In post 556, eth0s wrote:"there's also the matter of elements. he v conspicuously greets elements when he comes into the thread, and is SRing him for his entrance at 124. now, I'm not sure, but I think that elements wasn't generally particularly seen as scummy when he entered by most of the thread. it was specifically eth0s who called him out early, and even then it was in a kind of weird way. ("No one should particularly love me either since I have one real post and it revolves around tinfoil. So I'll give elements the benefit of the doubt since I don't really feel much to respond to either."
Earlier mena attacked me for apparently TMI'ing on elements by pushing him for something that didn't align with our last game where we were scum together (the fact that ele didn't engage volpe once this game).
Part of the reason I even SRed ele to begin with is his entrance and lack of analyzing anything is the EXACT same way he played in our last game. While I don't think I ever stated this it's important.
I already pointed out that I misremembered that. Trying to call me scummy for something that I already said I was at fault on (and therefore can't be trying to do anything with due to the admitted fault) when it's clearly NAI is gross. Also think that elements is noticeably more vapid in MMRT opening posts than in his opening posts here (even if both ISOs overall are quite empty) so that doesn't line up with the read eth0s is saying he had at that time.
"However I want him to keep true to 116 rather than just wait around to "be impressed" I guess you could say.
VOTE: elements")
tbh that reads like distancing to me. he's not really trying to get elements through, but he is on a super early vote there."
I wanted him to answer a question while I kept pressure applied. I really don't understand how that's scummy.
On a lesser note why would I go from voting my scumbuddy to not voting for the rest of the phase? That would just be idiotic as scum.
Which goes against what Mena thinks of my scumplay. In fact (and I know you and I apparently have differing playstyles here, tris) I haven't even voted at all since elements. I
have been extremely cautious and wanted saudade to fucking do something useful both times he "died"
. In fact I wanted you to chime in too, tris.
I mean, not really. If you look too confident then you look like you're TMIing. Your vote already accomplished the distancing you needed to get done, you don't want to look too keen for it. Also it's funny bc the ways in which you've been cautious fit well with scum!you. Rather than going for the big play of hard defending elements and trying to push me/volpe yesterday for the instant win, you decided to go for the safe plan of bussing. Also your play around saudade and needing the conf!town to do something was just obviously looking for town points
"then regarding tris, immediately after this, he goes from "tris is my null read but my gut leans scum on that overall" (125) to "Disregard this completely. I thought this was similar to scum!tris play in micro 883 but it is actually like polar opposite I think.
For context that is my only game with her before this one (I think)" (126) and then to "She can be town for now too" (127)
I don't think this is organic. I think this is forced organic. I think probably he did have the thought about you being different between the two games, but I think the first was inserted to try and show that he had a sort of progression there --> from scum!tris to town!tris. I think town probably doesn't feel the need to actually put you in town here after realising their buzz is wrong. it's trying to make too much trajectory from too little information."
yeah. because me not checking my past game with tris beforehand is telling of my alignment...
Okay eth0s, sure. I see you don't have a meaningful answer to this point.
"I actually think that 139 might be weird in terms of perspective too, actually? eth0s says "yeah, a townflip there means the hammerer is probably scum". so eth0s says that "If he and I are a team then why would I go through all of the trouble to explain why I don't think a quickhammerer would be his scummate there? If that were my angle I would have quickhammered him." only he couldn't quick hammer him bc he knew it was flipping town and was aware of how a town flip based on a super early quick hammer would look. so instead he ends up making the case that not quick hammering supports a world where he and saud aren't the team knowing that if saud does go down then he can use this to make him look townier."
or to this
----
little interjection here. Just look at all the times he says "this isn't that strong of a point but idk it's strong enough for me to completely tunnel him without analyzing tris the entire game"
1. "but I'm not putting as much weight in it as this is a smaller game."
2. "honestly, that's not one of the stronger things about eth0s but I think it's still prob worth mentioning. if you think it doesn't make sense then maybe I'm just confbiasing."
3. again, this isn't a major point and I don't think it's condemning of him, but I think it's interesting to look at how it fits into the pattern as a whole
4. again, I know this isn't gonna be the most persuasive thing in the world because it's entirely fmpov
5. I don't see it being beyond scum!eth0s' range to tell ele to ignore someone in the PT to try and create false associationals especially if the plan all along was bussing, but yeah, this one isn't as strong as I thought
6.
so about that scum range? yeah it needs work.
there's a lot of other examples with slights in context but these are the big examples where he has to remind you how weak his case is
anyway
This is hilarious because you think you're scum casing me and you're literally town casing me. There's no incentive for scum!me to show weakness in what I'm right on and what I'm wrong on. Scum!me just pushes you as hard as I can, fakes absolute certainty in your alignment at this point, and shoehorns in anything that I can use to fit that narrative. Here, I'm wondering about what's actually useful for my read on you vs what isn't, which is classic town behaviour.
