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Post Post #4250 (ISO) » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:02 pm

Post by PJ. »

Morello/Red Buff are both super important but they aren't versatile. I don't think any of the giant belt items are bad. I think they are the most important item. The negatron cloak is fine but most of the items are situational. I really like ionic spark tho. Shiv is a straight up game winner and goes in every comp. FoN is great but all the other items are good even though they are by definition situational(although a youmuu's off of a dragon has literally won me a game before). I probably should be trying to mix my comps up but I've basically just been jamming 4 Rangers + shivs
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Post Post #4251 (ISO) » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:38 am

Post by mastina »

In post 4249, PJ. wrote:I'm glad you are wrong about everything including agreeing with me cause last patch they literally made the variance lower by decreasing death speed.
Didn't make a difference to be honest. The decrease in my opinion was minimal.
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Post Post #4252 (ISO) » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:03 am

Post by mastina »

Also: have tried the Hextech units.
Short version: their synergy is usually worthless, occasionally detrimental, easily countered, but the units themselves are still worth it, mostly.

The hex bomb hard-counters/nullifies Zephrs, Zeke's, and Lockets (three already pretty worthless items most of the time), but can actually HELP the enemy team if the items nullified included either a giant's belt or tear…
…Because once those items are back online, the unit INSTANTLY gains 200/20 HP/mana. Which is usually actually more dangerous than if they had that health/mana at the start of the fight.

The one exception: if you kill the unit before their items come online, obviously there's utility, but the hextech units themselves are rather shitty at doing that; you need an augmenting synergy. I've found that Hextech + Assassins is stupidly powerful, so if you run Hex-Assassins, you get good mileage out of it, but otherwise it does not help.

THAT HAVING BEEN SAID.
Jinx is the strongest ADC in the game bar none. She's a glass cannon/fragile speedster, sure. She's easy to kill. But even a T1 Jinx with no items can DESTROY the enemy team if she has a tank to protect her for like, five to ten seconds. (That's all she needs.) She needs no mana, either. I legit think she should be 5g with how strong she is right now.

Jayce is a lightning bruiser: good attack speed, good attack damage, and tanky as fuck. His ult's knockback is 50/50: it can knock a unit you need to focus to safety, and can knock units to the corner; in a melee centric comp, corners allow for a bottleneck allowing some units that'd be deleted if surrounded to 1v9. That's bad. But on the OTHER hand, it can knock units you shouldn't focus out of the way, exposing the units you need to kill. Also, it has some CC built in, which is always useful.

Vi has decent stats, and her ability works similarly to Jayce's. It can be detrimental if she 1v1s a unit you needed to focus fire on, but a godsend if she 1v1s a unit she can solokill, especially given the CC effect.

Camille is the only unit who is mostly worthless. Even at T3, her stats are dismal. Her ult is mostly worthless, too. It does have one benefit tho: as the only non-stunning root ability, it HARD counters units relying on moving abilities: Pyke, Warwick, Rengar, Gnar, Shyvana, etc.
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Post Post #4253 (ISO) » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:00 am

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Also. I've found that, if you can get a T2+ Braum and a Leona, that guardians are bustedly broken. For multiple reasons. They're naturally tanky with tons of armor and health, and if you field them next to each other, they give their partner an additional 50 armor. Plus, because it stacks, the units directly in front/behind them gain 100 armor. This works with just about every comp, but is particularly devastating with Knight/Noble/Yordle synergies as it makes units which were already hard to kill even HARDER to kill. (Imagine 6 units dodging half of every attack…who receive almost zero damage when they ARE hit.)

But the actual real danger? They give an easy access to the two strongest synergies in the game, Noble6/Glacial6. You obviously can't have both at the same time (well, in THEORY you could…with level 9 and three force of natures, or three frozen mallets. Which, in practice. Obviously you never could.), but you can get ONE of the two with only 7 units. (That said: Nobles can still use Ashe for Ranger2; Glacials can still use Vayne + Garden for Ranger2 + Noble3.)

In particular: imagine Ashe and Sejuani with an extra 100 armor, making them hard to kill, whilst they spam their freezing ults.

