Super Smash Bros

[Davsto]

new Arms rep looks cool, never played the game (no interest) but I'm genuinely excited. The stage looks hype, heard good things about the music and the fighter looks really unique and that's always interesting and fun. No super hype Mii costume with music this time (vault boy kinda cool but not a fallout man myself)

[PJ.]

Arms > Smash. Please don't ban me.

[Felissan]

also, melee has good netcode now, so that's cool

These are words you'd think come from some weird parallel universe without further context. It goes to show how unique that game's following is.

[PJ.]

2020 is the weird parallel universe

Intentionally incomplete list of fighting games with good(ie. rollback) netcode and the year they came out.

Super Smash Brothers Melee (2001)
The King of Fighters '97, '98, and 2002 (1997, 1998, 2002 respectively)
Street Fight 3 3rd Strike (1999)
Garou: Mark of the Wolves(1999)
Darkstalker 2 and 3 (1995 and 1997 respectively)
Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting (1992)
Super Street Fighter II (1993)
Street Fighter Alpha 3 (1998)
Samurai Shodown V Special (2004)
The Last Blade 2 (1998)

An intentionally incomplete list of fighting games without good netcode (either delay-based solution or a very poorly implemented version of Rollback)



All those games are the latest game in their franchise and have been out for 5 years or less. Street Fighter V literally had an online qualifier for their world championship where the 2 top ranked competitors forfeited the tournament because one of the other players was too laggy literally 2 days ago.Additionally, the newest Guilty Gear(and the Beta for the not yet released Guilty Gear Strive), newest King of Fighters, and newest Blazblue do not have rollback netcode(yet)

(another additional embarrassing note for Samurai Shodown: After next month, the newest title will be the ONLY iteration in the entire series without rollback netcodes. This is a series that includes the first game which was released in 1993)

We live in a universe where the easiest entry in the top fighting game franchises in the industry to get consistent and good online matches are 15 years older(or more) than the most current game in said franchises. This is the bad timeline.

[vonflare]

it's because of the commercialization of the game industry. AAA developers care less about their games than fans do.

[vonflare]

Also, reinstalling dolphin as we speak, I'm getting in on this breakthrough.

Hopefully Slippi adds a rank system that can pair you with people of your skill level eventually, but it'll still be fun to fight randos who might be wildly better or worse than me.

[Haschel Cedricson]

The most important part of the announcement was that Spirit Battles that later got DLC Mii Fighter costumes will be replaced by the Mii Fighter.

Why is this important? Because it means that the Geno suit is still a possibility.

[PJ.]

The most important part of the announcement was that Spirit Battles that later got DLC Mii Fighter costumes will be replaced by the Mii Fighter.

Why is this important? Because it means that the Geno suit is still a possibility.

most important part of the announcement is the the netcode is bad

it's because of the commercialization of the game industry. AAA developers care less about their games than fans do.

I didn't know how to respond to this at the time, but I'm back. I think this just straight up wrong. With the exception of Melee, all the games I mentioned are official versions. The only examples I can think of a game that had bad netcode and got good netcode unofficially are Melty Blood(licensing) and games that are being emulated illegally(like melee or fightcade options). I think the issue with netcode isn't an issue of a developer not loving their game it's an issue of Japanese Devs not looking laterally in the market and/or thinking outside of Japan. I have no reason to believe that Delay-based netcode isn't an okay choice for Japan for a couple of reasons: it's a small region geographically and internet speeds are considerably better due to it being an actual competitive market instead of what amount to regional monopolies. Another thing that supports this is that the lead designer of Tekken seemed to not even know what Rollback Netcode was unless there was some significant translation issues and the lead designer of Under Night In-Birth played Skullgirls for the first time and realized just how much of a better solution that game had compared to his. Along other examples such as fighting games not having universal features across franchises such as access to frame data and tutorials, I'm more lead to believe that there's just a lack of awareness than a lack of caring. It also is a hard problem to fix because of the dangers of group speak and the mentality of social media that you can't always listen to the players. There are many examples as to reasons why, chief among them is probably League of Legends along with Smash itself.

[Davsto]

also (i think) rollback requires quite a bit of processing power on the console end and most devs are already trying to push the limit of what their console can do with their game. plus what i've gathered is that if a game isn't made with rollback in mind it requires quite a bit of base-level tweaking to sort it. obvs it's still a shame and a pain that online in modern fighters is as bad as it is - smash in particular has an online that could be improved in so many ways without going so far as to implement rollback, though a lot of that probably lies on nintendo as a company's end over the smash team.

idk i'm no expert. smash devs could do more for online i'm sure. but i think it's a p heavy stretch to accuse sakurai and co. of not caring about smash.

[vonflare]

The only examples I can think of a game that had bad netcode and got good netcode are [...] games that are being emulated illegally(like melee or fightcade options)

this is my point though. Fans do a better job supporting the games than developers do. Nintendo has tried on many occasions to push melee out of the competitive scene because it takes market share from current year's smash game.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/10 ... ing-at-evo

https://www.polygon.com/2013/7/11/45132 ... bros-melee

AAA devs are becoming less consumer-friendly over time, which of course is their prerogative, but it forces fans of games that lose support from the developers to turn to modding, emulation, and piracy, which will have ramifications throughout the industry.

[PJ.]

You literally cut out the part where I said every game I previously mentioned aside from melee had an official release w/ rollback netcode.

[PJ.]

Also, both those articles are 7 years old, whichwas when brawl was out and Nintendo was maintaining that Smash was a party game only. Nintendo has since turned around on that stance and had balance patches based on competitive play.

[PJ.]

also (i think) rollback requires quite a bit of processing power on the console end and most devs are already trying to push the limit of what their console can do with their game. plus what i've gathered is that if a game isn't made with rollback in mind it requires quite a bit of base-level tweaking to sort it. obvs it's still a shame and a pain that online in modern fighters is as bad as it is - smash in particular has an online that could be improved in so many ways without going so far as to implement rollback, though a lot of that probably lies on nintendo as a company's end over the smash team.

idk i'm no expert. smash devs could do more for online i'm sure. but i think it's a p heavy stretch to accuse sakurai and co. of not caring about smash.

Having an online game thats p2p without a rollback solution is honestly malpractice regardless of processing limitations. Vast majority of players won't be playing in real life but online and a reliable netcode should be top priority.

[Ythan]

Come on Geno. Some people are thinking he's been leaked as the next fighter but it's debatable.

[Not_Mafia]

Give the people what they want

[brassherald]

The next fighter will be the true people's champion: Eliwood.

A sword user from Fire Emblem series. Truly a new concept.

[Felissan]

And to celebrate the SMT5 announcement, Itsuki from Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE will be added next.

[Annadog40]

I just want Bandana Dee

[brassherald]

I just want Bandana Dee

Is that a Fire Emblem character with a sword?

[Ythan]

What's the opposite of hype.

[Gamma Emerald]

rage/salt?

I'm just kinda like "neato" in regards to the new fighter tho

[Andycyca]

Browsing /v/ today was fun

[Felissan]

diamond hoe's mad

[Davsto]

i've never really played minecraft but still have a level of nostalgia for it given how big it was growing up and how a few youtubers i follow have done some fun minecraft series

It's pretty cool though and I'm really excited to see how he plays. And it's hype to get back to the insane 3rd party stuff after a few first parties, plus it's the first full surprise we've had since... Banjo maybe? So it was great to be super surprised as I'd really forgotten he was an option.

[Davsto]

oh and odds are on the new remixes being phenomenal so hype for that too