Conception | Design Thread

[MegAzumarill]

ego

[MegAzumarill]

I just realised how useless a Peacekeeper was in a game with no kills.

This setup looks really weird with no kills and very townsided.

[MegAzumarill]

If roleblocker is the only answer to it there's no response if they do die, but im not 100% sure how you are wanting things to interact so we can see.

[MegAzumarill]

I don't really see the advantage of the willbooster either.

I think the intention was the factional actions didn't replace the kills but were supplemental which isn't how it's currently being preswnted.

[MegAzumarill]

Assuming each team also has a factional kill:


Deification - Ascetic IC Triggered Treestump (becomes Treestump after decease)

Introversion - Recluse (Can not be added to any hoods) - Strict Negative ultility, could work as a gated commuter by combining with preservation as well as the recluse ability. Like the flavor this combination gives.

Extroversion - Companion (Adds players to seperate hoods)
Assume this targets 2 players and they both are neithborized to each other? Or maybe this makes a new 1 on 1 hood with them and another player.

Preservation - Non-Consecutive Night Activated Bulletproof

Relation - Parity Cop - 2 targets per night or 1 variation?

Placation - Peacekeeper - I assume this is a kill roleblocker?

2 Devotion - Lover - This has problems for balance. Mainly that town elim -> double scum kill can cause 4 dead town day 2 if a lover dies. That's 5v2v2 which, assuming perfect town actions then on becomes 3v2v1 off another scum double kill, which is not winnable as limming the 1 goes to a 2v2 loss and otherwise could lead to a 1v1v1 loss.

This makes day 1 potential Melo

Oppression - Roleblocker
Sedition - Disloyal Fruit Vendor (Sends flyers instead of fruit)


Liberation - Modified Willbooster (Protects from any number of roleblocks) - I assume this stops ascetic/peacekeeper and in my mind it would also stop my suggestion of introversion. If either member dies this becomes useless which probably should be resolved.

Confirmation - Disloyal Checker - This is literally useless. This slot will always be willboosted as long as liberation is alive so the checker action is completely worthless since you wouldn't know if it would've succeeded anyway.

[MegAzumarill]

I also am skeptical of scum even using the other nonfactional ability. It helps town which in general is the bigger threat to you than the other scumteam until endgame. Benediction is also much weaker than malediction here.

[MegAzumarill]

This theming is really great and it looks for the most part balanced except for a few issues. Most don't really have to be resolved but the setup at least to me feels more cohesive with the following changes.

Changes I would make:

For Balance (Other changes would work as well if you didn't like these, but I wouldn't approve this until these are resolved):

Add Kills for both scumteams- I assume this is intended anyway.

Lovers' combined deaths don't trigger on a nightkill or have some other compensation for the town on a nightkill (like a second elim, but hard to put that in a way that doesn't turn lovers into masons.) Alternatively just change to neighbors and optionally reflavour the roles. Lots of ways you can do this here.

For Balance (but less important):

Benediction is much weaker so this tries to rectify that in flavor.

I would trade the oppression/liberation duo out for passive roles that accomplish similar functions.
I.e.
Liberation for Conviction, being strong-willed (and being able to target through peacekeeper.)
Oppression for a role that makes all investigation actions fail on them, (mysticism? equivocation? not a fantastic parrallel)

Confirmation - This should check whether or not the target performed an action that night.

For Fun Factor (Don't need to be changed but this feels both flavorful and making the game better for players):

Introversion is the only role without any meaningful impact with their role on the setup (no one to talk to, nothing to do, no decisions to make). preservation has at least some decisions but it's not much, but I think both can be combined. So Introversion becomes a non-consecutive commuter (more flavorful that they hide away than be bulletproof). (You can also do X-shot, probably 2 or 3 if you do so.) This does leave a slot open for a town role, which I do have a suggestion for but that's more...

For my Personal taste:

Firstly disloyal really doesn't need to be on the secondary scum roles, so I'd remove it for conciseness.

For the power role Preservation leaves behind, I think another source of role blocking is in order. This leaves both Oppression and Liberation's replacements with 2 meaningful targets their role helps against (peacekeeper + this, confirmation + relation). I think a decent role for this could be Compassion, which is a combined roleblocker- bodyguard (flavorfully gives up their life to protect the other, but prevents them from leaving for their own good. This has utility against scum and for protecting town without being too overbearing. Well that's actually a lie. It's really strong combined with placation if they coordinate so I would gate it to fill X-shot, or non-consecutive, whichever wasn't chosen for Introversion.

[MegAzumarill]

Part of whether a poison over a kill would be ok is dependant on the variant of parity cop (2 target or one target) It would need some adjustment over a kill either way

[MegAzumarill]

Overall I don't think it's particularly fitting for the setup as is but it could be worked into it.

Think of it like this. 4/9 of town roles mess with the actions of scum. They don't need a day's delay on their (now only) source of interference on town.

[MegAzumarill]

It's really strong combined with placation if they coordinate so I would gate it to fill X-shot, or non-consecutive, whichever wasn't chosen for Introversion

About compassion.

Also walk me through your reasoning for the change to attraction.

[MegAzumarill]

I concur it's losing some cohesion.

Alright here's what we got for town roles:
3 Killstoppers, 1 which is gated
A weaker side alignment investigative
IC
Miller
3 private communicators.


What do we give scum to deal with this?

[MegAzumarill]

The answer is probably not protection from the singular investogative, and instead a way to bypass killblockers at least once or twice.

Either that or a way to identify threats seems more fitting given this town lineup.

[MegAzumarill]

You only have 8 invocation roles listed but are stating there are supposed to be 9

[MegAzumarill]

Ima guess the name is Moderation

[MegAzumarill]

Since it was requested:
How does Miller work with parity cop? As a third scumteam or as one of the other 2 or as both?
Why would devotion act if the only effect is adding another way to get themself killed (and possibly a hood)
Obsessive compulsive- wat do

[MegAzumarill]

I assume the last one is can't change targets until their target is dead.

[MegAzumarill]

This seems fairly reasonable currently with that change to devotion, probably ready to move into role PMs if jjh has no objections.

[MegAzumarill]

Captivation should be one shot, compassion and relarion have "concept" instead of role name

[MegAzumarill]

PMs look good, should just need the setup blurb for public information for the rules and the scum PTs with the factional abilities.

[MegAzumarill]

I have no objections and I'll /pass this assuming jjh doesn't see something wrong with it.