Firefly/Serenity: Reasonably Rational hydra PT

[Almost50]

Hello gentlemen. This is your hydra PT. Enjoy and GOOD LUCK.

[Cerberus v666]

Hi hi.

Alright, so we need to know a couple things.

1) Will our own ability trigger as an incoming action on the target?
2) If the target has multiple actions going in or out, will we see how many are happening of each type? Are results formatted as "X had one incoming and one outgoing action/X had two incoming and one outgoing action", or "X had incoming and outgoing actions" You get the point, degree of precision of the information we gain.
3) If we target someone who has been roleblocked, attempted an action, and has no other incoming actions besides our own and the roleblock, what would our result be?
4) Will our results identify the target who our ability was activated on?

Thanks!

[Cerberus v666]

Also, just for you A50:

cerberus_v6.66 [11:12 AM]
Role PM
Hello Reasonably Rational

You are [full flavour will be revealed upon your flip or at the end of the game]. This ship is your home and the crew is your family. In an effort to protect them, each night you may target one other player to see if they've spent the night in their chamber and/or have been visited by someone.

Role: Modified Motion Detector (You get told whether the action detected was incoming or outgoing)

You win when all threats to Serenity and its crew have been eliminated.
Need to ask if we can see number of actions/if actions are differentiated
Will we just get a "an action was outgoing and incoming"
or "2 actions incoming, one outgoing"

etc.

drixx [11:47 AM]
Quick on the trigger

cerberus_v6.66 [12:05 PM]
So
who are we?
Like
Mr. Universe?
Booker?

drixx [12:06 PM]
Mr. Universe seems most likely

cerberus_v6.66 [12:10 PM]
Yeah
I can't really think of anyone else who makes sense
This feels like a very strong role for us
if it gives full information

drixx [12:14 PM]
So we need to avoid being killed
So we should play strong day one

cerberus_v6.66 [12:14 PM]
yeah
that's fine
I can do that
you can also do that
We might get ourselves shot at
but we can make sure we get protected
I believe

drixx [12:16 PM]
If we had a good role we would be expected to try and appear mislynchable

cerberus_v6.66 [12:17 PM]
Fair
Yeah
it'll be a good exercise to
let's play counter to form
The list is also familiar enough with us that the reactions to decisiveness and actual pushing early will be informative

drixx [12:20 PM]
Yep

-------------------------------------------

The beginnings of our conversation. We have started plotting. So you'll get to see us be different. This should be interesting

[Cerberus v666]

CONFIRMED LET'S GO

[Almost50]

1) Will our own ability trigger as an incoming action on the target?

No, as that would certainly confuse you.

2) If the target has multiple actions going in or out, will we see how many are happening of each type?

No. You only get told that there was an incoming/outgoing action. That can automatically be interpreted as "at least one action" instead of "an action"

Are results formatted as "X had one incoming and one outgoing action/X had two incoming and one outgoing action", or "X had incoming and outgoing actions" You get the point, degree of precision of the information we gain.

Just the direction (in/out) but not the number of actions.

3) If we target someone who has been roleblocked, attempted an action, and has no other incoming actions besides our own and the roleblock, what would our result be?

Your target had an incoming action (aside from yours, whether or not I say so). Since their action was blocked from the source (the Roleblocker stopped them from taking that action) then it follows they took no action.

On contrast, if the action was taken and blocked at the target (Example: Your target is a killer who hit on a BP, Doctor save, Jailkeeper block, you name it..) your target will show as having action outgoing from them because they did take the action, but it failed.

4) Will our results identify the target who our ability was activated on?

This is not a Normal, so it will always be "Your target" regardless of whether or not the need exists for being ambiguous

You're clever (as always) and I'm just trying to be up to it, so not gonna tell you whether a Redirector/Bus Driver/Reflector..etc. exist in this setup.

[Almost50]

The beginnings of our conversation. We have started plotting. So you'll get to see us be different. This should be interesting

OMG! I'm in HEAVEN. I get to see you guys debating with each other in real time. Boy oh boy! *Happy dance*

[Cerberus v666]

Hey A50 you didn't give our hydra account permission to post in the PT.

[Almost50]

Probably because I wanted to be absolutely sure which head was talking at all time??

I'll fix that right away.

[Cerberus v666]

cerberus_v6.66 [12:54 PM]
Also flavor wise
Reavers
and Alliance
as scum
Maybe an SK
maybe single scum 2x sk
idk
lots of optoins
The Operative could easily be an SK
The reavers have nothing notable about any of them to build something around
like, any specific individuals.

drixx [12:56 PM]
3 faction? Cult faction?

cerberus_v6.66 [12:59 PM]
No cults
not bastard
reavers would make sense as a cult analogue
but yeah
I mean, there are lots of town people who could have killing powers

drixx [1:00 PM]
So fast bloody game?
Means we need to be on it

cerberus_v6.66 [1:00 PM]
Jayne, Zoe, and River can all be vig's easily

drixx [1:00 PM]
I was hoping for River btw

cerberus_v6.66 [1:00 PM]
Mal could also be one
everybody was hoping for river


drixx [1:01 PM]
I would have totally geeked out with weird phrases in short posts

cerberus_v6.66 [1:01 PM]
lol
I mean
we can still do that

drixx [1:01 PM]
Consequences of that obvious a crumb be damned

cerberus_v6.66 [2:30 PM]
Alright, so it's not full information
and our own ability doesn't trigger it
so all we learn is is our target(unspecified, so we won't know if we were redirected somehow) performed at least one action and/or had at least one action performed on them
Purely binary is less useful
Particularly i n a game that I would expect to be more role madness than not.

cerberus_v6.66 [10:35 PM]
So, TW and Toranaga both picked up on the difference in my play
it would be more pronounced, but I wasn' tlying when I said their little exchange demotivated me a bit
That, plus other distractions

cerberus_v6.66 [7:48 AM]
FYI, we're at L-2 now.
Went to L-3 overnight on fluff
all active posters just migrated to the wagon sequentially to pressure our slot(which is something they've been doing to different people)

cerberus_v6.66 [8:02 AM]
Anyways, I'm at work man
you should like
read through the game
pull on all the threads
ask people questions(unrelated to us, except where necessary), and push things you find scummy.
In short, go be town
I don't have the time today.