Or imagine two units receiving 175 armor, 75 magic resist, 15 damage reduction, and built in health regeneration. Done with zero items.

Worse: Braum can be a carry unit on his own. Warmogs received a Nerf via capping health regen and via the Overtime mechanic reducing health regeneration, but EVEN WITH THE NERFS it's still an absurdly powerful item on him due to how frequently he spams Unbreakable plus his natural armor. Sure, he deals zero damage…but get him wearing Thornmail? And suddenly he will kill the entire enemy team just by the enemies attacking him. Add in a third item which counters abilities (say, Dragon's claw), and while he's not utterly unkillable at T2, he's pretty damn close to it.

Admittedly, yes. You DP need a T2 Braum (preferably T3) because T1 Braum is worthless. And you do need to give him some ways to survive, e.g. knights, nobles, glacials (to stun enemies so he doesn't get focused down faster than he can heal).

And he is strongest only if you get those items/champions.

So this is not a combo you can reliably pull off every game.

But if you can, and often, you CAN, it's absurdly powerful and the recent patch did nothing to stop it from being strong as fuck.
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Post Post #4254 (ISO) » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:58 am

Post by mastina »

Also also: pretty much the only 6strong synergies in the game that you want are those 3. Glacial, Noble, and Yordle. All other synergies just…aren't worth it.
Brawler 6 MIGHT be worth it …
…If Blitzcrank wasn't currently buggy as fuck, with that massive delay between his pull and his knock up, which utterly ruins him as a unit. Also, brawlers give you a monstrous melee front line, sure, but virtually no back line.

Sorc6 is literally trolling. The powerful part of that synergy is the double mana, not the spell ability power.

Assassin 6 is squishy as fuck. If you don't have a front line to soak up damage and you have no back line to deal damage from a distance (as all assassins are melee units, you can run into the issue of half your team standing around doing nothing while the enemy wails on you), you just die. This is probably the closest to being easily fixed (sayyyy, by Jinx as a backliner and Jayce as a frontliner that can also become a backliner), but Assassins IN OF THEMSELVES as a six man comp are not viable when your opponents can cc you, can tank you long enough to burn through your health, etc. They need help, whereas Nobles/Glacials/Yordles at 6 do not. (Yordles BENEFIT from any given sorcerer for Sorc3--I prefer Kassadin to give a much needed front line--and as I mentioned benefit a lot from Guardians, but you can win the game at level 6 with all Yordles, no need for more, if you get Gnar early. Glacials BENEFIT from Knight, Noble, Ranger, and/or Elementalist, but don't NEED it. Just those six units can win the game, although good luck getting Anivia at a lower level. Nobles BENEFIT from Guardian, Ranger, Knight, etc., but don't NEED them to win. Again, good luck getting Kayle so early, tho.)

Blademasters can work, but have the same issues as Assassins: they're all frontliners, so you can run into the problem of half your units standing around doing nothing. They're also mostly glass cannons; with the exception of properly fed Yasuos and/or Shens, they're squishy and die quickly. That said, via Gangplank, you have excellent synergy with gunslingers, especially if some of said gunslingers also become blademasters.

Gunslinger 6 has the built in Pirate synergy, but while Gangplank and Graves are technically frontliners, they're glass cannons; deal a ton of damage, but are squishy. You need a bigger front line than just them. That said: as mentioned, via Gangplank, they synergize well with blademasters. A gunslinger 6 comp augmented by blademasters is probably one of the highest most reliable damage dealing comps around, but like I said, this is more of a 9+ unit comp.

Shapeshifter 6 would be fine, if not for the issue of with the exception of Jayce, utterly lacking a front line to hold off the enemies long enough to unlock the transformations. Nidalee can't carry past midame; Elise can't carry late game; Gnar can carry if he doesn't get Ccd ever or killed pre transformation. Swaine can carry, but he's a 5g unit. Shyvana can carry, but she's squishy pre transformation yet is a melee unit per transformation. If you luck out on items/units, it MIGHT be possible, but you are PROBABLY going to need front line units beyond what the six shapeshifters offer.

