MC880: A Normal Game - Mod PT

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MC880: A Normal Game - Mod PT

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:21 pm

Post by Ircher »

Micro 880: A Normal Game - Mod PT


External Links:

1. Game Thread
2. Mod PT
3. Dead/Spectator PT
4. Mafia PT
5. Review Thread

Internal Links:

: Shuffled player list.
: Shuffled role list.
: Final role assignments.
: Vanilla Townie role pm.
: Town Loud Mailman role pm.
: Town Traffic Analyst role pm.
: Mafia Roleblocker role pm.
: Town 2-Shot Friendly Neighbor role pm.
: Mafia Goon role pm.

Access List:

1. Ircher (Moderator; PT Mod)
2. Skygazer (Backup Moderator)
3. Micc (List Moderator)
4. Everyone else!
Last edited by Ircher on Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:37 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:22 pm

Post by Ircher »

Shuffled Player Order:

1: SweetNSassy
2: Sleepless Assassin
3: skitter30
4: callforjudgement
5: Saudade
6: TemporalLich
7: singletonking
8: Dunnstral
9: Firebringer
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:22 pm

Post by Ircher »

Shuffled Role List:

1: Town Loud Mailman
2: Town Vanilla
3: Town Vanilla
4: Town Vanilla
5: Town Vanilla
6: Town Traffic Analyst
7: Mafia Roleblocker
8: Town 2-Shot Friendly Neighbor
9: Mafia Goon
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:23 pm

Post by Ircher »

Final Role Assignments:

1:
SweetNSassy
Kop - Town Loud Mailman
2: Sleepless Assassin - Town Vanilla
3: skitter30 - Town Vanilla
4: callforjudgement - Town Vanilla
5:
Saudade
OkaPoka - Town Vanilla
6: TemporalLich - Town Traffic Analyst
7:
singletonking
the worst
Oversoul - Mafia Roleblocker
8: Dunnstral - Town 2-Shot Friendly Neighbor
9: Firebringer - Mafia Goon
Last edited by Ircher on Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:23 pm

Post by Ircher »

Welcome to Micro 880: A Normal Game!

Moderator: IrcherBackup Moderator: Skygazer

Reviewed by: schadd_


Spoiler: Player List
1. singletonking
2. callforjudgement
3. Saudade
4. Dunnstral
5. SweetNSassy
6. Sleepless Assassin
7. skitter30
8. Firebringer
9. TemporalLich
Key: + => Confirmed, * => Prod, ^ => Prod Dodge,
Replaced

Spoiler: Living Players (9)
1. singletonking
2. callforjudgement
3. Saudade
4. Dunnstral
5. SweetNSassy
6. Sleepless Assassin
7. skitter30
8. Firebringer
9. TemporalLich

Spoiler: Dead Players (0)
Nobody has died yet!


Spoiler: VC History
Dawn (Pre-game)

Spoiler: Event History
No events.

Spoiler: Mod Links
1.
2. Mod PT
Last edited by Ircher on Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:24 pm

Post by Ircher »

Rules

Spoiler: General Rules
Respect

1. Follow the golden rule:
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

1a.
Personal attacks and derogatory language directed towards others or oneself will not be tolerated.

1b.
Other forms of toxic and/or disrespectful behavior that promote an unpleasant environment will also be dealt with as needed.

1c.
You are to assume good faith of all players that request replacement.
It is the moderator's job, not the players' job, to determine whether or not a replacement request is tactical in nature. It is also outright rude and disrespectful, and it brings an outside influence into the game.
1d.
Avoid bringing up real-life events in the game thread. If a player brings up a real-life event in the game thread, do not attempt to guess the player's motives for doing so.
The best thing to do is to keep real life out of this game, but if something major does happen and it affects your ability to play then others should accept it as-is rather than engage in the unethical practice of assigning ulterior motives to it.
2.
Avoid using the plain spoiler (blackout) tag. Use spoiler= instead.
In other words,
this is wrong
. This rule exists because the content hidden within a blackout tag is not easily accessed on mobile devices and many players (including the moderator) access and play mafia on mobile devices.
3.
Animated GIFs, videos, and posts containing multiple large images should generally be spoilered using the spoiler= tag.
This rule exists primarily for those people with slower internet connections (the page loads faster this way). It also tends to reduce vertical length and be more pleasing on the eye, especiallly on mobile devices like phones.
4.
Constant and persistent off-topic posting will not be tolerated.
Mafia is a social game, so it is okay to occassionally talk about things that are not directly relevent to the game at hand. That said, excessive off-topic posting results in increased filler and makes it hard for other players to find game-relevant content.
5.
Cryptography and other forms of codes are generally not allowed.
Breadcrumbs are generally okay.
5a.
All text should be
at least this big (size 75).