I don't think we should spend any time on defending ourselves
except explaining the situation as we see it if anyone asks for the reason(s) behind the wagon

drixx [8:31 AM]
I mean ... after I get done work and see the doctor I've got a few hours before D&D
I will try and check in quickly before that
but like ... day one against RR ... I'm so shocked

cerberus_v6.66 [8:31 AM]
Fair
Well
The people with the most recent experience playing with us voted us
likely because of the different playstyle
or likely, were more comfortable doing so for that reason
the other votes are more interesting, generally.
Toogeloo, Tora, Cheeky, tw, Nico, Elsa -- L-3
Tora/TW saw us recently, saw a good bit of my play at least, and decided I'm playing differntly, which I am
Toogeloo is pure gut, essentially
Cheeky dislikes what they view as leading questions(I assume, not cited specifically but was previously mentioned) asked by me
Nico is paranoid/unhappy with us for making the gems lose in SU2
and Elsa....is following the wagon because they see no reason ont to
and Thor is also now on the wagon with the ohpes of pushing us to L-1 and forcing a claim, it seems
Bujaber is willing to vote us, but cognizant of the risks of putting peopel at L-1 so early in the game.
their complaint is disliking an early conversation about Elsa Jay's immediate acceptance and support of a mason claim RC made...there were a number of members of that conversation, including myself, and they feel the time it took was disproportionate to the value it provided/time it should have taken, and are concerned about scum ballooning the thread eliberately, so are looking for scum in that group.
There was some pressure voting on Skygazer because they weren't saying anything, small wagon formed, then it moved to Toranaga(got up to 4/5), and now it's moved on to us.
I think that basically catches you up
but we need to look deeper obviously.

drixx [9:14 AM]
I checked in and got a few pages in

cerberus_v6.66 [9:22 AM]
*nod*
you currently agree with me about RC so good job.

drixx [12:11 PM]
Independently too since you didn’t do anything but gist me
Thread link plz?

cerberus_v6.66 [12:27 PM]
oh
sorry man
did you get it?

[Drixx]

Like ... I think the first time Varsoon got relatively real time updates of our conversations he reacted the same way.

I'll be interested to see how you feel about it if we survive long enough to write another novel this game. ;p

[Reasonably Rational]

Hydra ego.

-Cerb

[Almost50]

I'll be interested to see how you feel about it if we survive long enough to write another novel this game. ;p

That would be interesting indeed!

[Almost50]

OK, now that the game is slowing down a bit I can talk elsewhere. So, what lead you guys to believe you were one of Mr. Universe/Booker specifically?

[Reasonably Rational]

OK, now that the game is slowing down a bit I can talk elsewhere. So, what lead you guys to believe you were one of Mr. Universe/Booker specifically?

Nobody else actually makes sense as someone who would JUST observe other people without taking action.

I think we're actually leaning more towards Booker now because the sample PM does not include the bit about the ship being our home, etc. That means that isn't a generic thing that went to everyone, so it's unique to our character. Therefore we're on the crew. Therefore we're likely booker. Mal/Jayne/River/Zoe can probably kill. Wash can probably do some redirection shit(idk, pilot to busdriver parallels), Simon is obviously a doctor, Kaylee is who fucking knows, same with Shepherd Book. Of the two, Shepherd Book makes more sense as someone who checks on people and finds out shit is happening. Kaylee...could do all sorts of things.

So yeah.

[Reasonably Rational]

OK, now that the game is slowing down a bit I can talk elsewhere. So, what lead you guys to believe you were one of Mr. Universe/Booker specifically?

Nobody else actually makes sense as someone who would JUST observe other people without taking action.

I think we're actually leaning more towards Booker now because the sample PM does not include the bit about the ship being our home, etc. That means that isn't a generic thing that went to everyone, so it's unique to our character. Therefore we're on the crew. Therefore we're likely booker. Mal/Jayne/River/Zoe can probably kill. Wash can probably do some redirection shit(idk, pilot to busdriver parallels), Simon is obviously a doctor, Kaylee is who fucking knows, same with Shepherd Book. Of the two, Shepherd Book makes more sense as someone who checks on people and finds out shit is happening. Kaylee...could do all sorts of things.

So yeah.

-Cerb

[Drixx]

Shepherd Book several times in the series was checking in on things and watching when others weren't aware.

[Almost50]

Well, I've typed an deleted 4 different responses for fear I might be interfering one way or another.

I mean, even if I only said "OK." that could be interpreted as "I agree." and thus confirming your flavour as Shepherd Book.
If I said "But.." it could be interpreted as "You missed. Try again."

In short, I find myself caught between a rock and a hard place, so this is why I'll pretend I didn't ask (curiosity really did kill the cat, it seems)

[Reasonably Rational]

Well, I've typed an deleted 4 different responses for fear I might be interfering one way or another.

I mean, even if I only said "OK." that could be interpreted as "I agree." and thus confirming your flavour as Shepherd Book.
If I said "But.." it could be interpreted as "You missed. Try again."

In short, I find myself caught between a rock and a hard place, so this is why I'll pretend I didn't ask (curiosity really did kill the cat, it seems)

It's all good man.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Another slack dump, sorry for the delay!

cerberus_v6.66 [12:44 PM]
Note that we're not actually L-1
we're actually L-2 because Toranaga unvoted
but I'm going to continue acting like we're L-1 until someone notices

cerberus_v6.66 [1:55 PM]
so
reading the game...?

drixx [2:24 PM]
Need a link. Asked ages ago

cerberus_v6.66 [2:43 PM]
search.php?search_id=egosearch
I mean
fuck
sorry
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77420
considering you never responded to me ages ago
you wouldn't hve seen the link ages ago
had I posted it then

Also, how hard is it to go to the theme park?

drixx [2:44 PM]
Thank you... reading

cerberus_v6.66 [2:44 PM]
and go to the top thing?

drixx [2:44 PM]
?

cerberus_v6.66 [2:45 PM]
Instead of waiting for a link...you could have jsut went to the appropriate forum...and found the thread for the game...or followed the link that was sent to you on your main or hte hydra...
anyways
read away

drixx [3:57 PM]
Ping away when you’re ready

cerberus_v6.66 [4:03 PM]
About mafia?
Other channel if not.

