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Chess Thread

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:01 pm

Post by Junpei »

So I want to get better at chess again. I used to be pretty good (in context! I was pretty good for my standards..), but now I only remember a few openings and tactics.

Basically, I was wondering if anyone has good tips on how to get better at chess, or knows a good way to train. Also we could play chess games against each other and everyone in the thread could critique each other and talk about other chess related subjects.

(this is a Mastermind of Sin endorsed HELP THREAD -- "take that, Google!")

Also chess.com is easy to use if we want to do that. I can't find El's chess thread so I made one, I think the rollback got rid of it.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:56 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

I mean, the greatest way to learn is to read read read and play play play. Play every day. Read about new openings and then try them. You will only become comfortable with lines when you've played them over and over again from both sides. It's also helpful to know what relative win %s are for different lines. That way you can know when you're playing against, say, the excellerated dragon, that X response has a 51% white win and Y response has a 46% white win.

there are plenty of decent free sites. Do some searching. There are also some fantastic chess players on this site. Play them. Sudo, yaw, for instance, are both way way better than me.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:40 pm

Post by LlamaFluff »

It also depends on what type of skill you are looking to achieve. If you just want to have fun, playing is all you really need.

When I actually played I was around 1800 USCF, knew about the first 10-15 moves of the openings I used, basic tactics and the common endgames. That was about it. Mostly just playing is all that you will need to do if you want to just have fun, once it gets competitive learn a couple openings and other basics. Learn an odd opening too if you want to play at not high competitive skill, since it will trash most of what those people have learned for the early game as they have to fake it
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:39 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

In post 2, LlamaFluff wrote:It also depends on what type of skill you are looking to achieve. If you just want to have fun, playing is all you really need.

When I actually played I was around 1800 USCF, knew about the first 10-15 moves of the openings I used, basic tactics and the common endgames. That was about it. Mostly just playing is all that you will need to do if you want to just have fun, once it gets competitive learn a couple openings and other basics. Learn an odd opening too if you want to play at not high competitive skill, since it will trash most of what those people have learned for the early game as they have to fake it


Last thing he said is completely true. Playing reti at a tournament level = a lot of really confused mid ranked players moving pieces at random. You will know the lines and they will be guessing. You will win those games like 80% of the time given equal skill levels.
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:41 pm

Post by LlamaFluff »

In post 3, Thestatusquo wrote:
Last thing he said is completely true. Playing reti at a tournament level = a lot of really confused mid ranked players moving pieces at random. You will know the lines and they will be guessing. You will win those games like 80% of the time given equal skill levels.


Thats actually what I played. Love the 1 ...d5 2 c4 dxc4 line because it would just put so many players completely out of book.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:43 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

mhm. Reti is probably my favorite opening because it crushes any player that is a solid to good but not amazing chess player. I'm not going to beat amazing chess players anyway.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:37 am

Post by Yaw »

I wouldn't say my ability is as good as Shea thinks it is...

Anyway, we do have chess tags on site, for any correspondence play. Also, you'd be amazed by how much good free stuff is out there -- databases, sites with tactics puzzles and explanations, there's even a free program for openings training. For players around our ability, though, you're better off getting really good at tactics and basic endgames. Your opponent's probably going to deviate from your opening lines early anyway, so memorizing more than 5-6 moves deep isn't likely to do you much good. Instead, you want to really focus on the themes involved. Win percentages also don't mean much around our level (provided the database isn't telling you some absurd win percentage on either side).
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:55 am

Post by Sudo_Nym »

To build on what Yaw said, memorizing openings is basically a waste of time. You want to have an idea of the opening, and the ability to analyze, but really, the opening's purpose is to get you to the middlegame as efficiently as possible. It's far better to spend time studying tactics and positioning if you want to get good. Understand what you're trying to do, how to get there, and how to stop your opponent from doing his thing. As they say, the middlegame is the soul of chess, and if you get good at it, you can generally make up for being somewhat weaker at openings and endgames.
One time, back in 'nam, Sudo was set upon by an entire squadron of charlies. He challenged them all to a game of Pictionary, which he won resoundingly. The charlies were forced to not only surrender the skirmish, but also their world-famous chili recipe, which Sudo sold to Texas for a hefty profit. Sudo is a master of diplomacy.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:00 am