5b.
Do not attempt to use BBCode to hide messages.

6.
Play the game.
This rule goes along with Respect #4; why did you sign-up for a game (or replace into a game) if you didn't actually plan on playing the game? By not playing the game, you are ruining everyone else's experience which is a no-go.
6a.
The use of the dice tag and other forms of provable randomness in the game-thread (or in private threads related to the game) is prohibited.

7.
There is nothing inherently wrong with replacing out of a game.
If you do not have the time to properly play the game, please do everyone a favor and request replacement; in most cases, you are doing more harm to the game by staying in the game than you would by replacing out.
7a. That said, if the game thread is pretty long (>50 pages), please think twice before replacing out. Another option besides replacing out of a game is to temporarily declare V/LA.

Honour

1.
Discussion of ongoing games at any time, through any means, and regardless of content, is prohibited as per site rules.
See below for more information on this very important rule.
1a.
You may communicate with the moderator and/or the backup/co-moderators at any times about
this
game for whatever reason.

1b.
Any information that is both easily accessible and publicly available (stuff in opening posts, stuff that can be found by clicking on a player's profile, et cetera) may be referenced in game
provided that
said information is not accompanied by a statement of substance.
For instance, the number of pages in a game, the current phase of a game, the number of players alive/dead/total in a game, the number of games a player is currently in, et cetera are all valid things that can be referenced in game.
Invalid things include making vague statements that reference ongoing games in a roundabout manner and accompanying public information with statements of substances.

1c.
Do not quote any post or statement made in this game (regardless of content) in your signature while this game is ongoing.
Players do occassionally reference stuff written in signatures, so it is important to keep any information that may possibly give away the alignment of a player in this game (or other games) out of signatures.
1d.
If you make an alt-slip (or hydra slip), you
must
quote it as soon as possible with your main account.
Failure to do so within a reasonable time frame will result in the moderator considering the slip as a discussion of ongoing games and will take the necessary actions.
1e.
You are allowed one contentless "Bah!" post after you die.
Further posts and/or any posts with content after you die are also considered breaches of the ongoing games discussion rule.
1f.
If your role specifically allows you to communicate about this game outside the game-thread, then you may do so in the way dictated by your role.

2.
Play to win.
This is not an option; this is a requirement.
2a.
You
must
read your role pm,
no exceptions
.
I will force-replace any users that refuse to confirm their role in the way indicated in their role pm (or fail to do so within a reasonable time frame after a direct and private reminder is sent to them).
Do not claim in the thread to have either a) not read your role pm or b) not received a role pm.
The former is disallowed as per the first part of this rule. The latter (if true) should be sent as a private message to the moderator.
2b.
You may claim to be scum by yourself and/or with other players
(whether false or true)
provided that
it is clear (to the moderator) that you are not attempting to game-throw.
2c.
Scum can night-kill their own teammates
provided that
there is clear evidence (to the moderator) that such a move isn't game-throwing or heavily detrimental to the team's win condition.
2d.
Players may self-vote at any time and for any reason
provided that
it is not a hammer.
2e. Except in certain exceptional circumstances,
town players should
never
self-hammer.
A similar rule applies to scum-aligned players.
3.
Trust tells and other forms of outside influences are prohibited.

3a.
Do not replace out in such a manner as to confirm your alignment.

3b.
Do not threaten to replace out of the game. Do not demand that other players replace out of the game.
All replacement-related communication should be conducted privately by communicating with the moderator.
3c.
The only things requiring moderator response that should be posted in-thread are:
1) votecount-related questions and corrections 2) V/LAs 3) formatting fixing requests, and 4) questions about public mechanics and/or the roles/abilities of
flipped players
.
All other questions
(including speculative questions)
should be sent by pm.

