Courtney's Cafe PT

[FakeGod]

Courtney's Cafe

ofrhz & Day One Lynch & Judge Joseph Dredd & chennisden

[FakeGod]

This PT is open during the Night Phase.

There is one 1-shot Sane Doctor, one 1-shot Paranoid Doctor, one 1-shot Naive Doctor, and one 1-shot CPR Doctor in this PT.

You may talk here as long as you are alive.

[Day One Wagon]

JJD, I'm well aware that our sanity flips, but that's probably unique to our hood, so I didn't wanted to say something unnecessary there

We should probably fully claim at start of D2 at this point

I believed that chances were high that all of our hood was town due how bad 1-shot doc with unknown sanity is for scum, but town vig makes it really likely to have scum here to suffer with us

[ofrhz]

Might as well just continue our 1v1 here

Subject: Detective Penguin & City of Fogport [Night 1]

D1L response to me "hinting" at the neighborhood is townie. Gork's is NAI but he is being lazy. ofrhz' deflected and then tried to pass me as a suspect of hers.

Where did I deflect

I’ve said why I scumread you but I don’t know why you scumread me

Also if we’re going to start discussing about our hood amongst us now, why did you think there was only 0-1 scum in the hood when you weren’t townreading any one of us

And you explicitly stated gork was “not a townread” at the time

See? This question alone makes you scummy af in light of what I had said and also the game status.

What do you benefit from asking this NOW and here when I just said I'd be down to talk to D1L in the hood.. the same hood you are in. Why would you not hold off until it's time and place we all discussed this further? Do you think if you die overnight that neither of Gork/D1L will mention what happened in the hood?

<snip>

Now back to you: WHY ask THIS question NOW rather than wait for the night to fall and hit me with all you've got in the hood, with the support of two players who would be suspicious as well? D1L already outed his suspicions in this thread and The Wall naturally SRs my play in general.

What would have been the advantage of doing this? You had already outed the hood!

I wanted everyone in thegame to see what I thought was suspicious. Why would I want to keep my suspicions limited to this thread? I don't need Day one or Gork's support to pile on against you in here or whatever you think I should have done. Furthermore, I was townreading day one earlier, but I've been skimming the thread a lot lately, and off the top of my head, I don't even know their stance on the Perry/FL thing. I haven't had time to think harder about this slot. Gork I literally don't have any thoughts on besides thinking his 1v1 with Kuribo was really dumb

Additionally, this comment was one of the reasons why I started suspecting you way back in early-mid game. I didn't say anything at the time, because I didn't want to out the hood. It didn't make sense to me to think there was only 0-1 scum in the hood.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

And the bloody replacements olympics begin.

@ofrhz: As D1L pointed out, it's a mechanical thing that I think 0-1 scum are in this hood. You simply don't give scum multiple "Doctor of unknown sanity" roles. You lowkey give them one and they can figure it our by waiting to see how the other members of the neighborhood flip, or not at all.

That said, you are legit scum to me because of your stances. Your push on me is totally unjustified and is likely influenced by <redacted for now>, Your confidence in Pelican's flip being green from the very start is obv!Wking. Your lack of flare/presence in the game is alarming. Like, where do I even start here?

P-edit: Will read in a few minutes.. hold on

[ofrhz]

Why is my confidence in Perry's flip WK'ing? I have never been wrong about Perry's alignment in any game.

[ofrhz]

Subject: Detective Penguin & City of Fogport [Night 1]

@JJD - don’t fall into the ScumOfhrz trap. That’s what scum want people to think.

There's stuff I'm not at liberty of talking about rn, relating to someone else's actions/behaviour that I am attributing ofrhz' behaviour here to. Trust me, I have a valid reason to consider her for scum doing this particular thing.

Did you want to talk about this here? Or is this [redacted]

[ofrhz]

I'm probably just going to holster. If there's some fancy way as to how we're supposed to use our abilities, it's completely beyond me

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

What would have been the advantage of doing this? You had already outed the hood!

I outed who the hood members were. I didn't out the roles/function of it, and to explain why IO thought 0-1 scum were in this hood I'd have had to say something like what I just did in my previous post in this PT. Like; "you don't give scum multiple 1-shot Doctor of unknown sanity roles". How was I to answer your question otherwise?

[Day One Wagon]

Ofrhz, do you think scum would have additional abilities to their 1-shot doc in our hood? Cause I still believe that giving scum 2 of these 1-shot docs would be punishing them really hard

Also, my stance on whole that thing was that I didn't wanted to have anything with it. I tried to dig into details of Pelly's rc, was told it's against spirit of the game and just gave up

P-Edit: there is no fancy way, scum probably knows everything anyway, our roles are literally on display

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Why would I want to keep my suspicions limited to this thread?

Because -assuming you're town- you know some other players (who are also likely town from your own PoV) didn't want to out the roles yet. Because EVEN IF PUSH COME TO SHOVE and you are the N1 NK (I don't see how this could even be a realistic assumption) there are at least 2 other townies who will be able to convey each and every word said in here to the main thread tomorrow.

[ofrhz]

Yeah I didn't realize you had a mechanical reason for thinking there was 0-1 scum, JJD.

