TM 2023 | Mini Normal | Mafia PT

[mastina]

Yo, am rolecop-neighbor.

[mastina]

Mastina are you in our hood? You can choose not to speak since none of our role pm reveal hood

A different hood, of VD+Ydrasse+DGB, actually.

[mastina]

@mastina how you read my slot in game depends on the route you wish to go in -> because fmpov i know that you typically scumread me when we are both town.

Tbh, my thought was just basically "yeah I bus Koba here and then let what happens, happens".

Ideally, it's seen as town-town.
If you go down I look better;
If I go down you look better.

With luck, it's the first.

I figure you wouldn't mind me putting my vote on you and calling you scum specifically for the towncred.

[mastina]

any claims or softs in the other hood?

Just me.

[mastina]

Yeah I (cautiously) think things are going pretty well so far!

Ditto!

[mastina]

Hope you’re doing okay mastina <3

I'm really not, but, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(also to answer your neighborhood request: there's not really much going on)

[mastina]

mastina rolecops Malakittens

[mastina]

@mastina important now to probably paraphrase ur hood and see if theres and PR softs

I've claimed investigative and that I'm investigating Mala tonight.

[mastina]

@mastina important now to probably paraphrase ur hood and see if theres and PR softs

I've claimed investigative and that I'm investigating Mala tonight.

why the fuck didnt you consult the rest of us before you did that

I claimed investigative basically instantly to support my belief of the neighborhood being a masonry. That's the town thing both Italiano and Ydrasse have been referring to in our neighborhood.

Our neighborhood is dead, it's legit only two pages long.

I opened by calling the neighborhood a masonry.

Ydrasse, probably sarcastically, called it an all-town neighborhood totally.

Italiano offered to be my mason buddy.

DGB said they're town.

I confirmed my belief of it being an all-town neighborhood.

Italiano asked if I was affirming my belief.

I said the reason I believe it's an all-town neighborhood/masonry is because I am an investigative role. I stated I believe my role is designed to check the neighbors for their alignment.

I specified my preferred order of invests, at the time Ydrasse > DGB >outside.

Ydrasse said that I can check her, and she'll come back town, and that she doesn't care. So, I doubt she's an investigative herself or a confirmable role. Bad kill for that reason.

Ydrasse doesn't trust everyone in the neighborhood.

I stated Ydrasse was now a townread, and I'd prefer to check outside.

Italiano doubted me.

DGB stated Aisa was scum.

Italiano doubted Koba/Mala scum.
I stated I was having rl issues but my reads on them for the time being held.

And that's it.

That's genuinely all.

There's nothing more in there.

[mastina]

did anyone react oddly to your claim because we are definitely looking at a town invest in this setup

No, my neighborhood believes it and in fact their townreads on me come from it.

So, DGB isn't an investigative.
Ydrasse isn't an investigative.

Investigatives would thus be in one of the other two hoods.

[mastina]

I believe using actions on my neighborhood would be a waste.

They're probably not all VTs, but whatever they are, I don't think it's a threat to us.

So rolecop/kill/roleblock should be directed elsewhere imo.

Beyond that, *shrug*

I'm not convinced the game actually is 12 neighbors to 1 VT, since that kind of shit wouldn't pass one of *MY* Normal Reviews (it's too themed), but since I was not the reviewer and it's technically legal, it

could

pass under a different reviewer. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if it's 4 x 4 x something-less-than-four, but we do need to account for the world where it is 4 x 4 x 4 despite how that's too themed imo. (I am not the entirety of the NRG so the NRG is free to disagree with me.)

The 2-scum neighborhood is more wifom on whether the mod would put roles there or not.

The remaining 5 players though likely DO have at least a few PRs. I'd wager at least 2-3.

We're likely at 1 in mine (but nothing threatening),
~1 in the two-scum 'hood,
And then 2-3 in the remaining 5 players.

But this is just speculation.

I don't know what roles to expect at this point yet.
Given how strong our roles are though, the town must have 4-6 power roles of moderately strong power.

The balance is 3-4 moderate PRs vs. goons, so with two strong scum PRs, it's 4-6 PRs of moderately strong PRs.

With nothing likely threatening in strength in my hood,
That leaves ~3-6 strong PRs in the remaining 7 players.
Divided up into ~1 in your hood, and ~2-3 outside.

Math isn't 100%, this is just initial guesswork.