3d.
Do not discuss any actions taken by the moderator in the game until post-game.

4.
The direct quoting and/or copy-pasting of private communication
(except as indicated below)
is prohibited.

4a.
The following things from your role pm may be copied verbatim
: your alignment, your flip role (generally second line), and your effective role (if it differs from your flip role).
Quoting any of the preceding items is strictly prohibited.

4b.
Investigatives
and other power roles that receive results may
directly copy
(again, not quote) the
unflavored
result(s)
they receive (generally in bold).[/b]
4c.
Masons and mafia
(and other "neighborhoods" that are known to contain only a single alignment by all the members of said neighborhood)
may freely copy-paste and/or quote moderator communication
(unless otherwise specified) into the corresponding private thread.
They may also submit night actions as a collective there as well (by bolding).

4d.
Other forms of moderator communication should neither be directly copied nor quoted in the game-thread or anywhere else in this game.

4e.
Timestamps, read statuses, and/or links to any ongoing game
(except this game's main thread),
private topics of ongoing games
, or
ongoing off-site games are prohibited
and should never be referenced in the game's main thread.
4f.
You may paraphrase anything not otherwise covered by these rules (unless otherwise specified); however, please be careful.
Also, regardless of whether something is a direct quote or not,
surrounding something in quotation marks (") is not acceptable.
I will automatically assume that anything that came from another thread that is surrounded in quotation marks is in fact a direct copy-paste and will take action as necessary.
5.
Do not attempt to impersonate the game moderator, backup/co-moderators, and/or site staff in any fashion.

5a.
Purple
is my color in the game-thread, and
yellow
is my color in private threads.
You may use either color as you please provided that it is clear you are not trying to impersonate me by doing so.

5b.
User-provided votecounts should be explicitly marked as "Unofficial" and should avoid being formatted exactly like an official votecount.

6.
Do not edit or delete your posts.
Also, the moderator will generally not delete posts.
6a. Any edits by the game moderator will be done in my color and clearly marked as such like this: "
This is an example. ~Ircher
"


Miscellaneous

1. Follow the spirit of the rules.
1a.
Do not attempt to find loopholes in the ruleset.

1b.
While the moderator will generally assume good-faith, action can be taken against inadvertent rule breaks if deemed necessary.

2.
All PTs will be released within 24 hours of the game's conclusion.
(The Moderator PT may take a while longer.) Players in any thread except the Dead PT may request redactions at any time
before
I release the PT. The dead thread is released immediately on the conclusion of the game.
3. A player is allowed to replace back into their slot if the slot has to be replaced multiple times provided that 1) the player was not force-replaced due to inactivity or a rule violation and 2) the player did not join the dead/spectator thread or otherwise receive information that would compromise the game.
4.
The moderator reserves the right to update this ruleset as necessary.
New items will be underlined
, and
deleted items will be striked through.
(Note: The markup on this line is an example.)


TL;DR Version
  1. Follow the golden rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
  2. Follow all site rules especially the ones against discussing ongoing games and threatening/demanding to replace out.
  3. Do not use the plain spoiler (blackout tag) by itself; use the spoiler= tag instead or combine it with colored text.
  4. Be mindful of other users. In particular, try to spoiler animated GIFs, videos, and posts with multiple images.
  5. Play to win the game and do not use provable randomness.
  6. Be sure to read your role pm. Do not claim to have done otherwise; if you did not receive a role pm, please PM the moderator.
  7. Follow the spirit of the rules, not the letter.
  8. The moderator reserves the right to update this ruleset as necessary.
  9. The TL;DR version is not (and cannot) be all-inclusive. Please take the time to familiarize yourself with the entire ruleset when you get the chance; things that are in bold are particularly important.
Setup-Specific Rules

Spoiler: Voting, Lynching, and Twilight Rules
Voting, Lynching, and Twilight Rules
  1. To vote, use
    Vote: Player
    or VOTE: Player. The latter is highly preferred as the former was used before the introduction of vote tags (and ought to be deprecated.)
  2. To unvote, use
    Unvote: Player
    or UNVOTE: Player. The latter is again preferred as the former was used before the introduction of vote tags.
  3. You do not have to unvote to change votes.
    Furthermore, I will only track the last *valid* vote in your post.

