Micro 812 - The Arena II - Game Over

[Irrelephant11]

mm I think the choices of who would be challenger all game lean toward Scumstral
But SS's day play comes across much scummier

hmmmm

[Something_Smart]

But SS's day play comes across much scummier

In what way?

[Irrelephant11]

@Mod: Low Activity till a few hours after deadline. Any chance of an extension?

SS you've done a lot less to help town clear up alignment, you don't look like you've been sorting as much as Dunn has, and you really didn't interact with the wagons on days NM was up for a vote

[Something_Smart]

That's my playstyle. I've learned from experience that generally when I try to drive discussion, it ends badly.

And also... I realize it's WIFOM but I wouldn't ignore my partner like that, and I really do believe that Not_Mafia is prime bus material in an nightless game where low-content players rarely survive to endgame (so I probably would bus him, especially on day 2).

I did have bad feels around Dunn's Not_Mafia vote on day 1 for the same reason as I suspected Flubber-- Not_Mafia WAS a bad vote that day. And Dunn loves to distance like that (I can provide links if you'd like).

[Dunnstral]

Nevermind I re-read and it makes sense if you just accidentally put ceej in there twice. Please verify this though and answer my 472

I only talked about ceejay once but he is in there twice, you and ss get bumped back a day (you day 6, SS day 7, which is today)
I picked him on day 5 because I subscribed to the consensus that he was the scum

Day 1 I didn't pick anybody, it was a different system, the gladiate was gone in thread

[Dunnstral]

NM is both one of the easiest yet hardest players to lynch in general. So I am expecting someone who picked him day 1 to know enough about him.

Otherwise it's a weird pick

Are you assuming NM is town?

had the same thought about post 31

In other news Blackstar is scummy

Why did you think this dunn? Here are Blackstar's posts at the time:

Hi

What's his reputation?

Well, I am more about waiting for something to happen at this point.

We can't vote so we can't really apply pressure yet..

Pretty much

This was a while ago but I think it was the general low impact entrance followed by post 40 where he's waiting for something to happen - but something had happened in thread and he didn't comment on it

[BNL]

VC 7.3

Dunnstral (0) -
Something_Smart (0) -
Not Voting (1) - Irrelephant11

Mod notes:
With 1 vote in play it takes 1 to lynch
The deadline is on 6 August 11am UTC-4, or in (expired on 2018-08-06 11:00:00)
Deadline is extended by 4 hours by request

[Irrelephant11]

Dunn help me see SS’s motivation in the challenger choices each night

[Dunnstral]

Dunn help me see SS’s motivation in the challenger choices each night

I'm not sure what the picking me thing was about on day 3 or 4 or whatever

It's possible he just randomized each night but I wouldn't count on that

His motivation for picking me today is that I think this was his best option today

[Dunnstral]

Ok so

day 1/day 2 Not_mafia and flubbernugget are chosen as gladiators, we don't know if/how much say not_mafia had in the gladiates early on (Though since he was picked it's a good guess that he did have at least some input in it)

Not_mafia gladiator was wifom for the scum team, no clue why flubbernugget was picked (you say flubber was gunning for something_smart but I don't think I agree, in any case we know this was a bad pick by the mafia anyway)

day 3 he picks me - Maybe he knows I was going to be on someone else? Maybe he thought the NM flip would make me look at the scioness sajj votes? Again, there is no reason for me to gladiate someone else here and then say he's town if I'm mafia, it just makes my stuff harder

day 4 Myloninja - this could be who he wanted lynched for the day. There was no indication that mylo was going to pick something_smart - he only picked him because he hadn't read the thread, so it ended up being a "dumb" looking pick and we lynched him

day 5 Something_Smart is the gladiator, this is the easy "lynch ceejay" day where something_smart probably wanted to get on the board for "people chosen as gladiator" to look better

day 6 You are the gladiator after you said you scumread flubber (I think) - 2 towns in the gladiate

[Something_Smart]

Again, there is no reason for me to gladiate someone else [on day 3] and then say [S_S is] town if I'm mafia, it just makes my stuff harder

This actually makes up a decent part of my argument. This would be completely true... but he didn't persist with it. He said it made me town until he decided it didn't, and while that isn't something town wouldn't do, it certainly does not make his job harder as scum.

[BNL]

VC 7.4

Dunnstral (0) -
Something_Smart (0) -
Not Voting (1) - Irrelephant11

Mod notes:
With 1 vote in play it takes 1 to lynch
The deadline is on 6 August 11am UTC-4, or in (expired on 2018-08-06 11:00:00)

[Irrelephant11]

Wow I’m running out of time

I did think more about night choices and SS choosing mostly randomly actually makes about the same amount of sense here as Dunnstral choosing intentionally

[Irrelephant11]

I don't agree with the assumption that I would have seen Dunn as more likely to challenge you. He voted Flubber which at least showed some indication of townreading you, and he never really made his opinion on either of us clear.

