Hearthstone- Heroes of Warcraft (Enter Your ID!)

[chamber]

Warlock: 2 mana & 2 life = 1 card
Arcane Intellect: 3 mana = 2 cards
Battle Rage: 2 mana = 1+ card
Flare: 1 mana = 1 card
Mortal Coil: 1 mana = 1 card + 1 damage

You are looking at this wrong.


Warlock: 2 mana & 2 life = +1 card
Arcane Intellect: 3 mana = +1 card
Battle Rage: 2 mana = 1+ cards
Flare: 1 mana = +0 card
Mortal Coil: 1 mana = +0 card + 1 damage

I'm still not saying his ability is the best, but you were underselling it

[chamber]

I did two arenas today and only got 3 wins each...bad decks

and a bad player

3/3 should be about average. It means you are winning half of your games.

I've tried to get into playing again, but the only competitive deck I have the cards for is quite boring.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/45379-sa ... aggro-mage

I've been playing this mage aggro deck. So far I really don't understand the water elementals or drakes. Sad continuously with them in my hand.

[chamber]

I understand the value of the cards in the general, they seem terrible in this deck to me still.

Most of the time I win its by flooding the board early with creatures and then burning them out once they stabilize. They don't help with that plan at all, and actively impede it when I mulligan into them.

[chamber]

The freeze cards are almost always pointed at the head.

The draw feels a little goofy for sure. But not nearly as bad as the drakes and water elementals.

[chamber]

I'm only a 14 so far, It's possible the cards show their worth more at higher rankings?

[chamber]

Control Warrior face rolls me regardless.

Azure drake costs too much if that's all its doing(imo anyway).

I played both of the cards in a control mage deck during the beta, and they were some of the best cards in it (well 5 mana blizzard but~)

[chamber]

blargerer 1563

If anyone wants to add me.

[chamber]

level 50 seems insane to get to, I'm only high 30's on one character ._.

Knife juggler is a completely unfair card.

[chamber]

Are there any stats on median rank? I've notice it's gotten a lot harder to progress in the 7-8 range.

[chamber]

Are win streak bonuses not a thing at rank 5+?

[chamber]

That looks a step more aggroy than the zoo lists I've been seeing.

[chamber]

The first wing non-heroic was too. I feel like you have to be paying for the cards more than the adventure

[chamber]

can I sign up? what are the rules?

[chamber]

I'm super shit at arena (though I've heard frostbolts are more important for mage decks).

[chamber]

I get blown out by random shit so often.

Whats your actual strategy for consistently hitting 7-8. I was able to in the beta but not anymore.

[chamber]

Yes. That has to be true.

Every time you win someone else loses. So for you to get 3 wins someone has gotten 3 loses.

I think I'm better than average at constructed though, so comparatively shit at arena.

[chamber]

I have 1 void terror in my zoo.

[chamber]

Rotating formats, new classes, new mechanics.

[chamber]

that 3 mana 2/8 taunt wrecks my mage deck. RIP mage deck.


Edit: the card just seems way too good vs aggro in general :/.

[chamber]

Silence effects have gotten much stronger imo with some of these nixx cards.

[chamber]

Already feeling it.

[chamber]

just lost a game to handlock because I accidentally used holy smite on myself

fml

I once fireballed myself because I was trying to change my sequencing and didn't quite drag it all the way back to my hand >_>.

[chamber]

I think you just have to mull /not play them on tun 3 vs decks that can easily 1 shot them and have scary shit.

[chamber]

You don't say.

[chamber]

Yeeeeah miracle rogue.

[chamber]

Your zoo list is card for card the same as mine. I like it a fair bit.

Your hunter deck is quite similar to mine, though not exact. I agree that face hunter is the better hunter deck atm, so I stopped working on/playing it until I can get a leeroy.

[chamber]

Does anyone have any guides or know any advice for 5+, the lack of win streaks really holds me down, I float between 6 and 4.

[chamber]

They could easily give mage a set of 4 mana secrets and tweak one or 2 of the existing ones to be at that cost instead. This would likely be a future expansion idea. right now it might be 1 for paladin 2 for hunter and 3 for mage, but there is no reason mage/hunter couldn't get a wider range of secret costs as long as their are multiple options at each.

[chamber]

It's so hard to move up in rank 5+.

[chamber]

I was at rank 4, 5 stars twice today, lost close games both times now I'm back to like 2 or 3 stars.

[chamber]

HS is a fairly simple game, so once you are at like rank 10- it's probably best just to assume the other person did what they did for a reason, and figure out what card(s) make it make sense.

[chamber]

If you consider that the arena games could be regular games, where 6 wins gets you 20 gold, you don't actually turn any profit until 7 wins, you are often losing gold with less than 6.

