Zero Escape

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Post Post #150 (ISO) » Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:47 am

Post by Randomnamechange »

In post 149, Parama wrote:
Spoiler: VLR
how do you even rank K considering they're two separate characters? you should rank Kyle and aKane separately :P
Spoiler:
valid point lmao i was ranking Kyle
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Post Post #151 (ISO) » Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:31 pm

Post by northsidegal »

anyone here play AI: The Somnium Files? feels fitting here rather than creating an entire new thread.

i'm pretty proud that i solved the mystery before it was revealed but maybe everyone did.

also aiba is the best.
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Post Post #152 (ISO) » Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:47 pm

Post by CaptainMeme »

I'm currently playing through AI: the Somnium Files! I think I'm about halfway through but I'm not sure - I know these games tend to have a lot more to them than you think they will!

I'm enjoying it a lot, although I'm someone who enjoys clicking on literally everything and everyone in the scene to see if you get any special interactions. AI really likes rewarding you for doing that! I'm not a fan of how much of the banter revolves around erotica, but I guess you just have to deal with that when it comes to Japanese games :D

Pretty major story spoilers ahead:

Spoiler: AI: The Somnium Files Spoilers
The first 'ending' I got to (which is a locked path, but I still can't get further on it) was one where both Iris and Ota died in the cold storage warehouse. Having to go talk to their mothers about it was a hell of a lot heavier than I was expecting the game to be.
The second one I got to was the route where you discover Ota's mother has dementia. The whole somnium aspect around it (especially being able to put the trash can on Aiba's head for most of it) felt a bit out of place when they were trying to go with something so serious, but it still hit me really hard because of the previous ending I'd gotten to and what she must have been going through after her son's death. Just... Ooof.
After that I haven't really come across anything that's gotten me in the feels, I'm wondering whether I went to the endings in the wrong order because of that. I'm also extremely confused about the plot right now but I'm kinda used to that with these kind of games. Nearly everyone I was suspicious of was killed in the same way in that first ending I got to, so either there are multiple killers or it's someone you really wouldn't expect it to be. Right now I think Iris's mother is potentially hiding something big, and I'm also suspicious of Pewter because of how little he's been talked about despite clearly being a major character.
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Post Post #153 (ISO) » Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:32 pm

Post by northsidegal »

Spoiler: response
you're playing in the same order i played! don't worry, honestly i've seen some discussion about it and thought about it myself and i think that it's the best order to follow, although it's obviously very possible that i'm biased.

any more theories on what's going on? i'm just interested to hear more about what you're thinking so far from someone who's gone down the same path i did. i've seen one other person who played the same route i did and it was pretty interesting hearing her thoughts, especially compared to what i was thinking at the time!

and yeah, it was first getting to mayumi's somnium that really vindicated the whole concept for me.
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Post Post #154 (ISO) » Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:25 pm

Post by Equinox »

How would y'all rank AI: The Somnium Files relative to the Zero Escape games? I want to try it, but Zero Time Dilemma burned me badly.
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Post Post #155 (ISO) » Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:34 pm

Post by northsidegal »

it's a little bit of a different experience. i think a lot of the charm of the zero escape games is both the setting mystery (e.g. where you are, how you got there, why you're there, what's going on, etc) as well as the individual mysteries and fantastical elements that get brought up frequently and keep you wondering. staying very general, i'd say that AI is a lot more focused in its mystery, as well as really being more about the cast of characters (there's also the fact that it's not a "wake up in a mysterious location" mystery. have i said mystery enough?).

anyways, i think it's good, and probably better than ztd. get it for aiba, she's great.
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Post Post #156 (ISO) » Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:56 pm

Post by CaptainMeme »

In post 153, northsidegal wrote:
Spoiler: response
you're playing in the same order i played! don't worry, honestly i've seen some discussion about it and thought about it myself and i think that it's the best order to follow, although it's obviously very possible that i'm biased.

any more theories on what's going on? i'm just interested to hear more about what you're thinking so far from someone who's gone down the same path i did. i've seen one other person who played the same route i did and it was pretty interesting hearing her thoughts, especially compared to what i was thinking at the time!

and yeah, it was first getting to mayumi's somnium that really vindicated the whole concept for me.
Spoiler: very spoilery response
So, right now I'm working on the storyline that involves a frozen Iris corpse that mysteriously disappeared and somehow she's still alive. I think this current line is the one that's confusing me most so I'm just going to ignore it for the moment while writing this :D

A theory I've had from very early on is that Date was the original Cyclops killer - it makes sense with the missing eyeball, the loss of memory 6 years ago, and Aiba's constant references to increasing his medication dosage that he always reacts in a shocked way too. Somehow they wiped his memories and use Aiba to keep him in check (although this doesn't explain how they dealt with him for the first year).
The whole #89 story throws that off a bit, but I think the original theory was close. Date's original Somnium was the scene where Iris' mother gets shot in the shoulder, which was where the assassin sent to kill #89 barged into the house - which indicates that Date is that assassin. I don't think that entirely rules out the possibility that Date is the OG Cyclops killer too because #89's story doesn't seem to entirely match up with the description Pewter gave of the killer.

