who hasn't really explained it.

ok but that really doesn't line up with your words.

I think they do. I'm not going to push a quickwagon to L-1 because someone initially voted for a meta read they didn't explain. Furthermore, the wagon on

Ausuka

was what me and my other head were more focused on because of the

Vartsun V Ausuka

.

I feel like people are finding ways to deflect from a cohesive gameview with their pushes.

Also, why would it be odd to point out that a wagon happened quickly and out-of-nowhere? Where's the scum-motivation in pointing out pushes that someone thinks aren't well-reasoned, or trying to get a better understanding of?

Nobody's really explained that to me, or this:

Ausuka, Brassherald, and Doomfeathers

voted for

Voyc

out of different viewpoints it seemed.

Brass

for meta,

Ausuka

in agreeing with

Brass

- even though that contradicts her 65, and

doomfeathers

because... he didn't want to pursue a better person of suspect in his eyes?

Spoiler: My Response To Doomfeathers

This doesn't feel natural to me, and unless I get an explanation, then I feel like out of the multiple wagons so far; there's likely scum there, or at least,

Voyc

is town.

There was almost no defense here for the wagon.

It was a pressure wagon, at least from what I saw. Problem?

That's not what I gathered from 70 and 75 in terms of a whole wagon.

If you guys were pressure-wagoning her, why were you and

Brass

placing her in your lynchpool?

I did a Voyc search of meta. There's not much, and I do not see a single Scum game from her, but the activity so far does not fit her town meta. I'll throw her into my very early lynch pool.

Voyc's still not my favorite lynch target, but I'll compromise and make a wagon.

VOTE: Voyc
That's L2.

1)

I think we have 2 scum in this game; if town is pushed to a specific point, they can easily be hammered and lynched.

We can only hope so. That would make this game much easier if it happened anytime before LYLO.

2)

10 pages, and about half the playerlist has been wagoned; this gives information about interactions... but considering this is D1, there's a lot of uncertainty on people's alignments and their motives in this game.

So I feel like the vote-hopping has made the case for waffling and WIFOM much easier for scum.

WIFOM's not hard to see past. When TMI becomes a factor, just look elsewhere. This is Mafia; a big-picture perspective is unnecessary. More information allows people to have more choices for places to investigate; it's going to be very hard to convince me that it's a bad thing.

I'm not saying more information is bad. But it doesn't make sense to have your attention jump constantly.

Also, I'd love to see your magical solution of seeing through WIFOM. If there's any WIFOM you've already detected, maybe you should tell me.

I'm also frustrated that

Varsoon and I

have been reduced to little in terms of game impact.

Not your (Taly's) fault.

This quote embodies most of my problems with the playerlist right now.

1)

You seem completely satisfied that someone, who I don't understand how you're reading anymore, has no believed impact on the game. You're both apathetic to us being lynched, and not receptive to our statements.

2)

And yes, I'm saying us as in

Varsoon/I

BECAUSE WE'RE A HYDRA

. We function more closely as one person than two. While you're discrediting

Varsoon

with this statement, you're ignoring any weight I've staked in this game. This is blatantly anti-town.

3)

What makes this worse is, this is literally what I've gathered in half of the playerlist's view toward us is. Which does not serve anything but to create dichotomies and unfairly undermine thoughts.

Taly Head Thoughts: Mylo's

null to me; activity is not often AI, and his most notable thing is that his

brass

vote is still on.

No, I meant his most recent post. Do you think his reads are genuine?

I think his reads are not elaborated on that much and not very effective, but I haven't seen enough to believe it's faked.

Misrep? Good grief, I am sick of hearing that word. Anybody up for lynching Vartsun and getting it over with?

This, right here, is why I'm questioning my earlier townread on

doomfeathers

.

I can't tell if this post was to breed apathy or take a lazy route in game solving.

That's my salt at everybody leaving the game instead of policy-lynching your slot (no offense to you personally).

I don't get the purpose of a policy lynch in general, and I don't know how autolynching us without taking an in depth look at our motives and reasons in this game are sensible.

Want to know what happens when/if Varsoon/I gets PL'ed? We're going to flip town. Another townie's dying N1, and literally nobody's going to find much resolution in their reads at 7p left, presumably a 5-2 setting.

Not good for the town.

You're pushing

Mylo

, after being on multiple wagons, ((75, 82, 148, 205)) but you're not placing many assessments each time you change your vote.

Just like you did with the

Voyc

vote, you say that you think there's a better lynch/wagon option, but your reasons for voting are to help town, because it's making a discussion point via wagon.

No, I didn't say that. I think Mylo is scum, and I said why in 204.

OK yeah, I missed that. But I'm not sure why you think

Mylo's

reads are fabricated?

Either you're intentionally creating confusion,

or

your own thoughts are unclear,

or

you're not helping other players see your perspective.

Did you check my ISO? I stated my reasons for each vote:

1)

54, so you voted

Voyc

based on activity?

2)

55, I mean,

Lycanfire

did ask me a valid question that I don't think I answered.

3)

148, this wasn't a reason for a vote on

me/Varsoon

. You just placed a vote because you couldn't post more that night.

4)

204 Kind of want to see how his reads are fabricated in your eyes.

UNVOTE:

Not keeping a vote on a replacing-out slot.

~ Taly

Where's your vote?

Varsoon's

busy right now, but I'm kind of holding out on voting until I speak and get in sync with him.

~ Taly

[Vartsun]

Come on guys, we've had 5 posts in the last 24 hours and 3 of them have been from me.

Since nobody's really prompted for anything

((besides

Nero

and maybe

doom

?))

, I guess I'll prompt the rest of you.

1)

Skitter30

, what are your thoughts on

doomfeathers

?

2)

Voyc

, your vote has not changed since 10 in RVS...

3)

Ausuka

, what do you like about the

Mylo

wagon?

4)

Mylo

... I thought you'd be able to post more, and an explanation of your vote remaining on

brass

but he's a townlean?

5)

Judge

, is it a protown thing to place someone to L-1 even if you're not scumreading them? How do you feel about the playerlist's vote pattern?

6)

Still waiting for that

brass

replacement.

OMGUS

is an overused term that is meant to solely minimize and undermine someone's reasoning for a vote without truly explaining why a person feels a vote isn't necessary or rational.

The very concept of the word

LAMIST

is stupid, and I didn't even remember this dumb non-scumcatching buzzword being a thing when I signed up and began playing in 2014/2015.

~ Taly