[chamber]

I really like warlock in arena. And I think paladin has the best class ability for arena. everything else looks about right though. I suspect they were just stating personal preferences though.

[chamber]

What rank are you oman?

[chamber]

I don't think that secret is all that strong tbh. It's fine I guess?

[chamber]

that makes buzzard unplayable leeroy should be fine at 5.

[chamber]

The problem card is really unleash the hounds not buzzard.

[chamber]

I know that nerfing buzzard helps fix uth, but buzzard was fine at 2 mana, the problem was its interaction with UTH, and in that pairing UTH is the broken card, just get rid of or completely rework it.

[chamber]

You can disenchant for full cost after a nerf typically.

[chamber]

7-8.

[chamber]

The main point is that it wouldn't really nerf the combo with UTH at all (which was the issue) while possibly situationally making it weaker or stronger outside of that.

[chamber]

thing because that's going to be a thing no matter what with any card unless it has charge or battlecry

Yeah but most don't cost 9.

[chamber]

some hunters, priests, rogues too.

[chamber]

zoo isn't really free. Has a lot of rares. My most expensive deck by a lot (but I have no legendaries that I use).

[chamber]

Thoughtsteal is a pretty meh card imo.

[chamber]

It's random as far as I can tell.

[chamber]

I'm climbing the ladder with the new aggro mage deck and I'm at a100% winrate up to level 14 right now...

Whats the list?

[chamber]

rogues hero power being shit is probably the biggest downside, it's waaaay weaker than mages, possibly the weakest hero power in arena imo (warriors is also poop).

[chamber]

Really? I take that card fairly high when I choose to play rogue.

[chamber]

The thing with anubar ambusher is it's slow as hell, so if you have a tempo advantage you dont want to play the ambusher turn 4.

If you have a tempo advantage and play it, whats the worst that can happen? They waste a hard removal spell on your 4 drop and bounce a 3 drop? And that's pretty rare. More likely you can trade off your lower drops and abuse the fact that your 4 mana 5/5 eats every other 4 drop.

[chamber]

How many of the 4 mana 3/4 with deathrattle but a demon into play?

[chamber]

Yeah, seems like too many then. You don't eve want multiples in your hand when it comes time to play them. 2-3 tops I'd think.

[chamber]

I really think in arena your emphasis should be on card quality first and curve 2nd. Curve still matters but making sure the 3 drops you get are the good three drops tends to matter more than how many you get (Imo) if you are picking between two shitty cards just take the cheap one as long as it does something is my rule to stop my curve from getting unruly.

[chamber]

My extremely official prediction is madder bomber will be in its own top tier in arena.

Mad Bomber is hard enough to use. Madder Bomber is just going to be utter chaos.

Actually there wre recent stats posted on reddit indicating that Mad Bomber appears proportionately more in 12 win arena decks than any other card.

Maybe (read: probably) I'm just still bad at this game, but I feel like the risk of Mad Bomber killing your 1HP minion or putting it in range of something nasty (Tazdingo in range of Flamestrike, Ooze in range of Mage Hero Power, etc.) is too high to justify playing it, so when I draft it, it often sits in my hand. How do you use it well/why is it so strong?
?

It's just as good as any other 3/2 on turn 2 (which is to say, quite good). Play it when the opponent has minions at 1 Hp or that you can trade with if they lose 1 hp. If you have 1hp guys trade them off first. helps if you are someone like mage to enable killing 2hp guys etc.


Edit: the main points are that it's a good 2 drop on turn 2 and not useless on turn 5-6 if you sculpt the board a bit which you should have control to do. Lots of 2 drops aren't so hot by then.

[chamber]

Similar deck to mine.

[chamber]

I assume arena uses matchmaking, so presumably if it's got your true matchmaking value 3/3 is the most likely result

I can basically guarantee arena doesn't use any player based match making. Record based for sure though. The average is still 3-3 but if you are good you can do consistently better than that.

[chamber]

On my

sixth

seventh win in arena. Last game was the only one where I felt the guy was actually kind of good. Are you sure there isn't some behind the scenes mmr?

I do consistently better than 3/3. Thats my only actual evidence. (my average is probably like 5 wins, though I know of some streamers that always seem to break 7).

[chamber]

You probably played like shit. I do that all the time. I think I have a monster so I play like shit round 1 because I don't think I need to take my opponent seriously.

[chamber]

Blessing of might is terrible.

[chamber]

Blessing of Might is fine as a way to make your hero power dudes work as a removal spell. It's nothing special, but it does a job if it needs to.

The card he picked it over is better at doing that in most instances.