  4. Player abbreviations are allowed provided the moderator can reasonably determine whom the player is referring to.
  5. Invalid or ambiguous votes will not be counted, though the moderator will note such instances.
  6. Hammer occurs when half of all living players (rounded down) plus one cast a vote against the same player (or No Lynch). All votes after a hammer will not be counted, and the hammered player is the one who will flip. The time following a hammer is Twilight, and all players may continue talking.
  7. No lynch will occur if deadline is reached without a hammer.
  8. Players should cease talking as soon as twilight ends.
    Twilight exists mainly for the moderator, not the players. Do not rely too heavily upon it.


Activity and Deadline Rules

1.
Day 1 lasts 14 days. Day 2 lasts 10 days. All other days last 7 days. Nights last 48 hours.

2.
Day extensions are rare and are evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

2a. A minimum of 24 hours will be alloted to any player that replaces in. (More time may be granted if the thread is long.)
2b. Extensions for holidays (especially American holidays) will generally be accepted and/or announced in advance.
2c. Extensions for site down-time will be made as appropriate.
2d.
Other extension requests are likely to be rejected.

3.
Nights may be extended if a replacement is needed.
There will be a minimum of 24 hours between the time a replacement is found and when night actions are due.
4. You will be
prodded after 36 hours
of inactivity except on weekends (
Saturday, Sunday, and Monday
) where you will be
prodded after 60 hours
of inactivity.
4a. Unless the thread is locked,
all prods must be responded to by posting in-thread.
All prods should be responded to within 36 hours of when the prod was issued.

5.
You can prod dodge, but 2 prod dodges are equivalent to a single prod.
If you are prodded again from prod-dodging, you may not prod dodge. While a subjective rule, prod dodges are objectively defined as posts that consist of little or no content related to the game with the sole purpose of avoiding prodding. Minimum content is not defined here as to mitigate abuse, but do realize that this rule is applied as objectively as possible.
6.
V/LAs should generally be announced in-thread, not by pm. You should also set V/LA in the User CP to make sure I do not forget.

7. If you have
regular weekend V/LA
, it is
your reponsibility
to either inform me at the end of
each week
or to remember to set V/LA status.
8.
V/LA players must post at least once every 96 hours.
Excessively long V/LAs (
14 days or longer
) may have stricter requirements imposed on them.
9. This game may have a brief, initial pre-game phase. The moderator will track votes for reference purposes, but all votes will be reset at the start of Day 1.
You are expected to post during this phase.
Pre-game will end after
48 hours
.
10. Your activity will be closely monitored.
I reserve the right to warn and replace players whom I believe are exploiting loopholes in the activity rules.

11.
To be clear, you are expected to post more than the bare minimum that is dictated by the prodding rules.


Setup Details

1. All private threads possess day talk.
2. Unless otherwise specified, mafia may
not
perform a kill and use an active ability at the same time.
3. This game was reviewed and approved for normalcy and balance as governed by the normal guidelines.
The reviewer was schadd_.

4. Sample role pm:
Spoiler: Vanilla Townie Role PM
Welcome to Micro {X}: A Normal Game.
You are a
Vanilla Townie
!

You possess no special abilities, but you possess both a voice and a vote. Use them well!

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated, and at least one townie is alive!
Please confirm both by PM and in-thread.
Last edited by Ircher on Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:25 pm

Post by Ircher »

Welcome to Micro 880: A Normal Game.
You are a
Vanilla Townie
!

You possess no special abilities, but you possess both a voice and a vote. Use them well!

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated, and at least one townie is alive!
Please confirm both by PM and in-thread.
Last edited by Ircher on Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:25 pm

Post by Ircher »

Welcome, SweetNSassy, to Micro 880: A Normal Game.
You are a
Town Loud Mailman
!

Each night, you may attempt to send a message to another player. If your action succeeds, your target will receive your message and learn that you targeted them that night. (Note that the two messages (your message and the loud notification) will be sent as separate pms.)

Sample MessageYou have received some anonymous mail! The contents are as follows:
{Your Message Goes Here}.

Loud Notification{Player} visited you last night.


