Micro 880: A Normal Game - Game Over!

[OkaPoka]

I thought he was setting up a motive to give me intent without it looking too jarring

[skitter30]

On a slightly different note, you seem to be having "recursive tunnel reads",

you start with a premise (in this case, that Lich is really strong scum), then use it as a lens through which to view the whole gamestate

(e.g. you're apparently viewing anyone who votes skitter as suspect because Lich is voting skitter, even though you apparently don't have much of a townread on skitter apart from that).

oh you picked up on this too, good

[OkaPoka]

skitter if you really think I scumread you you arent actually paying attention

[OkaPoka]

but whatever

I'll probably mellow out and find someone to sheep

[skitter30]

if anything i'd argue that this implies that *your* thoughts are mercurial

i mean this is basically what you're accusing tl of doing and that's what it feels to me like you've done here so

[skitter30]

skitter if you really think I scumread you you arent actually paying attention

you literally announced this wasn't real like 2 minutes ago, how am i supposed to know it wasn't a real read

[OkaPoka]

skitter that post is connected to another post

pedit: because ive said you and temporal lich are antialigned and that should really be enough

[skitter30]

and you townread me but pressure me to vote with you by telling me that you scumread me and vote me ?
uh ok then

[OkaPoka]

yeah thats my attempt to emulate rc but im not as good as rc

[OkaPoka]

alright skitter indulge me here

If I am town.

What is your solve then?

because dunn/kop is not a compelling argument since that means they let town run me up to l1 twice and didnt hammer or even give intent when all eyes were on me and it was reasonable to for a hammer

actually ill make this post

these posts are connected

if you have any questions ask but i cant promise i can be assed to answer at this point

ill give you a clue

there is an implication of me wanting my buddies to bus if im scum here

[Ircher]

Day 1 VC #18

Oversoul (0) -
OkaPoka (2) - skitter30 (191), TemporalLich (425)
Dunnstral (1) - Oversoul (673)
Kop (2) - callforjudgement (644), OkaPoka (908)
skitter30 (2) - Dunnstral (587), Kop (860)
Firebringer (0) -
TemporalLich (2) - Sleepless Assassin (158), Firebringer (687)
Not Voting (0) -

Lynch Threshold

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch a player.

Deadline

This phase will end on July 13, 2019 9:30:00 PM EDT (GMT-4) or in (expired on 2019-07-13 21:30:00).

Moderator Notes

1. If you have regular weekend V/LA, you must either notify me each time or set V/LA tags each time.
2. If you see any errors in the votecount, please let me know.
3. Firebringer is V/LA indefinitely.
4. Moderator is V/LA from Wednesday, July 17 to Sunday, July 21. Please forward any questions to Skygazer during that time.
5. skitter30 is V/LA until Sunday, July 14.

Voting History Key: * = Hammer, + = L-1 vote.

Spoiler: Current Voting History

Day 1

the worst (5): skitter30 (90) --> (Null) (168) --> OkaPoka (169) --> (Null) (253) --> SweetNSassy (340)
Oversoul: OkaPoka (404) --> Dunnstral (673)
callforjudgement: Firebringer (94) --> OkaPoka (157) --> the worst (222) --> OkaPoka (417) --> Kop (644)
OkaPoka: SweetNSassy (85) --> Dunnstral (105) --> TemporalLich (164) --> Kop (908)
Dunnstral: SweetNSassy (300) --> the worst (397) --> skitter30 (587)
SweetNSassy (0):
Kop: skitter30 (860)
Sleepless Assassin: TemporalLich (93) --> Dunnstral (108) --> TemporalLich (158)
skitter30: OkaPoka (191+)
Firebringer: Dunnstral (91) --> skitter30 (111) --> Dunnstral (138+) --> skitter30 (279) --> TemporalLich (687)
TemporalLich: OkaPoka (87) --> Dunnstral (109+) --> OkaPoka (167) --> Firebringer (285) --> OkaPoka (425+)

Spoiler: Previous Voting History

Dawn (Pregame; reference purposes only)

Sleepless Assassin: callforjudgement (14)

[callforjudgement]

there is an implication of me wanting my buddies to bus if im scum here

Just trying to understand your argument: are you saying that you can't be scum, because if you were, you were breadcrumbing to your buddy that you wanted them to bus you and thus you would have been lynched by now?

[OkaPoka]

i would've told my buddy in daychat to hammer me

[skitter30]

alright skitter indulge me here

If I am town.