[chamber]

Saraad doesn't seem all that good to me? Haven't played enough HS recently to be sure but it has meh stats for 5 and doesnt do anything right away,

[chamber]

Whats the best budget deck atm?

[chamber]

Patron

I don't really think of that deck as being budget.

[chamber]

no epics one nonpack legendary?
How do you define budget then?

Me not needing 700 gold for the solo adventure.

[chamber]

do you have naxx?

Only naxx cards I have are the first group that cost no gold.

[chamber]

I'm playing warlock already. I have an old zoo list from after naxx. Was wondering if their was a cheap new deck I could get for a few thousand dust.

[chamber]

I built oil rogue, I have no idea what i'm doing.

[chamber]

I built oil rogue, I have no idea what i'm doing.

~20 Games later, I don't think I like this deck all that much. The games where it draws well it crushes but some seem completely unsalvageable.

[chamber]

hmmm, can i see your list?
add me in bnet, I'll obs you when I have time.

only budget choice I made was assassinate over the 4 cost epic that kills a random guy and has combo to kill a weapon too.

[chamber]

why leper gnomes in that list?

Edit: also assassinate hasn't felt like even close to the worst card in that list to me.

[chamber]

Abusive Sargent seems way better at the very least.

[chamber]

Like how am I supposed to play this hand?

[chamber]

The question was rhetorical. It was a statement about how bad the hands in the deck can be.

[chamber]

It does nothing proactive in a matchup where I'm most certainly the aggro.

[chamber]

A Blade Flurry makes it good if you were against an aggro pally.

It's a great hand against an aggro deck. I was playing vs control warrior so the hand did literally nothing.

[chamber]

should be somewhere between 10 and 6, 5+ should be an epic.

[chamber]

the only times I can think of cases where decks get nerfed and they don't nerf it by attacking the card draw component is when it's a Warlock deck,

They nurfed freezemage back in the day by increasing the cost of cone of cold and blizzard by 1 each.

[chamber]

On curve play is the most important aspect of a minion. A good arena deck is picking the minimum number of 2's, 3's, and 4's you need to curve out consistently, and then after hitting that minimum drafting nothing but ogres because ogres have better card efficiency.

But, I mean, we can talk about how a 4 mana 5/6 with "Battlecry: Frost Shock a friendly minion" is a great card on turn 8 if you want to.

I don't think hungry dragon is the best 4 drop, but I think in the majority of decks its way better than refreshment vendor.

[chamber]

I've had terrible loss streaks before, just happens sometimes.

[chamber]

It also feels terrible to win against patron warrior.

I normally feel pretty good when I win against patron. Can be tricky to play against it at times. Rewarding when it works out.

[chamber]

New sets will become increasingly irrelevant unless they introduce a method of card rotation or let power creep run out of control.

[chamber]

I've been running the 2 mana 3/2 beast and 5 mana 3/3 if you have a beast summon a random beast in my midrange hunter too. I don't actually think the deck is all that good though.

[chamber]

It's what happens when you design a game with 2-3 nontrivial decisions per 30 minute match.

uh what are you playing that is taking 30 minutes

I play very average game length decks like Mechmage and Secretadin. I'm just awful at making time estimates. I stand corrected here.

Those decks, especially mechmage, have almost no decisions and just count on cancer draws. Don't complain about lack of decision points if thats what you are playing?

[chamber]

You can't tell Japanese Chinese and Korean apart?

[chamber]

Does Nat Pagle see play in anything? Just opened a gold one and very tempted to cash it in for a different legendary.

[chamber]

Richard Garfield has an excellent speech about the different elements someone can draw fun from in a game like magic (for which HS can apply) I'll try and find it.

[chamber]

https://youtu.be/av5Hf7uOu-o?t=921

[chamber]

I didn't read the rule before playing. All game I was trying to figure out wtf was changing the costs. Eventually I out luck my opponent and win, read the rule is completely random. ._. (at one point I had malygos and antonidas in play). What a silly format.

[chamber]

I don't think it's a bug.

[chamber]

whats expensive in midrange hunter other than boom?

[chamber]

Depending on when you last checked their value they could either be worth a lot more or a lot less. Extended isn't even a format anymore.

[chamber]

I still think the biggest issue (and it's biggest strength over competitors as a casual game) is that you can't do anything on your opponents turn.

[chamber]

That problem should mostly self correct given time though? As they print more cards, there will be better options at each cost for every strategy, which might make the aggro decks more powerful, but if they are already consistent, they wont get more consistent, where as the control decks still can.

[chamber]

Depending on when you last checked their value they could either be worth a lot more or a lot less. Extended isn't even a format anymore.

Dude, I found out Horizon canopy's were going for like 30 dollars and like freaked out cause I have like 10 of them.

