Staplers (Scum PT)

[Lazy Shirou]

fire i hate u this is the unique game i didn't wanna roll scum

[Lazy Shirou]

list mods pls check his rolling method i'm 11040214021401401% sure he cheated just to roll me scum

pls this is a great injustice

reroll

[Lazy Shirou]

Subject: Legends of the Buisness Company [14/14]

luv u shirou

LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES

[Lazy Shirou]

Ok I was gonna be utterly lazy this game to establish, you know, my "lazy alt" meta but I guess I'll try to not completely throw this

I'll probably throw this

don't remember how to play scum

Hope this will be fun at least though

[Lazy Shirou]

I think the hardest part of this game is...me justifying not bussing Norwee

I don't wanna bus Norwee but I'm a bit troubled depending how the flow of the game goes

I think I'll be expected to correctly read him. I would say me and Norwee have a bit of history so far.

[Lazy Shirou]

I think we should avoid bussing unless necessary

No one in mafiascum dot com nowdays give enough town credit for bussing, there's almost always paranoia

just my opinion though

[Lazy Shirou]

I think the hardest part of this game is...me justifying not bussing Norwee

I don't wanna bus Norwee but I'm a bit troubled depending how the flow of the game goes

I think I'll be expected to correctly read him. I would say me and Norwee have a bit of history so far.

Let's not buss. This is an unique opportunity for you to say you 100% know how to read me but it's pure BS.
I'll try to play good to back it up, promise.

NORWE I'LL TRUST MY BACK TO YOU

WE'RE REACHING ENDGAME TOGETHER THEN

[Lazy Shirou]

I think "strongly" town reading each other is a bit too much in the start, I'll try to

progressively

find you guys towny though

[Lazy Shirou]

Okay so contacting Firebringer I discovered that we can sell "scum mystery box" but we don't necessarily need to. It may be obvious to you all but I'm slow and wasn't sure whether we were forced to eventually sell it or not.

I think there's very little merit to selling it right now because depending on the price (particularly if it's too cheap), it can end up confirming people as town, so I think we should be very careful on what to do with it. For example, selling it too cheap could technically make players buy a lot of it and have more abilities than they normally could buy from the shop with their points so far and essentially confirm them as town.

If it's not cheap, and in fact more expensive than other stuff, would it be worth it?

Maybe? As a way to get townies to spend a lot of money if they want to take their shot at WIFOM and figure from what we give them what we actually want to do with the gamestate. Not sure if that messes with us somehow, maybe if everyone ends up buying it and people that still have money to use abilities become suspicious?

[Lazy Shirou]

It's certainly the most interesting mechanic to WIFOM the game with but I'm not sure we can use it too effectively

I'll think about it

[Lazy Shirou]

Hello, i am this person who ruin fun in games.

There's announcement.

I will look who has how much money. Wasting money on ANYTHING is anti-town and will yeld vote atleast from me. Everyone advised to get atleast 500 for endgame.

Team Swap has power to confirm townies/mafia in ELO. Therefore, mechanically speaking, it's only item worth buying, as others are gimmicks/openly trash/useful only for mafia.

Spoiler: Example how it works

There's 3 people in ELO, 1 mafia, 2 town. All in different teams.

Town issues challenge to Town. Any townie in challenge can then confirm self by swapping self with player outside of challenge.

Mafia cannot do this: They forbidden from creating Town+Town challenge by swapping. Only Town can do so. Therefore Mafia can't swap self from challenge, even if they have money.

I still interrogating mod about this, but that's it.

Hm, this is kinda broken

I'm still in the very early stages of processing this but if your teammate is dead this is insanely pro-town and can out the entire scum team in a ELO scenario in some cases

If your teammates is dead you're utterly and completely fucked.

Bussing may be less anti-wincon than actually getting your teammate dead

But you are also always at risk of getting your teammate dead given the challenge nature of the setup sooooo

WAKE UP SCUM TEAM THERE'S A BONKERS TOWN SIDED TO ATTEMPT TO DEFEAT

[Lazy Shirou]

Nah too obvious, Pooky/Gamma will probably OMGUS whoever goes for them if Cakez flips town

[Lazy Shirou]

Wait for the opportunity, I think I can lead on pooky depending on how the gamestate develops

[Lazy Shirou]

Gonna cook the push very slowly so that I blow it all in a nasty 1v1 maybe. Just maybe.

I think people town read emotion so I would put a lot of that later on

[Lazy Shirou]

GREAT NORWE

me/Alisae having different opinions than you is good to disassociate us I guess

[Lazy Shirou]

I'm thinking of murdering Pooky while he isn't calling us scum yet

[Lazy Shirou]

Hmm, dear Fire I have read with attention now the minigame and wanted to do some fun WIFOM but if everyone agrees to just guard I think it's rather scum indicative to do anything else unhappily. I wanted to secretly get points but it seems like it's not viable.

[Lazy Shirou]

I'm just afraid that it doesn't make much sense considering his previous progression for Tbone to hammer Psyche here or so

I wonder if it's a better idea to just stay on my wagon idk, voting together with me on Psyche when you suspect me so hard would be a bit sus I think, maybe?

[Lazy Shirou]

honestly I haven't been paying too much attention to Tbone reads though for obvious reasons :c

I felt like you never mentioned anything about Psyche/Titus but maybe you did idk

[Lazy Shirou]

also Norwee that meme is very funny I wish Alisae was scum with us she's so fun

[Lazy Shirou]

fire i want to buy a mafianizer to turn alisae into scum pls and ty

[Lazy Shirou]

Ok so, we're at nightless 13

9 : 4

We'll eventually have 2 daykills so it can eventually dwindle to

7 : 4

We need 3 miseliminations. For each of us that we lose, I believe we need one extra miselimination to make up for it.