That... doesn't really help with the new Cyclops killings though, because I seriously doubt Date is doing any of those. It's pretty clear that the mutual connection between everyone and everything is the Kumakura gang, but they don't have a good reason to be committing these murders nor do they seem like the kind of people who would (and yes, I know they're Yakuza :D ). Iris is definitely in on it, I'm tempted to say to the point that she was in on her own death in the cold storage warehouse, given that she took the knife from Ota's mother - but I think she's an accomplice rather than the actual killer. That leads me to suspect her mother, because her mother had a very good reason to be angry at the Kumakuras (them going after #89) and killing off people who worked with them, in their own style, seems like something she might do in revenge. The question is really could she have been able to fight off Ota in that Polar Bear costume with her arm like that, and more to the point, would she really have killed her own daughter with the ice cutting machine?

And I have no idea where So Sejima fits into all of this. He said 'killed by your own father' when he shot me so I assume he's Date's dad, but I don't see how that ties into everything. Overall I think I've still got a loooong way to go :D
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Post Post #157 (ISO) » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:03 pm

Post by northsidegal »

In post 156, CaptainMeme wrote:
In post 153, northsidegal wrote:
Spoiler: response
you're playing in the same order i played! don't worry, honestly i've seen some discussion about it and thought about it myself and i think that it's the best order to follow, although it's obviously very possible that i'm biased.

any more theories on what's going on? i'm just interested to hear more about what you're thinking so far from someone who's gone down the same path i did. i've seen one other person who played the same route i did and it was pretty interesting hearing her thoughts, especially compared to what i was thinking at the time!

and yeah, it was first getting to mayumi's somnium that really vindicated the whole concept for me.
Spoiler: very spoilery response
So, right now I'm working on the storyline that involves a frozen Iris corpse that mysteriously disappeared and somehow she's still alive. I think this current line is the one that's confusing me most so I'm just going to ignore it for the moment while writing this :D

A theory I've had from very early on is that Date was the original Cyclops killer - it makes sense with the missing eyeball, the loss of memory 6 years ago, and Aiba's constant references to increasing his medication dosage that he always reacts in a shocked way too. Somehow they wiped his memories and use Aiba to keep him in check (although this doesn't explain how they dealt with him for the first year).
The whole #89 story throws that off a bit, but I think the original theory was close. Date's original Somnium was the scene where Iris' mother gets shot in the shoulder, which was where the assassin sent to kill #89 barged into the house - which indicates that Date is that assassin. I don't think that entirely rules out the possibility that Date is the OG Cyclops killer too because #89's story doesn't seem to entirely match up with the description Pewter gave of the killer.

That... doesn't really help with the new Cyclops killings though, because I seriously doubt Date is doing any of those. It's pretty clear that the mutual connection between everyone and everything is the Kumakura gang, but they don't have a good reason to be committing these murders nor do they seem like the kind of people who would (and yes, I know they're Yakuza :D ). Iris is definitely in on it, I'm tempted to say to the point that she was in on her own death in the cold storage warehouse, given that she took the knife from Ota's mother - but I think she's an accomplice rather than the actual killer. That leads me to suspect her mother, because her mother had a very good reason to be angry at the Kumakuras (them going after #89) and killing off people who worked with them, in their own style, seems like something she might do in revenge. The question is really could she have been able to fight off Ota in that Polar Bear costume with her arm like that, and more to the point, would she really have killed her own daughter with the ice cutting machine?

And I have no idea where So Sejima fits into all of this. He said 'killed by your own father' when he shot me so I assume he's Date's dad, but I don't see how that ties into everything. Overall I think I've still got a loooong way to go :D
Spoiler: response, random musings
funnily enough, i actually never saw that line from so when i played, only from seeing other people discuss it.

anyways, keep going! i think the right path has a bit of a different tone than the left one, interested to hear more when you get further in. also, this is a bit random, but i felt like the localization was worse in the right path than in the left path. have you noticed anything similar? i can elaborate more if you don't have any idea what i'm talking about. (this is not a spoiler thing at all)
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Post Post #158 (ISO) » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:06 pm

Post by CaptainMeme »

