Newbie 1714: Mafia Thread

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Post Post #0  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 7:31 pm

Welcome to Newbie 1714! The Mafia team consists of Raskolnikov (Mafia Goon) and dvds12 (Mafia Goon).

You may discuss the game here during the Night and pregame. You may submit your nightkill target here or via PM.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me. Good luck!
Last edited by Zaicon on Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:53 am, edited 4 times in total.

Raskolnikov
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Post Post #1  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 8:06 pm

This is going to be difficult. Ranger's a good town player and as scum I'm pretty bad.
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Post Post #2  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 8:07 pm

I'm going to try to plan things out a bit...
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Post Post #3  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 8:11 pm

Okay.
Ranger is scary. F-oh-x is really good for a newbie. Beeboy's experienced though I don't know if he's good.
Rest idk. These three cooperating will be very bad if it happens though I think.
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Post Post #4  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 8:15 pm

I don't know how different IC ranger is from regular ranger. I see regular ranger as pretty vague and terse with her readslist style and here I'd want town to have an air of paranoia surrounding her.
I expect f-oh-x to obvtown this game if not early than eventually so I don't want to think about mislynch there.
Beeboy I have seen mislynched in the past for not taking the game that seriously but I'm not sure if he'll tryhard here or not.
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Post Post #5  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 8:20 pm

I'm going to poke and marginally suspect ranger in the early-midgame d1 and then return to it with an 'evaluation' after it's later in the day. The goal here being to get her to town or nullread me until we nightkill her.
I think I'll approach and possibly push beeboy midgame, or maybe start in rvs if the opportunity presents itself.
Odds are one of the newbies will be the lynch at the end of the day and that is a risk if it ends up being you.
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dvds12
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Post Post #6  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 8:28 pm

This is going to be difficult considering I have never played before, but Have done a lot of reading of different games and the wiki, so hopefully that will help.

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Post Post #7  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 8:30 pm

Do you think you're more a tone player or analytical?
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dvds12
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Post Post #8  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 8:38 pm

I think I am more of a tone player than analytical, but again I have never played before so that could change.

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Post Post #9  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 8:50 pm

My advice is not to play afraid. Activity is good and you want to be around the middle in terms of postcount here.
Try not to over-exaggerate or stretch too hard in your reads esp "scumreads" early on. People generally townread indecisiveness and the emotional vibes from people who sounds like they feel lost or clueless in their reads.
But if you feel like you have a good enough reason to "scumread" someone don't be afraid to vote them either.
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dvds12
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Post Post #10  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 8:58 pm

Ok so calm, cool, and collected is the way to play and I will definitely keep your advice in my head when the game gets started. Good thing we are playing forum and not face to face because then we would really have a problem :)

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Post Post #11  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 8:58 pm

I recommend
1. display paranoia onto one of the experienced players (possibly later in the day a bit of secondary suspicion for one of the others)
2. find someone you think doesn't make sense and vote them, especially if its one of players I mentioned
3. fake the read-"development"; if they explain themselves well you should admit that. Try not to back-off too easily but also don't stick around too long/needlessly if they did a really good job defending.
4. if possible end the push by saying you still feel uncomfortable or paranoid about them but you don't have anything logically to justify it, so you have them null or something
5. revisit it and comment at a later point just to show you haven't forgotten that you're supposed to care about said person
6. at midday/laterday try to work with your "townreads" and co-operate with what they're doing. Co operation and compromising for the lynch should be liked by them I think.

Be careful because I will have to push and/or vote you if you do something I think is 'scummy' to try to not leave behind a partner association.
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Post Post #12  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 9:05 pm

You don't have to be completely calm though, if you think you can fake panic and distress from being unjustly wagoned you can do that as well.
I think in terms of emotions you actually want to be pretty honest because people townread "these emotions are genuine" and they forget that scum can genuinely be upset too.

It's more than likely a vote or two WILL go your way this game but it's honestly more of a test people will want you to pass/respond well to than them wanting to lynch you even if they pretend otherwise.
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dvds12
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Post Post #13  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 9:11 pm

Ok got it and I understand if you have to do that, I would rather it be me voted off than you, because you seem to know what you are actually doing and thank you for the tips I appreciate it a lot, and I hope all my reading will come in handy.

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Post Post #14  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 9:14 pm

I'm linking a PT that has advice in it from a player I really respect, from a completed game of mine
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=66015

What nacho says I think is great, especially about fighting.

Although the thing about roleblocker and claiming isn't going to apply here since we're goon/goon.
I think in this case if you're l-1 late in the day and you think you'll get lynched anyways you should claim tracker so I know who to target
but if you think you can survive and that people can swing to another lynch claiming VT gives you a chance at people reconsidering
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dvds12
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Post Post #15  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 9:18 pm

Thank you again for all the help and I will definitely read if tonight or if its too long tomorrow morning. Also do you have an idea when the game usually starts?

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Post Post #16  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 9:21 pm

It'll start when most people have confirmed, which will be soon.
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Post Post #17  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 9:29 pm

I'm personally going to try to do is follow a "mindset" at any given time.
Early on it'll be the "I have no clue" mindset and without anything substantial to fake a scumread on I'll to express my feelings for not having scumreads and lightly poke people to try to get them.
Then if there's something interesting I'll go into to "interested/exploring" where I'm trying to feel out the so-called scumread and ask questions/acquire more information there.
After a while of that I'll try to fake make conclusions from it, and I'll try to be very honest and measured instead of pretending something is way more scummy than it actually is so people townread my honesty there.
and then I'll go back to "I have no clue/lost" and rinse and repeat.