If we lose Psyche, we'll need 4 other miseliminations most likely in:

Psyche > 4/5 out of [Shea/Cakez/StD/HC/Titus]

This sounds like a pretty hard game.

[Lazy Shirou]

@Psyche

i think it would be interesting if you progressively started to think i may be scum with alisae and voted me as i try to engage you in the thread.

[Lazy Shirou]

i'll be honest that i don't believe much in the psyche wagon at this point because it was a bit of a random read from me for the fact PP contributed the least in the entire game before replacing out, but alisae/me have been sharing some interesting stuff in the PT as well and i think maybe it's worth sheeping her

VOTE: psyche

my heart doesn't necessarily scream this is scum at all but /shrug

it's the best i can do atm

open wolfing "oh poor is me I guess I just have to get on this wagon but its probably town"

that's what i want you to think!

doesn't look like a bus at all like that right ~

I don't care if you think I'm town or not. You're not getting me eliminated either way.

if Psyche flips today...that's what we're gonna see/test dear Shea.

[Lazy Shirou]

norwe you need to just vote psyche here titus is not happening

[Lazy Shirou]

welp i'm distancing well here i think

if i flip today i hope that carries psyche/tbone a bit

dunno about you norwe i think you may die

[Lazy Shirou]

uhhh

ok but then i can't protect you for what it's worth

[Lazy Shirou]

i may need to potentially bus then

[Lazy Shirou]

i'll have trouble doing anything other than sticking with psyche for a bit but if we manage to redirect this to Cakez it could be good

def not StD because between Norwee vs StD, norwee dies i think

[Lazy Shirou]

i cannot justify atm voting StD rather than Norwee if it comes down to that given the recent events

i definitely can justify cakez if we manage to get there

p-edit: alisae already thinks cakez is really really bad fwiw

[Lazy Shirou]

like, at worst i think i can lead with alisae on most other mislims, the unique real scum lim in danger atm if psyche flips is norwee i fear

you aren't in a bad spot i think t-bone, like, not a good spot but not a bad one i can definitely lead on a lot of mislim in [Cakez/Shea/StD/HC] with the titus flip

[Lazy Shirou]

if at some point you begin to flip on Alisae after she miseliminates Cakez, I can try to defend her a bit and we gain credit no matter the result

i really think this is starting to look like a scum win but who knows

[Lazy Shirou]

But nobody knows how you think Shirou. I definitely feel like you can manipulate your reads to fit an scum agenda without it being revealing.

but i'm doing so norwee

the plan is to miseliminate all of [Cakez, Shea, HC, maybe StD] after psyche flips, unhappily though you're also in that pool so idk what can happen

[Lazy Shirou]

everyone did exactly what i wanted on Me vs Psyche

i've the perfect narratives to push mislims now with alisae and i do believe she trusts me quite a bit

[Lazy Shirou]

Ya know what
I have a great idea that is totally worth paying 500 coins for.

Let me just get a swap real quick

maybe she'll do cakez...but maybe it's norwee

scary

[Lazy Shirou]

If the three of us just power psyche through now what's our path forward? That might be a viable move.

Psyche > [Cakez, HC, StD, Norwe]

even if norwee is miseliminated that's still 3 mislims and endgame

it's gonna be kinda hard in lategame though, i may need to 1v1 pooky again man it looks like hell

optimally norwee doesn't flip yeah

[Lazy Shirou]

idk if it's better to push psyche now than wait

if we can somehow get one more mislim here before psyche

we're set i think

[Lazy Shirou]

maybe psyche posting and me/alisae pushing them for it would sound more believable for you to switch gears idk

i'm thinking

[Lazy Shirou]

Norwee i think i'll engage u in psyche

try to convince you of it

[Lazy Shirou]

that's not a bad idea tbone

if i engage Norwee and he says after titus flipped town he's unsure about psyche or his other reads, i can try to "convince him" SLOWLY into widening the pool with you/Cakez

gotta admit it's kinda risky though, and not sure alisae ever unvotes psyche here so i would need to be the hammer on Cakez or so

[Lazy Shirou]

don't mention team swapping in the first place though norwee

I am the one that will try to convince you of it eventually for "competing wagons" or something

[Lazy Shirou]

also if we do that don't team swap before me telling you to here or main thread

[Lazy Shirou]

alisae isn't necessarily scum reading norwee yet yeah

i don't think norwee will be quite towny upon psyche flip even if we push there but we can definitely make him look better than rn later on and try to push most if not all other mislims in the pool before him mhm

[Lazy Shirou]

Norwee don't jump on Alisae

not yet

[Lazy Shirou]

let Alisae vs Shea develop and they tunnel each other for a bit

Alisae is kinda town reading you a bit still i think so if you jump on her now it can backfire upon psyche flip

i think it's optimal to only jump on her after her elimination looks more real and concrete, right now it's at the start

[Lazy Shirou]

if HC slot can towntell we are gonna be rather troubled yeah...