In post 155, northsidegal wrote:it's a little bit of a different experience. i think a lot of the charm of the zero escape games is both the setting mystery (e.g. where you are, how you got there, why you're there, what's going on, etc) as well as the individual mysteries and fantastical elements that get brought up frequently and keep you wondering. staying very general, i'd say that AI is a lot more focused in its mystery, as well as really being more about the cast of characters (there's also the fact that it's not a "wake up in a mysterious location" mystery. have i said mystery enough?).

anyways, i think it's good, and probably better than ztd. get it for aiba, she's great.
Agreed on all of this. It feels like a solid murder mystery detective-y game and stays pretty focused on that throughout, and in general it feels a lot more grounded in reality than Zero Escape. It's still sci-fi and futuristic - but the setting feels normal despite that, and being in this normal city throughout makes you focus a lot more on the characters themselves.

I'm enjoying it a lot, but I also enjoyed ZTD so I might not be the best advice giver here :D
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Post Post #159 (ISO) » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:08 pm

Post by CaptainMeme »

In post 157, northsidegal wrote:
In post 156, CaptainMeme wrote:
In post 153, northsidegal wrote:
Spoiler: response
you're playing in the same order i played! don't worry, honestly i've seen some discussion about it and thought about it myself and i think that it's the best order to follow, although it's obviously very possible that i'm biased.

any more theories on what's going on? i'm just interested to hear more about what you're thinking so far from someone who's gone down the same path i did. i've seen one other person who played the same route i did and it was pretty interesting hearing her thoughts, especially compared to what i was thinking at the time!

and yeah, it was first getting to mayumi's somnium that really vindicated the whole concept for me.
Spoiler: very spoilery response
So, right now I'm working on the storyline that involves a frozen Iris corpse that mysteriously disappeared and somehow she's still alive. I think this current line is the one that's confusing me most so I'm just going to ignore it for the moment while writing this :D

A theory I've had from very early on is that Date was the original Cyclops killer - it makes sense with the missing eyeball, the loss of memory 6 years ago, and Aiba's constant references to increasing his medication dosage that he always reacts in a shocked way too. Somehow they wiped his memories and use Aiba to keep him in check (although this doesn't explain how they dealt with him for the first year).
The whole #89 story throws that off a bit, but I think the original theory was close. Date's original Somnium was the scene where Iris' mother gets shot in the shoulder, which was where the assassin sent to kill #89 barged into the house - which indicates that Date is that assassin. I don't think that entirely rules out the possibility that Date is the OG Cyclops killer too because #89's story doesn't seem to entirely match up with the description Pewter gave of the killer.

That... doesn't really help with the new Cyclops killings though, because I seriously doubt Date is doing any of those. It's pretty clear that the mutual connection between everyone and everything is the Kumakura gang, but they don't have a good reason to be committing these murders nor do they seem like the kind of people who would (and yes, I know they're Yakuza :D ). Iris is definitely in on it, I'm tempted to say to the point that she was in on her own death in the cold storage warehouse, given that she took the knife from Ota's mother - but I think she's an accomplice rather than the actual killer. That leads me to suspect her mother, because her mother had a very good reason to be angry at the Kumakuras (them going after #89) and killing off people who worked with them, in their own style, seems like something she might do in revenge. The question is really could she have been able to fight off Ota in that Polar Bear costume with her arm like that, and more to the point, would she really have killed her own daughter with the ice cutting machine?

And I have no idea where So Sejima fits into all of this. He said 'killed by your own father' when he shot me so I assume he's Date's dad, but I don't see how that ties into everything. Overall I think I've still got a loooong way to go :D
Spoiler: response, random musings
funnily enough, i actually never saw that line from so when i played, only from seeing other people discuss it.

anyways, keep going! i think the right path has a bit of a different tone than the left one, interested to hear more when you get further in. also, this is a bit random, but i felt like the localization was worse in the right path than in the left path. have you noticed anything similar? i can elaborate more if you don't have any idea what i'm talking about. (this is not a spoiler thing at all)
Spoiler: response
I don't think I know what you mean on the localisation front? But I've only done part of one path down the right hand side so far. I did notice that at one point the text said 'Iris was in So's Somnium' but Aiba's VA said 'So was in Iris' Somnium'.
There have been a fair few bugs while I've been playing - torsos disappearing, peoples' eyes floating away from their faces and suchlike - but nothing I'd class as localisation :D
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Post Post #160 (ISO) » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:43 am

Post by CaptainMeme »

One of the face glitches happened at a mildly amusing time:

Spoiler: Not much of a spoiler but game screenshot
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Post Post #161 (ISO) » Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:04 pm

Post by AcRv »

In post 158, CaptainMeme wrote:I'm enjoying it a lot, but I also enjoyed ZTD so I might not be the best advice giver here :D
I mean I'd definitely agree that it wasn't the best in the series, but I think the order you do things in really impacts your enjoyment of it. I'd say VLR is the best and I go back and forth on ZTD and 999 as my second favourite. Gameplay wise I'd go ZTD but storywise I'd go 999.