drixx [6:08 AM]
RC Post #756 - Thoughts?
My brain says RC only ever saw me as scum in a weird streak of newbie games where I got scum repeatedly
So probably unaware of the fact that other people have expressed a much different opinion RE my scum play
and I'm trying to remember you as scum

drixx [9:06 AM]
So I'm doing a dual thing atm. Catching up and pulling at things that seem notable given what I'm seeing in the current posting. It's not ideal but it is keeping me from falling behind further while catching up.
I voted Toranaga because he might town spew hard
Like ... it's day one and he's pretty invested so I kinda want to see where the pressure leads

cerberus_v6.66 [9:14 AM]
*nods* fair. Fyi. My vote has been on Toranaga for quite some time, so you just supported my decision to not unvote

drixx [9:14 AM]
Oh cool

cerberus_v6.66 [9:14 AM]
With regards to RC: in your white flag game
He was scum with me
Under an alt

drixx [9:15 AM]
Interesting

cerberus_v6.66 [9:15 AM]
Likely why he has a stronger memory of me as scum than you.

drixx [9:15 AM]
I'm pretty sure he wasn't participating or aware of any of my really stellar scum games

cerberus_v6.66 [9:15 AM]
Though I've asked him before outside of a game of his thoughts on my scum game

drixx [9:15 AM]
he WAS in a few games when I rolled scum like 9 out of 11 or something

cerberus_v6.66 [9:15 AM]
And he claimed to not rememberer

drixx [9:15 AM]
and I was seriously not up to playing scum how I play scum in all of them
I didn't want to replace out and make it super obvious
but like ... only have so much energy for that style of play
shit is exhausting

cerberus_v6.66 [9:16 AM]
He may have also been in FFT?
Alt game and all that

drixx [9:16 AM]
Yeah possibly

cerberus_v6.66 [9:16 AM]
And not everyone was revealed

drixx [9:16 AM]
I mean... I never revealed. You had a guess at who I was I believe, but I never confirmed or denied.

cerberus_v6.66 [9:17 AM]
Only possible games where he'd see me as scum directly. Not sure about your history.
Anyways. Gotta drive to work. Was running an errand for work. Time to head back. I'll be back in 30

drixx [9:17 AM]
I mean ... not trying to be arrogant, but I think I kinda carried us for a long stretch in SU2 because you didn't think it was worth the effort when we realized we would have to play out like 6 or 7 day phases and avoid lynch and could only win in a 3 player finale
that's like ... _really_ sloppy too; I don't actually remember how many days we were basically alone, but it felt like a fucking year.

cerberus_v6.66 [12:40 PM]
mmm
You can be arrogant
I'm pretty sure I carry us for the majority of our games, so I'll let you have that one withotu fact checking it

<3

drixx [12:41 PM]
I suppose that depends, heavily, upon what "carry" means

cerberus_v6.66 [12:41 PM]
yeah

drixx [12:41 PM]
You post a lot

cerberus_v6.66 [12:41 PM]
I do.
is it always good?
probably not

drixx [12:41 PM]
I bring the balls to the fight

cerberus_v6.66 [12:41 PM]
This is an interesting dynamic in this game
lots of significant wagoning happening
for so early in the day
usually it's disparate, and consolidates into two
instead we have a series of flash wagons with 5+ votes of willingness behind them
enough of a wagon that it has to be taken seriously
How far into the thread are y ou?

drixx [12:45 PM]
over half

cerberus_v6.66 [2:52 PM]
Yo yo
all caught up now?

drixx [2:53 PM]
yep
been posting
Also been thinking about our role. Mr. Universe knew who was doing what. Makes much more sense for us to be Shepherd Book keeping an eye on people and getting whacked on the back of the head. We know something happens but not who did it.
but I mean ... I don't think flavor gaming is going to go much of anyplace so not a lot of thoughts there
concerned about if EJ really is a 3P, given the role you had with wguerts

cerberus_v6.66 [3:01 PM]
Book was the next possibility, yes
but I eh
idk
I feel like he'd have something else going on
maybe not though
Although the fact that our character does specifically say that the serenity is our home
yeah
must be book then

drixx [3:30 PM]
I mean ... ALL town could say serenity is their home?
but there's such a wealth of characters across the spectrum who aren't on the ship, it would be really weird to only use the ship crew/passengers for that
although I suppose it would explain the redaction of precise flavor

cerberus_v6.66 [3:34 PM]
well
I'm only saying this because of the sample role pm
it does not include the bit about the serenity being their home
Hello Almost50

You are [full flavour will be revealed upon your flip or at the end of the game]. You are a Flying Pumpkin That Shoots Laser Beams Out Of Its Ass. Each night you may target a player to kill them. By default you have a 75% chance of hitting your target. You also have a 25% of surviving an attempt on your life. Once in the game though you may "aim" to change your shooting precision to 100% in exchange for your 25% BP on that night.

You win when all threats to Serenity and its crew have been eliminated.
compared to ours
Hello Reasonably Rational

You are [full flavour will be revealed upon your flip or at the end of the game]. This ship is your home and the crew is your family. In an effort to protect them, each night you may target one other player to see if they've spent the night in their chamber and/or have been visited by someone.

Role: Modified Motion Detector (You get told whether the action detected was incoming or outgoing)

You win when all threats to Serenity and its crew have been eliminated.

drixx [3:43 PM]
Btw ... survivor with doc power basically is Simon
like ... he doesn't give a shit about anything but him and his sister surviving

cerberus_v6.66 [3:44 PM]
Disagree
Kaylee

drixx [3:44 PM]
Kaylee clearly has eyes for him
he never really got around to anything there because his primary concern was his sister

cerberus_v6.66 [3:45 PM]
This includes the movie too
I mean
there's at least one episode, and the movie, where their interests are mutual
He's only super selfish dick guy in the first episode

drixx [3:46 PM]
Sure. I mean Joss was obviously setting them up long term
but what we have for content of the show ... he trades his services for keeping him and his sister a step ahead of the alliance

cerberus_v6.66 [3:46 PM]
And yes, he cares about his sister more than the rest of the crew

drixx [3:46 PM]
even going so far as to "hire" the crew to do a job for him

cerberus_v6.66 [3:46 PM]
but he's absolutely not a 3p
Don't buy 3p Simon
I view it as a ridiculous stretch