[Lazy Shirou]

i'm having so much fun in this game rn

way more than any recent town games

the most stressful thing is worrying about how my play will affect you guys/our associatives, i love getting inside people heads and misleading them on hindsight

[Lazy Shirou]

i don't need to have fear and anxiety of being wrong bc being wrong is all the point of scumming

[Lazy Shirou]

i also feel like we're actively misleading them rather than just hoping "town destroys itself"

tbone/norwee made the titus wagon viable and i'm in psyche w/ alisae so if me/ali gets more credit i can try to push outside of you two

if shea wins against alisae here even if both of you push it i can still use the ali town flip to my benefit and to try killing someone outside of you two still

we're on both sides of the argument and i think that's what is good "theater"

it's better if ali dies theoretically speaking but it doesn't matter that much if psyche is killed bc that will look horrible for shea/cakez/StD

it's like an election where the two opposing parties are corrupted so it doesn't matter who you side with you're still gonna be working towards scum wincon

[Lazy Shirou]

i think depending how this game ends some people may try to blame ali for what's happening here but i don't think that's fair

i'm just the most active scum but she is defending psyche here basically which is also scum

there's no entirely right side on those fights and i think we did a great job dividing town like this

i think there's a bit too few people on my/ali side rn but that's good if ali is the focus of attention today rather than me

shea was right about me

but ali is right about psyche

but neither is right about the entire game

the best gamestate

[Lazy Shirou]

i'm just the most active scum but

she

is defending psyche here basically which is also scum

I meant

shea*

in this "she"

[Lazy Shirou]

i defended ali a bit initially bc it would be weird for me not to but i'll try to not do that much towards it progressively

[Lazy Shirou]

someone else needs to push ali but i think it can't be one of us

shea doubling down and starting a deathtunnel would be cool as well

[Lazy Shirou]

norwee i think u wait to post more to see how thread develops

psyche towning it up here and managing to push alisae would be good as well

[Lazy Shirou]

in fact heck, psyche had alisae in his scum reads

a alisae v psyche 1v1 here sounds kinda good ngl

[Lazy Shirou]

PSYCHE YOUR MISSION IS TO GET ALISAE KILLED

THIS GAME DEPENDS UPON YOU

[Lazy Shirou]

even if you die later for that you'll have been the scum team mvp

[Lazy Shirou]

if Psyche can kill alisae here, we either can lim someone else for the final lim or I can 1v1 psyche saying i'm carrying ali weight and a 1v1 between me and psyche in ELO does guarantee we likely win here no matter what bc i don't think people will think it's a bus at that point

[Lazy Shirou]

HC replacement is also the wild card in this game

i hope he doesn't have any troublesome viewpoints on this

[Lazy Shirou]

You better explain that believably that you reached the conclusion that scum can daykill twice.

hm, it would be kinda obvious to me even if i was town norwee

i discussed this at early pages

[Lazy Shirou]

just passing to say alisae likes you being "stiff" with your vote norwee

[Lazy Shirou]

dunno how much influence being town read by her has though, if psyche flips it's a lot, if she flips idk

[Lazy Shirou]

enchant can also do it

[Lazy Shirou]

if enchant doesn't we could think about it but not sure that's the best option,

let's see how things develop

[Lazy Shirou]

people are getting apathetic

maybe we can do cake mhm

[Lazy Shirou]

i'm scared that i get voted out if cakez flips town though

[Lazy Shirou]

we can't

it's disabled in ELO for a good reason

[Lazy Shirou]

Hmm it says it doesn't work in ElO. But TECHNICALLY SPEAKING, is it ElO if we saved up our daykills?

Norwe...this is what i discussed with pooky before

it would be a bit silly if it didn't count as ELO just bc we didn't use our nightkills

[Lazy Shirou]

Alisae lost a sock and has gone on a journey to find it. Will no longer be here to do Business work. This is important and therefore been granted leave of absence. More Buisness work for the rest of you.

Alisae has requested replacement. Searching now.

FUCK NO

[Lazy Shirou]

FIRST I LIKED MY PT WITH ALISAE

SECOND THIS IS THE SECOND REPLACEMENT AND THAT CAN CHANGE THE GAME DIRECTION COMPLETELY

THIRD AGHHHHH

[Lazy Shirou]

i just do not have the energy to fight someone suspicious on me in alisae slot if that's what it ends up being

it's such a bad position potentially bc now how do i go back in my alisae read

damn...

i also feel bad for alisae bc she was probably really anxious

[Lazy Shirou]

replacements are necessary but they suck so much for scum

you spend the entire game, over 100+ pages manipulating people

and then someone comes in with a non manipulated fresh take upon reading all the pages at once and being able to see things from the past way more clearly

i lost a game i thought i had "in the bag" due to a replacement and i think this may also be the case here

this can become a super unwinnable game depending on who and what those replaces are/do...

[Lazy Shirou]

honestly i'm not sure i feel like playing that much more

i spent so much time slowly getting alisae to have the reads i wanted and now that's just gone

i also liked talking to her...

[Lazy Shirou]

honestly

the real annoyance is that i just liked playing with ali and it was gonna be so fun to see her excited on psyche scum flip

i wish i could be town with her sorry ali

i kinda feel like maybe i should have just pushed harder and killed psyche rather than giving her so much anxiety on being potentially wrong sorry if that's anti-win con i just feel down atm sorry

[Lazy Shirou]

psyche you're doing amazing as well maybe we can get the mislim today

[Lazy Shirou]

would have tone of accusation that the replace-out was strategic

i think that's reachy

[Lazy Shirou]

maybe just be a bit more unsure on your read on her after the replace out

let to see if other people will push it instead

[Lazy Shirou]

sheepsaysmeep has replaced Haschel Cedricson.

maybe we can still mislim new HC

Dunnstral has replaced Alisae.

i may be fucked

[Lazy Shirou]

i'm scared of Dunn for some reason my gut says he may just scum read me for our hood

[Lazy Shirou]

nah i don't think we can daykill people here rn

keep the pool wide i think

[Lazy Shirou]

unless everyone treats alisae slot as totally cleared

i'll try to take a break from this game bc i genuinely feel unmotivated on it now

see ya guys

[Lazy Shirou]

Shirou i’ve got an idea. What if i switch away from you. Then we go hard on Psyche and elim him? That means all the slots that were currently voting you might look bad from it.