Demon6 reworked is exactly like Sorc6; you get negligible benefits from 4/6 and really only need the two. Also, with no other synergies, just demons, literally the only unit which doesn't fall off late game without being properly fed is Swaine. Eve or Aatrox can demolish a team if fed, but you'd want their assassin/blademaster synergies for that, not their demon synergy. (And, see those sections; they're both glass cannons, who if they don't instantly delete the enemy team, get deleted in no time flat.)

Basically, most synergies you usually use only the 2/3/4 versions of; Nobles, Yordles, and Glacial seem to be the only 3 which can stand on their own as six.

EDIT: Small oversight on my part: Draven is a blademaster, so they are not all melee units. He is, however, rather squishy and is literally your only consistent carry unit. He's great if given the right items, but since literally everyone seems to prioritize grabbing him even if they're not running blademasters (since he's a strong unit even without the synergy), good luck actually GETTING him. He's literally the core blademaster unit tho. You can't successfully run a pure blademaster comp without him.

EDIT2: Now that I think about it, the reason people pick up Draven even when not running blademasters is that he is, bar Jinx, the highest damage dealing ADC in the game. I'm PRETTY sure that 2x takedown Jinx outdamages 2x stack Craven, but the two are neck and neck. Plus, an Imperial bonus'd Blademaster6 Draven definitely outdamages a Gunlinger6 Jinx. (Jinx might pull ahead again if she's made into a blademaster tho.)
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Post Post #4255 (ISO) » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:26 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 4250, PJ. wrote:Morello/Red Buff are both super important but they aren't versatile. I don't think any of the giant belt items are bad. I think they are the most important item. The negatron cloak is fine but most of the items are situational. I really like ionic spark tho. Shiv is a straight up game winner and goes in every comp. FoN is great but all the other items are good even though they are by definition situational(although a youmuu's off of a dragon has literally won me a game before). I probably should be trying to mix my comps up but I've basically just been jamming 4 Rangers + shivs
I DO love Ranger4 as a comp, but it does have some issues. Namely, a high reliance on Recurved bows, when Recurved bows are probably, bar spatulas, the highest demand basic item in the game.

Plus, Rangers are squishy and since literally everyone seems to run assassins, the assassins can usually kill them before Kindred can pop their ult. You can usually position your units with partial assassin protection, but the only full assassin protection is either lots of phantom dancers or putting your rangers in front of your frontliners (so the assassins jump onto your front line instead of your back line).

And while it's not an issue right now due to Blitz being buggy, unless you position your units specifically to counter his pull, he'll take out one of your four carry units.

I do admit tho: when I am playing to win rather than for fun, it's a ridiculously easy comp to execute on, so I use it frequently. It particularly works well with Knights, to help them be less squishy and give you the Phantom synergy to basically instantly delete one of the enemy units.

It does heavily rely on Kindred tho. But yeah, that comp is pretty much the only time I'll have use of Varus (because demons, post rework, aren't really worth investing much in).

And usually Kindred, too, tho Kindred for Phantom bonus can be useful even without Rangers.

I have quite fond memories of spamming Knight6 Ranger4 (with a force of nature or Knights Vow), so it is quite fun to run, it's just that I usually find that I can't get the items and/or units to make it viable. (There's other synergy combos than Knights for Rangers, but Knights are by FAR the easiest to achieve because three of them are 1g units that are readily available.)
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Post Post #4256 (ISO) » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:44 pm

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Idk, I'm only Plat, but I think you're incredibly wrong about which synergies are strong.
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Post Post #4257 (ISO) » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:00 am

Post by mastina »

In post 4256, PJ. wrote:Idk, I'm only Plat, but I think you're incredibly wrong about which synergies are strong.
Maxed 6 synergies with no other units, I am pretty sure I'm right.

When you factor in 6 synergies WITH EXTRA, and 2/3/4 synergies, of course there are other combos which are strong. Those other combos are what I actually use when playing to win rather than playing for fun.

I never remember what these mixed combos are, mind you, but they're things which I notice that I have the units and items to capitalize on. Usually, I intended for said mixed synergies to be temporary while I figured out how to make a late game comp, but then said mixed synergies actually end up being strong enough to not be changed.