You win when all threats to the town are eliminated, and at least one townie is alive!
Please confirm both by PM and in-thread.
Last edited by Ircher on Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:25 pm

Post by Ircher »

Welcome, TemporalLich, to Micro 880: A Normal Game.
You are a
Town Traffic Analyst
!

Each night, you may investigate a player to learn if they can communicate privately with another player. (Please note that if there is only one player left in a private thread, you will get a negative result.)
Can Communicate{Player} can communicate privately.

Cannot Communicate{Player} cannot communicate privately.

No ResultNo Result.


You win when all threats to the town are eliminated, and at least one townie is alive!
Please confirm both by PM and in-thread.
Last edited by Ircher on Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:25 pm

Post by Ircher »

Welcome, singletonking, to Micro 880: A Normal Game.
You are a
Mafia Roleblocker
!

Each night, you may attempt to prevent a player from acting.

As a member of the mafia, you may also select a person to kill; however, you cannot roleblock and kill at the same time.
You may talk freely with your fellow mafioso in a private thread. The link will be sent in a separate pm. Note that by default, the two of you do possess daytalk.

You win when the mafia equal or outnumber the town, or nothing can prevent this from happening.
Please confirm both by PM and in-thread.
Last edited by Ircher on Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:25 pm

Post by Ircher »

Welcome, Dunnstral, to Micro 880: A Normal Game.
You are a
Town 2-Shot Friendly Neighbor
!

Twice per game, you may attempt to notify a player that you are aligned with the town.
Sample Notification{Player} is confirmed to be aligned with the town.


You win when all threats to the town are eliminated, and at least one townie is alive!
Please confirm both by PM and in-thread.
Last edited by Ircher on Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:26 pm

Post by Ircher »

Welcome, Firebringer, to Micro 880: A Normal Game.
You are a
Mafia Goon
.

You possess no special abilities other than your vote and your voice.

As a member of the mafia, you may also select a person to kill; however, you cannot act and kill at the same time.
You may talk freely with your fellow mafioso in a private thread. The link will be sent in a separate pm. Note that by default, the two of you do possess daytalk.

You win when the mafia equal or outnumber the town, or nothing can prevent this from happening.
Please confirm both by PM and in-thread.
Last edited by Ircher on Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:27 pm

Post by Ircher »

Now I just have to wait for Micc to confirm the player list...
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:39 pm

Post by Skygazer »

hi ircher!
i have the most queues
replacement queue | upick queue
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:44 pm

Post by Ircher »

Hey!

What are your thoughts on the player list?
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:06 pm

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1: SweetNSassy - Town Loud Mailman - don't know them
2: Sleepless Assassin - Town Vanilla - don't know them
3: skitter30 - Town Vanilla - skitter is great !!!
4: callforjudgement - Town Vanilla - don't remember that much about their play? but seems cool
5: Saudade - Town Vanilla - loud and proud, can catch scum well but will be (some people might say hilariously) obnoxious while doing so
6: TemporalLich - Town Traffic Analyst - haven't had that many experiences w this person
7: singletonking - Mafia Roleblocker - well they're gone anyways but they're cool
8: Dunnstral - Town 2-Shot Friendly Neighbor - good player, i always accidentally SR his tone
9: Firebringer - Mafia Goon - interest move claiming scum in your first post !!
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:08 pm

Post by Skygazer »

In post 4, Firebringer wrote:i got a scum role pm.

ask me anything.
In post 9, Ircher wrote:
Seeking a replacement for singletonking.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:52 am

Post by Ircher »

Hopefully the worst doesn't get lynched day 1.
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:56 pm

Post by Ircher »

I'm hoping this game is gonna be exciting.

Like you, I'm unfamiliar with SweetNSassy and with Sleepless Assassin, but new blood is always nice.
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:44 am

Post by Ircher »

Considering this is a normal game and hydras are banned from normal games, SweetNSassy shouldn't be a hydra.
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:04 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 104, OkaPoka wrote:someone do something to spice this game up
(I agree.)

I do wonder if having a pregame phase where people can post increases general apathy. I don't think I've ever modded a game that was like super active early in the game.
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:31 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 843, callforjudgement wrote:Ugh, I can't get to sleep, decide to check Mafiascum as something to do, and there's somehow another five pages in three hours in the middle of the night? I've read them but I'm not sure if I'm in the right mental state to comprehend them.