Nah i think i can lim psyche without you using your money

it may come in handy later

[Lazy Shirou]

Oh Gamma just town binned you both maybe that's the player we need to help convince Norwee to get Cakez.

but is getting cakez before psyche by this point a really good idea?

pooky town read on me is dependent on cakez flip apparently, i think i may be the next lim if cakez is flipped town and me going down prob brings norwe down

[Lazy Shirou]

i wish there was more mislims in this game

like, if sheep began to act super scummy that would be a life saver maybe idk

[Lazy Shirou]

i feel like if norwe switchs me out enchant may put us back and vote me though that's the problem

it's awkward to get me out of the pool when some people suspects us, right now momentum is back to killing psyche but it may turn backwards if norwe gets me out of the PoE given he's already associated with me

[Lazy Shirou]

i think the best to do may be to engage you t-bone when we're on hammer range and just say that if this flips town i'm prob dying tomorrow and your wish will finally come true or something?

idk

[Lazy Shirou]

Honestly I think if we get one more mislim today we can just power a mislim tomorrow because the 4 of us are not on the same side strategically in the thread so the other players would not be able to organize a lim without some of us. If Cakez is on the chopping block for long enough I think they pull the trigger. But if not we have psyche as a backup plan. Plan A does not need to be a psyche flip. That's plan B imo.

not flipping psyche today is very very sweet yeah i just struggle to see how we flip him and i don't die tomorrow (and therefore norwee next)

it really can't be cakez i think bc pooky thinks cakez is scum and therefore i'm town atm

[Lazy Shirou]

how we flip him

how we don't flip him*

[Lazy Shirou]

if it's what you guys wanna do i can go along although i'll need to be voting psyche until the sheep wagon rises a bit

i do think it's gonna potentially backfire hard though

[Lazy Shirou]

if alisae was still alive i could see convincing 2 townies of not voting me, but atm i don't think i can convince 2 but we can try

[Lazy Shirou]

like i'm fine with you guys plan i accept bc the alternative is gonna be more taxing on me and i'm low energy

[Lazy Shirou]

Also I'm trying to rile Shea up so just 'miss' me calling you scum again if you can.

you mean ignore you?

ok

[Lazy Shirou]

reached around page 35

pretty strongly dont like Tbone

was originally uneasy abt shea but as time progressed I agreed with like 90% of things he said and not half that much for anyone else + norwee just on this page got wolfy enough where I was like screw it, just gonna go with this is t v w

pooky probably villager although I dont liek that outside of his couple rly strong wolfreads, it doesnt feel like he cares to develop any broader worldview at all

I feel surprisingly little else

maybe we're fucked

[Lazy Shirou]

Norwee if I threaten to buy a double vote is that going to be helpful? So far I've only told Cakez about my plan to buy a double vote but I can not if it'll get in your way. Only cause buying a double vote puts Shirou to e-1

it'll look so partnered if norwee switches me when i get close to being limmed

right now votes are piling up on psyche, norwee can switch on a suggestion of mine for competing wagons in a bit if it keeps that way

[Lazy Shirou]

like, switch when psyche is about to go down and that resets the votes i think

[Lazy Shirou]

Nah sheep can't get me, don't worry about it. Plus people didn't start town reading me till later in the day.

Maybe sheep will dig a grave for themselves.

it's not just about you

he also doesn't like norwe and likes shea so i think he would eventually vote when it came down to it

[Lazy Shirou]

this game is pretty hard

nightless is really good for town given it gets so harder if we bus

[Lazy Shirou]

huh

psyche pushing norwe here isn't good though

like

hm this isn't working

[Lazy Shirou]

psyche u are gonna kill norwe lol

[Lazy Shirou]

this game isn't going well

[Lazy Shirou]

i'm surprised no one is calling me obvscum for pushing psyche but ignoring him

[Lazy Shirou]

Just go back to discussing what you find scummy about Cakez and maybe some other players.

there's only sheep and cakez tbone

scumreading anyone else here will turn they against me like std or gamma

[Lazy Shirou]

psyche is actually managing to convince people that norwee is scummy again...i think we need to just kill psyche here by this point.

[Lazy Shirou]

like he's bringing such good points like norwee meta bullshit read on me that norwe just won't have a good explanation for

this is really dangerous atp

[Lazy Shirou]

he can't walk back on that read rn...

[Lazy Shirou]

i'm just murdering psyche i think by this point sorry but like, if norwee goes down i go down next and that looks harder for us to win given it's 2 scum down vs 1? maybe?

[Lazy Shirou]

oh yeah maybe we'll get it without norwee looking bad

i was also trying to hesitate a bit there and here to make people try to reconsider psyche

maybe we're good

[Lazy Shirou]

@Psyche you need to vote me with the excuse of it being either you or me by this point in the day

[Lazy Shirou]

not cross voting here and either of us flipping scum is gonna look weird in the long-term potentially

[Lazy Shirou]

PSYCHE YOU NEED TO VOTE ME WHAT ARE YOU DOING PLEASE

[Lazy Shirou]

we need to make them believe it's either t/t or s/t

never s/s

[Lazy Shirou]

just say if the lim today is between us two, you would rather flip me given i've some associatives w/ norwee and could be scum

[Lazy Shirou]

If you guys dont "care" anymore about this game and are kinda giving up, can i just do whatever i want finally?