Most synergies (pretty much the only one I can think of which lategame REQUIRES being maxed for it to not be worthless is Noble) usually still work well even when not maxed. Imperial is going to land on your carry 50% of the time. Void, while post rework is mostly useless, can still prop up Khazix (who, pre Nerf, had a ridiculously strong ult), Chogath, and/or Reksai (and these two have built in brawler synergy). (Kassadin isn't a good carry unit anymore. He can be if he builds shield faster than the shield is depleted, but nowadays there's too many counters to him, e.g. Cc comps that stun him so he can't build said shield.)
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Post Post #4258 (ISO) » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:00 pm

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6 brawlers + a void guy and Jinx is one of the strongest comps in the game.

Blademasters is strong because of BotRK on Gunslingers so it's not all front liners(especially if you get hella lucky you can hit the 9 thresh hold with 4 gunslingers).

6 knights + 4 rangers is still strong as fuck if you see there are no sorcerers(or only 1 sorcerer)
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Post Post #4259 (ISO) » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:01 pm

Post by PJ. »

You're definitely wrong about void being bad, btw.
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Post Post #4260 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:46 am

Post by mastina »

In post 4258, PJ. wrote:6 brawlers + a void guy and Jinx is one of the strongest comps in the game.
Yes it is.
In post 4258, PJ. wrote:Blademasters is strong because of BotRK on Gunslingers so it's not all front liners(especially if you get hella lucky you can hit the 9 thresh hold with 4 gunslingers).
Yeah, I said exactly that.
In post 4258, PJ. wrote:6 knights + 4 rangers is still strong as fuck if you see there are no sorcerers(or only 1 sorcerer)
Sure is!
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Post Post #4261 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:09 am

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In post 4259, PJ. wrote:You're definitely wrong about void being bad, btw.
Old Void was so much better, applying the bonus to the whole team. Because it only applies the bonus to Void units now, it means you have to make your carries be one of the four Void units.

Kassadin if he could build his shield faster than it being depleted COULD be a carry unit, but it is ridiculously hard to get that shield building faster than it is depleted; usually by lategame he's worthless.

Cho'gath is such a good unit that he has had to be nerfed multiple times and yet is still frequently picked up by players anyway--but the reason he's picked up isn't because of the damage he deals with auto-attacks; the reason he's picked up is because of his ult.

Rek'sai is a mediocre enough unit that she's had to be buffed multiple times. Her stats aren't really the greatest, and while her ult can help her, aside from the knockup effect it is mostly worthless. She's not a BAD unit, she's just not a great unit, either; of the void units she's by far the weakest and of the brawler units she's still one of the weakest.

Kha'zix, as an assassin, is the only Void unit who truly gets mileage out of the Void passive. He doesn't even need Assassin6, and Assassin3 while useful for him is optional. He got hit with a nerf specifically because of the Void units he was one of the strongest in spite of being a 1g unit, and even post-nerf he is ridiculously powerful.

I've seen Brawler 6 Void 3 with the extra void unit being Kha'zix working into Assassin3 as the next synergy be gamebreakingly powerful (they won the game before they could get a third assassin) with like three T3 units and the rest being T2 units--but in that match, Blitz's pull wasn't bugged. If his pull had been bugged that match (like it has been every time I've used him), then I imagine it'd have been less effective.

I do want to run Brawler 6 Void 3 once the Blitz bug is fixed tho, and I admit that even with the Blitz bug it's an effective comp. Just an annoyingly-unreliable one thanks to the Blitz bug. (Get the pull bug and what effectively happens is that Blitz is taken out of combat for like five seconds, the unit he pulls gets in a few attacks before being knocked up, and is as a consequence actually put in a better spot. Don't get the pull bug and Blitz will work as intended and basically delete the pulled unit and even if the unit lives taking it out of combat for the intended period of time.)

The comp is melee reliant, but its abilities are usually good at spreading enemy units out (mitigating albeit not outright preventing the "only half your units can attack" problem) and give you an in to their backline. Unbugged Blitz pull + Rek'sai tunneling behind enemy lines + Vi pulling a unit half way across the map + Kha'zix as an assassin jumping on their backline, not to mention being a comp with a ton of CC (Vi, Warwick, Cho'gath, Rek'sai, and Blitzcrank ALL have abilities which stun; Volibear's the only one who doesn't by default but given that he's a glacial and his ult can trigger the glacial passive if you have the glacial synergy active then he joins them in being able to stun).