Something that's bothering me: most of the evidence OkaPoka is relying on for his current reasoning behind the TemporalLich scumread comes fairly early in the thread (with # apparently the latest relevant post; # was also mentioned but doesn't seem to contain any differing reads from #), yet the reason that OkaPoka is currently relying on comes at #/#. OkaPoka doesn't seem to have seen that particular read reasoning as recently as #…#.




In other news, as I can't sleep, I may as well make my own analysis of TemporalLich's read progression (this will be largely focused on OkaPoka both because it's a slot I've been focused on and because it was a slot TemporalLich was focused on):

Ignoring RVS wagons, TemporalLich's second real vote is #, explained in #. Oka's posts between # (where Lich had a "meh" read on TemporalLich) and # are #/# (with 164 probably being the relevant post). It seems like TemporalLich and OkaPoka had gradually started to establish a scumread on each other in the aftermath of #, TemporalLich's
first
real vote. AFAICT, OkaPoka thought that # was reasonable as an RVS vote, but when (#) TemporalLich stated that it was a genuine read, OkaPoka decided that that couldn't possibly be a genuine statement (#) and started scumreading TemporalLich for it. TemporalLich saw this scumread (by OkaPoka on TemporalLich) as so ridiculous that it couldn't be coming from town (and many of the more analytical players agreed), which is pretty clear from # … #. So I don't see anything unexpected or scummy about TemporalLich's read progression there, apart from the delay before the switch to OkaPoka (maybe he simply hadn't read through the thread or thought about it or whatever, plenty of other people have also been doing that this game, including both OkaPoka and me).

So by #, TemporalLich realises that there's not much purpose to continuing to vote for OkaPoka because the wagon is unlikely to go through immediately.
I think this is the #1 biggest playstyle difference between TemporalLich and OkaPoka, and if this is TvT, it explains where the mutual scumreads are coming from.
TemporalLich has decided that his current main wagon isn't going anywhere (having made a few attempts to push it but getting no new material), and decided that he can get better reads by pushing elsewhere. This is something that most experienced townies do (and most experienced scum are thus forced to fake) because it's one of the only ways to advance a deadlocked gamestate, and also means you can get a better evaluation of the gamestate more generally and maybe shake yourself out of a tunnel if you're wrong. Based on OkaPoka's behaviour, Oka apparently completely rejects this style of play, continuing to tunnel hard (and ineffectively) on a dying wagon even when I tried to prompt him to do otherwise. So OkaPoka is seeing TemporalLich as having artificial reads for wanting to push players other than his previous largest scumread, and I'm seeing OkaPoka as being intentionally useless for
not
doing that. So far, there's nothing scummy or artificial about TemporalLich's play, and it's obvious to me (based on trying to run through in my mind how other players are thinking given their general playstyles) that TemporalLich will move to the worst or Firebringer (or possibly Dunnstral, but that's less likely). TemporalLich settles on Firebringer (#), with the implication that it's for having terrible reads. The implication of # is that Lich
still thinks
OkaPoka is scum, but wants to see if a wagon can be built elsewhere (reading between the lines, part of the Firebringer scumread is that TemporalLich apparently thinks that no sane townie could have a townread on OkaPoka, and that's an opinion that's both incorrect and entirely believable/plausible).

What I pick up from #…# is that TemporalLich is angry. Probably if he sat back to think about the situation, Firebringer wouldn't actually have been his top scumread at that point, but Firebringer's playstyle (which is pretty different from, say, mine or TemporalLich's) is really a long way from how TemporalLich apparently thinks that town should play. Lich is asking for reasons, Fire is refusing to give them, Lich is annoyed and (for the moment, at least) sure in his vote on Fire who is from Lich's point of view being intentionally intransigent and anti-town. Probably this is subconscious, and Lich would think that he's simply thinking through the game logically (and say so if you asked him at the time), but right now # is at the forefront of Lich's mind (based on post timing, Lich has likely only just read it as part of a catchup), and Lich in the moment doesn't believe that anyone could possibly be scummier than Firebringer. He's been asked for a reads list, so when he makes it, Firebringer's in the top spot. (Actually, the main thing that concerns me about the reads list in question is that the worst is probably too high – I'd expect him to be null at best from Lich's point of view – but small issues like that really aren't enough to scumread someone over.)

