Micro 907- Recruitment

[Fdse]

I think my math is correct on all of them, I'm not really sure at this point.

[joges]

So that's really game?

[Fdse]

No joges, I'm clearly just pretending to be a cultist, and making up all that information about the setup because I'm angry. Yes that's game. If you don't believe me, whoever the masons are can confirm what I said is true, because they were given the exact same information I provided about the cult.

[Robbnva]

If what has been said is true, it really is a lousy setup

[Fdse]

@WHOEVER WAS GIVEN A TOWN MASON PM: PLEASE CONFIRM THE INFORMATION BELOW. I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS, BECAUSE IT WAS LITERALLY STATED ONLY CULT AND MASONS KNOW THIS INFORMATION. THANK YOU

Town has a masonry of two people. We [the cult] can kill the masons, otherwise if we shoot not-mason, they're unrecruitable. We have to target someone twice in order to recruit them, and upon a successful recruit, we have to start from scratch on all recruitment attempts. Masons are unrecruitable, and if we try to recruit them, all prior information gets outed to the town, and cult learns the masons. Masons know we know all of that.

[Fdse]

Also, looking at it: I'm going to assume anyone who has posted since I've posted that, is not a mason, making Map Wolf and Eve the masons. If that's the case, the masons had a fucking desperado shot, and that is fucking bullshit regardless of how you put that.

[Map Wolf]

Alright, breaking character for this entire post: WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK. THE LITERAL FUCKING TIME I ROLL CULT FROM THE START, MY PARTNER LITERALLY GETS VIG'D D1 BY RANDOM BULLSHIT. The mechanics I was told of are fucking bullshit for cult, and I have no idea how they're balanced. Town has a masonry of two people. We can kill the masons, otherwise if we shoot not-mason, they're unrecruitable. We have to target someone twice in order to recruit them, and upon a successful recruit, we have to start from scratch on all recruitment attempts. Masons are unrecruitable, and if we try to recruit them, that gets outed to the town, and cult learns the masons. Masons know we know all of that.

Town has a desperado, and two masons. Cult has only cultists, and all of that information. I fail to see how cult has a decently fair shot at winning, especially with the fact town has a mechanical IC if desperado shoots d1, like they did here.

Technically you could have argued that I must've been recruited into the cult. Also I technically can't tell certain information... Not that it matters anyway if you just got hammered.

But yeah, I got pretty lucky although I believe I also considered shooting you earlier.

[Fdse]

Also also, if that's the case, literally Map could've said they were a mason, and given that information to prove themselves. It would've gone one of two ways: 1) Everyone believes them because why would you come up with such an elaborate, (and seemingly blatant lie), to save yourself as cult? or 2) They get lynched, and that information is proven anyways.

[Fdse]

Map, answer the question. Are you a mason?

[Fdse]

I've admitted I'm scum, and we've established I've been hammered. If I'm town, I have zero reason to lie about being scum, and if I'm scum, I have zero reason to lie about being scum.

[Fdse]

Also, literally I said anyone

but

you or I had to be the lynch today.

[Fdse]

Additionally, there's no reason why I would come up with such an elaborate lie about that information unless it was the truth. Especially if I'm scum.

[Map Wolf]

Yes. Actually, just realised that you can paraphrase the information. In this case, I could in theory reveal that I was a mason.

[Map Wolf]

Eve is not mason.

[Fdse]

Can you confirm this statement?

@WHOEVER WAS GIVEN A TOWN MASON PM: PLEASE CONFIRM THE INFORMATION BELOW. I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS, BECAUSE IT WAS LITERALLY STATED ONLY CULT AND MASONS KNOW THIS INFORMATION. THANK YOU

Town has a masonry of two people. We [the cult] can kill the masons, otherwise if we shoot not-mason, they're unrecruitable. We have to target someone twice in order to recruit them, and upon a successful recruit, we have to start from scratch on all recruitment attempts. Masons are unrecruitable, and if we try to recruit them, all prior information gets outed to the town, and cult learns the masons. Masons know we know all of that.

[Fdse]

Ok, masons had to be you and blatant then. I didn't realize Blatant hasn't posted after I got lynched.

[Fdse]

Also, now that I've calmed down a little bit, the setup makes more sense of:
Two Masons with 1(?) Shot Desperado
Two Cultist
5 VTs

but it's still heavily town-sided with all the cult recruitment mechanics.

[Fdse]

Also, knowing that masons had the desperado:
D1: 7v2 -> 7v1 -> 6v1
D2: 6v1 -> 5v1
D3: 5v1 -> 4v1 -> 3v1 (Mason NK'd)
D4: 3v1 (MyLo)

[Fdse]

On D3, the information would be outted, the masons out themselves because the lone cultist knows who they are, so I'd still have to swing a lynch on one of the two non-confirmed townies.

[Fdse]

Also, like, I'd be fine with this setup a bit more if the cult was actually informed the masons had a desperado shot, and could kill one of us. That would make it a bit more bearable for cult to go through the game.

[Map Wolf]

Can you confirm this statement?

@WHOEVER WAS GIVEN A TOWN MASON PM: PLEASE CONFIRM THE INFORMATION BELOW. I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS, BECAUSE IT WAS LITERALLY STATED ONLY CULT AND MASONS KNOW THIS INFORMATION. THANK YOU

Town has a masonry of two people. We [the cult] can kill the masons, otherwise if we shoot not-mason, they're unrecruitable. We have to target someone twice in order to recruit them, and upon a successful recruit, we have to start from scratch on all recruitment attempts. Masons are unrecruitable, and if we try to recruit them, all prior information gets outed to the town, and cult learns the masons. Masons know we know all of that.

That's correct.

[Fdse]

No offense to you NK15 when I say this, but jfc, this setup fucking sucked, and I have no idea how it's remotely balanced towards cult. Cult requiring two recruitment attempts to actually recruit doesn't work for a micro, where the average game will not last past D5, even with a cult involved, and even if they can recruit every night, with a limit on the number of living cultists. Additionally, giving the masons a desperado shot, and not informing the cultists of something major like that—I didn't know that Kerset could randomly get killed, and I was treating it as if that wasn't a possibility—heavily swings the balance towards town.

Had you done something similar but said cultists can only have at most three/four cultists, (between living and nonliving cultists), and may recruit every night, and they don't have any leader, that's fair leaving off the mason desperado. But not for requiring two recruitments to actually cult someone, along with a hidden mason desperado.

[Fdse]

Had this been done in a mini, or even a large, I couldn't really complain about the double recruitment attempt mechanic—the games go on for long enough where that wouldn't really be a problem to begin with. I'd question the logistics of doing that instead of restricting the number of living cultist, but it should reasonably work.

[Fdse]

But like I've said, for a micro, where the average game won't even last till D5, and forcing cult to try to recruit someone twice to actually cult them, instead of limiting the number of cultists, doesn't make sense.

[Fdse]

/rant