Meuh & Shirou dance pt

[Shirou]

Yes, finaly!

Are you good at fandango by any chance?

[Shirou]

Well, I'm not sure I'm too good enough at it to be teaching someone but I will try to lead my prince.

Be honest, I'm not gonna suspect you if the explanation isn't very logical. Do you seriously suspect Enchant? If yes, why?

[Shirou]

Well, I'm not sure I'm good enough at it to be teaching someone but I will try to lead my prince.

Be honest, I'm not gonna suspect you if the explanation isn't very logical. Do you seriously suspect Enchant? If yes, why?

Fixed

[Shirou]

To give you credit, I guess it's not impossible for Enchant to be a partner that felt like Cakez had more to contribute to the scumteam, but I don't think that's it.

[Shirou]

I'm honestly too tired to play properly due to some stuff and excess posting/typing, but although I want to case my solve before the 3nd of the day, I don't want to give the names yet before I lock my read. I am fine discussing whoever you pick though as long as it's outside Enchant/Midway, I just think it's the most likely t/t pair and wanted to question your belief

[Shirou]

Yeah I will only be able to play on PC on the weekend, it's so tiring to type long stuff on mobile...

About not liking people dropping STD suddenly, it's similar to why you dislike the wagon on VP right?

Do you think it's a scum motivated wagon/There's scum on it?

[Shirou]

I see, yeah it does make sense that the reads on STD are distancing

[Shirou]

But then do you think the push on VP is scum motivated or not? I feel like it kinda is, no one had been too suspicious of him before, it feels like it comes a bit out of nowhere by some players
Regardless of his alignment, I dont see how he looks the worst with the flip right now

[Shirou]

I will probably get back to you tomorrow, good night Meuh

[Shirou]

Ok I had a bit of a change of heart and decided on a bit of leap of faith o consider you town for now even though I don't think i have a very solid case for it. I like you being against VPB wagon, I liked your discussion with TSQ, and also I just want someone to talk about my solve because I am paranoid I am confbiasing myself

Just please dont share yet with the others what I discuss here

[Shirou]

I think your analysis about bussing in pairs is right and actuaĺly it already kinda happened imo: Cakez was "suspecting" StD for the "skirt jacket joke being the reason for pairing up" (which never happened in reality). Ydra already commented this other point but Cakez do typically buss their partner, so I either expect him to have suspected at least one other scum, or the scum agreeing in the PT to not buss too much so Cakez held back.

[Shirou]

To me it feels like Cakez just wanted to throw a scum lean on StD so if there was bussing I do suspect StD/Irrel pair is one of the most likely ones. I need to double check his read on Ari though.

[Shirou]

Now let's talk about VTB wagon:

I can be wrong and need to double check but I feel that the wagon started by TSQ, coincidentally after VPB replied with the answer "Shea" (TSQ) to my "who is the deep wolf?" question. If you pay attention you may notice that TSQ is trying to throw suspicious on most slots (like me after Cakez flip) but especially on those that seem to critic/sus him.

I feel like he's looking to insert narratives looking for a miselimination, he's VERY QUICK to give up on his "push" if it doesn't seem to have support, just like with me at this day start. He's reminding me quite a bit of the TM game where he was scum.

He stuck with pushing VPB right now because out of what he tried to push at day start, this had the most support other than people I think are actual scum (StD/Irrel being one)

[Shirou]

He also never directly defended or town read Cakez but tried to dismiss the arguments for scum!Cakez with a "please God make it stop".

[Shirou]

My lunch break is over now and I'm back at work since holidays are over, so unfortunately expect me to be less active, but I will try to expand more on my thoughts later with you, I am looking forward to your opinion (there's other two names I want to talk about later)

[Shirou]

Oh also note that StD rapidly follows TSQ on VPB wagon. I believe VPB is a diversion wagon fostered by TSQ because some of his other partners are at risk of being eliminated.

[Shirou]

Also yes, when I asked the crowd for a deep wolf I was thinking about TSQ, and what a surprise that he starts a shitfight/wagon to the person that answers him huh?