I think I won't even have to lie much if I just play like a townie in a game full of townies and feel sad for not having major things to scumread and express frustration in not being confident enough in any lynch later in the day.
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Post Post #18  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 9:36 pm

I bet I can use being a new player to my advantage, I will have to give that more thought.

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Post Post #19  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 9:45 pm

The last thing I'll say is that you want to be inquisitive or "productive" in other words like you are town and you're trying at any given point to be doing something rather than just existing.

If you have a "scumread" you want to pretend to get more information to change your "confidence" in it rather than convincing everyone else they're scum or to lynch them etc.
If you backed off a read and they said a lot and new information was created you want to "re-evaluate" based on that. Remember if someone is or was your main focus of attention you're supposed to care about them later and what they do still.
If you aren't pushing or "confidently scumreading" anybody, rather than disappearing you want to act like you're someone in that position. I would be asking about things I didn't understand especially because some people will be posting very complicated cases this game. You want to ask and "know" their thought process and then judge for yourself whether you think it's "good". You want to consider if they're town and "right" on their reasoning and that someone is scummy, you want to consider if they're town and "wrong" or misguided with their reasoning on someone who's potentially town after all, and you want to consider the third option that maybe they're the scum and they're trying to cast doubt on someone for bad reasoning.

Obviously we know that the TownvsTown are just being misguided but we can't too obviously display that. It would go amiss if you assumed one thing without pretending to think about the other options.
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Post Post #20  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 9:59 pm

The towniest newbie I've ever read in game was this player
viewtopic.php?p=7825971&user_select%5B%5D=27722#p7825971
in this (completed) game
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=66019

even though he/she wasn't doing amazing scumreads and votes, just from how open and active they were everyone was townreading them.
I really think that we might not have to BS and fake scumreads much if we can try to capture the impression.

Also if you're in a position where you're getting wagoned and very scared I'd actually advise you study other newbie games and see how town act there as a bit of a reference
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Post Post #21  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 10:06 pm

Thank you again for the reading material, will definitely read this.

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Post Post #22  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 10:38 pm

If you're being wagoned I'll pretend to be for it and try to ask you specific questions to "be sure".

Questions about your scumread and thought processes, and what I feel would be decent responses
explain this read

go into detail here proportional to what the player actually has worth talking about, and about each significant "aspect" or thing about them you want to give a bit of a value judgement. I liked his X I didn't like this Y, I don't understand Z. "his posts are good/bad but his tone is bad/good". or like "I don't follow his reasoning but he just feels towny"
Give less detail for a read if its a townread unless its someone you're acting paranoid towards. Use tone if you can because people can't really argue with tone and it sort of ends discussion; but at the same time the people have to kind of understand what you're saying when you think its a certain tone even if they don't agree. I'd use a mixture of tone and "they're showing they're really thinking" to justify most townreads and "i dont understand their view as legitimate" to often justify my scumreads.

For the most part I wouldn't go into/explain a "townread" unless a) they just did a lot in the game while they we're involved much previous to that, b) said "townread" is getting wagoned, suspected or otherwise the topic of discussion, c) someone is asking me about it.
explain this thought process

go into it and especially what you were "thinking at the time". If pretty much everyone disagrees or like logically disproves it you can definitely say you were possibly wrong there. It's okay to be "swayed" a bit and see things differently after hearing opposing arguments, moreso if they come from a third party than the person itself though.
what are your other scumreads this game? (since you probably already talked about your first at this point)

what people will like to see is self-doubt and frustration on the side choices, and even on your first is people have "proved" it was bad logic or faulty
how do you feel about the wagon against you? Who do you think is town voting you as opposed to scum being opportunistic?

what people will like to see is an answer with some depth in it as opposed to the simplistic "they're all town" or the "they're all scum" wagoning me.
In reality this a question that nobody should answer sounding too certain because it's a really hard thing to judge so you want to just show some paranoia on someone wagoning you maybe and on someone you're really "townreading" feel sad they're voting you.
If I was being voted by my best or second best "townread" I'd almost say sorry and try to give off the impression that I'm upset and don't know how things could have gotten to that point. That I used bad logic and am remorseful rather than doubling down if it's clearly not a defendable position. If I'm being voted by my "scumreads" obviously I'll act differently there and suspect their being malicious in their push, but even there I'd have to act according to how "confident" I'm pretending to be in that scumread so my response or tone isn't mismatching my read on him.
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Post Post #23  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 10:43 pm

Anyways good luck. I know it's a lot to take in but the game will be quiet early on so you'll have a lot of time to think about things.
Remember RVS is mostly nitpicking for pressure and you don't have to fake a confident scumread until quite a way into the day.
Revisit later maybe. I wouldn't have posted all this if we had daytalk but I feel like the odds are against us here; my record as scum is pretty bad so we'll have to survive pressure and wagons until they move onto other people if we want to win this game.
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Post Post #24  (ISO)  » Tue May 31, 2016 10:48 pm

In post 21, dvds12 wrote:Thank you again for the reading material, will definitely read this.

Useful but don't use it TOO hard. Remember most people are new here too.
Also the way in which you use it is key.

Good usage: Sorry to bother you, what does X complicated concept I saw in your post mean? [asking questions, showing it but not over-the-top]
Concerning usage: As I said earlier, this is my first game so I don't understand. *brings it up 4 times* [too self-conscious]
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