[Lazy Shirou]

I knew trying to swap cakez could go so wrong but you guys didnt want to bus so i just shrugged on it

They have almost the entire game solved now though, psyche is suspected and now is associated with Norwe due to the swap, ans tbone is getting into some solves bc he isnt tpwn read enpugh compared to slots like pooky/shea/enchant

[Lazy Shirou]

I knew trying to swap cakez could go so wrong but you guys didnt want to bus so i was okay trying that

They have almost the entire game solved now though, psyche is suspected and now is associated with Norwe due to the swap, and tbone is getting into some solves bc he isnt town read enough compared to slots like pooky/shea/enchant

[Lazy Shirou]

Not to mention i protected norwe so much that right now i am also hard associated

If we are gonna lose this game anyway, can i just try whatever to make either me or psyche endgame?

We arent winning this at all without trying completely changing directions

Whatever i do by this point is too late, but i can at least try rather than whatever is happening right now

[Lazy Shirou]

I kinda knew how to win this game if we kept on my 1v1 with psyche, got two mislims from credit, i bus norwe for a bit more credit, two mislims again

But i didnt want to be the jerk killing my teammates when they didnt want me to, but if you have given up in the game, I can at least try to salvage this unsalvageable mess...

Again I doubt it will work, its too late they already are too close to the full solve and with all credit from a norwee lim, but I can try if I get my PC on time

[Lazy Shirou]

I kinda knew how to win this game if we kept on my 1v1 with psyche, got two mislims from credit, i bus norwe for a bit more credit, two mislims again

But i didnt want to be the jerk killing my teammates when they didnt want me to, but if you have given up in the game, I can at least try to salvage this unsalvageable mess...

Again I doubt it will work, its too late they already are too close to the full solve and with all credit from a norwee lim, but I can at least try if I get my PC on time

[Lazy Shirou]

Sorry fucking mobile Doubleposting

[Lazy Shirou]

My wild recommendation is:

1. Dont kill anyone it will be a scum claim from norwee

2. Norwe you need to stop the AtE towards TSQ it just makes people tunnel you more and look anti-associative with him

[Lazy Shirou]

I only still can see us winning this if first we kill Psyche and then after I gain some credit I am the one to lead on Norwr again and I craft here what kind of stuff you need to post towards me while I push you

Alternatively, if Norwe goes down today while I push psyche, we can hope they think of psyche as a mislim when they flip me

[Lazy Shirou]

Seriously don't post AtE anymore Norwee please

I'll try to threat you into voting psyche in-thread

I do think we can't win this though

[Lazy Shirou]

If we confirm with fire that there is no more minigames after this for the rest of dayphase, we could try shooting someone to get the points though

[Lazy Shirou]

This game just got almost impossible to win...

Cakez is cleared now if norwee flips first

We dont have enough mislims...sigh

[Lazy Shirou]

Well you just telegraphed that surprise so now we're officially screwed we can't fight 1400 coins.

Tbone we need to convince they we are town not try to outspend them

Psyche/Norwe is unsalvageable after the swap

[Lazy Shirou]

We're at 12 alive

We need to get to 7 alive w/ both me and tbone alive, mislim one and kill two at once, that reaches 2:2

2 of those deaths are norwe/psyche already so on total we need 4 muslims

The problem being norwe swap is super anti assistive to cakes so if norwee dies first we're screwed by cakes doesn't die then

[Lazy Shirou]

2 of those deaths are norwe/psyche already so on total we need 4

mislims

Sorry autocorrect I hate phones

[Lazy Shirou]

I dont know how to win this game at ALL if norwe dies first than cakes so what I can see giving us the win with some LUCK is:

Psyche > Cakez > Norwe > sheep/StD > Who fucking knows

I have no idea who can be the final mislim

[Lazy Shirou]

Norwe you need to sheep me on psyche by quoting my post addressing people to vote him and ok'ing it

No blank vote though, write a little little bit

[Lazy Shirou]

Tbone if psyche flips wait a bit to see consensus and then walk back your read on me perhaps if that's what most people are doing

[Lazy Shirou]

Norwe you're likely dying at some point now, mentioning tbone out of nowhere now isn't good antiassociative so be careful

[Lazy Shirou]

The unique way cakes die now is if I kill psyche first, and pray cakes is viable tomorrow

[Lazy Shirou]

Psyche dont vote cakes either its gonna look like norwe/psyche trying to mislim cakez if you do

[Lazy Shirou]

I am retiring from after this game

Maybe playing TM but that's it

[Lazy Shirou]

I'm losing sleep over a mafia game again

Healthy

[Lazy Shirou]

just keep pushing norwe psyche

don't back out by now, it's too late

we are gonna try to disassociate

[Lazy Shirou]

Oh okie i am back to knowing how we can try to win this

We need shea/pooky/gamma alie

[Lazy Shirou]

Ok so, the way we get four mislims here with only two of us flipped is if Norwe/Me goes down while I try to hard dissasociate from Psyche/Tbone I think

If I can associate cakes with me/norwe again you can miselim [Cakez, Sheep, StD, Dunn]

If in ELO asked for a solve I think the play is to paranoia one of Gamma/Pooky with the remaining one of our mislim pool

I dont think people will resist eventually flipping Dunn when both me and norwe flips scum

[Lazy Shirou]

You prob shouldn't push Dunn in the first days though, optimally he's the ELO mislim for max wifom

[Lazy Shirou]

If tbone ever goes down I basically have to trust my dissasociation with psyche is so much that she's votes gamma/poky, that's why they need to be alive imo, together with enchant that has historically voted pooky

[Lazy Shirou]

I meant SHEA in the above not she, autocorrect sorry

[Lazy Shirou]

Psyche I will try to hard defend norwe while pushing you so GRADUALLY begin to suspect me as well please

[Lazy Shirou]

I will try to make people think that it's me/Norwe/Cakez while pushing psyche or so, Tbone I think after I start to defend norwe too much/push Psyche too much, you back down on psyche?