[Shirou]

Sorry I had to focus today on pushing on the thread, if I had PC I could do both it I will try to get back to you asap

Other than the old Mid/Enc dilemma I think we can agree on most stuff even if for slightly different reasons. United against Ari/Norwe, MariaR and StD/Irrel?

I am just puzzled on why you trust my read on Norwe like that?

[Shirou]

Norwee/Ari I'm a bit happier with flipping
Ari's just kind of been reading like Ari to me, people have brought up a lack of like pushing her ideas through but when I played with her last, she was pretty eager to relinquish power to others so I'm unsure that's even out of place for her, but also I feel like she'd give me more townpings by now, like she did in said past game.
Norwee's just kind of been a meh slot to me? There's a lack of productivity that I'd generally find scum indicative but also Norwee's a player who I'd expect to up said productivity under pressure and he hasn't, which I'm also iffy on
But also I noticed you thought Norwee looked town and I think your take on him is probably better than mine could be so I'd be fine with just sorting him as town for the moment

In terms of I want to flipness, from least to most, I'm somewhere like this:

No

GL/FB
Me/you

Ehh... I guess

VPB/UNOwen
Fireisred/Ydrasse

Sure

MariaR/Furtive
Ari/Norwee

Yes please

Midway/Enchant
STD/Irrel

Before you go to bed, you said Ari seemed the same as when you played with her before? She didn't push her reads? She didn't do much in the game?

[Shirou]

Ah, I meant before I, me Shirou, go to bed.

[Shirou]

I am actually getting a bit scared of being wrong but it's hard for me to think of good reasons to drop the solve other than "what are the chances I caught most of the scumteam just like that?

[Shirou]

Ok so hmm, we were discussing about Ari but she already flipped so...you reaĺly think StD/Irrel is more likely than MariaR him?

I can see that pair being scum yeah given my PoE

[Shirou]

Oh I had forgot a bit how you expanded on Ari/Norwe her3 but now I'm giving it town points as well hmmm...

[Shirou]

I think if we flip MariaR/Furtive, Midway/Enchant and Gimli/STD we probably just win, tbh. Like there's enough scumminess packed into those 3 pairs that I think all scum could be there

Right now the game does feel like it's winnable mhm, I would change one of those pairs for you know who but either way I keep wondering if there's one pair in this game that has scum and will slip under everyone radars to endgame

[Shirou]

I kind of hope Firebringer/GL gets killed because the way FB's been brought up today makes me worried on if I can catch him if he is indeed scum

Yeah I feel like our luck is that he's paired with the IC which will arouse suspicion if he doesn't die tonight.

Otherwise, if he was paired with anyone else slightly towny, I feel like their pair would endgame if scum.

[Shirou]

Sorry if this flips town but if I didn't flip her today I would never do it so

I had to be toxic

Without Owen/VP we never would have gotten this flip

[Shirou]

I do think today was the time to do it yeah, just sucks it went through this way... hopefully some scum in there

I felt like you hated my toxicity? surprised you agree today was the time to kill the slot

but yeah good luck to us I guess, her last message ("good luck") leads me to believe she's town unhappily but...

[Shirou]

Sorry for being petty really regardless of result. I needed confirmation on Maria to move on either way.

[Shirou]

Hm...so she was town after all.

I wonder if there's scum then in VP/Owen, but either way I think you're just town now

[Shirou]

Assuming I'm wrong on GL/Fire as well, they have to be the NK right...?

[Shirou]

It would be surprising if the NK was anyone else after that flip

[Shirou]

Welp my vote is yours for the next flip, where you want it to be at?

[Shirou]

Though why are you lending me your vote?

Huh?

Because I'm the bad guy now so I'm taking responsibility for it. Even if I called out two scum right before getting one wrong and my playstyle makes everyone go against me so I'm just gonna shrug and sheep others for awhile, and I think you're town for suspecting MariaR with me.

I mean imagine it: If you were scum in that situation seeing a toxic TvT fight, wouldn't you play the conciliatory role and say "you guys are being so dumb!" since you knew about it? It's what I feel at least one of the scum may have done.

Either way I don't think anyone wants me doing the same thing to Fire/GL if they are still alive or even gladiating another pair whoever they may be, so like, what else am I supposed to do really.