drixx [3:47 PM]
I don't know how much more on the ship but not part of the group you can get than hiring the ship to do a job
I'm just evaluating the claim as if it's true: if true, Simon seems like the only plausible candidate

cerberus_v6.66 [3:48 PM]
There are three doctor characters in the series/movie outside of Simon
The Blue Gloves
Whoever teh doctor was who ran the experiments on River
and the Dr. who recorded the video about the reavers

drixx [3:49 PM]
The Blue Gloves seem like more mess with the mind types, and are evil

cerberus_v6.66 [3:49 PM]
I also forgot to mention Saffron when talking about "enemies" that are important
inthe thread
Saffron shows up repeatedly

drixx [3:50 PM]
The doctor who oversaw the experiments is also clearly evil

cerberus_v6.66 [3:50 PM]
Agreed.
So

drixx [3:50 PM]
and the doctor who recorded the reavers has been dead since before the 1st episode time wise

cerberus_v6.66 [3:50 PM]
Do you tink it's more likely that we have a scum doc when one of the possible scum groups contains *2* doctor entities

drixx [3:50 PM]
and in fact probably before reavers were a known thing I think?

cerberus_v6.66 [3:50 PM]
or that Simon is 3p?

drixx [3:51 PM]
I could see this being multiball with a scum doc on each side

cerberus_v6.66 [3:51 PM]
*nods*

drixx [3:51 PM]
I could also see reasons to classify Simon as 3p

cerberus_v6.66 [3:51 PM]
More likely yo

drixx [3:51 PM]
which means Elsa has to be read the hard way

cerberus_v6.66 [3:51 PM]
Meh
I think it's more likely she's just scum, but yeah
Was planning on watching her announced target tonight
brtb

drixx [3:52 PM]
I mean ... the thing about Simon is that he doesn't really truly commit to the team until the last act of the movie. Before that he's always among but apart.
Getting some easy town reads coming our way
not sure how I feel about Chickadee just listing us as town without any reasoning

cerberus_v6.66 [4:10 PM]
It's not reasonless
viewtopic.php?p=10473397#p10473397
no reason listed there
but they did have a previously expressed townread on us
by there, I mean in the list you're referencing.

drixx [4:11 PM]
Fair enough I suppose; just dislike blank reads when someone is taking the time to give a brief gist of reasons

cerberus_v6.66 [4:11 PM]
yeah
absolutely
call her out on it
why not mention the reason previously expressed again
well
hell
don't mention the reason to her
just call her out on it
see if she remembers she had a reason to townread us before

drixx [4:13 PM]
Also a bit uncomfortable with Nico's ISO
the only substantive post is "RR is good as scum, and I have a vendetta against them"

cerberus_v6.66 [4:17 PM]
yeah
absolutely

cerberus_v6.66 [5:25 PM]
So
I just looked at TEPOIU
WHATEVER THEIR NAME IS
their iso from their last game
33 posts
replaced on mid day 2, @1500 posts in
*replaced out*
scum slot.
more posts at the start of that day than they've shown here
but still very low amount of content
the content they posted there *was* more useful though.

cerberus_v6.66 [10:34 PM]
So, porkens alt
Don't remember anything notable about porkens play.
But there is a lot more meta to dig into if we were inclined.

cerberus_v6.66 [1:44 PM]
So!
Notable thoughts to share
Since you're caught up, and the game has slowed?
Also, you know, maybe in addition to this slack, we should digitize those notes you take. Shared Google doc, so I don't have to ping you to see where your thoughts are on things. and vice versa(though I think I tend to tell you everything I think of as i think of it, while you collect your thoughts and infodump).

cerberus_v6.66 [10:24 AM]
Sooooo
Do we have things to saay
?

drixx [11:32 AM]
Not that I think are going to do anything worthwhile with the game coming to a grinding halt
like ... Tora/Nancy slot is probably scum

cerberus_v6.66 [11:32 AM]
oh hey you're back

drixx [11:33 AM]
Toog feels like probably also in that same spot
Thor is being Thor and is probably town for being stubborn
Actually ... I take the Tora/Nancy slot thing back
My reasoning was flawed
I'll need to read them in ISO since nancy came in again and see why I've got contradictory ideas

cerberus_v6.66 [11:38 AM]
What was the reasoning?

drixx [11:38 AM]
Nancy is being almost over the top placating towards us
actually towards more than us
but it's a total change
every other post I made in heroes wanted she was pretending was an insult

cerberus_v6.66 [11:39 AM]
total change from what we saw from scum her?
fair

drixx [11:39 AM]
but like ... it was such a dramatic change it made me think scum except then I realized maybe the scum "blonde act" was a really good "pretend to be an airhead to cover any mistakes" approach
because like ... that's what caught her out to me... nobody is that vapid lol

cerberus_v6.66 [11:40 AM]
ah
possibly

cerberus_v6.66 [12:38 PM]
alright
what about Flicker?
Do you know them at all?

drixx [12:38 PM]
not at all

cerberus_v6.66 [12:38 PM]
the most recent post is definitely worthy of side eye

drixx [12:38 PM]
side note: reading Varsoon's guide to modding

cerberus_v6.66 [12:38 PM]
but like
it's good attention to detail?
I think it's townlike pedantry
but that says nothing about motivation
ah
I already read that
I think i've read everyone's guides to modding

as they put htem out
because it's interesting to see the different viewpoints

drixx [12:39 PM]
it's a whole bunch of nothing in that post then a very pedantic vote for chara
and there's a pile of reasons to believe Chara is town, not least of which is Chara's posting since taking the slot
it's kind of worthy of voting actually
since our NR vote isn't doing fuck all atm

cerberus_v6.66 [12:44 PM]
Fair
thoughts on this list
Jingle the worst
Flicker
BuJaber
Reasonably Rational
Malakittens
northsidegal
the list of people
that jingles wanted reactions from?
Also, Chara is (hard) crumbing IC now
Well
hard cruming IC
or else a vengeful role, whatever the thing is that kills someone on your wagon
or an outright vig
I guess

cerberus_v6.66 [4:32 PM]
DAMNIT JON

drixx [4:32 PM]
?