Also: Warwick is up there with Garen in being one of the units most likely to "bug out" and not attack enemy units even when by all rights there's nothing which should prevent him from attacking.

Basically, my only problem with the comp is bugs. There's nothing more frustrating than losing matches you should win, repeatedly, because your units are bugged out and not attacking when they should be. Presumably, tho: given time, those bugs will be fixed and when they are fixed the comp will probably get nerfed because it is just too strong otherwise.
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Post Post #4262 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:06 am

Post by Psyche »

I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE GET YOUR OWN THREAD MAKE A TEAMFIGHT TACTICS THREAD AND GOOO
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Post Post #4263 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:51 pm

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This is the teamfight tactics thread.
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Post Post #4264 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:55 pm

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But I'm also done with mastins, so there''s that.

"Blademaster's isn't as strong as nobles/glacial" > "actual Blademaster is probably the strongest team in the game" > "yeah, I said that."

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
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Post Post #4265 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:58 pm

Post by Alisae »

thats mastina for you
she'll wall you out of submission
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Post Post #4266 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:12 pm

Post by PJ. »

Into submission?
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Post Post #4267 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:13 pm

Post by PJ. »

Also the wall isn't the problem. It's the blatant bulls hit of me being like, okay, that isnt rught, "but i said that" and it's like...??
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Post Post #4268 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:17 pm

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In post 4266, PJ. wrote:Into submission?
im trying to reset my sleep schedule so I'm tired as fuck :(

--
In post 4267, PJ. wrote:Also the wall isn't the problem. It's the blatant bulls hit of me being like, okay, that isnt rught, "but i said that" and it's like...??
yeah thats mastina thats the thing she does
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Post Post #4269 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:54 pm

Post by Ankamius »

haha I'm a bronzie
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Post Post #4270 (ISO) » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:38 am

Post by mastina »

In post 4264, PJ. wrote:But I'm also done with mastins, so there''s that.

"Blademaster's isn't as strong as nobles/glacial" > "actual Blademaster is probably the strongest team in the game" > "yeah, I said that."

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Apparently you didn't read what I said. I said that blademasters by themselves are worthless, but when paired with gunslingers are strong as fuck.

You said the same thing.
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Post Post #4271 (ISO) » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:51 pm

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It's best with gunslingers, but it's strong regardless. Cause it's just as good with imperials. It's almost like you don't just build one synergy in this game and you have to use multiple synergies to succeed, so saying thing is worthless by it self is not only typically wrong but also pointless.
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Post Post #4272 (ISO) » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:52 am

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I play this game sometimes still.

It's fun.

I played 3 games since the hextech patch and made top 2 in all 3, and they weren't right after the patch either.

I think maybe it's kind of like magic where when things get more balanced there's more reward for making "fundamentally good" choices like put my tanks in the front, determine what the carry unit of the comp is and put the items there, etc, instead of being aware of specific imbalances and exploiting them repeatedly, like that one week where it was all, you can force t2 volibear even if two other people go for it and if you RFC him you win.

I'm really hoping the game develops into something I can play off and on more reasonably than League. You come back to League, Poppy is now a ranged character, wtf. It's incredibly unfriendly to taking a hiatus from the game.

You come back to magic, there's a bunch of new cards, they're new to everyone else too, all's fair.

If they start doing curated groups of units once there's a jillion units it could maybe be like that. League could theoretically be like that too if they banned 3/4ths of the cast in a rotation but it runs counter to their monetization strategy. That doesn't seem to be a problem with TFT
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"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #4273 (ISO) » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:07 pm

Post by PJ. »

the new champs are technically new to everyone else too...so all's fair.
Sometimes a sandwich is just a sandwich.
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Post Post #4274 (ISO) » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:37 am

Post by Psyche »

am in this situation where i dislike playing the one champion i most reliably win with at my elo (zilean ah it's so easy now but god he's ugly his kit is ugly) but also hate losing so much that i can't work up enough will to spam other champs either

maybe ive cracked the code maybe with this i can finally quit this game
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