Spoiler: Major Spoilers for all three Zero Escape games
The first thing I did when playing it with my friends was follow Q Team because we didn't know any of them yet, and when we got to the stand-off I immediately noticed four branches but only three of us in the room. So naturally I tried typing in "Zero" and got the error "Do not know identity" whereas any other error I had got was "They're not here" or "They're dead." So I had figured out that Zero had to be at least accessible to Q Team if not a member of it basically as soon as I started.

Then when we discovered that Phi had a twin named Delta, someone was like "Go back to the stand-off and type in Delta!" and so we did. This was before we had even seen Delta on screen and so we were all very confused and creeped out by the optional scene. If you haven't done it, Sean just turns around to the camera and apologises before shooting you in the face. Then Mira and Eric are like "huh... I can't believe you shot him. What was that about, Sean?"

Seeing that scene BEFORE Delta's spontaneous appearance really helped us be okay with the seemingly out of nowhere twist. Because we were aware that there was
someone
in there with them that for whatever reason we couldn't see, and we knew that (somehow) Eric and Mira knew Sean's real name. Realising the camera angles (and that our death was from first person perspective in that ending) helped it make sense to us. But had we not done that before Delta appeared (which is very easy to have not done) I probably would've felt very bad about that.

That being said Delta wasn't really a satisfying villain, but I thought his reveal fit in well with the way the entire series used the conventions of the game's structure to enable twists.

999 used the DS hardware to conceal the fact that Akane was watching Junpei. The text screen was Akane's description of what was happening, the other screen was Junpei's vision of what was happening. Then the final puzzle you have to turn the DS upside down as you were now Junpei helping Akane instead of the other way around. The rerelease for Steam and PS4 had to change it slightly (instead opting to have "classic" and "advanced" reading styles, one representing each's vision).

VLR used the conventional visual novel format and silent protagonist that is common in visual novels to conceal the fact that Sigma was actually an old man.

So for ZTD to go to dynamic camera angles to conceal that there's a tenth person present didn't seem that far fetched considering the way the series already was hiding truths by using our assumptions about our character based on the game's structure.
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Post Post #162 (ISO) » Tue May 12, 2020 5:00 am

Post by Iecerint »

In post 154, Equinox wrote:How would y'all rank AI: The Somnium Files relative to the Zero Escape games? I want to try it, but Zero Time Dilemma burned me badly.
You didn't like ZTD? Just because some characters were OOC, or something else?

AI is good, but not as good as Zero Escape. For me a major negative was that there's major values dissonance with the player character having "being a pervert" as a personality quirk. On this point, it feels dated even for a Japanese game. It's worth it if you can get through it; I definitely got wrapped up in it and finished it in 2-3 days.
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Post Post #163 (ISO) » Tue May 12, 2020 5:48 am

Post by Equinox »

In post 162, Iecerint wrote:You didn't like ZTD? Just because some characters were OOC, or something else?
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Post Post #164 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:53 am

Post by notscience »

I think VLR is still my overall favorite but ZTD wasn’t bad.
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Post Post #165 (ISO) » Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:59 am

Post by AcRv »

While I defend one of the biggest problems people have with ZTD,
Delta's presence throughout the entire game
, I've gotta say that the story is still pretty nonsensical.
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Post Post #166 (ISO) » Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:31 pm

Post by Equinox »

In post 162, Iecerint wrote:You didn't like ZTD? Just because some characters were OOC, or something else?
Earlier trolling aside, what basically happened was that I played through the first two games back to back to prepare for the third game, and I had created a fairly detailed set of notes about what questions I wanted answered in
Zero Time Dilemma
. If it weren't for setting myself up, I might have enjoyed the game more. Looking back at my reactions in this thread, it looks like my biggest problems were
alien technology seemingly introduced as deus ex machina, a cheesy plot twist that was very characteristic of Kotaro Uchikoshi, and the reveal of Delta's identity
. OOC was a problem, but it paled in comparison to the spoilered bits. All of these things might have been fine with better execution, since it felt like
Zero Time Dilemma
was pulled from the writer's ass rather than the thoughtful games that were the previous installments. From what I remember, though, the third game existing at all was something of a miracle.

Since I have these games on Steam (why did I do that), I might do the three games back to back someday, but
Zero Time Dilemma
happened to hit my general pet peeves about narratives in just the right way. I will probably never play another Uchikoshi game, though. Holy shit.
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