Newbie 2114: The Gallery (Dead/Spectator PT)

[Alisae]

I did my best

[Alisae]

Although not going to lie I hope it was town!alisae that said 1152... that comment made me mad

U need to play conftown more diplomatically > egotistically
You know that you and your partner are conftown so basically anything you say is guaranteed to come from town
That doesn’t make you right, but being the person to be like “I’m conftown so do as I say” is pretentious. Talk to people instead of just assuming your solve is right because you must be right.

[Alisae]

Who do you two think perform the wolf kill?

[Alisae]

Also Aureal I’ll tell you
While I did think you were a wolf, I think having the expectation you would try to look for innocence might have been too much?
I completely forgot U were a newer player because I just played with you tbh. So like that might not have been fair but I’ll still stand by you trying to spin andante’s opening posts like “andante is just following the wolf plan posted in wolf pt” as wolfy and I think you approached me from a guilty till proven innocent perspective as well.

I also think the votecounts from the last two days just expose wolves.
If kanna or dragon are villagers this game is over.

[Alisae]

Aureal here I had reads, cared about them, and played off of them. It’s a lot more solvy than the other game where I was a wolf

[Alisae]

Also Aureal I’ll tell you
While I did think you were a wolf, I think having the expectation you would try to look for innocence might have been too much?
I completely forgot U were a newer player because I just played with you tbh. So like that might not have been fair but I’ll still stand by you trying to spin andante’s opening posts like “andante is just following the wolf plan posted in wolf pt” as wolfy and I think you approached me from a guilty till proven innocent perspective as well.

I also think the votecounts from the last two days just expose wolves.
If kanna or dragon are villagers this game is over.

So because I didn't drop my slot reads when replacements came in I was scummy? And not feeling like reconsidering the person who's got their hands wrapped around my throat strangling me to death while insisting they're not strangling me and are in fact an upstanding person?

I didn’t expect you to drop it, but at least try to see eye to eye

[Alisae]

I can understand you being frustrated and feeling that way but the best way to try to engage with people in that situation is to try to look for the innocence rather than the guilt.

[Alisae]

I feel bad for patch they’re going to have a super stressful day tomorrow
They’re def going to get trouble for the hammer. I just hope I helped the situation but I probs get ignored as dead town does

[Alisae]

Anyway we should talk track
Who do you guys think is a good track target here?

[Alisae]

Aureal you'll get better at it the more games you play.
I believe in ya.

Andante who would you track tonight and why?

[Alisae]

Wolves are just Kanna and Dragon

Patch and Bewolkt aren’t playing like a team

[Alisae]

If I'm a tracker, I'm picking between one of 2 targets.

To explain the thought process of a tracker, I think it's best to understand the thought processes for wolves here.

Wolves can either send the townier one of the two or the wolfier one of the two.
We can think of the wolf performing the night kill as the player wolves are most okay with getting caught. I always like to have the player I'm most okay with flipping perform the kill because in the worst case scenario its the least damaging flip to the wolf team as a whole. If you have a wolf that if they're flipped the game breaks wide open, you probably don't want them getting caught.
There's also the reverse where wolves might want to send the townier of the two to just try to dodge tracker, but again, if they get caught, the game is a lot harder now as opposed having the wolfier player perform the kill.

Anyway, targets
Patch - I townread patch, but if I think I'm not catching the wolf kill with my track, I track them because if they're a wolf they're always performing the kill. I would probably submit this track with the intent to try to clear patch over thinking I find a wolf.
Dragon - I think out of {Kanna, Dragon} Dragon is the player that this wolf team is the most okay with having been flipped.

But ya, who do we want to track here?

I don't really care who but these are my suggestions. I'm okay with either of them but if we want to track something else, that's fine. Up to you two.

[Alisae]

They know there's no tracker though. So they could literally just decide to have whoever's most annoyed with Kawaii do the kill, lol.

I think understanding the wolf kill and how to play around/as tracker is important?

