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BROseidon
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Post Post #8175  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:03 am

Jungler is a map position that can be viably occupied by a number of champ classes. ADC is a champ class played by whiney babies who want their favorite class to be perennially broken.

If top and mid laners have to learn literally every class, junglers have to learn like 3, and supports have to learn 2, ADC players can and should be bothered to have another class viable in their lane position

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Post Post #8176  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:04 am

I would define the classes as something like:

ADC
Assassin
Mage
Support
Tank
Bruiser
Fighter

Panzerjager
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Post Post #8177  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:10 am

Bruiser and Fighter are the same thing.

Solo laners are just one thing. They only have to learn 3 classes max and not every guy learns each classes.

Junglers only run two classes.

~~

Why is it okay for support to only be one thing, but not ADC? Not only is it okay, they nerf everything that *isn't* a support to force that pigeon hole. Just because you have an issue with the people who play the role doesn't mean it isn't an important part of the game. Not only that, but the ADC nerf also negatively effected the champion variety of support. Because they nerfed a lot of the scaling items AND the support items to protect and give the ADC more stats, you can basically only play like 4 supports that all play basically the same way. Over the 84 games of Play-ins, only 5 supports played 5 or more games(more than 4% of total games): Ali, TK, Rakan, BRaum, Thresh.

In the entire "Main Event", the only other guys who got significant play rate are Leona(because of Alistair Bans) and Gragas(because of really dumb coaching)
Last edited by Panzerjager on Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #8178  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:17 am

Fiora plays very differently from, say, Shyvanna.

Literally every class has been viable in a solo lane at one point or another.

Jungle has ADC (graves), Mage (Taliyah, Fiddles), as well as the tanks/bruisers/fighters that have historically dominated. Assassin and support are the only classes that have never been in the jungle in a meaningful capacity.

Support players have to play supports and tanks (cow, Leona, Taric, Shen), and there had been some mages who've been meta bots (Morgana, fiddlesticks)

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Post Post #8179  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:18 am

Basically it's super disingenuous to say that other roles don't have role diversity because ADCs have absolutely been the spoiled children of LoL for its history, and the class is still systemically overtuned

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Post Post #8180  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:24 am

Maybe i should say bruiser vs melee carry.

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Post Post #8181  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:24 am

In post 8178, BROseidon wrote:Fiora plays very differently from, say, Shyvanna.

Literally every class has been viable in a solo lane at one point or another.

Jungle has ADC (graves), Mage (Taliyah, Fiddles), as well as the tanks/bruisers/fighters that have historically dominated. Assassin and support are the only classes that have never been in the jungle in a meaningful capacity.

Support players have to play supports and tanks (cow, Leona, Taric, Shen), and there had been some mages who've been meta bots (Morgana, fiddlesticks)

junglers with khazix, rengar, full ad jarvan stuff like that for assassins
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Post Post #8182  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:25 am

Ah shit forgot Rengar and Kha ur right.

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Post Post #8183  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:25 am

Full AD Jarvan was never really "good" though, it was mostly a lane cheese thing.

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Post Post #8184  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:26 am

Also J4 is still one of the greatest kits ever created don't @ me

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Post Post #8185  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:28 am

I already disputed the "champion diversity point" in an edit. The supports basically fall into 2 categories, disengage tank or engage tank, due to the ADC changes.

There are 5 played top laners right now. 3 bruisers and Sion/Ornn(with Viktor picking up steam late with a measly 5 plays because of some Korean solo q shenanigans).

Mid legitimately has 4 classes(but that's more a testament to Irelia being busted).

Junglers right now are bruisers and Taliyah.

~~

You simply want to see the world burn because you don't like ADC players.
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Post Post #8186  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:31 am

You need to play bruisers everywhere because they are your early and mid game damage because ADCs take forever to ramp up. And unless you play 2 tanks and a scaling mage, you have to run 3 bruisers and an engage support. In my opinion, it's stale and it's all because ADC is too weak. They didn't need to rework all the items right after they basically dusted every support item. Edit: beside zekes
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Post Post #8187  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:35 am

And if you're speaking historically, every mage beside Morgana 6 years ago has been nerfed out of support(Annie, Lux, Brand, Vel Koz, Malzahar) and the meta has always been dominated by either the squishy supports or the tank supports. So why is it okay for Support to be a monolith but not ADC? Especially when the state of ADC has a larger impact on the game as a whole AND from a marketing stand point, losing 3 of the most bankable star pros for medium to large portions of a split is poor decision making.

It's like if you start calling traveling on LeBron. The game is worse. Do it. Let LeBron travel.
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Post Post #8188  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:40 am

The issues you're talking about are more due to specific champs (Ornn, Irelia, Aatrox, Urgot) being OP than the bruiser class being systemically overtuned.

Metas will come and go defined by which few champs sit at the top, but ADC is the only class that survives all metas because of them being systemically busted

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Post Post #8189  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:42 am

And your point about supports is still bad because they still learn 2 classes at least. You're right that most mage supports do end up getting nerfed eventually, but that's also something I disagree with. Also ADC support was a thing once (MF/Ashe lane). That was fun.

Also your comparison to lebron is very short term decision making.

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Post Post #8190  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:32 am

Saying supports are learning two classes then you should acknowledge that somethign like ashe and something like MF or Corki are different classes.
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Post Post #8191  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:58 am

Their play patterns are much closer than Leona vs Janna. If anything, the mage class has the most diverse play patterns. The ADCs that are the furthest away from the rest of the class are Graves and Jhin

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Post Post #8192  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:59 am

Like yeah Ashe and MF aren't literally the same champ but your general mechanics and what you do with them are pretty same-ey

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Post Post #8193  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:07 am

Build paths and play styles are completely different between MF/Luc and Ashe/Cait and you're blinded by your bias if you think otherwise.

And every support buys the same items and as basically always done so.
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Post Post #8194  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:10 am

ADCs might have the highest Item diversity and power spike diversity in the game. Everyone else basically builds the same shit as everyone in their class and are strong around the same time, with kit and numbers being the only deciding factor on who is played.
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Post Post #8195  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:11 am

Item build paths aren't play patterns (also for a good chunk of the history of the game you're wrong wrt how ADC builds look like after 3 items or so). Power spikes aren't play patterns. It doesn't matter as much to diversity that Lucian and Ashe peak at different times and use different items at their peaks when they both largely do the same thing (use autoattacks to kill things, stay at range, obliterate turrets/objectives). Saying that MF and Ashe have further apart play patterns than Leona and Janna is outright insane.

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Post Post #8196  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:12 am

ADCs have high build diversity (right now) and power spike diversity, but they all fundamentally bring the same thing (or something in a very narrow space) to a team

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Post Post #8197  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:22 am

large disagree, you're crazy. probably play the game more than once every two years,
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Post Post #8198  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:26 am

Yeah the game hasn't fundamentally changed that much

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Post Post #8199  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:26 am

S1-s5 I probably played more than you have over your lifetime

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