Players May Not Use the Word "Lynch" In Games

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Post Post #25  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:57 am

In post 23, EmyJackson1 wrote:The angry crowd that does this is called a 'lynch mob'. Though there are some people who do not like the use of this word. The teacher often invited her students to play the game as a way to practice their spelling words. No doubt, parents would object if the teacher. Once a player receives a majority vote, that player is typically ... of that term in the US, game moderators are not allowed to refer.

???

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Post Post #26  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:37 am

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Post Post #27  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:54 am

can't believe we only have like two pages instead of like 20 so far this time
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Post Post #28  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:23 am

In post 27, NotAJumbleOfNumbers wrote:can't believe we only have like two pages instead of like 20 so far this time


I posted an empty calorie post pretty much to have this in my ego in case it blew up.
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Post Post #29  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:12 am

I think the so called arguement against it was used to last time. And also in the other thread suggesting this should be made the rule. There's no need for it to blow up when the majority of people have already been doing it anyway.
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Post Post #30  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:24 am

In post 27, NotAJumbleOfNumbers wrote:can't believe we only have like two pages instead of like 20 so far this time

I think the animal spirits were expended in the Site Ideas thread proposing this.
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Post Post #31  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:32 am

In post 27, NotAJumbleOfNumbers wrote:can't believe we only have like two pages instead of like 20 so far this time


the people against it know it's pointless to object or have siteflaked long ago
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Post Post #32  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:29 pm

I thought this already was a rule a long time ago.


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Post Post #33  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:37 pm

It was previously a rule for game mods only - while players were discouraged from using it, they wouldn’t face any action for doing so.

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Post Post #34  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:14 pm

In post 31, vonflare wrote:
In post 27, NotAJumbleOfNumbers wrote:can't believe we only have like two pages instead of like 20 so far this time


the people against it know it's pointless to object or have siteflaked long ago

at least they're learning!
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Post Post #35  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:29 pm

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Post Post #36  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:18 pm

In post 28, AniX wrote:
In post 27, NotAJumbleOfNumbers wrote:can't believe we only have like two pages instead of like 20 so far this time


I posted an empty calorie post pretty much to have this in my ego in case it blew up.

same here, and for the extra voice of approval of course
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Post Post #37  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:12 am

In post 27, NotAJumbleOfNumbers wrote:can't believe we only have like two pages instead of like 20 so far this time


Last year there were staff members who were acting wildly unprofessional, instigating fights, and harassing users, including meme reaction images and youtube videos focused on single users. This year, they are no longer on the mod team.

There's another mafia site where the admins acted very professionally the first go-around, and while there were still people who disagreed, from memory that thread was much, much tamer.

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Post Post #38  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:24 am

In post 37, Dunnstral wrote:Last year there were staff members who were acting wildly unprofessional, instigating fights, and harassing users, including meme reaction images and youtube videos focused on single users. This year, they are no longer on the mod team.

I approve.
I’ve seen many moderators acting unprofessionally on this site so it’s nice to see MS has taken to cleansing itself of that sort of influence.


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Post Post #39  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:47 am

yeah lol the real bad actors in that thread were definitely the mods and not people claiming that the word was "totally unrelated to race" in the total opposite of fact or the blatant bad-faitha actors like ABR it was definitely all the mods' fault

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Post Post #40  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:52 am

Idk I don’t think I’d personally say that mods harassing the people that complained about it was a bad thing
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Post Post #41  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:46 am

In post 39, Davsto wrote:yeah lol the real bad actors in that thread were definitely the mods and not people claiming that the word was "totally unrelated to race" in the total opposite of fact or the blatant bad-faitha actors like ABR it was definitely all the mods' fault

You know it’s possible to disagree honestly and not act like your beliefs makes you superior.


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Post Post #42  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:47 am

I think it's fair to say everyone is a bit more prepared to accept this as a clearly-positive change. Twice as much given we've already had the conversation at some length once. It was a bit more sudden with the last thread, and I think there were probably a few more knee-jerk reactions which were taken pretty hard. Tensions just got really high.

I wasn't a mod then, but even as a user most of that thread was pretty hard to read along to. I'd feel strange laying blame solely with any one person or group, too. The calm approval in this thread is a great vibe.
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Post Post #43  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:57 am

I will keep the snark to a minimum and instead simply present the facts of the situation:

On another mafia site, this policy came into effect at roughly the same time. It was a little over three weeks earlier.
It first started as a user-made thread stating that the word needed to be changed. There were 284 comments in this thread, it was then locked peacefully while a new thread was made by site staff declaring that the word would no longer be used by mods in games - the same ruling originally on mafiascum.

Here are some screenshots of mod to player communication in the announcement thread. The image is blurry for some reason so I've had crop out the right side of the posts so they remain legible:

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If you're interested so far, I encourage you to read through instead of just giving it a glance. This is professionalism. The highest-level mods are in thread discussing policy change in a cordial way. There's no shaming of other users, they acknowledge that the word is ingrained in site culture and even they've used it, and having used it does not make anyone a bad person. Real conversations about the use of the word are being had, too, and further explanation for why they believe this change is for the best.

That thread was left open for a little over 4 and a half days, it was locked peacefully with 233 comments. There was dissent, of course, but it was very tame compared to what we saw here.

These are the kinds of people you want on your staff team. And honestly, a whole year ago when I then compared it to the thread we've got on this site, I honestly questioned why I was on this site, and not on that one.