Post by chesskid3 »

In post 7, Sudo_Nym wrote:To build on what Yaw said, memorizing openings is basically a waste of time. You want to have an idea of the opening, and the ability to analyze, but really, the opening's purpose is to get you to the middlegame as efficiently as possible. It's far better to spend time studying tactics and positioning if you want to get good. Understand what you're trying to do, how to get there, and how to stop your opponent from doing his thing. As they say, the middlegame is the soul of chess, and if you get good at it, you can generally make up for being somewhat weaker at openings and endgames.

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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:17 am

Post by Isa »

I tend to agree with that though.

There's quite a few chess games going on in MishMash, feel free to challenge people there.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:09 pm

Post by Llamarble »

I've put a lot of time into chess and am about as strong as Chesskid (I think he has maybe 20 rating points on me).
I haven't been playing as much lately, but I'm starting to study again and intend to get to master sometime in the next couple of years.

Advice:
Studying from books (with a board in front of me to look at things, unless it's a tactics book) is really really helpful to me.
Playing games and going over them (especially with opponents who often know relevant things) is crucial.
I also got some lessons after I reached about 1700.

I've mostly spent book time on openings and tactics, but I've also read some key books that were on more general topics like attack, defense, and the middlegame.
Endgame knowledge can kinda be picked up from various sources.

1000 Up till about 1400:
The Art of the Middle Game by Keres and Kotov taught me how to make a plan and showed me some chess concepts like attacking with pawns when kings castle on opposite sides.
I also read "My System" by Nimzovitch sometime during this period, which is another very good book to show you some objectives you should be playing for beyond exploiting blunders to win material.
Attacking with 1.e4 by Emms(?) was my first repertoire book. It's really good to have at least some idea what you're going to do in every opening situation.
Chess openings traps and zaps and other easier tactics books.

The 2 books that turned me into a very aggressive player and helped me improve so fast that I skipped the 1500s entirely on my rating supplements:
1001 ways to checkmate (Reinfeld) I solved every problem in this book multiple times. I am now very good at seeing checkmates.
The Art of Attack in Chess (Vukovic) I learned the ideas behind attacking and learned a lot of techniques / things to think about.

1700-2000
I studied a lot of openings and tactics during this time, some of it prepared material by my teacher with an emphasis on going through games.
I read a book on the classical sicilian.
And I read "King's Indian Battle Plans," a really awesome book that goes through a ton of KID games and discusses the interesting ideas in them.
1001 Chess Tactics (Reinfeld)
Mastering Chess Tactics (McDonald)

I've just started studying again, and my books of choice right now are a beating anti king's indians type book and a beating anti sicilians book.
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:38 pm

Post by Llamarble »

In post 7, Sudo_Nym wrote:To build on what Yaw said, memorizing openings is basically a waste of time. You want to have an idea of the opening, and the ability to analyze, but really, the opening's purpose is to get you to the middlegame as efficiently as possible. It's far better to spend time studying tactics and positioning if you want to get good. Understand what you're trying to do, how to get there, and how to stop your opponent from doing his thing. As they say, the middlegame is the soul of chess, and if you get good at it, you can generally make up for being somewhat weaker at openings and endgames.