cerberus_v6.66 [4:40 PM]
you went silent


drixx [4:40 PM]
nothing particularly noteworthy
I didn't catch the IC crumbing
I'll look again

cerberus_v6.66 [4:43 PM]
It's their reference to RC's statemetn
*statements*
about how you tunneling him would result in our death
Our 324
in response to RC's 322
viewtopic.php?p=10471679#p10471679
Basically RC said he couldn't be mislynched, and that if we tunneled them we'd die
I said that means they're scum, and therefore can't be mislynched, or they're town, and wrong.
tongue in cheek response
but other, real possibilities
IC

drixx [4:46 PM]
We've been down that road before ... but I thought you were saying Chara dropped a crumb

cerberus_v6.66 [4:46 PM]
Vig
etc
naw
and no, we didn't discuss it
this is the shit that's in your head and you don't share it with me.

drixx [4:46 PM]
SU Prequel

cerberus_v6.66 [4:46 PM]
oh

drixx [4:46 PM]
literally my note for that exchange

cerberus_v6.66 [4:47 PM]
I don't think you said that in the thread
maybe you did


drixx [4:47 PM]
No and I didn't dump a ton of catch up thoughts on you because most of it was pretty well resolved
seems unlikely to be relelvant until later

cerberus_v6.66 [4:48 PM]

And ah
you didn't actually say anything about that exchange with RC
it was the other exchange you responded to
Okay, cool
so nobody actually vocalized those thoughts in here
Anyways, just saying that whatever RC was doing, Chara is making a point of reiterating it.

cerberus_v6.66 [8:49 AM]
yo

cerberus_v6.66 [1:14 PM]
dude
so wtf man
lynch on porkens
toogeloo hammers
like
with no thoughts
*thought*

drixx [1:17 PM]
Looks bad

cerberus_v6.66 [1:20 PM]
yeah
but like
Toogeloo knows better as scum right?
just take it at face value?
make sure they die tomorrow?
For our night action
who do we think Elsa would be most likely to heal, if not lying?
I don't know what else we could be looking for
:-/
Do we target probtown
or probscum
like
motion detector is weird


cerberus_v6.66 [1:50 PM]
scum flip is good
but they're a traitor, so informationless lynch
Damn the locked thread
I was writing my response to Elsa's bit
*sigh*
Anyways
Things we can now theorize about the setup
3 scum factions minimum
Hands of Blue+Dobbs, Operative(because no way he's NOT in the game, yet he's not mentioned), and Reavers
bare minimum
any of those factions could have an addiitonal member
though I don't know what they'd be

drixx [1:54 PM]
I’ll read up and check in after I finish some work; apologies I can’t realtime atm

cerberus_v6.66 [1:54 PM]
oh wait
hands of blue is two different players
so hands of blue=two slots, plus dobbs as a traitor
operative as sorta sk probably
and reavers as sk
no worries, just dropping thoughts

cerberus_v6.66 [6:15 PM]
I think we should motion detect Flicker
(only other claim out there, and she claimed a useless NU role)

drixx [6:15 PM]
K

cerberus_v6.66 [6:15 PM]
And consider fake claiming expended vig
who shot at Elsa last night
1) I sincerely do want vigs to shoot at the 3p
and if they think her bp was removed, it's more likely to happen
2) lowers our value/threat rating
with flickers claim of a pure NU role
a single shot vig isn't too low on the power curve
Not sure if it's a good play, but it's one that came to mind on my drive home

cerberus_v6.66 [12:17 PM]
Yoy
*yoyo*

drixx [2:06 PM]
Hey. I just got this.

cerberus_v6.66 [2:12 PM]
Ello

cerberus_v6.66 [2:37 PM]
We lived
And flicker did something
and also had something done to them.

cerberus_v6.66 [2:49 PM]
Also
our results were tampered with
Toogeloo has claimed(effecitvely) lightning rod

cerberus_v6.66 [3:50 PM]
Well
I actually think Toogeloo
if River, as he thinks he could be
is more likely to be a JOAT
that includes lightning rod

[Almost50]

Oh, well.. watching the game is certainly a joy, but watching the flavour speculation is equally as entertaining (and I'm not talking about just you).

The reason the flavour was redacted is the game could very easily be broken by mass claiming if flavour was available. This is also the case if the flavour could be easily deduced from the role with certainty.

But let's look at it another way: We have a flip. Does the flavour fit? I believe it does. Dobson was an alliance agent and so were HoB. I could have easily made him separate killing role though and it would still fit (he did work alone). I could have changed the winning con to just killing River or the Tam siblings. I could have made him a lyncher instead, or even a scum investigator of some sort (Tracker comes to mind) and IMHO those would all fit the flavour all the same. So, while "Mafia Traitor" does not directly spell "Lawrence Dobson"; Dobson as a Mafia Traitor makes perfect sense (at least to me). Am I making sense here?

[Drixx]

Yes but like ... maybe oversharing slightly. As it happens we already kind of talked about a lot of what you just said but still ;p

[Reasonably Rational]

More!

Have fun figuring out where this matches up with the game state.

FYI, my time zone is MST. ^^

cerberus_v6.66 [9:42 AM]
Yo

drixx [9:54 AM]
Yao!

cerberus_v6.66 [9:55 AM]
'sup?
Game thoughts?

drixx [9:57 AM]
As of last night EJ was seriously pinging me
Haven’t looked yet today
Will have gobs of time in an hour or so

cerberus_v6.66 [10:12 AM]
k

drixx [10:16 AM]
Also I think we need to look back at the earlier part of the game where flavor discussion happened
some people were VERY careful to stick to the "don't have actual flavor"
I think it's possible/probable that we have caught scum there
We know now due to the Porkens flip that scum get their flavor and a warning that town don't

cerberus_v6.66 [10:17 AM]
yeah

drixx [10:17 AM]
We also know that we got SOME flavor in our Role PM, just not SPECIFIC CHARACTER flavor

cerberus_v6.66 [10:17 AM]
mhm
which is why I was pushing FLicker

drixx [10:17 AM]
People denying any kind of "this ship is your home ..." stuff

cerberus_v6.66 [10:18 AM]
mhm

drixx [10:18 AM]
That's a huge blaring neon sign

cerberus_v6.66 [10:18 AM]
Yeah
it's eh

drixx [10:18 AM]
Nope. That's scum.

cerberus_v6.66 [10:18 AM]
maybe a full flavor claim

drixx [10:18 AM]
Like ... caught out scum period.