Also, I think the idea to give the dead thread a track in a newbie game is more so a mental exercise.

[Alisae]

Like yes wolves don’t need to play around tracker here
But it’s a mental exercise, it’s fun and engaging, no?

[Alisae]

I like it!

How to make the most out of their role, even simpler roles like cop doc rb vig, is I think pretty valuable!
I think there are some players on site that mess up protective actions in particular because I imagine it’s so easy to read the role as “you stop the night kill” over “the person you target will be alive tomorrow”

[Alisae]

That’s really engaging and I think mods who mod newbie games and care about site retention or helping newbies improve should do it!

[Alisae]

Andante wants to be the house on her solve
I want to bet the house on my solve

[Alisae]

I can't wait to scream into a void tomorrow!

[Alisae]

Andante wants to be the house on her solve
I want to bet the house on my solve

Like, at this point, the fact you were town, I'm just like, whaaaaaat?? Cause Town you could have really done some serious solving with me in thread, and like on the Aureal thing, I was like, a lim there makes ZERO sense cause everyone was just going "yeah yeet Aureal!" with no partner associations at all, which had me going "this feels like a town lim... cause she's flipping town then we're just shrugging and moving on..."

so like, I have no clue who scum is... I tried solving with Kawaii.... but was just talking to myself, and it felt like Kawaii was sheeping random people as opposed to coming up with their own reads, sooo so much for a PT friend :/

but if I was right on Patch/Bewolkt.... WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I'm hyped next game. no brakes. death tunnel. hahahaha jk, my ego will be so happy if I'm right, but if we're being honest, at this point in the game, I genuinely don't know who scum is. The town isn't exactly easy to spot in this cause it's "yolo lets lim this person and see what happens" I definitely prefer think "what if they flip town?" "what if they flip scum?" and going from there...

No andante
I’m not going out of my way to reach out to you
I’m going to play more own game and ur going to have to engage with me because that’s what’s best for gamestate

Wolves are dragon kanna. Read my d2 posts, dragons d2 posts, and look at d1 and d2 final vcs

[Alisae]

This Bewolkt and patch theory u have isn’t real
But Dragon and Kanna is very much so real and all ya really need to look at is d2
Just look at what dragon is doing right now

[Alisae]

Patch has been solving all game and Bewolkt has been doing their own thing
Kanna and Dragon are playing like a team and they sped up my wagon because I was speaking the truth

[Alisae]

Like What dragon said about 2 wolves on wagon?
Gone
Thrown out the window

[Alisae]

He’s a wolf so that’s not a genuine thought he was pushing and he was just using status as informed to help

[Alisae]

I’m fairly convinced I ended d2 on the correct answers

[Alisae]

YEP
KANNA IS GOING FOR THE BUS ON DRAGON

YA I SAID THIS IS THE PLAY THAT THEY WOULD DO BTW

[Alisae]

KANNA IS GONNA BUS DRAGON AND SET UP PATCH AS F3 ELIM
YEP YEP YEP YEP YEP

[Alisae]

I can also see them trying to bus and then them trying to set up patch as the endgame elimination at F3. After all, 2 wolves have to be on the Aureal wagon, right?
If it were me, out of Dragon and Kanna? I would always bus Dragon at F5? I imagine Kanna is way less likely to mess up F3 than Dragon is. After all Kanna is a really sweet, understanding person. She likes to argue things with faxs and logic. Dragon however is way more aggressive, way more volatile, newer. Like he's obvwolfing by pushing me the way he currently is. It's a lot more risky to rely on Dragon to bring it home if he decides to play F3 the way he plays this day phase (DRAGON IF HE IS A WOLF WILL TRY TO PLAY TO THIS AND TRY SOME KIND OF DIFFERENT APPROACH BUT LIKE JUST REMEMBER THIS DAY PHASE AND IF YOU FLIP KANNA JUST DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND VOTE IT OFF).

[Alisae]

Its 100% the correct play here for wolf!Kanna, especially because Patch hammered.

