Micro 898 | Forest Fire | Over

[PenguinPower]

You might have a point but I also feel like she makes a decent point about pushing your reads

I pushed my read pretty hard on eth0s D1. I wonder why I stepped back D2...

[PenguinPower]

pagetop++

[Blatant Scum]

Did someone manage to break the argument, that Penguin "bussed" Sheep without making it obvious, so he is very likely to be town?

[january]

no you really just ignored the rest of that post lol

the case was to CHALLENGE the weird townread on you. when i started the case i was only wary of you

and then when i made the case it convinced me that you were maf

but keep taking things out of context lol

[january]

i think i'm at L-1 right now?

do you mind at least letting me respond to gamma and waiting for dann to come back if you're gonna hammer

thanks.

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 3.16

---

Lynching

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

january

(3): PenguinPower, Pyrrha Nikos, Gamma Emerald

Banakai

(1): Banakai

Not Voting

(3): january, Blatant Scum, Dannflor

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-12-10 09:00:00).

Mod notes:

Dannflor is V/LA until Wednesday.

Click here for combined mod & backup mod ISO.[/area]

[Gamma Emerald]

preferably not me after i’ve towntold a lot

and yes i would like to lynch penguin but i know i’m not confident on that

(no that’s not scum setting up for a mislynch, i seriously don’t feel confident in any of my reads. i just have a gut read that banakai isn’t scum and penguin reads as scummier than me)

You really seem to have a lack of conviction here
You seem to be super doubtful of your scumreads and you are giving reasons that aren’t very strong
This kinda doesn’t mesh with the confident persons you have been putting forward imo

[PenguinPower]

no you really just ignored the rest of that post lol

the case was to CHALLENGE the weird townread on you. when i started the case i was only wary of you

and then when i made the case it convinced me that you were maf

but keep taking things out of context lol

Sorry - I''ll try to read English in a way not intended by grammatical and contextual rules. That should have been my goto. Apologies.

[Blatant Scum]

the case was to CHALLENGE the weird townread on you

She actually stated this before posting the case.

[PenguinPower]

the case was to CHALLENGE the weird townread on you

She actually stated this before posting the case.

Absent the fact that I don't see where she stated that was her intent prior to the case, it doesn't change that she admittedly approached reading me with a predetermined read. It tries to explain why she approached with a predetermined read, sure.

[PenguinPower]

Also, bad misquote.

[january]

predetermined purpose? yes, to find out if there was a potential for you to be scum. dann quite literally asked me to do it.

predetermined read? no, i was just wary of the townread on you because i didn't find you outstandingly towny

there's a difference. i tried to make my case on you unbiased and if i had decided from reading that i thought you were towny i would have just said "i can't make a case on penguin bc i think he's towny"

of if you read as null to me i would have said that. i would not have just made up a read.

but instead when i made the case i believed what i found was scummy so that's why i called you scum

[january]

is this any clearer or not

[PenguinPower]

I mean - I could argue semantics if I wanted to be pedantic, but I understand your intent, so, yeah, it’s clearer now. Thanks.

[january]

Did someone manage to break the argument, that Penguin "bussed" Sheep without making it obvious, so he is very likely to be town?

just to be clear, by "obvious" are you talking about him not pointing it out(1) or him not pushing very hard on sheep(2)?

1. if you're talking about him not pointing it out: i sort of suggested this earlier but it was sorta snarky so people probably just disregarded it or said i'm scum because i said that (lol). but i'm not sure when else someone would point out that they bussed, except when someone decides to call them scum. i'm not sure where else it'd be useful to get towncredit except to discredit any pushes.

2. if you're talking about the push: i don't think scum normally hard-pushes their partner. from my experience bussing usually occurs when your partner's very likely to get lynched, so you follow along with the vote to get towncred. personally, i would never put too much into a bus just in case someone else backs off and there's potential to lynch someone else. definitely don't think (most) people bus for the sake of towncred, it's usually just the better alternative to protecting partner and then seeming like really obvious scum buddies.

just to be completely clear and prevent any misunderstandings or misrepresentations...

I DO NOT think penguin's vote on sheep was scummy. it's just that i don't believe it's towny either and i don't think it's accurate to say that he could not have been bussing there

[PenguinPower]

I couldn’t have been bussing there.