I actually thought there would've been at least one scum in this hood just because... it's a 4-person hood and all of the other outed hoods at the time only had 3 people, which I thought was weird. Like an all town 4person hood would be very powerful I think? Idk

[ofrhz]

Ofrhz, do you think scum would have additional abilities to their 1-shot doc in our hood? Cause I still believe that giving scum 2 of these 1-shot docs would be punishing them really hard

Not really, I'm just not seeing how our roles

aren't

strong for scum

Sane - Doc
Paranoid - JK
Naive - does nothing
CPR - Basically a vig

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I don't even know their stance on the Perry/FL thing. I haven't had time to think harder about this slot. Gork I literally don't have any thoughts on besides thinking his 1v1 with Kuribo was really dumb

And you wonder why I'm calling you out?? Ram has been clear enough he wasn't touching the "50/50" between FL & Peliocan with a barge pole (i.e.. wasn't voting Pelican this century), and having "no thoughts" on Gork is "shrugging off responsibility". On top of that you picked me to state a SR on? Yeah, all the hood is scum then. Let's let's JJD and if he flips green I can go for Gork or D1: because I have no thoughts and no idea what their stances are.

Like, again.. let's hypothetically assume you're town here for a minute.. if I said I SR you and had no thoughts on the other two, would you be TRing me for it? WAIT! I'll even call myself an ofrhz alt. Now would you TR me for that???

[ofrhz]

I'm not saying you have to TR me for it. But not having caught up on this game where everyone writes a lot of words as if 2010 meta is back in fashion doesn't make me scum. I spent almost an entire single night just reading Perry/FL/pops ISOs, since that was basically the entire discussion in the thread, so you can ask me about that if you want to sort me.

[Day One Wagon]

Ofrhz, do you think scum would have additional abilities to their 1-shot doc in our hood? Cause I still believe that giving scum 2 of these 1-shot docs would be punishing them really hard

Not really, I'm just not seeing how our roles

aren't

strong for scum

Sane - Doc
Paranoid - JK
Naive - does nothing
CPR - Basically a vig

It's 1-shot and you don't know what you get, unless you're last man in hood, so not really usable early on

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

It didn't make sense to me to think there was only 0-1 scum in the hood.

You're either bad ir really bad for this regardless of your alignment.

Let me try and make it a bit clearer: There is a Mafia team, most likely composed of 4 slots (could be 3 or 5, depending on the power distribution, but the standard is 4 in a 17 players setup). In fact, I'll try to cover all possibilities.

3-man scum team with a 1-shot Doctor is never the case. Period. There are Millers, Vigs, unkillable/untargetable slots, so if the scum are only 3 then one of Bingle or Vecna gas to be scum to compensate for it (hint: It's Bingle 101% of the time.). The other two are also string PRs (i.e. not 1-shot Doctors)

4-man team: 0-1 scums in this PT is reasonable. (That's may or may not have a scumster in this hood). This whole hood has negligible powers compared to the rest of the game (minus the trio we have no idea what they are, but still..). Scum may or may not be given a vote boost, but the sure do have one of theirs in the "must be lynched because they cannot be NK'd" hood. One in the Millers PT is reasonable (and more likely than one in the Doctors), and almost certainly one in the Ninja hood. That leaves us AND the "unknown powers trio" for one additional scum slot. 1 Unkillable + 1 (fake) Miller + 1 Ninja + 1 in either of the other 2 PTs

5-man scum team: Still has one in the unkillables, but not necessarily between the multiple voters (i.e. Marquis is likely). 1 Ninja + 1 Miller still, and TWO others (so one is in here for certain).

Now try to sell me more than one scum in this PT to counter.

[Day One Wagon]

Last hood is 4 ppl too - Kagami, Chandra, PP and Croag, I doubt there is someone without hood

What you think about high chance of scum in our hood just because town vig exists?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

The tl;dr is: 3 scums = this is a Masonry. 4 scums = maybe but unlikey. 5 scums = most like 1 but that also means scum are in all hoods and the town is at a disadvantage which justifies giving town 2 multiple voters and Bingle is stupid town for suggesting not using it.

Oh, right. Forgot about the Penguin somehow.

[Day One Wagon]

Also, it should be obvious, but we shouldn't try to use our abilities, it's not worth it, especially with addiction mechanic in play

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

The thing is ofrhz knows I think a lot about mechanics and setup, and that I do not necessarily out all my thoughts on D1. I wasn't trying to be much of an element in shaping how the day went and that is NOT how my scum game goes. I suspect she wanted to be TR'd by me for pushing me "because she wouldn't do that as scum.. bla bla.." (I think you get my drift, but that was a specific tell on a certain someone @ofrhz)

[ofrhz]

Yeah I concede it's unlikely for there to be 2 scum. I didn't think there would be zero scum in here, but maybe I was wrong about that too. It's hard to say without knowing details about the other hood because they seem strong but their powers could be gated as well

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Why is my confidence in Perry's flip WK'ing? I have never been wrong about Perry's alignment in any game.

Because it did look like a scum slip and ANYONE should have harboured some level of suspicion the way things went. Unless you believed BOTH FL & pops were scum, and then it would be overly ridiculous they'd double tag team on Pelican of all players to get him lynched like that.

[chennisden]

Sup

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Subject: Detective Penguin & City of Fogport [Night 1]

@JJD - don’t fall into the ScumOfhrz trap. That’s what scum want people to think.

There's stuff I'm not at liberty of talking about rn, relating to someone else's actions/behaviour that I am attributing ofrhz' behaviour here to. Trust me, I have a valid reason to consider her for scum doing this particular thing.

Did you want to talk about this here? Or is this [redacted]

Redacted, but I get the feeling you should be bale to make an educated assumption of what I'm talking about.