cerberus_v6.66 [10:18 AM]
but eh
we can't do it though
and hmm
it only works until they see a real town flip

drixx [10:18 AM]
There's no way that A50 threw in that bit about the ship only to us

cerberus_v6.66 [10:19 AM]
well
I hope not

drixx [10:19 AM]
I mean ... we can sit on it until we see a town flip

cerberus_v6.66 [10:19 AM]
honestly, it's a bit of an oversight

drixx [10:19 AM]
but if we say nothing and that flip is us

cerberus_v6.66 [10:19 AM]
yeah
that's the problem

drixx [10:19 AM]
Do we even think the rest of the game will catch that small a detail?

cerberus_v6.66 [10:19 AM]
and is flicker actually a huge glaring neon sign?

drixx [10:19 AM]
Like ... that's our wheelhouse
reread that exchange
they did NOT want to answer that question
Going so far as to cite fear of modkill for talking about it
And there was no reason to specifically be concerned about that exchange _until_ we saw that scum are informed of their character and warned that we are not
So a scum put in that position has to say they have nothing because revealing anything they have could out them

cerberus_v6.66 [10:22 AM]
yeah
Again, oversight on A50's part

cerberus_v6.66 [10:33 AM]
Jingle thinks there are no investigatives
which is a good belief for us to see spread
I'm just concerned that the bit about the ship is your home etc
really is just unique to us

drixx [10:37 AM]
I think that's just not possible
not all town can be on the ship because the ship is limited to: Mal, Zoe, Wash, Book, Kaylee, Enara, Simon, River, Jayne and possibly the recurring con artist woman.
MAYBE the original mechanic
so 11 slots if we're stretching it can have the "this ship is your home..."
but ... anyone else would have to have something like "your loyalty to Mal goes back to your days in the war together" (the kid who faked being dead and got mailed to Mal) or SOMETHING
it would be a colossal mistake on A50's part to put that bit of flavor in some town role pm's but leave others barren
and Varsoon checked this game
QED - Denying any flavor at all is a scum claim, now that we've seen that scum flip
with the obvious low probability situation where A50 DID make that mistake and somehow Varsoon didn't catch it
but like ... Flicker is already sus

cerberus_v6.66 [10:44 AM]
So here's the thing
THere are two potential oversights
either the one where scum were not given the information they needed
to properly pretend to be uninformed town
or the one where *one* slot had flavor that was not removed
and that was missed

drixx [10:45 AM]
The latter seems like a tiny probability Varsoon misses it

cerberus_v6.66 [10:45 AM]
It seems more likely than the first

drixx [10:45 AM]
he learned the really really hard way to check for that kind of thing

cerberus_v6.66 [10:45 AM]
Neither seems likely

drixx [10:45 AM]
Scum were warned that town didn't know their own identity so that they could not mass flavor claim
that is a sufficient warning

cerberus_v6.66 [10:46 AM]
Any chance we die tonight?
Eh
multiple kill
*kills*
decent probability
let's watch
and push the flicker defenders
see the reactions there

drixx [10:46 AM]
telling scum "Town players do not know their own identity in order to prevent flavor breaking the game. Also, they have some random flavor to make it more thematic." would allow them to know precisely how to blend in
it would swing it too far in their favor

cerberus_v6.66 [10:47 AM]
I disagree

drixx [10:47 AM]
All scum had to do was get some town player to talk about their role pm
like ... if we had been pressured hard enough we could have spewed that bit in our role PM on the assumption that a pile of other town players had exactly that
AND
we wouldn't have known then but we would know now that scum would NOT have that
which would probably impact how they responded
like ... I'm gonna be SUPER disappointed if the actual character redaction to prevent flavor break was done so sloppily man
it's not hard to ensure all town have a little bit of flavor
like ... not at all

cerberus_v6.66 [10:50 AM]
Yeah
I was pushing looking for specifically that bit
hackles raised because of their belief that they were likely book
but still

drixx [10:51 AM]
I mean ... here's the thing
Priest is not the only reason someone's vote might not count
There are so many possible reasons for that and pushing so hard to "prove" they "can't kill" ...
plus ... Shepherd Book ended up being a much deeper character than that. I would _also_ be a bit disappointed if A50/Varsoon left Book so one dimensional
But I mean ... it's plausible that Priest role could be real
but ... Book would have the same exact phrase we have
Barring a huge mod screwup
Book would absolutely have that text
Let's break the role PM down
Preamble: Hello {Player Name}
Character: You are {Redacted flavor phrasing for town}.
Flavor text: This ship is your home (or some other flavor tying to Mal/Serenity). In an effort to protect them (or some other phrasing as appropriate), {description of what your role does}

cerberus_v6.66 [10:56 AM]
Surfe

drixx [10:56 AM]
Role text: {Your Role} - {Explicitly what your role does}
Win Condition

cerberus_v6.66 [10:56 AM]
*nods*

drixx [10:57 AM]
In order for Flicker to actually be town, A50 must have made a role PM that completely dumps any flavor description of their role AND the flavor MOTIVATION for their role.
That just seems ... wildly unlikely
We were given a flavor reasoning for our role
Also ... if we are Mr. Universe, then we should believe that _all town_ got the "This ship is your home and the crew is your family" bit because we aren't actually on the ship crew
If we're not Mr. Universe, we literally are Book. That's the only character who was always watching and showed up repeatedly at unexpected moments when critical things were happening
Most notably when Simon was confronted by Porkens' character and when the bounty hunter was on the ship.
And my brain says at least one other time he was aware of something going on when others weren't
You know what scum makes sense for being unable to actually vote/kill someone (outside of M/Lylo)?
Niska ... Niska never got his own hands dirty. He simply watched others carry out his will.
I'm leaning towards believing we might want to clean up this reasoning and poke it an if we are comfortable with it, we should role claim, explain the parts of the role PM and that we have specific flavor to explain our motivation and why we have our role and point out all the implications
like ... Modified motion detector is a super weak investigative roll
the actual odds we get a scum by staying silent and hoping we live seem to be considerably low

cerberus_v6.66 [11:03 AM]
Alright
Again
watch
push flickers defenders
At L-2 call for a halt to things

drixx [11:03 AM]
maybe sooner

cerberus_v6.66 [11:03 AM]
if it's on not!flicker
yeah
idk
hard to gauge with this group

drixx [11:03 AM]
like ... here's the ideal way it plays out

cerberus_v6.66 [11:03 AM]
Toog's lolhammer makes more sense
If they believed that a lightning rod usage on N1 confirmed them as town
I don't think it DOES
but people seem inclined to assume so

drixx [11:04 AM]
we're able to get one or two people that we think maybe are scum if flicker is scum
we push them about their ancillary flavor
if they copy Flicker (because if we're good at our job we've found scum), then we drop this on the game
we know basically immediately
one of two things happens:
1.) a bunch of people check in and go "Yeah ... I have that bit of motivation for my role flavor too!"
at which point the ones claiming they don't are toast
OR
2.) Everyone goes "WTF you all smoking RR?"