[Shirou]

Also you kinda basically lent me your vote the past days so, I'm paying you back I guess?

[Shirou]

Ah, the caveat is I'm not voting Midway/Enchant even if you do. If you want to you're kinda alone on that one at least for the first eliminations. If later on everyone comes to that I'll try to compromise but I feel this game is winnable as long as we survive and Enchant/Midway also do. I don't town both players in a pair anywhere else I think.

[Shirou]

If you're confident about Midway/Enchant I'm willing to let them coast by at least for now because I don't really have a confident T/T pair anywhere and I doubt the votes are there regardless

Yeah, I'm unwilling to compromise on them atm because I don't like anyone else too much as T/T unhappily

It's a shame Norwe paired with scum because I had a very confident town read on him by the end.

[Shirou]

Maybe Fireisredsir really is scum considering how this day played plus this. Just a thought.

i think ari is kinda scummy (vibes) and i don't really like meuh's approach to reading her it feels kinda fake to me

i like shea poking around about both of those so maybe towny there

midway is an ehhh but didn't really like meuh's poke there either

enchant and cakez are probably both town

unowen town vibes

sort of townlean ausuka now too

Okay idk if this is just me over reading into tone or something but why are all your reads so waffle sounding

"Kinda scummy"
"Maybe towny"
"Ehhhh"
"Probably town"
Etc etc

I get it's early but I don't see why your stances are so uncertain

[Shirou]

I believe Ydra mentioned how Cakez is a chronic busser and he *did* bus Ari as well, so far seems to make sense for one of StD/Gimli or Fireisredsir to be scum based on his ISO

However also, I found this curious:

yeet

NorwegianboyEE & Aristeia [9]:

GuiltyLion, Save The Dragons, furtiveglance, Irrel, UNOwen, Shirou, Meuh, midwaybear, Ydrasse

[HAMMER]

MariaR & furtiveglance [1]:

VP Baltar

Save The Dragons & Irrel [0]:

fireisredsir & Ydrasse [3]:

MariaR, Aristeia, NorwegianboyEE

Firebringer & GuiltyLion [0]:

Meuh & Shirou [1]:

Enchant

UNOwen & VP Baltar [0]:

midwaybear & Enchant [0]:

not voting [2]:

Firebringer, fireisredsir

[Shirou]

My PoE right now is [Firebringer, Fireisredsir, StD/Gimli] I guess?

I believe Owen is a bit of a 50/50 coin flip just as any low poster. Hard to get a good read on, so may or not be scum, only Datisi knows for sure.

[Shirou]

I could see VP being scum together with Fireisredsir and their arguments being theater as well but well, I believe we'll find out very soon the alignments of VP/Owen anyway, no point thinking too much about it before the confirmation.

[Shirou]

Are you gonna be personally voting for VP/Owen, Meuh?

[Shirou]

Cakez also disliked the StD pair for "the short skirt and jacket" just in case you don't remember (I think you do though), too lazy to quote though.

I think we're roughly in the same pages other than in Enchant/Midway and maybe Fireisredsir, feels nice to mindmeld.

[Shirou]

Do you think scum is leading stuff on the game though? I can't help but feel like scum is just watching in the sidelines if VP is also town

It's a bit biased for me but I know that Me vs Maria was town, and TSQ/Maria vs VP will possibly have been town as well. GL vs Norwe is also confirmed t/t of course.

Like, is scum even doing anything to be honest, Ari certainly was just there...

[Shirou]

Ok, well it's 100% not happening with me, so like how is that less chaotic for you?

If maria/furtive flips t/t, will you leave the dance?

Looking through, this post is yikes.
Gimli's trying to parse the implications of a t/t flip on Maria/Furtive and that could very much be informed
Actually could make sense from an Owen partner trying to see if they should vote on Maria/Furtive in case VPB would then kill their partner. Like this is said right before Gimli decides to vote on the wagon.
Or Gimli could just be scum wanting to see another pair flip as a result of Maria/Furtive dying
I think it's unpaired with VPB at the very least, but I hate it

I don't like the content of Gimli's posts, but the way he passive aggressively treats me...I feel it's a bit hypocritical to treat me as an idiot for getting stuff wrong if you already knew everyone alignments from the start as scum, so I lean a bit town there for this. If I had to guess the scum in STD/Gimli pair, if there's one, gun to my head it's STD just for being less indignated about my push on MariaR.