[PenguinPower]

i don't think scum normally hard-pushes their partner.

You should see my micro scum games.

[january]

ok responding to gamma now.

just to be clear i'm giving reasoning for my very FIRST read and NOT my current reads.

some of these are based on notes i took but there's a few from memory and those might be slightly tainted by current reads.
anyways:

Dann

- top townread, don't think this needs too much explanation? he led on sheep and he was pretty consistent with high-effort posts and i thought that was towny. wrote that i was paranoid but probably overthinking

banakai

- mostly this, which i'll call the "townslip" interaction. i think i might've re-explained it later but i can't find it atm.

ok read on banakai
all kinda centers around a discussion in d1 i think(?)

Spoiler: quotes

Also, if someone is about to argue that I'm the BS scum buddy in this situation trying to push an alternative. I would counter that by saying the BS vs. RC situation never happens if I'm BS' scum partner and just leave it at that.

Out of curiosity, how would you stop me?

Let's not leave it at that since you brought it up. It happened over the course of 2ish hours - read: quickly. Very likely that you weren't even present before or during the interaction.

yes I agree with penguin please explain this

That's fair. I'd hope in a theoretical scum PT I'd be able to talk to him before hand and maybe dissuade that plan.

But you're right in that I wasn't present for the actual interaction. So, bad defense. I guess I could be the potential BS scum partner here. But uh, I'm not.

it sorta seems to me like all 3 of u guys (PP, Banakai, Dann) all townslipped by assuming maf had daytalk
but of the 3, i felt that banakai was the most... lowkey(?) about the assumption of daytalk
i think if he was mafia there he'd either try to make the "townslip" more obvious by explicitly mentioning daytalk, but instead he just says "yeah answer PP's question"

pyrrha

- purely based on first 150-ish posts i marked her as maf, just felt like she was making reads too fast and too confident for town. townread her for 246 bc i didn't think scum would stick their neck out for partner that much. and i didn't think she was lying about having meta, probably just misread the meta.

i would have placed pyrrha higher except
1. i feel annoyed for psyche just reading pyrrha's tunnel on him
2. i feel like there's been some places where it just seems to me that pyrrha is just following dann (i.e. 1020)

penguin

- slight townread bc of the "townslip" interaction (which is why i put him higher than BS). dann's tr on him may have also influenced this a little bit.

bs

- "town (weird start but seems towny? or... just crazy?)" <- lol that's what i wrote, i basically townread him for the weird start bc i didn't think maf would be nearly confident enough to

intentionally

be scummy at daystart

and then gamma was just fully null

[Pyrrha Nikos]

UNVOTE:

I want to read this before anyone hammers.

[Pyrrha Nikos]

I have a lot of trouble reading that slot. I kinda sheep your though process but I think you should stick to your guns and try to achieve a banakai lynch first

Matter of fact I think banakai should just be lynched asap this phase has probably run its course and dann and gamma qont really be around for a bit prob

He refuses to even play now, so that warrants a policy lynch.

please stop botherring me for having a life. I can't post all the time. Even if I could, everyone thinks I'm scum anyway so I can't say anything that will influence anyone except to get me lynched. That's why I'm voting myself because honestly being lynched would be good for me.

If everyone thought you were scum, you’d already be hammered. I’m leaning now to you being a likely scum pocket > being scum. I do agree it’s definitely good for the game for you not to get to LYLO but if I can confidently lynch scum today, that would obviously be preferable.

[Pyrrha Nikos]

being lynched would be good for me.

Maggots eating your corpse indeed sounds healthy.

maggots have been used in medical situations so it could be healthy

I think you mean leeches?

[PenguinPower]

Nah, maggots are still used today.

[january]

Spoiler: long quote sorry

yeeeeeeeeeeet

No one is tr your enthusiasm for your blatant attempt at trying to mislynching me. If I wasn’t already sl you, I’d be convinced you had no clue how to scumhunt but then I wouldn’t want to get into trouble for insulting your

intelligence

ability to play mafia properly.