And I definitely would not have trusted Dunn to gladiate who I expected him to, especially with what he pulled on day 3, and indeed it does seem right from town!Dunn's perspective to gladiate me, since scum!you would never make him the challenger and risk having ME decide between you two after you just spent all that time calling me scum.

It seemed fairly clear that the most likely challenge would be between me and you, and as scum I would have trusted in my ability to out-argue you more than my ability to out-WIFOM Dunn. If I weren't still sticking to my random plan (and it would probably have been smart to abandon it at that point), I would have made myself gladiator and challenged you.

I don't know why he didn't pick you, but I can guess that he probably expected a quick win. (Which I do have to thank you for not giving to him.) It's just a question of, does he think you will scumread me more with no discussion or with discussion. And if the answer to that question is unclear, then it's equally good for him to make you the gladiator as it is for him to challenge me-- both will result in a win if you ultimately end up scumreading me.

It's definitely plausible that he could believe that you have more doubt than you let on, but that he can make a more convincing case than I can today and remove some of that doubt for when you vote.

That all make sense? Was just trying to get all my thoughts out, and if it got a bit jumbled I can definitely clarify.

Why did it seem clear the challenge would be between us?

Again, there is no reason for me to gladiate someone else [on day 3] and then say [S_S is] town if I'm mafia, it just makes my stuff harder

This actually makes up a decent part of my argument. This would be completely true... but he didn't persist with it. He said it made me town until he decided it didn't, and while that isn't something town wouldn't do, it certainly does not make his job harder as scum.

Yes please provide links

[Irrelephant11]

That's my playstyle. I've learned from experience that generally when I try to drive discussion, it ends badly.

And also... I realize it's WIFOM but I wouldn't ignore my partner like that, and I really do believe that Not_Mafia is prime bus material in an nightless game where low-content players rarely survive to endgame (so I probably would bus him, especially on day 2).

I did have bad feels around Dunn's Not_Mafia vote on day 1 for the same reason as I suspected Flubber-- Not_Mafia WAS a bad vote that day. And Dunn loves to distance like that (I can provide links if you'd like).

Oops mobile I meant provide links here

[Something_Smart]

Why did it seem clear the challenge would be between us?

It seemed clear that the challenge would MOST LIKELY be between us. Because you suspected me so heavily, it's the obvious conclusion of that. (If there were no gladiator and we just had votes, you would probably have voted me, at least given the situation that we were in at the end of day 6.)

Oops mobile I meant provide links here

First two things that come to mind: Space Mafia, where Dunn and Zach distanced very vocally from early on, and Surrealism, which I will admit was not as strong as I remember. I do know that Dunn and his partner Umlaut did distance a decent amount day 1, until Umlaut died at night.

The evidence from Surrealism is definitely weaker than I remember, but Space is a good example of Dunn bussing hard from early on. Another thing that just came to mind was this game, which Dunn wasn't in but Not_Mafia was and he was totally fine with being hardbussed early on.

[Dunnstral]

Those are 2016 games and Zach is my friend

[Dunnstral]

^They're not representative as how I play now, and the Zach game was special

[Something_Smart]

Maybe not. But clearly, if you didn't like to hardbus, you wouldn't have hardbussed there. You wouldn't go into a scumgame with your friend as your scumbuddy and do something you don't like to do.

What is your description of how you currently feel about bussing?

[Something_Smart]

And for the record, you told Nos to bus you in that game as well.

[Dunnstral]

What is your description of how you currently feel about bussing?

I don't bus right out of the gate, I'd vote an ally who was going down later but even then I'm hesitant to vote a partner out without permission

[Something_Smart]

I mean, you admitted when you voted him that his challenge was dumb. It's fair to say that you could have thought that regardless of your alignment, and it's definitely reasonable to say that there were few scenarios where he was going to live to endgame.

Also, Not_Mafia would definitely have given you permission to bus him from early on. It's clear from the fact that he was picked that his team was okay with him receiving attention from the beginning.

And by the way, Irrelephant, do you think I would agree to that plan and then proceed to do absolutely NOTHING with it? I mentioned in passing that I thought he was town but I really didn't try to get anything out of that. In a me/Not_Mafia world, do you not think either he or I would try to achieve something based on him getting selected? (For sure we would if the gladiator selection was not random... and even if it was, I can tell you I would have tried to take advantage of it, and probably by bussing Not_Mafia on day 2 or just getting him to challenge me day 1. Especially after Flubber recommended he challenge me, that would have been a great gambit.)

[BNL]

VC 7.5

Dunnstral (0) -
Something_Smart (0) -
Not Voting (1) - Irrelephant11

Mod notes:
With 1 vote in play it takes 1 to lynch
The deadline is on 6 August 11am UTC-4, or in

(expired on 2018-08-06 11:00:00)

[Irrelephant11]

Okay I'm here till deadline

Prolly gonna spend most of the time re-reading, but just in case are either of you here?

[Something_Smart]

I'm here.