What is your solve then?

because dunn/kop is not a compelling argument since that means they let town run me up to l1 twice and didnt hammer or even give intent when all eyes were on me and it was reasonable to for a hammer

actually ill make this post

these posts are connected

if you have any questions ask but i cant promise i can be assed to answer at this point

ill give you a clue

there is an implication of me wanting my buddies to bus if im scum here

i read this post like three times and i have no idea what you're trying to say

[skitter30]

again the first post is in the context of arguing why you're town

[OkaPoka]

ill rephrase

mrs skitter whats your solve? i know you think its me + dunn/kop but here's why your solve can't be me + dunn/kop since I would've told them to hammer me and they would have been praised!

[OkaPoka]

oh it does

then im insane and probably thought i posted something i didnt

idk

give me rope already

[OkaPoka]

all i know for certain is that post was made with me thinking that the sovle cant be me + dunn/kop

[skitter30]

ill rephrase

mrs skitter whats your solve? i know you think its me + dunn/kop but here's why your solve can't be me + dunn/kop since I would've told them to hammer me and they would have been praised!

i don't get what you're trying to say here, sorry

[OkaPoka]

keep reading

[Kop]

Kop voted you rather than Lich.

Good enough for the day

So it's good enough because I don't follow you in what you want. All you've done is point out a few contradictions in his reads and votes, it can swing either way on what his alignment is.

I want to ask you a question, if Lich was eventually lynched, and he flips green, where would you go next?

I've not expressed any intentions on wanting to vote for you, or Lich, when I came into the game and saw something that I felt was right at the time and questioned you, in no way was I posturing to vote for you, if I scum read you when replacing in, you'd be gone now.

[Kop]

alright skitter indulge me here

If I am town.

What is your solve then?

because dunn/kop is not a compelling argument since that means they let town run me up to l1 twice and didnt hammer or even give intent when all eyes were on me and it was reasonable to for a hammer

actually ill make this post

these posts are connected

if you have any questions ask but i cant promise i can be assed to answer at this point

ill give you a clue

there is an implication of me wanting my buddies to bus if im scum here

i read this post like three times and i have no idea what you're trying to say

ill rephrase

mrs skitter whats your solve? i know you think its me + dunn/kop but here's why your solve can't be me + dunn/kop since I would've told them to hammer me and they would have been praised!

i don't get what you're trying to say here, sorry

I think I know what he's saying here, or trying to say.

[Kop]

you had all game to call out dunn for not doing anything

you could've put him in a readslist and marked him scum for doing so, but you didn't

shading him now is LOL

uh he's been in my scumlist for literally hundreds of posts, thank you

i don't know if i ever explicitly said that's why i had a problem with here but like i've been strongly suggesting for a while now that i'm not happy about he's playing this game

Being in your list, and actually pressuring him is non existent though.

If Dunn isn't exactly doing anything then he's dead weight, your scum reading him based on that, but if you voted for him, and others seen that vote, it might make people follow or accept that he needs pressure. Dunn can be in the frame of mind by reading the thread, seeing no votes on him, notices a few questions towards him but that's it, he can coast through because he knows that Oka is getting most of the attention. But as soon as Dunn sees a vote, and another person follows, he's going to actively have to do something, he's going to have to say something, but you were only lightly pressuring him and allowed him to go page after page after page and just sit on the sidelines whilst town are fighting with Oka.

[Kop]

Because if Dunn is town, he isn't going to want to sit back and be a mislynch.

[Kop]

Well at this stage, it doesn't look like the Oka wagon is going to be the final wagon, there's got to be a compromise. You have 2/3 other possibilities, why not pursue them, I haven't seen your cases against them.

Are you townreading OkaPoka?

On another note, what's your read on TemporalLich?

I'm not necessarily town reading Oka. I can't possibly see scum tunnelling as hard as Oka in regards to wanting Lich lynched. Scum will obviously want to manipulate the game state I agree, but I don't see them putting a huge marker on there back by going into a hard tunnel that is almost making it a trade. Then posturing themselves into a position where they are going to look elsewhere if he doesn't get his own way, i.e he will force through a lynch on Skitter, and myself (you quoted the post #669 I think it was or somewhere around that region). But I'm not town reading him either because he has actively said he plays better as scum so I don't know for sure whether he's town or scum, hes somewhere in the middle.

Lich I'm not 100% sure, I don't think he's scum based on his contradictions. I can't see scum playing so loosely. I know I mentioned about the contradictions and said when does that tell stop, but I wanted to see what Skitter thought about it and has she not taken any other perceiving angle on it apart from town play carefree. I've not got a interest in voting there at this time, unless something changes.

But if this tunnel continues and we aren't exactly finding some middle ground, and we're getting nearer deadline, something will need to happen because if one or both are still around in day two, day two could potentially be another day one, but this time there will be some flips to also add to the mix. But it's going to take a better case if people need convincing. I will reread the whole interaction between the pair of them in the mean time.