I think the flips seemed opportunistic, a little. From my perspective in White Flag I thought "Who cares everyone can see my reasoning when I change reads" but here I would think 'well Giga seems to be playing well and confident here so I am unsure how to read the flips'. I probably wouldn't think much of it myself when looking at myself because I know why I'm changing, but when I see someone else it's hard to tell. I mean you do you but just telling you how it looked like to me.
That's fair! No one is going to have perfect reads and no one should expect others to, that goes without saying.
It's just frustrating though when people don't want to expand on their issues with said flips (eg why it seems opportunistic rather than genuine), which was the crux of my annoyance with Pine's slot.
Katyusha, you need to develop thicker skin. Seriously, nothing I did here was personal. I have zero problem with you as a person, and I *did* actually engage with you. If your definition of "engaging" is agreeing with you, then Mafia is not the game for you.
So do we win and lose individually or do we both have to win and win as a pair?
Also, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?
actually that moreso applies to the fact that this whole event in general.
Waking up to getting Quick Lynched D1 in the normal was kinda funny and irritating at the same time since my reads were fairly good there.
But like, I feel like the way I was lynched here was really shitty. It felt like ywall were lynching randomly if anything because I felt like there was no interaction with me whatsoever.
@Dunn - I don't actually hate you I just don't like palying mafia with you but like, honestly, my issues with how you played are probably stemming from me and I myself am the problem not really you since I don't have fun when I play this game anymore therefore I am doing something wrong.
Scumreading redflavor for draft reasons, don’t agree with n_m’s vote on you and usually syncing with him is how I read him. Singer is townie and Ploti is maybetown from the draft but otherwise null. Didn’t really like how CES interacted with you but I was ok with his dunn interaction. 1 townread isn’t the sexist wagon composition and I don’t really align myself with the reasoning that hard, all my other townreads that I felt more confident were off it
After talking with Ausuka and looking a little bit into RF’s meta that turned into a townlean, and I don’t think n_m scumreads me as scum since he knows I’m usually a difficult mislynch as town. Wagon composition turns townier and I mostly nullread you so no point in pushing against the wagon when I can just sort you off of your reaction
Your push on me feels like scum though, I think my thought process here is pretty transparent and I don’t really see why this doesn’t make sense. Treating me like I’m fanning the flames subtly when I outright said “Wouldn’t really care if this is town but the wagon just feels dumb” since there’s L-1 like less than 24 hours into the game is pretty disingenuous
In post 119, Katyusha wrote:Like do you think I ask the questions I ask just for fun?
I’m obviously trying to get somewhere and when I looked at my reads you had more scum equity than I originally thought
In post 120, Pine wrote:Dude, I'm about to be lynched and flipped.
Scum!me self-hammers and says fuck off, or at least doesn't piss off the one person who's shown any kind of resistance to lynching me.
I've made my peace here, and I'm scumhunting. Sitting down to dinner now, I'll go through every player after dinner.
In post 128, Katyusha wrote:help me see why this doesnt match up with what i am doing, this is exactly what went on in my head and it makes perfect sense to me
In post 129, Pine wrote:Well, for starters you're only voting for CES.
In post 130, Katyusha wrote:Because voting for you would hammer you? Do you want to be hammered?
In post 152, Pine wrote:For example, she keeps going on and on about how this is scum!Pine just attacking her without reason or explanation...yet I don't see a vote on me.
again, do you want to be hammered? Right now?
In post 155, Katyusha wrote:and AGAIN, interacting with people changed my reads, I townread not_mafia's interaction with me, by poe that makes you more likely scum
like how does that not make sense
In post 157, Katyusha wrote:Pine is saying it’s scummy that I’m not voting him while scumreading him while he’s a l-1
In post 332, Pine wrote:Obviously, something she did set me off, and then she allayed my concerns. Preeeetty clear on my process there.
Right, what are the things that allayed your concerns and why did they?
The former is easily answered and I can kind of see where you are getting at but the value call doesn't jive with me.
In post 386, Pine wrote:I want a Not_Mafia lynch above all else.
This "vote everyone" nonsense is blatantly scummy.
VOTE: Not_Mafia VOTE: Katyusha
Plotinus doesn't take a scum role while Alisae takes the Town role. That doesn't happen. Don't be dumb.
In post 387, Katyusha wrote:Considering I've literally only seen town do it, you'll have to explain why it's scum motivated.
Spoiler: Literally an entire page of me just asking you to answer a simple fucking question I STILL don't have an answer to post-game
In post 419, Katyusha wrote:How? That's an entirely fakeable post. The meta on Dunn is just flat out wrong, the change on singer could be interesting/meaningful I guess but it's nothing I think that's impossible for singer to post as scum.
In post 422, Pine wrote:That you're prosecuting a case against flipped Town
In post 423, Katyusha wrote:I'm not prosecuting a case, I'm trying to understand why you read singer a certain way because your thought process doesn't look natural or genuine whatsoever. If we had more time I would have still done this before singer's flip (I even attempted to but, as always, you give shit non-answers)
In post 426, Pine wrote:I sensed a mislynch coming and moved off of it. I was right, while you kept on lynching.