[Alisae]

LOOK LOOK LOOK

I felt like I needed to do EVERYTHING in my power to say "PATCH IS TOWN THEY MADE A MISTAKE"
KANNA IS STILL PUSHING THEIR HAMMERS AS SOMETHING A WOLF DOES

[Alisae]

If Kanna was town
they had once chance to show their innocence
and it was by voting dragon instead of me

[Alisae]

Dragon Response to Kanna is fake

[Alisae]

If Kanna was town
they had once chance to show their innocence
and it was by voting dragon instead of me

unfortunately the only person who can call Kanna out on this is dead
sadge

[Alisae]

I think I kind of did but I said a lot of things yesterday

[Alisae]

Like she's just using my posts to her advantage here.

[Alisae]

Spoiler: to alisae

i’m so sorry. you were actually right yesterday about dragon and i shouldn’t have quickvoted you out of emotion. to be fair, I never would’ve guessed that you’d be quickhammered by scum!patch. I wish things were different; I enjoyed working alongside you d1 even though I was wrong. and I really think I would’ve come around eventually yesterday too, I just needed more time. but i see the REAL light now. I can’t say for sure I can avenge you, but I’ll sure try my best!

you didn't quickvote me out of emotion
you quickvoted me because you're a wolf with dragon and you need to speed my elim

you didn't need more time
if you were town who townread me then you wouldn't even vote me

[Alisae]

bewolkt is just going to zero in on patch because they think hammers = wolf
sadge

[Alisae]

they just can't see it as anything but a mistake I suppose

[Alisae]

Oh no don’t quickvote me or my wolf partner
But quickvote any of the other villagers please

[Alisae]

Well one thing is for sure: Alisae is seeing what Alisae wants to see.

Also lol at patch in Turf's postgame saying they're more careful as town than scum if they're actually town here and truly accidentally hammered two town in a row.

Sure ig

[Alisae]

townread me when no one else did, and i subconsciously found myself townreading them back

You need to ask why that is instead of jumping to conclusions right away

[Alisae]

though idunno I can't blame patch like
even if I am a wolf I want them to townread me here and I want to play to that false association

but like if I'm a wolf this game plays out so much differently.

[Alisae]

Kanna is just gonna spin my posts to victory >_<

[Alisae]

I have a hard time seeing how Kanna just doesn't overwhelm the newer players with wally posts.

[Alisae]

im just sadge

[Alisae]

I think because Patch's body of work is town, the only reasonable conclusion I can come to is that its a mistake

[Alisae]

I think cause patch is a newer player something like that might not sink right away

[Alisae]

honestly ig it would be naive of me to ignore the fact that that d1 wagon is a magnet for wolves but if I think there's anyone on that wagon that's voting in good faith its probs patch?

[Alisae]

idunno I just want to empathize with patch here cuz gun to head usually it's town that gets paranoid about being pocketted

[Alisae]

Andante why do you fos both Patch and Bewolkt?

Grab me the posts and we'll talk about it

[Alisae]

I did a quick readthrough, and it's a little hard to focus because i'm at a convention until monday, but i'll do my best to make a coherent post soon to identify my thoughts. I will say though, I felt pretty strongly about Alisae scum, and i'm a little frazzled that they weren't. My immediate assumption is to lean into the patch scum, but I need to read back and remember more things. More to come

This is how most town operate.

[Alisae]

didn't even reads
didn't even engage with anything
didn't even bat an eye at dragon's D2

nope

Well let's see what happens ig!

[Alisae]

I can’t read anymore

[Alisae]

Ig if I ever need a step by step guide on how to steal the Mona Lisa i will take notes from this game ig

[Alisae]

its literally just wolves posting to each other

[Alisae]

This game ends by Elpis voting Patch
it could be today
it could also be tomorrow

[Alisae]

bewo you’re gonna make me cry. I am giving you my heart and you are stepping on it

OH MY GOD
THIS IS A NEWBIE GAME
DIRTY KANNA
DIRTY

[Alisae]

I mean hey this is stuff that you will see on this site and like ig it is best to be exposed to it by someone like Kanna. Kanna is awesome in and out of game but a lot of people on site have different ways to make people feel bad emotionally. My most notable encounters with people on site have been emotional and that kind of play can leave notable impressions on individuals.