More like 60

[chamber]

I mean, what other good 7 drops are even trying to compete though? Sprint? antonidas? They just need to raise the power in that slot across the board I think.

edit: chillmaw, ancient of lore

[chamber]

I'm not even sure it's that over tuned. It could be a 5/5 and still be the best neutral 7. The neutral 7's are just way below where they need to be as a whole.

[chamber]

If you are playing ranked its a legitimate strategy to just concede against some classes or with sufficiently poor hands. Number of games player is a big factor in climbing.

[chamber]

if you have a 10:90 matchup, getting better and making it 12:88 isn't going to substantially effect how well you climb, and that would be a marked improvement. If you are dodging everything that's even a little unfavorable you will never climb cause you'll be dodging like half your games.

[chamber]

Time matters more.

[chamber]

If I'm playing an aggro deck that just loses to control warrior, I can finish multiple other matches in the time it takes me to probably lose to the warrior anyway.

[chamber]

I don't know the current meta. When I played the most (post naxx pre dragons) I ran a budget aggro mage list. had about 10% vs control warrior. Just started conceding when I saw warrior, don't regret it.

[chamber]

Secret Paladin has a lot of interaction imo.

[chamber]

Resource denial doesn't need to be land destruction. It can also be targeted discard.

[chamber]

That's what it was trying to be but I think it failed horribly.

All the cards are designed with a certain mana:card economy in mind, this completely changes that ratio by giving you 5 cards a turn no matter what. Anything that costs 5 or more is basically trash, if you don't get given the option of good cheap cards you just lose.

[chamber]

I finally got enough dust/cards to run a version of freeze mage. Either my budget choices are terrible or I'm god awful with this deck.

[chamber]

I really still don't think mad scientist is necessary. Heres the list

Spoiler:

[chamber]

I mean, I know the cards I substituted. I don't have any adventure cards or I'd be running them, that includes Thaurissan and mad scientist.

[chamber]

Kill them before they draw/play it. Holding back damage to give you better burst doesn't actually accomplish much. They can still just play the reno and gain 13 instead of 18 or w/e it would have been. Do you find the games where they play reno coming down to 5 life? Cause that hasn't been my experience.

The only time as aggro I even withhold damage is against handlock.

[chamber]

I think Paladin is easily the best arena class, probably followed by mage and rogue?

[chamber]

If you want a less random game, don't play hearthstone. There is a lot of randomness in it even outside of very blatant cases like that, for instance, drawing your late game cards early, or only ever drawing early game cards, or etc.

[chamber]

A card game doesn't have to have that problem though, magic and hearthstone do, but you could have cards with multiple modes, 1 for early and 1 for late. Magic even has some effects like this, for instance kicker.

[chamber]

Yogg isn't even that bad of a random effect.

[chamber]

I think Cabalist Tome is an extremely balanced card, that fixes an issue with the game (control vs control coming down to fatigue)

[chamber]

I just don't think 5 mana draw 3 useable cards is some absurdly strong effect. It's inline with pricing in magic. I would expect 4 mana for that effect, but scaling around there is slightly different in hearthstone cause you can't miss lands.

[chamber]

I can't help but wonder if it isn't some massive selection bias that makes you guys feel that card is too strong. You see and remember when they get the card that blows you out off of it, you don't see the cases when they get shit. You also see when they are ahead enough on board to play it, you don't see the cases where it's a dead card in their hand. Obviously a draw 3 is good when you're ahead of board.

The notion that's it's too strong because you can't play around it is silly. If that added as much value as you think it does, people would already be adding random ass spells to their decks. How much of that do you see?

[chamber]

I mean, there are other considerations this early. You might just be running into more mage still. Also they can always nerf things harder.

[chamber]

Arena moving to standard is the best HS news I've ever heard.

[chamber]

There are still likely to be picks like that. But at least they will be different.

[chamber]

There are still likely to be picks like that. But at least they will be different.

I mean, sure, the meta will converge again at some point, but given that no new cards are being currently added, just subtracted, it's reasonable to say that the power level will drop, which is nice.

I agree with your conclusion but not the reason for it. If the old cards were weaker and you subtracted them new decks would be substantially more powerful. I think power levels more or less peaked at goblins vs mechs though. What you said would only be true for a constructed environment.

[chamber]

If you are good you should want interesting choices. It will mean you win more. Everyone knows piloted shredder is a great card. Everyone takes it. No room for an edge in drafting (obviously there are in other areas of the draft but this increases them)

[chamber]

I think the issue with discover is in arena. Unless I'm crazy it doesn't seem to be weighted by rarity there, so common discover cards are a way to get ridiculous class cards at higher rarities.