Mafiascum.net

If you are town you should also look at maria's vote for mastina, not just mine.

In post 624, UnaBombaH wrote:We lynch EP today, and scum need to basically kill in me/Ranmaru to keep Maria vs chamber alive for tomorrow?

If I concede that you and ranmaru are town, yes. But I haven't yet, and ranmaru seems to be considering trying to lynch me today out of fear that you will 'mislynch' in lylo.

If they kill me, Ranmaru is confirmed, so Maria heals him.
Scum either has to kill me, or reveal which of the two is Town. Right?

Yes, you have read my intention correctly, Chamber. Now I'll give you a chance to convince me that I'm wrong. Why is it Maria over you?

In post 627, UnaBombaH wrote:If they kill me, Ranmaru is confirmed, so Maria heals him.
Scum either has to kill me, or reveal which of the two is Town. Right?

Well, if it's possible to kill me, they will. One, I'm confirmed innocent. Two, I may have more confidence in my reads then you do so they may want you alive to make the wrong decision. You've already outed that you are out of shots, so they should have no reason to kill you.

This plan would have to require Maria being town here, but we need to figure out the alignments of Chamber/Maria before going forward.

I don't really feel the need to convince you right now. If you vote me you're an idiot. Not taking the easy scum is the height of hubris (and hint, if you're town and we lynch EP, you're coming to end game anyway cause I'm not scum). You could go with abr in my books if you made a play like that.

I want to see what EP and Maria say at this point anyway.

Ranmaru, theres no need to worry about me misjudging in LyLo.
If Maria promises to heal you 100%, you will be there 100%.
Or she is scum.
So no chance for me to mess up the LyLo.!

I really don't care for your insults. I wouldn't even go so far as to insult you for scum reading me all game *if you were town. That's not nice of you you know.

It's only an insult if you vote for me today. And it will be a fitting one. (and it's not over you scum reading me, EP is guaranteed scum from town!ranmaru's pov, you take those.)

I mean, I guess there is some world where its una/maria from your pov. But... no.

I think it should make sense from my earlier scum read of Errant + past concerns with him, and the weird role he has, to make it more likely that he is scum between Una/EP.

Una's play makes sense with his N1 target. He pushed Maria all day instead of Mastina as well.

Yes. I agree that you shouldn't actually be scum reading Una. I was just correcting myself in that it's not strictly impossible so EP isn't strictly confirmed scum from your pov.

How did you go from Maria + EP is too easy so its Maria + Chamber, to EP has to be scum so Chamber + EP, wouldn't the natural progression be going back to Maria + EP?

It was mostly your hammer, and your decision to recruit EP (Over Cheeky/Una). Plus your insistence that EP is the most sensible player in town, which is why you would be reliant in pushing him. Then seeing Maria claim Doc before me, made me think she's most likely legit and her defense to you makes more sense to me now as Doctor. (Saying she was playing differently here, and admitted)

My hammer already happened.

I think my recruitment choice is the only one I was probably ever going to do. Why do you think I'd have done cheeky/una just because you said you would?

I still think MariaR's claim is obviously really bad. It being bad was my first thought when I saw it. I was just waiting for all the claims to say something. (I said as much before Una's claim in the PT). The fact that her claim turns things around for you is really confusing to me.

It did. If you are trying to find progression in between, you won't find it. I thought it over after we talked and before the thread was open. The reason I kept thinking about it was because I was really annoyed with you actually hammering when I said not to. Then I ruled out Errant at the beginning of the day because I thought maybe he really was just having trouble with reads and was more null, and thought you were trying to push Maria to distance.

Then like I said, she claimed Doc before me. Then I was beginning to lean towards her being likely town as I explained in the PT. Then EP comes in with a gut town read on me all of a sudden, wants to lynch Una, and has an ascetic role that confirms you as town to him. I town read Una, I'm beginning to town read Maria, I see Una claim, it makes sense that I'd just come to the conclusion it's Chamber + EP. The only other conclusion would be Maria + EP yet I'm liking her claim and her play makes sense with her role. I also have a big problem with your play overall and how you have used your role, and recruitment.

Does annoying behavior make me scum? If anything I'd think the opposite (though in any such case WIFOM can make it null). And whats my scum motivation for using my role as I have, even if its not how you'd have?

No, but since it annoyed me so much it made me think why you did it. I have already gone into why I think you did it. Again you provide a weak explanation for why you did it so it doesn't alleviate my concerns of that.

Scum motivation for how you used your role: Manipulate a town player and possibly gain information that can benefit your scum win condition. This leads back to you insisting I was a pr read, and then I say 'no I play like a vt all the time' and you insist that you don't believe people actually do that. Ask who I would neighborize so you can kill my choice and make me look bad while you recruit EP. Lie about your belief of using your role only for 'power role coordination' or w/e instead of actually using it to gain reads. Be antagonistic with me from the start for town cred. It was a competent, high ball move.

Here's a question: Why did you ask me who I would neighborize?

So I use it on you to manipulate you... but only ever antagonize you and make you scum read me?? And I still don't believe people are capable of perfectly playing as they wish, if that were possible mafia wouldn't be a game. I never said I didn't think you wouldn't try to play the same as both, just that you'd fail. (surely you also believing this is built into you believing marias doc claim justifies some of her oddness?). I already knew you town read Cheeky?? Does this point actually make any sense to you if you reflect on it? How does this make you look bad? The lie thing isn't even a point?

I hadn't thought it through yet and given you were in the neighbourhood, I'd have given your opinion some weight if I was splitting a decision, for instance. But then I thought it through and realized I was on EP.

Your intention wouldn't be for me to scum read you for it. I just think since Alisae was quick lynched accidently, you had little information to choose a neighbor, and so you chose me, your scumread, instead of a null read. Although, in the pov of the rest of town, people town read you for it so I think it achieved the intended effect. The reason why I say I don't believe you saying I'd fail is that I haven't failed. I'm going to need you to clarify the maria oddness bit, i'm confused. Honestly I found the question manipulative with the result of EP coming in especially when I was very against it. I even gave you a choice between Cheeky / Una and told you Una was most likely but you chose outside of the two.

Why haven't you thought it through yet? Also, you asked EP a question D2 about his games. Why did you ask him, and what was your conclusion?

I'm going to sleep now. I want to see Maria and EP respond to all this. Good night. I'll also re-read the thread to have a solid grasp on Maria/Chamber.

In post 645, Ranmaru wrote:Why haven't you thought it through yet?

I hadn't when I asked you. I have now obviously given that I chose a target? I was just like, oh I need to neighbourize someone today, lets ask ran who he'd pick and then think about it. And then when I thought about it EP was the obvious choice.

In post 645, Ranmaru wrote:Also, you asked EP a question D2 about his games. Why did you ask him, and what was your conclusion?

He seemed aloof this game (with the plausible excuse of exams). I wanted to compare to a game where he didn't enjoy himself to see how that compared as a different reason for inactivity.
I didn't actually ever read any of the games.

I've been pondering about this for the whole day at work now, and I feel like my assessment that chamber and ranmaru are automatically aligned might have been hasty.
I still think that scum!chamber neighborizing ranmaru the way they did (and with the reasoning they apparently used), doesn't feel "smart" to me.

N1 target: Ram
N2 target: Una