Remind me how I'm the one on trial here?
In post 427, Katyusha wrote:Scum can whiteknight mislynches and nothing about why you even gave intent to hammer (your top two scumreads are pushing the same lynch and you want to
hammer
?? in what universe is that good play??) made sense in the first place so I'm trying to figure out if I should even consider the off-chance your slot is blacklist worthy town.
If me trying to sort you hurts your feelings or something I'm more than happy to drop the issue and just prodge until you're lynched. Until then I don't want a single loose end tied up and I don't want to be wrong on a second lynch.
In post 428, Pine wrote:Bolded is what you're pretending not to see.
No, I see it plainly. That doesn't change the fact that you've literally been gunning for my lynch the whole game and called n_m my partner for ??? reasons (yes, i know what you
said
those reasons were, it doesn't change the fact they're outright terrible). If you're going to hammer a wagon being pushed by your scumreads you better have a good reason to explain why scum are bussing.
Plus those dont even look agenda driven lmao
Is it weird to be frustrated that a townread scumreads you? What was wrong with that dunnstral vote after singer townread me and felt Dunn was playing differently to WF? Like again completely fakeable but that doesn't mean that it's townie. Nothing about those posts were pingy or townie.
In post 433, Pine wrote:So you disagree with my reasons for SRing her
Even though you were voting there
I was satisfied when she posted better content, and eased off
She flips Town
Why does scum!me just keep the vote?
PE: Bite me, Dunn. Given a Town and Scum Ali/Plot don't go Town/Scum
In post 434, Katyusha wrote:Because it's cheap and easy towncred and Dunn was going to hammer anyway because the wagon composition is primarily town? This is a dumb line of questioning and you know that.
What I want to know is the substantial stuff that actually lets me tell the difference between scum whiteknighting/trying to get towncred off a lynch and town.
Why
was her content townie? You've literally just said it
was
townie and pointed to a post. I am obviously looking for something deeper.
I was trolling you, Kat. THIS is a bad line of questioning. You're grilling me and splitting hairs over a position I held for about five seconds, going from soft TR to suspicion to satisfied hard TR. It's not rocket surgery.
She made a couple of suspicious posts, I got nervous, and her subsequent behavior calmed me down and solidified my original read.
Stop being obtuse. My manufactured scumreads are way more coordinated than that. It's arguably the biggest tell I haven't been able to sand away.
In post 438, Katyusha wrote:It's funny because you're grilling me for also changing my mind about my read on you, lmao
But, no, I don't think you're understanding what you're getting at because I understand
what
your trajectory is, I want to know
why
your trajectory went that way. Because I don't see WHAT about the post you linked made your read into a satisfied hard townread.
In post 439, Katyusha wrote:I'm really regretting not lolhammering you when you were begging me to.
In post 440, Katyusha wrote:also giving intent on a soft tr (you said at one point you were scumreading her earlier so i don't actually know where it went from scumread > townread > scumread > townread) because of a few offputting posts feels a bit nonsensical when your hard scumreads are the ones pushing that lynch
In post 443, Katyusha wrote:like in what world is "Why did you townread this post" an absurd fucking question
In a world where I've explained it several times and you've rejected the explanation. Then asking AGAIN becomes absurd.
I SEE YOU SAID 2 + 2 = 5
Yup
AND THEN YOU CHANGED YOIR ANSWER TO FOUR
Yeah I miscounted
BUT WHY DID YOU SAY FIVE
I miscounted. By the way you were saying five too, and didn't figure it out
BUT YOU SAID FIVE AT FIRST! I DON'T TRUST PEOPLE WHO CHANGE THEIR MINDS
Dude I miscounted. Also, we know the answer is four now. I reassessed and got the right answer, while you derped your way into saying five the whole time
YES BUT WHY DID YOU SAY FIVE THEN FOUR. EXPLAIN IT AGAIN SLOWLY
In post 447, Katyusha wrote:The solution here Pine is to explain to me that it's 4 and not 5 by explaining to me what addition is or drawing a picture.
Me: 4? How did you get 4?
You: I already told you the answer is 4! Fuck you!
Me: I don't get it, please explain.
This can easily be solved by, oh I don't know, drawing a picture?
Here are two dots: '', and here's another two: ''. Now count them - wow, it's four!
Now you said 296 was townie to you. Cool! I explained why even in retrospect that post looked entirely fakeable and felt why I explained that way. I want to know what about that post you found townie. Draw the fucking picture. If you want to make the thread toxic or just be a steaming pile of garbage that's your prerogative, just give a non-answer like "gut" or something and I'll get off your case. I won't even ask the inevitable followup of "well what about it pinged your gut" I'll literally shut the fuck up because you obviously don't give a shit about the possibility we've just been tvt'ing the entire fucking game and letting scum walk to their win because you can't reevaluate or engage with people you scumread. I think the likelier answer is that you're not an incompetent town player who relies on misrepping people's play and has the ego the size of a fucking train, but I'm more than willing to be proven wrong!