I feel like I don't have enough gas to try controlling the thread for 4 days but if I disassociate from you guys it will be easier for you to kinda coast

[Lazy Shirou]

Nah pooky is miseliminable on ELO perhaps, he doesn't think I'm scum with psyche and that's very helpful, shea thinks the same

[Lazy Shirou]

But I mean up to you later, let me just attempt setting both of you to endgame today and then you can kill people if you want to

Gamma/Shea/Pooky/?Enchant? are all people that dont buy me/psyche being theater though, that can be handy later

[Lazy Shirou]

Yeah pooky could work he is gonna look back in the game

[Lazy Shirou]

He's gonna notice psyche isn't town at some point for norwee not voting him

[Lazy Shirou]

No I doubt shea will reconsider psyche as easily as pooky

[Lazy Shirou]

Sorry I was wrong, we should have killed pooky early because he reconsiders stuff too much I think

He will keep looking back at VCs and protecting ali replace out

I think we kill pooky really

[Lazy Shirou]

If we kill pooky I think our chances of shea just protecting psyche improves

[Lazy Shirou]

We all made mistakes this phase don't worry about it.

I actually wanted all this to happen by this point to be clear

I just keep noticing how pooky checks older posts and that's gonna be the death of psyche

Kill pooky

[Lazy Shirou]

I'm gonna try to make shea think he hasn't been killed because I want to mislim him

[Lazy Shirou]

If someone stops to really think about norwee not voting psyche twice they are at some point figure out psyche was a bus

[Lazy Shirou]

This situation is so funny

[Lazy Shirou]

This game is finally FUN again

It's me vs shea show trying to out guess the other

My first objective was to make him have an easy justification for why pooky died rather than him, I believe he will now think it's likely because I wanted to push/frame him

He can eventually reconsider this though so gotta be careful

[Lazy Shirou]

Trying to pin someone that thinks they have you pinned is so EXCITINGGGG

[Lazy Shirou]

Tbone I recommend not starting shading slots yourself too much, it's not gonna look pretty after they flip town

My hope here is that shea will just lead on most mislims

[Lazy Shirou]

You should probably push me after your push on Shea fails and use the same reasoning. T-Bone has been tunneling you for no reason since day 1 is trying to frame you, trying to save you for an elo mislim by voting out everyone else first, whatever comes to heart's mind. If you don't treat me and Shea the same it looks bad on me later.

I have an idea about what to do yeah

[Lazy Shirou]

I will shitpost so hard if they dont hammer me before I get my PC

[Lazy Shirou]

Tbone dont try to soft save me pls

You're in a good position right now

[Lazy Shirou]

Oh also psyche, if it's not clear you gotta bus me here and think I am scum with norwe that was trying to protect him by pushing you that also wanted him dead

[Lazy Shirou]

Pysche has requested replacement. Searching now.

Oh no...the most awkward moment to rep out...hopefully no one thinks anything of it

[Lazy Shirou]

Getting into a PT with Shirou is a curse

[Lazy Shirou]

am i the problem?

PROBABLY

but still can't help being myself

[Lazy Shirou]

I will shitpost so hard if they dont hammer me before I get my PC

i shitposted too hard although i would have done that as either alignment

you can't just have me not posting much for a few days and don't expect hyper shitposting and theatrics when i return

simply doesn't work

[Lazy Shirou]

ok so hmmm, this is just how i see this game going forward but basically, i think on terms of eliminations to reach wincon we're back at zero technically, but i think the gamestate for us is far from being "back at zero", you seem both to be on the top of read lists due to my/norwe flip here and i think winning now is about knowing how to navigate as town eats itself at some false assumptions like scum were mostly sticking together and psyche being a mislim that i was trying to get to protect my buddy norwe

[Lazy Shirou]

We need 4 mislims in a 10p game. it's basically a nightless micro at this point, it should be easier to control associatives now that the team is halved, i think bussing here is a bit suboptimal now that you're both town read yeah. i think i can see a world where the game goes a bit smoothly for us from now on given the positioning but i guess they can always start to paranoia psyche or something.

[Lazy Shirou]

i planted a few fake associatives lately before going down, and also had the help of some townies planting stuff themselves, so i just also want to leave a few bulletpoints on arguments/things that can be highlighted to perhaps push some people, and also comment on the state of potential mislims.

[Lazy Shirou]

MISLIM POOL

i think that other than Shea and maybe Enchant (which i'll post one thing for some potential paranoia in a potential F4/F3 that has Enchant on it), everyone else is varying degrees of misliminable right now. From top (easiest) to bottom (hardest), i think it's something like:

Cakez
StD
Sheep
Dunnstral
Gamma

Enchant

(F3/F4 scenario only and noticeably harder, i think people may paranoia him a bit more if we reach there as sheep said so already)

i'm not sure you should just push Cakez here though, maybe wait a bit to see where Shea mind is because the game right now feels a bit like you'll just need to play around him as he'll be full of confidence and credit for the next 2 dayphases at least.

[Lazy Shirou]

?BULLETPOINTS? FOR MISLIMS

1.