Ethos’ spamming up the thread with multiple posts of blatantly faked enthusiasm, really clinches it for me. Out of nowhere, he decides to drive a mislynch on me as a extremely thinly veiled OMGUS. I don’t know whether to be amused or smdh that he seriously thinks everyone has suddenly gotten lobotomies.

But I’ll humour him anyway just for the lulz.

Okay @Ethos, what exactly do you find scummy about my play and be forewarned, I refuse to accept “YEET” as a valid answer.

Your entire ISO is devoid of actually doing anything but trying to seem busy...

(1) Asking questions when the answers are readily available

,

(2) saying something is important but not really pressing it or doing anything with it (299)

,

(3) voting Psyche but not engaging with him at all

, not really pushing anyone really...even your catchup was a regurgitation of the game state and not really your stances.

(4) What are they by the way?

You said you would be willing to lynch 3 players but didn't actually take the time to say who they were.

And, sorry - why are you voting Psyche again? And, I swear to god, if you say opportunistic in your answer I am going to GIFslap you so hard.

1: Citation needed.

2: are you really suggesting that I had no purpose with that? Or that perhaps the answer given didn't do anything to progress where I was going? Weak point.

3: I really thought the reason I voted pine was pretty self-explanatory

4: what are yours? I remember a readlist with no explanation and some side commentary but.. that's about it

penguin can be scum with pyrrha tbh

I still think you’re scum here fr but I really want to see if any towngames actually exist where you are seriously this bad at mafia. Probably more scum flailing than dumb town but eh?

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80259&start=100

Oh Lol, this explains so much. I think I’m townlocking Penguin and never unvoting Ethos until he’s flipped.

Lmao @ Penguin. Okay Banaki, I’ll let it go. It’s just that I find meta really helpful when I haven’t played with someone before.

If Ethos flips town here, I will be legit shocked. Penguin nailed it, he isn’t doing any actual sorting. He acts like he’s invested but his reads are basically empty with very little logical reasoning for pretty much anything.

@Banaki, sure it’s “dumb” and I’m sure he is well aware of it. He is making this out of left field nonsense push on me out of basic desperation to get tr for hard pushing anyone, whether he has any actual reason to do it is apparently besides the point. He’s counting on someone tr him for this, based on just that: it being so unbelievably dumb.

Your entire ISO is devoid of actually doing anything but trying to seem busy...

(1) Asking questions when the answers are readily available

,

(2) saying something is important but not really pressing it or doing anything with it (299)

,

(3) voting Psyche but not engaging with him at all

, not really pushing anyone really...even your catchup was a regurgitation of the game state and not really your stances.

(4) What are they by the way?

You said you would be willing to lynch 3 players but didn't actually take the time to say who they were.

And, sorry - why are you voting Psyche again? And, I swear to god, if you say opportunistic in your answer I am going to GIFslap you so hard.

1: Citation needed.

2: are you really suggesting that I had no purpose with that? Or that perhaps the answer given didn't do anything to progress where I was going? Weak point.

3: I really thought the reason I voted pine was pretty self-explanatory

4: what are yours? I remember a readlist with no explanation and some side commentary but.. that's about it

penguin can be scum with pyrrha tbh

This 100% reads like a scum post. Town rarely reacts this way. Town asks why do you think this? Here is why I did ___. Scum otoh hands just deflects and turns it on the accuser. How dare you express even the mildest suspicion me for my uberscummy play? You obviously have to be scum. If I AtE loud and long enough, maybe you actually might be fooled into actually believe I mean anything that I’m saying.

eth0s, can you expand on why you think Pyrrha is scum?

I’m not really seeing it off that one post you quoted

I would really love to know that too. What is abundantly clear to me is that he views me as both a threat to him and he’s trying to push my mislynch to save himself.

His push on me is 100% a scum push. Not even a single iota of any attempt to correctly sort me or re-evaluate anything. I could post my role pm and he would still find a way to try to convince all of you that you’re colourblind.

A couple things really obvious from these posts:
- Pyrra suggests in 714 that her push of the eth0s lynch was primarily a matter of poe. This is clearly false.

No one

D1 was more confident that eth0s was scum than pyrra. Absolutely no one.