And fucking lol about "I don't trust people who change their mind" that's LITERALLY why you're pushing me in the first place like actually fuck out of here
And Plot, I'm glad to know that Ali is at least willing to reevaluate Pine if I'm mislynched. I wasn't sure how strong that meta read was and the possibility Pine was town is honestly 90% of why this game has been mentally taxing on me. Lycan offered to replace out but I refuse on principle because i think I need the experience dealing with players like this to become a better player. Or I might just stop playing Mafia if Pine is town here. I haven't really decided yet.
I don't mean to be petty but the issue here isn't you agreeing or disagreeing with me - it's that every time I did anything I was either ignored or basically told that I was an idiot and the question itself ignored. You thinking this is an issue about the thickness of my skin is exactly why I don't have any interest in playing Mafia with you for the time being because our personalities just don't align - maybe it's a byproduct of the bullshit I've gone through for basically my entire life and seeing my hobbies as a way to break away from that but I generally hold expectations over people and have zero tolerance for bs like this when I'd otherwise not give a shit in a similar real life situation. I need to be able to interact with people when I play Mafia because that just seems like how the game should be played (??), so playstyles that think "engagement" is just going like "ur scum xd" and feel that their scumreads are a good reason to not interact with people in good faith are just not fun for me to play with. Sorry but I play Mafia for fun and you're not fun for me to play with. And I say this while other town players have disagreed with me in this game and obviously other games and I'd still play with them again. Agreement and disagreement is a natural part of the gamestate but that's not a reason to throw a game when our TvT was entirely preventable by not misrepresenting my play or actually bothering to have a conversation with me in good faith.
I realize this looks petty to outline but I think it's only fair you know why I feel this way because you still think it's something personal when it's not and that's basically why I took the time to write this out anyway.
pedit: I think it's like team mafia and your group is considered to have a win and a loss?
pedit: if it makes you feel better alisae i thought you were scummy because you townread our slot and didn't make any mention or factor my wall on dunn's meta into your read. it made your read seem a lot less genuine to me but i was concerned it might be because you wouldn't care about my read on Dunn if you were town in the first place. i know i wasn't in the game at the time and lycan didn't push this angle but that was the reason I had in my head and in discord to consider you (not your slot, I scumread some of plot's content as well but let you come in on a clean slate). Had I not replaced out I probably would have asked you to dispute it and read you off of that (and even suggested Lycan do the same). I completely empathize with you otherwise though if that's not clear
In post 983, Alisae wrote:actually that moreso applies to the fact that this whole event in general.
Waking up to getting Quick Lynched D1 in the normal was kinda funny and irritating at the same time since my reads were fairly good there.
But like, I feel like the way I was lynched here was really shitty. It felt like ywall were lynching randomly if anything because I felt like there was no interaction with me whatsoever.
@Dunn - I don't actually hate you I just don't like palying mafia with you but like, honestly, my issues with how you played are probably stemming from me and I myself am the problem not really you since I don't have fun when I play this game anymore therefore I am doing something wrong.
but either way thanks for the win I guess.
You can be pretty easy to tone read, at least that’s what made me suspect you in DR and this game, I know you don’t play that way so that’s probably the disconnect
Also, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?
I've tried to make peace with you at least two or three times, Katyusha. I have nothing against you personally, this was a disagreement in a game. I'm sorry you felt you were treated poorly, but there was no malicious intent. I hope we can get along next time we cross paths.
GG scum, especially CES. I spotted you right at the end, but didn't have the capital to make a difference. I hate it when disorganized Towns don't give credit to disciplined and savvy scum. Well played.
I’m glad we agree then? I literally just said i understood it wasn’t personal or malicious on your part, I just dislike the way you play mafia and not you as a person haha
And yeah definitely seconding that CES played the situation fantastically
In post 987, Ranmaru wrote:I actually town read Not Mafia. I was sad at his mislynch.
OK, but his strategy was ridiculously unhelpful. Voting for everyone essentially added the Hated modifier to all Townies. That is *bananas* anti-Town, and if I ever play a game like this again, I will policy the fuck out of anyone doing it.
In post 984, Katyusha wrote:pedit: if it makes you feel better alisae i thought you were scummy because you townread our slot and didn't make any mention or factor my wall on dunn's meta into your read. it made your read seem a lot less genuine to me but i was concerned it might be because you wouldn't care about my read on Dunn if you were town in the first place. i know i wasn't in the game at the time and lycan didn't push this angle but that was the reason I had in my head and in discord to consider you (not your slot, I scumread some of plot's content as well but let you come in on a clean slate). Had I not replaced out I probably would have asked you to dispute it and read you off of that (and even suggested Lycan do the same). I completely empathize with you otherwise though if that's not clear
In post 991, Pine wrote:OK, but his strategy was ridiculously unhelpful. Voting for everyone essentially added the Hated modifier to all Townies. That is *bananas* anti-Town, and if I ever play a game like this again, I will policy the fuck out of anyone doing it.
In post 987, Ranmaru wrote:I actually town read Not Mafia. I was sad at his mislynch.
OK, but his strategy was ridiculously unhelpful. Voting for everyone essentially added the Hated modifier to all Townies. That is *bananas* anti-Town, and if I ever play a game like this again, I will policy the fuck out of anyone doing it.
Also, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?