Cakez

Spoiler:

i think cakez has been all over the place. he was hard pushing to get psyche quickly before getting into norwe together with me and i think that in a vacuum is easy to sell as scummy, but he was also swapped into the challenge by norwee, and voted by norwee himself, so although there's super good arguments for scum!Cakez, there's also some pretty good counter arguments given the swap, but there's a counter-counter argument for the swap i believe:

"maybe cakez was swapped into shirou place because then he would have a justification to stop busing shirou and pile into psyche. the world view that shirou was scum, but psyche was also scum, and norwee was also probably scum feels fabricated". it's a genuinely shocking worldview to hold initially and i've been surprised at some cakez posts even though i know he's town. it's like he's third party or something sometimes.

i was also defending cakez initially at d1 and wanted to swap him out of the challenge.

2. StD

Spoiler:

i think StD has no super good arguments for being scum but no super good arguments against it. in early game amidst pooky vs me he town leaned me:

Alisae and Shea seem town as well as gamma. Shirou too. Makes me feel better about killing cakez for the memez

enchant town

shirou probably town?

i'm running out of town reads tbh so it's gotta be like cakez pengu you freedom norwee someone else?

but he starts to doubt it later and then keeps alternating votes between me and psyche, saying he doesn't believe much in scum me but the lim pool isn't good, and then after norwee swaps me for cakez he says:

if norwee is scum, why did he rescue scum!shirou who wasn't in danger

therefore, is norwee actually town here?

but he always suspected norwee before so i don't think it's good to push a narrative that he was protecting norwee with me or whatever. i think the narrative i would sell is that he was unsure about if he should bus or help me push psyche.

3. Sheep

Spoiler:

Sheep hasn't posted much yet, he's just a slot not many people are hard town reading i think, but his posting technically doesn't seem bad or that easy to push, however there's some weird stuff that HC did, like voting Enchant (which if somehow you're in ELO, depending on people reads on Enchant it could be constructed as a forced bus?) but most importantly this comes to mind:

Hello all, I was going to get caught up and then the site went down for the upgrade and then work yesterday was a shitshow. I am still here trying to get caught up. Shirou, give me a summary of what I have missed please.

HC was suspecting me, but between me/ali/enchant he began to push Enchant, and then later says for his scum read to give him a summary of "what happened"? it's not impossible to try to construct this as a "scum slip" in fact, something that should have gone to the scum PT, but i think that would be reachy/stretchy. it's a really weird post in a vacuum even if i know he's town though

4. Alisae / Dunnstral

Spoiler:

Ah yes. The mislimmable slot that became so town after the rep out. However...the rep out is one of the few things holding they high in the readlists of some, and there's some people doubting it already like sheep/gamma. Shea doesn't think they're scum though, and Shea will for the next days be the loudest person most likely.

however, i'll give one last push to this as i'm being eliminated: i'll pretend as if this game has been frustating, miserable for us scum basically, and feel emotional by saying "i've quite a few regrets here" or something, i think it's dangerous to point that out yourselves, but if forced to, perhaps you can look back at this and propose that maybe there was some sort of disagreement/drama on the scum PT and that resulted in the ali rep out. maybe scum were feeling the pressure since the start of the game with pooky/tbone/shea on us and that made us have arguments about what to do (i think my 180º turn on ali read can also be read as being unsure if we should bus or not or so)

5. Gamma

Spoiler:

i think gamma is an even harder mislim than dunn perhaps. however, she tried to soft defend me before norwee flip and even a bit after by suggesting dunn being the scum rather than me, but most importantly she was also voting psyche rather than me for most of the time in d3 i think, so if the narrative is that psyche was trying to be strongarmed by me to protect norwee, looking on people in the psyche wagon when it was psyche vs me may be "fruitful".

I'M NOT 100% SURE that she was voting psyche between psyche vs me though during all the time. PLEASE DOUBLE CHECK HER ISO before pushing anything.

she also said something like "maybe we should consider norwee/ali/shirou all town because otherwise we just lose" in one post though, i think. maybe doublecheck that as well.

6. Enchant

Spoiler:

i think there isn't much in favor of scum!enchant, but also the main thing people town read him for is his mech plan.

however, i ALSO posted a super detailed mech plan and am a relatively okay player at mech, it's not impossible to craft that I'm the one that created the plan in the scum PT, checked with firebringer first to know if it worked or not, gave it to Enchant and he posted it for the credits since no one would expect scum!him to do a plan like that. i also knew for example that dayvigs counted to ELO even if not used when replying to Pooky about his mech talk, you could use that as leverage that there was talk about mech in the scum PT beforehand.

this needs an extra push though, so as i'm going down, i'll shade enchant a bit in a weird way, it's NOT something to be pushed for before ELO imo, but if you ever get really desperate or in need of a Enchant lim, you may look back to the stuff i posted near EoD today and say "maybe this shade on Enchant here was a last attempt at distancing or so". may be good wifom food.

shea is...just not mislimmable i think, and if he ever is i think it's because of future stuff and not something i can try to help with

[Lazy Shirou]

i believe if shea has wrong reads it's beneficial to let him lead town in the wrong direction around

if lucky people can start to paranoia him, but if not so lucky most of the "blame" and "bad rep" from the mislims would end up on him rather than on any of you guys

if he starts to catch onto you guys, maybe it's a good second kill but yeah..