I think if town elims patch and it flips town, I think it might open those up who want to learn and improve up to a lot of lessons.

I think there is very easy vote count analysis that could be done to identify wolves here

[Alisae]

Ig I agree. In those situations I just get frustrated because I feel powerless in those situations. I've said regrettable things to town in situations where it's like I townread the person but they couldn't work with me because of suspicion.

tbh it's just these situations are hard for me to handle.

I could also just be comparing apples or oranges here

[Alisae]

Man I think if there is one thing I regret not doing
It's quoting Elpis posts hoping they give him the notification
do it one two or three times
post more to them

I should have really pointed out earlier that wolves play this game to Elpis and spell it out as easily as I could. I think I failed here but I think I did everything in my power to say why I thought what was right is right

[Alisae]

This is the part where the village votes the village!

[Alisae]

Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna

[Alisae]

Kanna, I think I trust your judgement here most at the moment. If you definitively are not allied with Dragon, then I feel strongly that siding with you would lead to the most promising results. Let me know who you want to vote first, and I'll probably heavily consider it. I don't think scum would say the thing about hammering

thank you for trusting me! i promise you won't regret it! as it's late right now, i'll answer tomorrow with a clear head.

They're gonna regret it!

[Alisae]

Alexa play Komm, Süsser Tod

[Alisae]

well fuck i have no idea who's town and who's scum
alisae if ur watching over me from deadchat please give me your blessing

Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna

[Alisae]

Kanna, I think I trust your judgement here most at the moment. If you definitively are not allied with Dragon, then I feel strongly that siding with you would lead to the most promising results. Let me know who you want to vote first, and I'll probably heavily consider it. I don't think scum would say the thing about hammering

since i'm still confident on the dragon/patch solve, i don't really care who we vote out first out of the two. in fact, if you or bewo want to decide, go ahead. i don't think patch/dragon are going to help so it will be us 3. can we all get on board with it?

I am willing to be on board for it. I feel more strongly about patch, so i'd feel better starting there. I'm actually still under the impression dragon **could** be town. Do we want to start up a vote?

IT ALL RETURNS TO NOTHING
IT ALL COMES TUMBLING DOWN
TUMBLING DOWN
TUMBLING DOWN

IT ALL RETURNS TO NOTHING
I JUST KEEP LETTING ME DOWN
LETTING ME DOWN
LETTING ME DOWN

[Alisae]

I wonder who Alisae thinks is scum atm because Kanna's post after Patch's vote proves conclusively that the scumteam isn't me + Kanna.

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Alisae]

go Kanna go!

[Alisae]

Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna Kanna

[Alisae]

It’s a magic chant

[Alisae]

I’m helping her

[Alisae]

U wouldn’t get it

[Alisae]

Why did u rep out

[Alisae]

Sure

[Alisae]

Spoiler: angry commentary on main thread, open at own risk

As I read through page 68, I was going to get to the end and post that I felt comfortable voting dragon, but as I am at the current, now it seems like you've decided you aren't anymore, so if you feel like patch would be the better choice, or bewolkt, I would fall in line with that. However, I don't know that I really have changed my mind personally on the dragon vote, even if I do enjoy his personality, he still has been focusing a lot of negatives at times that make me suspect, which you pointed out.

Dude, you can't scumread someone based on them focusing on negative things! It doesn't work that way! There's nothing suspicious about pointing out scummy things players do, that's like the whole point of the game!

lol

[Alisae]

Expecting most players to be able to point out actually alignment indicative things is not at all easy. I don't think it's something that regular players on site do all that well.
So it's not like we can fault Elpis for not being able to do that. They're new.