[mastina]

In terms of what roles to expect, it needs to be pretty damn strong ones. Keep in mind that not all of the roles need be strong, but we need to HAVE strong roles.

Doctor, Watcher, Jailkeeper, Vig, Cop, Tracker, Follower, Alien, Gunsmith.
(We could theoretically have a PT Cop as a bit of a troll role, but only if the town has more than one VT.)
Not all 4-6 PRs need be among those strong roles (we do have room for weaker roles like FV), but we should have at least ~2-3 from the list above, thereabouts.

I doubt we have a full Vig because it would remove a lot of the Team from Team Mafia in a game of this size.
I doubt we have a full Watcher because it would be too strong if we lose the roleblocker, especially with another protective.
I doubt we have a full ungated Cop.

So we're likely looking at {Doctor, Jailkeeper/Alien, gated-Cop, Tracker, Follower, Gunsmith} as likely strong roles, numbered ~3 (give or take).

I don't think DGB or Ydrasse are investigatives, so IF they are a strong role, it'd be Doctor/Jailkeeper/Alien.

So that means most stronger roles would be elsewhere.

Just basic setup spec rn tho.

[mastina]

i guess you missed the mala/shirou hood claim then

I did catch there was a claim, not the nature of it. Did they claim more in their neighborhood?

jingle was asking what you think of 2 useless FVs, a pt cop/traffic analyst, a VT thats effectively IC, tracker(possibly gated) and a jk

Scumsided by a large margin. That'd be balanced against a team of Goons, or maybe one weak scum PR.

We have two ungated strong scum PRs. The town needs more than a situational innocent, an investigative clearing that innocent, and padding.

Tracker, JK, PT Cop, useless roles x 2, and then an additional 1-2 strong TPRs is definitely possible tho.

[mastina]

For the record, I also PR read Mala, that's why I want to rolecop her.

(She fits as a town investigation, but I specifically think she's a PR and thus wanna know what kind.)

I can tell you Ydrasse isn't a role that'd be against being investigated and that the neighborhood has no hints, but beyond that I've no PR reads.

[mastina]

TBH, as long as Mala isn’t a tracker or jk, I don’t think that killing her is needed.

Finding and killing those two PRs is a top priority, given their high chance of existence.

[mastina]

Mala's a Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor.

[mastina]

ausuka gotta be the play here

Ausuka is the play, mate.

My votes disincentivize players from voting you and incentivize voting Ausuka.

Eliminating you isn't advancing the wincon.

Not dismantling the Ausuka wagon by joining it, IS.

[mastina]

Eh, possible.

Rn I'm kinda pursuing the route of townreading Ausuka and leaving it open to debate and such so that the reasons for Ausuka scum are better explained and thus more likely to get others to follow, and I could maybe be among them then.

I don't think Ausuka scumread immediately is good, but transitioning TO an Ausuka scumread? That might work.

[mastina]

Also I feel it just needs to be said that mastina you’re doing amazing

Thanks <3

[mastina]

So Ydrasse is the tracker after all it seems.

Now we know!

[mastina]

So we favor killing Ydrasse tonight over roleblocking, right?

If Ydrasse is saved, it's likely by a jailkeeper--thus, no investigative result.
If Ydrasse isn't saved, bye bye tracker, which frees us up a lot.

We continue to use the roleblock to search for other PRs, like the jailkeeper.

[mastina]

Oh that's def the plan if Shirou doesn't have a guilty on me.

It's possible Shirou could be something like a Multitasking-Finder.
We have two Multitaskings on our team and town likely does have an invest outside of the tracker, so it's possible I go down immediately after claiming.
Small chance of Rolecop-finder or something like that, too.

But if Shirou has a guilty on me, that's the type of thing. (Maybe an Informed, but less likely.)

[mastina]

Can I just say it's a good thing I don't really play mafia anymore because let me just say...after this game, people are never gonna trust me again.

Literally everyone will think every towngame I have is me being scum. xD

[mastina]

Oh you're Loud I didn't know, now it makes sense why you claim it the way you did. My b lol
I thought u were vanilla rolecop

Much as I'd like to claim credit for knowing I couldn't hide rolecops...

...The truth is just that I'm a dumbass and didn't notice it, either.
I thought it'd be an effective approach to looking town, which in hindsight was necessary. xD

[mastina]

Btw Koba, who do you want me to target?

It needs to make sense. The targets making the most sense are {Freedom, DKKoba}.