cerberus_v6.66 [11:05 AM]
Sure
and then we're like well
guess the mod just fucked up
little risk
given the exact point i was pushing flicker over yesterday

drixx [11:06 AM]
Plus it gives us the advantage of pointing out why our ancillary flavor makes it way more likely we're Book than Flicker would be

cerberus_v6.66 [11:06 AM]
doesn't seem like a scum move

drixx [11:06 AM]
Which then means Flicker has to be reevaluated

cerberus_v6.66 [11:06 AM]
yeah

drixx [11:06 AM]
And when you evaluated villains like ... Niska jumped to mind the moment I asked which villain would not be able to vote/hammer

cerberus_v6.66 [11:07 AM]
Yeah

drixx [11:08 AM]
Also we don't pay for this slack so we need to be careful to snag our chat before it goes too far back
I don't know if you did a dump recently because I forgot to check

cerberus_v6.66 [11:12 AM]
I did


cerberus_v6.66 [11:32 AM]
So
the important thing is do you know who is townreading flicker?


drixx [11:40 AM]
town reading or fence sitting
or subtly defending or trying to divert

cerberus_v6.66 [11:41 AM]
Again, do you know who those people are?
I can reread
but nobody immediately comes ot mind
and I dont want to reread


drixx [11:41 AM]
You're missing session so I know you're busy

cerberus_v6.66 [11:41 AM]
jingles current stuff
is defensive
but I"m more interested in the interplay around the flicker wagon yesterday

drixx [11:41 AM]
I'm going to head to the shop now and was gonna do some miniatures painting but I can re-read and take notes

cerberus_v6.66 [11:42 AM]
Just the bit where flicker was being wagoned maybe
sec
I'll tell you the post range

drixx [11:42 AM]
I also have like 8 hours free in the morning tomorrow which I was going to use to get some re-reading done in the context of this info

cerberus_v6.66 [11:44 AM]
1035 they got their second vote, nico was up to 5 while they stayed at 2 until 1316, then flicker peaked at 1552
so sometime between 1316 and 1552
is the range where I guess people were talking about them actively
I'll do waht I can to read
but yeah, decently busy here

cerberus_v6.66 [12:12 PM]
what's the nicorobin mechanically sure they're scum thing?
you got out there before eod yesterday/
you didn't mention any such strong read to me.

drixx [12:20 PM]
Ongoing games rule prevents me from explaining it for the moment. I don't expect that will be a problem much longer but I'm not gonna dump that info until it's okay for me to do so
but I did want you to know I'm very sure
so we can watch
headed out ... will be on phone for next several hours

cerberus_v6.66 [12:25 PM]
Got it

cerberus_v6.66 [3:23 PM]
people are missing you

Did you have the chance to look at the game/flicker wagon?

drixx [3:26 PM]
I've been rushing madly to get stuff done before tomorrow
I'm taking dad in for his surgery. He has to be there at 5am
at that point I've got hours of waiting with my phone
I'm behind some pages

cerberus_v6.66 [3:27 PM]
got it

drixx [11:20 AM]
So ... flavor gaming
like ... if there really is only the people on Serenity as town
then it means all of us have that bit of extra flavor
and if that's true, we break the game if we drop that into the game
I don't particularly want to win so bad that I want to ruin a mod's work to get the win
but like ... if that is the case, Flicker is scum

cerberus_v6.66 [11:23 AM]
Fair
well
We don't break the game
we DO get some conftowns out of it
though to be fair
I actually think we no longer get conftowns out of it
because you advised people to look at our interactions with flicker

drixx [11:24 AM]
No town has flipped
We never revealed yet what our PM says

cerberus_v6.66 [11:24 AM]
yes
but the only notable thing about our interations with flicker was my push for their flavor
and a very specific part of their role pm

drixx [11:24 AM]
That doesn't mean scum can fake it though

cerberus_v6.66 [11:24 AM]
It's pretty obvious

drixx [11:24 AM]
That's fine

cerberus_v6.66 [11:25 AM]
I just don't hink we can get conftowns out of it
or confscums
really
other than from posts prior to your last one

drixx [11:25 AM]
Two steps:
1.) We ask who can tell us why Flicker isn't town and why, but ask them not to share the exact details of the why.
We see who bites
See where this is going?

cerberus_v6.66 [11:30 AM]
Sure
just

drixx [11:31 AM]
trying to think of the best way to _test_ the people who bite

cerberus_v6.66 [11:31 AM]
yeah
I dislike the test

drixx [11:31 AM]
the first idea doesn't work

cerberus_v6.66 [11:31 AM]
and biting
rather than just watching the game
because I don't trust the results after we show any bit of our hand
it's like we're playing draw
and just showed that we have a face card

drixx [11:31 AM]
I mean ... it's okay just to get flicker out of it

cerberus_v6.66 [11:31 AM]
yeah

drixx [11:32 AM]
in a way I would feel better anyway because of above expressed concern

cerberus_v6.66 [11:32 AM]
sure

drixx [11:32 AM]
but there's probably a way to get more if we want to
the most obvious being to ask people to post a spoiler box answer about what they have that flicker doesn't at a precise time with a timer and only people who do it within a small X seconds benefit from doing so
the spoiler box because it's a bitch to do correctly and you have to preview it so everyone can preview it ahead of the timer
and even a quote and removing tags and adjusting the answer a bit takes at least 10-15 seconds
I mean ... that would be going to a LOT of trouble
but anyone who did it would basically conftown, probably to a high enough degree of certainty that they would get killed off
but the problem is ... I feel like the above concern is violated by that, AND I'm pretty sure the people who would actually do it are already easy town reads