[Alisae]

I also think any new player is also just very easily able to get fixated on things that aren't alignment indicative.
Patchs hammers for instance

[Alisae]

Mala is a good sub in for their alignment!

[Alisae]

sure wynaut

[Alisae]

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Alisae]

my read on gamestate is all wolves have their vote in play

[Alisae]

lol

[Alisae]

im losing my edge
I wasn't ever good at finding inactive wolves cause if I think I can find wolf movements I'll assume wolves are playing over not

[Alisae]

MAN
HOW DO YOU COME OUT OF THE GATE PUSHING ME LIKE THAT

Just fucking balls to the wall everything is a wolf post

[Alisae]

You were attacking an IMAGE and saying it was a wolfpost

[Alisae]

I got super tunneled but I swear that's how I would expect wolves to play that day phase but IG I WAS WRONG

[Alisae]

You were attacking an IMAGE and saying it was a wolfpost

You mean that weird eyeroll thing? It gave serious openwolf vibes.

I was baiting you because I knew you would respond to it

[Alisae]

no one gave me benefit of the doubt this game
it felt like I was just damned to hell

[Alisae]

got no one but to blame ig

[Alisae]

You were attacking an IMAGE and saying it was a wolfpost

You mean that weird eyeroll thing? It gave serious openwolf vibes.

I was baiting you because I knew you would respond to it

So the thing with baiting is it can also bait town, apparently.

you responding it is not alignment indicative
you trying to play it off as me not intending to fight and being openwolfy is worrying

[Alisae]

no one gave me benefit of the doubt this game
it felt like I was just damned to hell

I would've given you benefit of the doubt but you LITERALLY BAITED ME INTO VOTING YOU.

That shouldn't stop you from trying to make sure you actually have the right read on me

but heck tho, ya know what
maybe I still play that the same if I actually am a wolf so like idunno
I felt like I probably can't fake my d1 but there's no way for you to know that

[Alisae]

we can both claim victim to confbias ig
confbias is one hella drug ig

[Alisae]

Game is really hard and it's easy to see what you wanna see

[Alisae]

Spoiler: fuck

I quoted the spoiler with the Scum team because am dumb so now I saw the plaintext. Fuck. However I closed it so quickly that IDK if I actually read it correctly or not.
Anyway assuming it did say what I think it said

Spoiler: what I though it said was

Spoiler: Elpis and bewo

So assuming it's them, I kinda thought that was the solve but it didn't make any sense to me why Elpis hadn'tjust pushed for my early lim, so I went for bewo/Kanna, then bewo/patch when

Spoiler: srs spoiler here

I got the out of game information that Kanna was town (but I started townreading her even earlier but thought it didn't make sense because of her own explanation of why elpis conftown).

Spoiler: regarding the srs spoiler

This happened to me in a recent game. I quoted someone in my personal PT and they got a notification about it. The tech people pushed out a fix, but it left out a corner case, hence you getting that notification.

Spoiler: funny spoiler

I was scum using a personal PT instead of the mafia PT because I didn't want to clutter that up with my half-baked ramblings and partially drafted posts for the main thread.

So your assumption about Kanna's alignment was right, but didn't necessarily have to be. I'm not the only player who also uses a notes PT as scum, though that is probably a minority of players who use private notes pts.

In my game, the listmods decided the notification wasn't game breaking, mostly because the player list was a bunch of jaded veterans who wouldn't and didn't make a bet the farm assumption that my having a notes PT meant I was town.

How do you use your notes pt as a wolf?

[Alisae]

and that's how your response felt for me

[Alisae]

its ok look we can prayge that village will turn this one around together

[Alisae]

I didn't know that there was a bug regarding quote notifications in PTs
that's wild

[Alisae]

Imagine being a guy in a freezer

[Alisae]

Mala probably hasn't read up

[Alisae]

let her cook

[Alisae]

the game is ending
its over

[Alisae]

I'd sure hope bewolkt votes patch to end the insanity