[Shirou]

Ari wasn't really doing much to push an agenda and well Cakez died too early to do it,

so we might just have a weak scum team that's just not gonna have enough thread presence to stop us from winning

Hahaha, I love how you're kinda confident on us solving this, hopefully you're right! Don't tell them but I'm quite questioning my other reads here in silence.

[Shirou]

This pair mechanic is truly saving us from some dilemmas of "who is scummier between those two scummy players?" mhm.

[Shirou]

Oh. I just realized if Firebringer is scum he's gonna kill either us or Midway/Enchant for being town read I think?

Now that would suck...I was starting to think we could win just by surviving together with them here.

[Shirou]

I used to always hit these walls in games where I lost all confidence and started to question everything I've ever believed and as of late I've managed to shed this habit away and it's nice. It just made my reads worse and the game absolutely painful to play and those moments are part of what made me stop playing for a while.

Oh my! Are you my doppelganger?

I also would get those moments and it did made me reconsider reads that I shouldn't, and really I do think that I got at least a bit better on getting away from that habit as well since the last time I played one year ago, I think in this case I just pushed the read too hard even if I don't really regret it because I feel it was necessary to get this done today.

I was just starting to believe too much on my initial solve being completely correct after the Cakez/Ari flips I guess, my scum reads kept flipping red and it made my confidence grow...but alas! "

The bigger they are the harder they fall

" indeed.

[Shirou]

If we die I'll just be sad...

I don't want to stop dancing with you Meuh!

[Shirou]

It would be funny if you were scum pocketing me though. I'm so deep on it that I'm not sure I see the light anymore if that's the case...

[Shirou]

I'll also share a secret with you though:

I don't think I'm quite out of my "scum range", I could do all that I did so far as scum I think if I truly wanted to, I just think there would be no

reason

for me to do it or put so much effort. As his partner I would know Cakez wanted to play this game a lot, there was no need for me to guarantee his slot would be killed back then just for some town cred, that's a bit too anti-team even for me. Ari could have been a bus but I don't think it would be necessary for me to be so "toxic" with MariaR as well given I was already town read by most at that point. I probably wouldn't be trying too hard to win from anyone in particular here so I think I've been a bit "too much" in this game to be scum, more about the Cakez thing than MariaR in fact.

Good night Meuh, I hope me teasing your paranoia about why I'm talking about this at all works just a little bit but not enough to be detrimental to us winning!

[Shirou]

Hadn't realized you haven't played in a year!! Welcome back to hell

Hey I mean treat this as an opportunity to refine your perspective rather than proof you suck (cause fun fact: you don't)

GYAHHH!~

My prince you're

too

smooth

. Delivering lines like that to this lady's heart repeatedly should be illegal, you know?

For your information I don't think I've signed up to organ donation. Don't simply make my heart yours without permission!

[Shirou]

Hadn't realized you haven't played in a year!! Welcome back to hell

Hey I mean treat this as an opportunity to refine your perspective rather than proof you suck (cause fun fact: you don't)

GYAHHH!~

My prince you're

too

smooth

. Delivering lines like that to this lady's heart repeatedly should be illegal, you know?

For your information I don't think I've signed up to organ donation. Don't simply make my heart yours without permission!

Heehee~

Is my unwavering optimism in your regards too much to handle?

I would never steal your heart, that would be unbecoming of a prince!

I would be more than happy to ask politely for it, however...

I never understood this "pocketing people with PT" before in almost 5 years here, but maybe now I get it mhm...

You're too charismatic right now for me to resist the desire to give up on the remaining paranoia about you...

(that may change before the last elimination though )

[Shirou]

were you scum...?

sigh

[Shirou]

I'm still town
are you?

Meuh my dear this sounds really fake right now...

isn't it like, kinda clear I'm town by this point?