By #, just two posts later but with an intervening reread/re-evaluation, TemporalLich has calmed down somewhat and realised that the Firebringer scumread probably isn't as strong as he emotionally thought it was, but is "still leaving my vote on firebringer because honestly refusing to explain stuff is not good for the town." At this point, OkaPoka is probably TemporalLich's top scumread, but really that's not the sort of thing you want to admit in-thread regardless of alignment when you're trying to pressure someone else, and the reason for not moving the vote is entirely plausible coming from a player like TemporalLich. As a result, the vote change in # really isn't a surprise; OkaPoka has been TemporalLich's top scumread for a long time, the wagon's looking viable again, his scumread on Firebringer is dying down somewhat, why wouldn't he change back? The only real surprise there is that the change didn't happen earlier.

Somewhat later, OkaPoka posts # complaining about Lich's readshifts. Lich sees the post, thinks "yes, that's a good summary of why I shifted (apart from missing why I'd scumread Firebringer), why on earth do you have that as a reason to scumread!". Then things descend into a bit of a nitpicking argument, especially as Lich can probably no longer remember the reasoning behind his reads. It wouldn't surprise me if some of them were post-rationalized gut reads; that's something I end up subconsciously doing all the time (if you think of yourself as an analytical player, it's rare for you to state a read without trying to rationalise it, and if you do, you'll try to rationalise it after the fact, but you'll often miss the real reason). I once had a game where I had four scumreads, three of them were the three scum, and after the game I discovered that none of the reasons I had for scumreading the players who were actually scum could possibly have been correct. That sort of accuracy is highly unlikely to be a coincidence, though.

Spoiler: Me catching all the scum for impossible reasons
In post 10943, callforjudgement wrote:Incidentally, it says quite a bit that out of the four players I read as scum over the course of the game (both watching it, and after replacing in), three of them were the three scum who existed in the game (sorry MathBlade for misreading you), and yet I feel like my scumhunting was terrible this game; every single player I caught, in retrospect my reason for catching them couldn't possibly have been correct. I had a strong read on Maxous as
group
scum (he wasn't), based on the way he claimed Survivor and on the fact that I felt the gamestate was most plausibly explained by a buddy covering for him with night actions. I thought the way SirCakez used night actions was implausible for a townie, but he was town at the time. I thought Gio had overclaimed, but the claim was entirely truthful. 3 out of 4 seems unlikely to be coincidence, and yet I still feel dissatisfied with the way my play turned out.


So in other words, I think that Lich's actual read progression has been pretty natural throughout the game, and that maybe there's been a bit of confusion in Lich's
stated
read progression that, if potentially regrettable, is nonetheless pretty plausible to have come from town. I also can't see much reason for scum to fabricate the particular reads in question (in particular, rejoining the OkaPoka wagon as the L-1 vote is probably a tactical mistake as scum, scum in Lich's position who wanted OkaPoka lynched or forced-to-claim could probably have naturally made themself the "intent to hammer" vote without it looking weird and it'd have increased the chance of someone else joining the wagon).
This is actually a really good post.
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:39 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 879, callforjudgement wrote:
In post 863, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 855, callforjudgement wrote:but I can see that happening as town when the gamestate is overwhelming you.
The only thing that overwhelms me are the warm, fuzzy feelings I get when some of the cast here makes a post. Boy, I love that everyone is so unique. By the way, why would the gamestate be overwhelming instead of underwhelming? It feels like a lot of people have been content to vote park for days on end
It depends on whether you measure activity in posts or votes.

The number of posts we've had has been very high, most of them not being particularly useful. That makes a catchup difficult because you have to read them all to see if there's anything important there, or else ignore them all and miss anything important that might be there.
In the current site meta, I'd probably consider the number of posts this game to be average or even below average.
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:18 pm

Post by Ircher »

I'm going to be V/LA from July 17 to July 21, so I will need you to do votecounts then.
(They don't have to be as fancy as my normal ones.)
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:33 pm

Post by Skygazer »

oh; can you ask a listmod to give me mod powers for the relevant threads if you havent already?
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