[Lazy Shirou]

i hope he won't neither be killed or get around to either of you though

i'm not sure he'll come around psyche slot but i do think he may end up suspecting you at some point tbone, hopefully not though. i want to see him alive trying to figure out who were my partners! it's exciting to see if he'll ever figure out that the narrative of me trying to mislim psyche to protect norwee is a intentionally crafted one by me at some point when i realized norwee was going down and even if i bussed at that point it would be rough to save myself.

i feel like the plotting villain and he's like, the detective trying to crack the case of a locked room murder. i want to see him squirm a bit!

but yeah i think that's all i have energy left to say here

GOOD LUCK TEAM

[Lazy Shirou]

At this point I think you can just troll, don't bother posting final reads. It's too late for you to try and treat me like you treated Shea, it'll just look bad if you do it now.

yeah i wasn't quite planning to treat you like shea

just post a final "NK ANALYSIS" stuff that will look pretty scummy but lightly shading enchant to seem like a last attempt at distancing rather than you

[Lazy Shirou]

in the "NK analysis" I'll just comment that again out of Pooky/Shea/Tbone, pooky was the most amenable to me and blah blah blah, which will kinda associate you with the townies that were pushing me

are you fine with that?

[Lazy Shirou]

I'll only get limmed by PoE, not because I got caught.

Yeah

the lim pool is tight in this game

[Lazy Shirou]

i think u are good though and psyche slot is in a pretty good spot so i don't wanna sound optimistic but...i think we have a pretty good shot at winning right now

[Lazy Shirou]

shea hasn't quite posted readlist but sheep did post a upside down readlist

[Lazy Shirou]

just tell me if you're ok or not with my talking about you in the nk analysis though i guess, it would just be a quick comment

[Lazy Shirou]

just this one post please?

[Lazy Shirou]

i think it'll look really bad on enchant at lategame and i think it may be necessary for enchant to look bad later due to PoE

[Lazy Shirou]

nevermind...fine i guess i'll just troll and AtE/act defeated to make them think they have figured out the scum team plan

[Lazy Shirou]

But I think that you freaked out at Shea a few days ago and not me already looks bad for me

i think pushing you too hard would look like distancing later on so that's why i didn't do it but maybe you're right idk

[Lazy Shirou]

Basically I'd like to draw as little attention as possible to what you currently think in thread.

tbone but isn't that a mindset about trying to make me survive today?

my plan was always to die today together with norwee and mislead them into other people though, i could have tried to get one more mislim before going down after norwee or so but if it failed it would perhaps make the PoE even smaller so...

[Lazy Shirou]

but uh yeah i'll just post the nk thing and then mostly troll

[Lazy Shirou]

huh

tbone i've the impression you think i was acting like that towards the norwee wagon to look anti-aligned when it was actually to make people think i was trying to look anti-aligned bc the PoE here is so tight that i genuinely think that me dying and putting you both in a better spot + associating some people is better than me being alive (ali and gamma for example look significantly worse on my flip now) but...yeah sorry i already posted a bit but that was the last

[Lazy Shirou]

like

i don't feel like i'm caught because after they switched norwee and even a bit before i was intentionally trying to make them think i was trying to protect norwee by voting psyche...and it worked

and now sheep already commented on gamma looking kinda bad on my flip, and ali as well, the PoE is getting wider

i don't feel like i'm caught even if i'm dying because literally everything i wanted to happen is happening, but i guess it can see that way on a classical view of not getting caught = not dying

i think this game had too little mislims after the Ali rep out though so i did this as the best i think i could do

but i respect ur take on it yeah

[Lazy Shirou]

Like if that momentum were to happen, I think it would be by you making a convincing AtE case that Norwee and Norwee alone was setting you up. You start trying to set anything else up with any other player and it'll just shrink the mislim pool if we flip you anyway.

hm...tbone what i meant is that i wanted to be the flip today and i know that looks weird and maybe i'm being stupid but i really think it was the play here after norwee was about to go down

i had to bus norwee way before to survive that i think, and if i pushed cakez with norwee before, it would look anti-associative to cakez

i could try to seriously survive the norwe flip but if i failed on my pushes it would look anti-associative and potentially clear people like cakez, std, etc

we can't have everyone cleared at this game so i thought that rather than risky getting more mislims before i go down (i definitely don't think i could ever survive 3 mislims after norwee was about to go down), i would try to make the pool wider and seeing people suspecting Ali again/Gamma for their posts towards me i think it worked a bit (and also, psyche looks way better)

That's like the most dangerous thing to me and psyche's replacement, shrinking the mislim pool. There's nothing you can post at this point that will expand it, because the other players will view you as trying to set up mislims. We have to let the other players set up their own mislims.

true, but i do think that last post towards enchant may help some WIFOM late game perhaps so that's why i did it

i agree with you that i'm not going to seriously post anything anymore, i'm thinking of just waiting more and then suddenly scum claiming and acting ultra defeated to make it seem like the game is going terribly/miserable/dramatic by scum from the start, which may make it easier to push ali rep at some point later yeah

[Lazy Shirou]

that last post was to have anything for u guys to push in enchant if it EVER come down to that

i think that scum claiming with a lot of defeatist AtE that this is a terrible game and etc for me is the best i can do at this point and let the game move on

i could forever wait to see if someone else changes momentum, but i think the ali rep needs a narrative to be pushed, that i can give to you guys if i scum claim as defeated scum before going down

[Lazy Shirou]

telling that we were feeling the heat on us since the start of the game and etc

iindirectly hinting that scum was suspected from the start (ali/me/norwe) and that the people pushing me back were town since i was feeling the heat in the first place (also, pooky town flipped)

[Lazy Shirou]

but idk yeah

[Lazy Shirou]

all done much subtly though to not seem like i'm trying to be manipulative but rather just defeated scum truly

[Lazy Shirou]

got it.