- Pyrra says that she'd be absolutely

shocked

if eth0s ends up flipping town. Does Pyrra's D2 posts provide any evidence of

shock

?? Like, the actual emotion? There's no clue of it at all. Instead, we see the evidence of the exact opposite: a muted reaction in the short term, and increased self-assurance, increased confidence in her grasp of the current gamestate in the long term.

I'm not saying that there should have been some big mea culpa; I can appreciate that my own has seemed awkward and overwrought. What I am saying is that there's no evidence even

implicitly

of the sort of emotional impact you'd expect from the eth0s mislynch given pyrra's D1 iso. This is

in addition to

her clear misrepresentation today of her mindset surrounding eth0s yesterday.

We're left with two possibilities. The first is that Pyrra, along with having a

far

more tenuous grasp of the gamestate than she thinks she has, has a very powerful self-serving bias that leaves her not just to interpret but to

remember

the past in the way that flatters her most. The other is that she's playing a muscular scumgame ITT, performing towniness with all these posts seeming to sort and lynch scum while actually trying to orchestrate mislynches.

In either situation, ego plays a big part in explaining why Pyrra's playing the way she's chosen to - whether she's just that confident in her townplay that she shrugs off any mistakes, or sure enough of herself that she's deigned to play for the center of attention as scum. The personality read is easy. I still don't know a reliable way to convert that into an alliance sort.

it was really long but this felt very uh... nuanced lol
analysis of pyrrha's play, and i think the emotions thing was something i didn't notice but is a really good point. still considers pyrrha as town and gives some justification to explain her play but also considers possibility of scum

and honestly i think a lot of people missed it in favor of responding to the short semi-argumentative posts right after, which i don't really blame them for. that's what i meant about not liking the "how" of delivery that much. but i genuinely (completely unbiased!) think psyche would have never made this post as maf

[january]

oh yeah and the post is kinda a personality read which i think is what pyrrha responded to later (iirc) so i think the actual content of it got missed

[Pyrrha Nikos]

i hate people who self vote there's quite literally no reason to ever self vote

this is like the one thing that's an automatic reason for me to lynch someone

i can see this likely flipping town but now i'm obligated to vote him

january I am somewhat paranoid about your slot and honestly it's because you don't really have any scum reads

that's fair but i usually never have scumreads, only townreads and non-townreads

and i do think everyone HAS had a few towny posts which is kinda why im struggling

but....
here's my penguin case (sorry it's long, tldr is at the bottom)

Spoiler:

spends first 20-ish posts with one-liners (mostly NAI at this point, just a different style of play)

I townread you, Dann.

this is the first read he has and it's not really justified or explained. that'd be fine normally especially since dann WAS towny. but i still feel like up to this point penguin's been extremely low-energy
same applies past this point too, but i think the general thing that stands out to me is penguin's reactive-ness. majority of posts are like 1 or 2 sentences reaction to other people's posts or gifs (love the gifs btw, just don't think they're particularly towny)

Last Night Tomorrow

i feel like penguin's reads this game lacked reasoning behind them. wasn't sure if this was just a habit of play, or an actual scum play. i compared it to the game pyrrha mentioned (viewtopic.php?f=56&t=78060) and i think he actually does give justifications for why he's trying to lynch people in that game.
basically: penguin's reads are phrased as very strong reads but i feel like if town!penguin genuinely wanted a scumread to be lynched, he'd be giving reasons and actually trying to convince people

from what i can tell, 433 is the only real reasoning that penguin has made for a read/lynch

oh and i realize that my read on eth0s is quite different than the majority of people's read, but i think penguin's push on him can be read as pushing a scummy player without genuinely attempting to classify them. the stuff he used as reasoning for the FOS were things like "eth0s didn't read and asked a question i already answered" ([post=#p11364905]426[/post]) which generally might appear scummy but isn't really a reason to sort someone as scum.
essentially: eth0s was lynchbait (sry) and i don't think penguin was un-confident enough on that push to be town

if you don't agree w that last paragraph its ok i kinda disagree with myself a little. but tell me what you think on the rest pls.

tldr; penguin isn't genuinely trying to convince people to vote his scumreads which i think is unusual as town who seems to be presenting their own reads as very strong

Is this it @january? I couldn’t find any 1462 post by you.