If I target you, though, it needs to match your claim, so if you want me to target you (since I can't target someone else and claim to have targeted you), I need to know what you want my result to be.

But that's only if I target you; I can easily justify targeting Freedom.

[mastina]

Jailkeeper or vanilla neighbor

Jailkeeper's probably a real role, is a bad idea imo.

[mastina]

@mastina i think i wanna be bussed tomorrow, claim me as roleblocker here. sorry.

All good. Sorry for that. <3

[mastina]

Yeah DGB did mention "koba is bold enough to hammer as scum despite it being too scummy to be scum" basically--the hammer was very scum.

[mastina]

result will be multitasking roleblocker btw right?

Looks like I wasn't the only one to forget about having a modifier.

Anyway Koba you're at L-1 with my vote.

I'll leave it up to you if you wanna hammer yourself or if you'd think it'd actually be pro-scum to let the town massclaim and whatnot.

[mastina]

Darn, Mala might've talked them out of one.

Here's to hoping that the town ignores her, though!

[mastina]

BTW, do you think that we should hunt for the JK with our kills, or just kill the conftown?
We can easily justify either action as both make sense and neither condemns me.

And if we hunt for the jk...any ideas who it'd be?

[mastina]

@mastina, I think u need to have your rolecop be claimed x shot? But then again u can claim last is vanilla

Well we know last is vanilla so I can claim that truthfully.

[mastina]

mastina rolecops Freedom;
DeasVail kills Malakittens

[mastina]

xofelf visited me last night.

[mastina]

Also, Freedom is a neighbor.

[mastina]

I think xofelf has a role where they know the role that visited a particular person in the night, but from their posting in our neighbourhood I am pretty confident they trust me.
Ausuka has expressed some mild suspicion of xofelf in the hood and not suspicion of me (yet) but I don't know exactly where her head is at

So, Loud Voyeur?

[mastina]

Well this is weird.

I was targeted by xofelf last night.

There’s nothing about being targeted by a Doctor or by Shirou.

[mastina]

Well this sure looks winnable, even if one of us dies.

DGB can’t jk to victory, Shirou can’t protect against killing Shirou, the Voyeur can only see types of actions not who is performing them so xofelf can’t catch scum, and we killed the tracker already.

Plus as an aside, high chance of the town eating itself up with a JK+Doctor claim.

[mastina]

Oh nevermind, xofelf needs to die because post-massclaim, a role watcher IS a watcher, able to accurately identify which players go where.

[mastina]

BTW we probably just outright lose if you die today.
xofelf will be on Shirou.
I can’t kill xofelf because Shirou will be on them.

I MIGHT be able to justify targeting elsewhere, but if I am meant to be hardbound to a target and xofelf is on said target, either they see my full role including the multitask or they see a lack of visit where a visit should've been.

We have more flexibility if tomorrow is Mylo. We can claim it is a ploy for the win.

But we need scum to live today.

Ideally, one of Shirou/xofelf to die to break the watcher-doc loop, but any nonscum Elim will do.

[mastina]

I just wanted to say that while we're probably still losing this game anyway I'm really proud of this scumgame and not looking forward to the 2+ years of solid continuous eliminations on me in future games based off of this game.

I'm just gonna not even try in those future scumgames since I know I'll be limmed due to this game, and sigh in the towngames being inevitable mislims.

(Listmods please do not take this too literally.)

[mastina]

I think chances of us getting through this are pretty slim but I agree you’ve played this amazingly. Love the flooding of the thread

Thanks for the compliment.
I hate the flooding of the thread, it's an abhorrent strategy that shouldn't be tolerated in games, it is absurdly pro-scum despite how commonly town does it, so not tolerating it should be the norm imo. But *shrug*, I did it, and it gave us a small shot.

I'm gonna first state this;
Our best window to winning the game relies on the town fucking up (mostly DGB).
If they don't, we're kinda fucked.

I will lay out every strategy after I take a nap (too exhausted from today rn to handle it this second), but my current thoughts:

mastina kills xofelf;
mastina rolecops DrippingGoofBall

xofelf

should

be on Shirou--and even if they aren't, then DGB might be. So, can't kill there.

No-killing here is always the wrong decision; a kill on xofelf is

at worst

equal to a no-kill (xofelf protected), but at best actually lands us a xofelf death. Deliberately no-killing rather than incidentally no-killing is a misplay.