Because let me show you what the staff members on this site did a year ago in that thread:

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i
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This is reprehensible.

561 and 721 are posts with no purpose but to incite anger and drama and comdemn others. Seriously, this is a site mod in a serious global discussion thread, there's no excuse for this behavior, let alone from someone representing the site.

723 is very hostile and very against the community. They made that thread an us vs them situation for themselves, and it shouldn't be that way.

767 is calling another user a racist. For additional context another list mod had made it clear that this was not the purpose of the thread. While I'm here, I might as well grab that as well, for context:

Image

What this comment chain above means is that we have one mod who seems to be speaking for the staff team, and another mod who is flying in the face of that and straight up calling other people racist publicly after the mod team said not to do that. I cannot stress this enough, this is wildly unprofessional and out of line in multiple ways.

830 continues to instigate drama. Honestly? This isn't even all on xRECKONERx at this point. Somebody on the mod team should be telling this apparent rogue mod member to shut up. It's been three hours at this point and for some reason this guy is still posting in the thread, nobody on the mod team has forced him to step back, or further policed this announcement post which is now 830 posts long in 3 hours, part of which is because of mods arguing with their users and themselves instead of discussing things like adults. Zoraster, this one is probably on you. You are frankly too hands off here, I'm guessing you posted this announcement and then stepped back to do real world stuff, not realizing things would blow up so badly... that's totally understandable but somebody has to be the professional in the thread.

To be clear, I don't mean to demonize the mod team, most of them acted fine. But somebody needs to take control and stop things from devolving into garbage, not stir things up further. And it doesn't even have to be you! There just needs to be somebody on the mod team who can do that, or action needs to be taken faster, or people need to act professionally, with class, and like adults, not like high school bullies.

841 is a youtube video made to mock a user in thread. People in the thread applauded him for posting this. Seriously?

This thread had 1250 post in 24 hours, and after an abrupt lock riding off the back of a wave of vitrol the mods simply say "thanks for your feedback."

OK. When I spell it out like that, the mafiascum community definitely posted way, way more than the... other one. And that wasn't all the mods fault, but it's hard to say just how much competently handling the situation could have done for that.

So after typing all that out, do you want to know if I think the mods were bad actors in that thread? Yeah, I do. At least in part. I believe I've outlined why above.
And yes, I believe that mods "harassing" other people is a bad thing, full stop. There is no justification for that behavior. The situation was handled unprofessionally and the result was that a lot of people got mad, and a lot of people left the site - not because of the news announcement, but because the mods started demonizing people.

Okay, with all that said, I'm not actually attacking anybody with this post. Especially not Zoraster, who I mostly wanted to make it aware that I considered him partially at fault solely because of his position of power in the community and not having a better grasp over "his" mod team. i.e. laziness and unwillingness to handle the mod team, in my opinion as an outsider. Hey, I could be completely wrong on that as well.

I do think that this ordeal was a bad look, and I am distressed that whenever I enter a thread like this to have semi-serious discussion, I feel like I'm getting dogpiled by a clique of people who I've never interacted with on the mafia side of the site. In a thread focused on the mafia side of the site. I just feel like it's more instigating from people with very low stakes in the matter. That's actually what prompted me to write this all up, I thought that the above posts from davsto and D3f3nd3r were very baitey and I didn't want to take this lying down again when the evidence is right there and I feel that I can make a good point.

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Post Post #44  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:03 am

At the time Reckoner was a Large Social Games mod, he wasn't representing any of the changes in an official capacity. You're just trying to rewrite history to paint yourself as a victim. Fuck off.
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Post Post #45  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:14 am

Oh my god
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Post Post #46  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:15 am

I feel like that post would have been better in a private PM to Zor.

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Post Post #47  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:22 am

From a mafia players point of view, it is incredibly frustrating to enter into these global site discussion and feel like you're being baited into arguments and looked down on by players who aren't as invested on the mafia side of things. That's my personal opinion.

In post 37, Dunnstral wrote:Last year there were staff members who-
In post 39, Davsto wrote:yeah lol the real bad actors in that thread were definitely the mods and not-
In post 40, D3f3nd3r wrote:Idk I don’t think I’d personally say that mods-


In post 44, chamber wrote:At the time Reckoner was a Large Social Games mod, he wasn't representing any of the changes in an official capacity.


---

I'm going to set this straight: Reckoner definitely fits into the category of people we were talking about, which prompted me to make that post.
But, even so, that's not how the world works. If you have a substantial stake in the discussion, and you're marked as a mod, people are going to get upset. I believe my point stands.

In post 46, Fluminator wrote:I feel like that post would have been better in a private PM to Zor.


I respectfully disagree. I don't see why this can't be talked about in public... being a site mod is a very public facing role and we should be allowed to air grievances. A full year has passed, and they're not on the team anymore - I feel it is ok to have these kinds of discussions.

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Post Post #48  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:26 am

In post 44, chamber wrote:You're just trying to rewrite history to paint yourself as a victim. Fuck off.


I'm not going to tolerate you resorting directly to ad hominem, by the way. I've stated what I have a problem with, that doesn't make me a bad person, and nowhere did I paint myself as a victim or try to rewrite history - that's what the screen caps are for. Back off.

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Post Post #49  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:33 am

These issues are definitely ok to talk about in public. However, I personally feel like discussion in this thread should probably center on the announcement in the OP. Maybe we can start a separate discussion in Site Ideas about the norms surrounding how mods carry themselves? Think the issue could get more focused engagement in that context anyway.
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