cerberus_v6.66 [11:35 AM]
fair
*sigh*

drixx [11:35 AM]
I'm also not sure we want to point out to scum whom they need to kill

cerberus_v6.66 [11:35 AM]
You know
I don't want EJ to be Simon
but there's also some more evidence of that
the ascetic

drixx [11:36 AM]
but that's literally the only thing EJ can be if telling the truth
yep
I held that back though

cerberus_v6.66 [11:36 AM]
lines up nicely with the episode where a bunch of them get captured or something

drixx [11:36 AM]
I want to see responses

cerberus_v6.66 [11:36 AM]
and he's basically immune because he's a doctor
if I'm recalling correctrly
(I might not be!)
they eventually have to get saved
but like

drixx [11:36 AM]
There are flavor reasons to believe Simon could be a 3p doctor/bp/ascetic
Although I think if EJ really is 3p and not just claiming that as a 3rd/4th level play, she probably has a harsh downside
it's probably more likely that EJ is town
and claimed what she did for reasons

cerberus_v6.66 [11:38 AM]
Yeah
pretty good play
the arguments to be made for it as a strong scum play

drixx [11:38 AM]
jay is good enough to make that play

cerberus_v6.66 [11:38 AM]
are even better as a strong town play

drixx [11:38 AM]
gutsy play for sure

cerberus_v6.66 [11:38 AM]
I still think they should be shot

drixx [11:38 AM]
scum want to keep a survivor around

cerberus_v6.66 [11:38 AM]
syi
*fyi*
:p

drixx [11:39 AM]
because in LYLO a survivor will just vote and get their win

cerberus_v6.66 [11:39 AM]
yeah
that's also why I had to know about Flickers claimed priest modifier
imagine if there was a survivor
and a town aligned priest modifier slot
jsut makes it that much easier to endgame

drixx [11:40 AM]
Oh ... in case it wasn't obvious. I threw the "I'm basically certain Elsa is scum" line out for reactions.
I'm actually about 50/50 convinced it's genius town or genius scum/3p play
and I can't decide which
like... scum don't want to shoot EJ right now
or maybe ever
and town won't be in a hurry to lynch
and there's no sound reasoning that takes us in any particular direction

cerberus_v6.66 [11:41 AM]
yeah

drixx [11:42 AM]
As for Flicker ... I think we discussed this already but:

cerberus_v6.66 [11:42 AM]
Nico scum, Flicker scum, elsa maybe scum, maybe town, maybe 3p
Toog probtown

drixx [11:42 AM]
Flicker is probably Niska. Outside chance the operative. The operative did like to stun people and let them fall on a sword

cerberus_v6.66 [11:42 AM]
yeah
Operative could be a 3p Bounty Hunter(with River as target) RB with the priest modifier
odd/even night kills vs RB's
or something

drixx [11:48 AM]
Also ... Toog lightning rodded
we know there are at least 3 kills because of the overkill mechanic
3 docs?

cerberus_v6.66 [11:48 AM]
sure

drixx [11:48 AM]
makes some sense if HoB has a "doc", and alliance has a "doc"

cerberus_v6.66 [11:48 AM]
well no
could be 2 kills

drixx [11:49 AM]
reavers wouldn't have a doc

cerberus_v6.66 [11:49 AM]
lynch+2 kills
would justify the mechanic
but it's 3
because except for the town
factions won't shoot themsevles
*themselves*

drixx [11:49 AM]
but if the town is really only 9 of a starting 17 then the rule could exist solely for town's sake

cerberus_v6.66 [11:50 AM]
yeah

drixx [11:50 AM]
but ... 3 kills would heavily imply EJ is being honest at least about being a doc
and probably isn't the alliance doc or HoB doc

cerberus_v6.66 [11:50 AM]
why is that?

drixx [11:50 AM]
if there's 3 kills, then Toog had 3 docs on him last night
HoB, Alliance and ???

cerberus_v6.66 [11:50 AM]
no
EJ's doc stops all kills
the other docs could do the same
Ej's wasn't redirected, but yeah

drixx [11:51 AM]
That's super non normal

cerberus_v6.66 [11:51 AM]
mhm

drixx [11:51 AM]
like ... super super non normal

cerberus_v6.66 [11:51 AM]
So is a lightning rod counting as a targeted action
so it's a mass self redirector

drixx [11:51 AM]
1 doc counters 1 shot is the norm

cerberus_v6.66 [11:51 AM]
NOT a lightning rod

drixx [11:51 AM]
Lightning rod just draws all actions to it ... doesn't target a player

cerberus_v6.66 [11:51 AM]
yeah
but that's not how A50 rules it
he specifically said that.
Are you still behind?


drixx [11:52 AM]
I read on the phone so I assume I scrolled past that
or I started on the wrong page number on the phone

cerberus_v6.66 [11:57 AM]
ah
viewtopic.php?p=10494383#p10494383
that's the post

drixx [11:58 AM]
Also need to ask A50 a question
did Dobson count as HoB while a traitor?
If so, EJ could be HoB doc
and Toog could be HoB aligned
assume HoB are on an alliance cruiser and can pull everyone in kinda fits the idea of lightning rod
just spitballing atm

cerberus_v6.66 [12:04 PM]
Yeah
that does indeed have as much value as spit
;P
<3
Really though, bit of a stretch.
But sure
fuck it


cerberus_v6.66 [12:44 PM]
Jingle just claimed mason

cerberus_v6.66 [3:13 PM]
Jingle also thought I scumslipped because I asked for timestamps from chickadee for her flavor cop action submissions and results
but didn't notice that the time she said she submitted her action was hours after teh lynch happened(because she confused AM and PM(or so she says)
I view that as further evidence that he's actually
town
and thus actually a mason
the concern is of course that he's scum fake claiming mason like we did in Protomen
^^

drixx [11:22 PM]
We weren’t scum at n protomen
Because town won with us

cerberus_v6.66 [11:02 AM]
Yeah yeah
but you know what I mean

[Almost50]

Wow! It is sooooooooo entertaining to watch you two delve in so deep into flavour spec and PM details and stuff. REALLY entertaining.

[Drixx]

Have you never read one of our game PTs before? We literally write a book for any game in which we survive a significant amount of time.

[Drixx]

Also ... you can't actually apply rational reasoning (at least not how I have learned/am learning it) without accounting for every shred of info you have.