That leaves the options as Ausuka and xofelf (technically DGB but we never kill DGB this game--DGB's role isn't a threat to us and DGB's play isn't a threat to us).

For my rolecop, I can target anyone, but who I target determines our best odds.

I'll lay out the math behind each path.

Our chance to win mostly relies on convincing Ausuka to not vote you.

[mastina]

Shit I ran out of time due to exhaustion.

I needed to lay out all the scenarios.

I can lay out the scenarios where I am voted instantly right now though;

xofelf dies, I get limmed:

Best-case scenario; kill Shirou. Leaves you in a 3p lylo, and you need to hope Ausuka doesn't sheep Shirou.

xofelf lives, I get limmed:

Kill Shirou, then deal with xofelf-DGB-Ausuka in 4p mylo.

Neither is great, but your odds are better there than the alternatives, can lay out those if I live long enough.

[mastina]

Wow I thought the town fuckup would be DGB jailkeeping Shirou last night instead of DV.

This is better.

Right now, we

might

stand a chance.

If I go down, then kill Shirou; try to fight the 3p lylo with Ausuka and DGB. Your odds are probably best by pointing out DGB's defense of me, and that DGB+me trying to say Shirou town was to set Shirou up for a DV vote instead of a mastina vote, with DGB not hammering you yesterday because Freedom+Shirou were less mislimmable, or something like that.

If you go down, then kill Shirou; I am left in a 3p lylo where I need to 1v1 DGB because DGB allegedly targeted DV on a night there was a kill and Ausuka delivered fruit. Here I probably lose, but I stand a chance if Ausuka is receptive.

[mastina]

(We really don't, but I gotta try)

[mastina]

I do hope I'm not crossing any boundaries with my push on Shirou.

I'm kinda banking on Shirou being Shirou here--in that the attacks I'm making would be too extreme against most players but that it's not crossing a boundary because Shirou himself doesn't think it is. (Uh, dunno how to word that, basically, tailoring my tone to my audience? That's what I mean. Many players couldn't take it; Shirou can; Shirou actually is well-suited for it; for Shirou, it's a good approach, despite how for most it would be too far.)

I do hope it's seen as just in the game.

[mastina]

I do hope I'm not crossing any boundaries with my push on Shirou.

I'm kinda banking on Shirou being Shirou here--in that the attacks I'm making would be too extreme against most players but that it's not crossing a boundary because Shirou himself doesn't think it is. (Uh, dunno how to word that, basically, tailoring my tone to my audience? That's what I mean. Many players couldn't take it; Shirou can; Shirou actually is well-suited for it; for Shirou, it's a good approach, despite how for most it would be too far.)

I do hope it's seen as just in the game.

Looks like I was both right and wrong.

I was right, Shirou himself doesn’t have an issue with it, so my assumption that he would be okay with it was true.

I was wrong, in that I think Shirou being okay with it still doesn’t make it okay; I did cross a line, which shouldn’t have been crossed. Shirou being personally okay with it doesn’t mean that it was okay.

Anyway, can’t say that I didn’t try, I literally destroyed my town meta by doing something that I've never done as scum before, so in all future games I'm going to have to deal with the accusation of being scum, but I can live with that.

I don’t regret trying, although I do regret that I was too good at mimicking the very worst part of my towngame. That toxicity literally got me banned in prior towngames. Showing that I can do it as scum is impressive, but it honestly shouldn't be something that I do as either alignment.

Basically,

[mastina]

Hit submit on accident, but basically, I feel proud that I actually can do that level of impression of my town game, but ashamed about it being something that I do in any game.

Anyway, when I go down, obviously kill Shirou. Play it by ear when it comes to DGB vs. Ausuka.
My guess is you have better odds of convincing DGB on Ausuka being scum, although tbh we're kinda fucked regardless.

Glad that I got to show off that I COULD do this as scum, but I wanna reiterate that I need to stop playing mafia for both my own mental health and the wellbeing of others. (For instance, if I get a game ban, then I am indirectly badly hurting someone else, because they would be impacted by my ban because site staff doesn’t separate plurality properly for an issue like this. Despite the fact they would never cross any of the lines that I do, they would be collateral damage. I honestly don’t care about if I get banned, because I know that I deserve it and it would arguably be a blessing. But I do care about THEM, so my main reason for not wanting to get banned is so that they don’t suffer due to my irresponsibility.)