----
"also, I misremembered about elements' interactions from last game. I think it was TL that I was mixing him up with. so no, he doesn't particularly interact with his buddies more than other members of town."
note that eth0s read this and still tries to smear me for it in the first point of this 'case'
"then there's just some basic contradictions between posts like 277 and 330. this whole period is kind of telling. he doesn't demonstrate where his supposed SR on you went, almost like it never existed at all. he goes straight for 334 where he's calling volpe scum with ele and bussing, including using 335 as support for this theory when he should know that it's no good for proof considering that ignored several slots in MMRT when they were town and actually did interact with eth0s (albeit not loads). again, just check the ISO I linked for him and see for yourself. I don't find it plausible that eth0s would just forget this when that game was so recent."
This is actually a valid point.
Luckily I only needed PoE on my side.
BTW look at this string of posts from volpe
admitting it because he literally doesn't have an explanation. at multiple points here he's just choosing to go "lol" or whatever rather than trying to rebut because he knows that trying to fake his thinking around this stuff is just going to leave him looking scummier than playing the role of town who cbf
In post 328, Volpe14 wrote:From what I read last pages eth0s was town'ing it up against Elem and Saudade was like "who should I vote??", now he gets hammered and say that is quicklynching Elem tomorrow.
I can't see it other way than goon!Saudade/ Godfather!Elements here
They were getting PoE'ed by us therefore they made this theater.
I can be wrong but I don't think so
In post 329, Volpe14 wrote:If saudade is town I think chances of Elem being GF are pretty good because I don't see that hammer coming from a goon too often
Like, he wasn't getting that much heat yet to hammer like that when if goon he would be expendable
/shrug
I think this game is won either way to be fair
In post 330, eth0s wrote:I think the opposite. If saudade flips town I think volpe or tris is GF. Leaning volpe.
Goon absolutely makes that town!saudade hammer because it saves the GF from getting lynched the next day.
now why in the actual hell wouldn't scum!me just go along with her plan since she basically had just let me off the hook? Why would I push volpe so hard after this as scum if I could just help a town!her mislynch tris?
It was also blatantly obvious that the only reason volpe would assume the GF to be the quickhammerer (seriously she had been advocating for powerlynching a quickhammer all game) is because she is feigning ignorance for towncred. Like that's literally it. Point blank.
because old me was clearly being a fucking idiot here and going along with the logic of "elements!hammer = elements!GF" was moronic and you could pick up town points by pointing that out, and it also gave you an easy target. I honestly have no idea what volpe was thinking there or if they were actually high but it is what it is. Must've felt orgasmic when you saw them post that and realised you could keep pushing it all the way through the game.
"then he completely forgets that he was skeptical of you (he still says he may have doubts but he never acts on them)"
a
gain. This doesn't line up at all with how mena perceives my scumplay. He talks about how few mistakes I made in MMRT (a much longer and more complex game than this one) yet apparently I am just making blatant scummy mistakes all over the place this game? uh huh
.
I mean, you had the advantage of being able to pocket me in a PT in MMRT, and now I'm more tuned to look for scum!you as I just finished playing scum!you. The very fact that you're scum means you can't play a town game, regardless of whether you're often good at replicating it. And here it's a lot easier to identify precisely because of the smaller game forcing you to make scummier moves earlier or you lose.
"posts after this are from when I'm in the game but eth0s literally doesn't care about giving me the time of day. despite his beliefs of there being a deep wolf he's so set on it being me/ele that his aim from the moment I join is to keep up his momentum against my slot. (374, 392)"
I'm just gonna highlight these because I've already explained the reason for them
"I honestly have no idea what tf is going on in his argument of 472. why in the world would I use the logic of my obviously about to be flipped scum buddy to try and get you lynched? that's just dumb af for me as scum and you trying to use that as a justification for "MENA IS SCUMCLAIMING" is just false as fuck"
yet that is actually exactly what he did
blah blah blah can't respond to my argument with an actual explanation and knows making one up will just make him look worse
"I think I've already laid out a thought process for scum you that makes significantly more sense than this one (510), it's up to tris to decide which one she thinks is right bc I'm p sure you're just scum"
the fact that he just felt "confident" enough to immediately vote me without anyone engaging to this shit is actually beyond me
bro it was literally you or tris lol, making my case on you made me feel confident enough that it was you that I didn't need to do tris as well