Good opening books usually give moves and variations, explain why they make sense and what the goals are, and then give example games.
If I've studied a book on the opening that starts a game I play, I'll be more likely to get a middlegame position I like and more likely to know what the right approach is when I get there.
I'll also have seen a lot of the typical tactical ideas associated with the opening, so I'm less likely to miss opportunities and make blunders.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:02 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

llama, what is your opinion on the fried liver attack?
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:09 pm

Post by Llamarble »

I visited the US (chess) Open in 2001 before I played in any chess tournaments because it was being held a few towns over and I liked chess.
I thought it was really cool and signed up for the USCF there with intent to play in some tournaments nearby, which I did.
GM Arthur Bisguier was giving a simul and I signed up, and I was black.
I played 1...e5 back then and he used the fried liver attack against me and I got crushed, but it was awesome.

Other than that I've never encountered the Fried Liver attack and I've never used it,
and right now my repertoire can't encounter it, so I don't really know much about it theory-wise.

Years later, in 2010 (I think) I played Bisguier in a local tournament and drew him. He's the only GM I've ever drawn.
And because of that I have drawn a guy who has beaten Bobby Fischer.
(Fischer was young when he lost to Bisguier and Bisguier was pretty old when we played our second game)
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:26 pm

Post by Rainbowdash »

In post 13, Llamarble wrote:Years later, in 2010 (I think) I played Bisguier in a local tournament and drew him. He's the only GM I've ever drawn.


Yeesh... best ive ever drawn is a FM and that was a casual game way back when. Have beaten an IM in an ICC simul but that doesnt really count because ICC (at least used) to be ultra-inflated rating because there is NO way im a 2100 strength player.

Think I topped out over 2200 bullet a few times there.
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:14 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

Fried liver might be something you want to look at if you're a very aggressive player as you say, which is why I brought it up. It fits into some of my natural tendencies as a chess player.
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:37 am

Post by hiplop »

ask CHESSKID

I won quite a few chess tourneys in high school, nothing amazing, though. Mostly what Status has been saying, honestly.

Junpei, fwict you could definitely be a pretty great chess player, seem intelligent enough
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:20 am

Post by Llamarble »

Right now I play the Bishop's Opening and get decent results with it, though I think once I've gotten through the anti-sicilians and anti-king's-indians books I'm working on now and an endgame encyclopedia, I'm going to start studying the Ruy Lopez so I can switch over to it.

I think black has a lot of options that avoid the fried liver that I'm not sure I'd want to deal with, but I'll definitely look into it when I'm picking a new way to deal with 1... e5
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:57 pm

Post by chesskid3 »

I mean, I don't believe in the fried liver

but then again I also don't believe in the four knights kind of shit
and I don't play e5 as black

and I play the ruy lopez as white because it's just a slight advantage you can grind out
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:19 pm

Post by UberNinja »

In post 8, chesskid3 wrote:
In post 7, Sudo_Nym wrote:To build on what Yaw said, memorizing openings is basically a waste of time. You want to have an idea of the opening, and the ability to analyze, but really, the opening's purpose is to get you to the middlegame as efficiently as possible. It's far better to spend time studying tactics and positioning if you want to get good. Understand what you're trying to do, how to get there, and how to stop your opponent from doing his thing. As they say, the middlegame is the soul of chess, and if you get good at it, you can generally make up for being somewhat weaker at openings and endgames.

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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:54 pm

Post by chesskid3 »

I mean yeah like

up until say 1600 level fuck openings
but if you want to get GOOD you need to know openings.

Or at least
the openings you play decently well and SOME of other shit

but the difference between a 2200 and a 2000 say is that the 2200 knows openings cold
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:00 pm

Post by Llamarble »

Any books / other materials on the Ruy you've found particularly awesome to learn from? I'll probably buy a Ruy book pretty soon.
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:20 pm

Post by UberNinja »

Wow you guys are really serious about all this stuff.
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:48 pm

Post by Psyche »

I want to get better and cess and it's kne of my favorite games, but I often wonder to myself what the point of it all is...

Is it worth getting better at? After all, it's really domain specific and won't improve your capacities in other areas of life..
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:51 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

Is this not true with basically any other hobby you could have? Isn't your question basically "why do people bother getting good at things they enjoy?"

Which seems like a pretty dumb question.
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