Micro 1083: Garlic Bread Heist Dead/Spectator PT

[anahit]

thankyou!

hi ausuka hi datisi hi meuh hi ydrasse +)

[anahit]

Spectator Challenge 1

Well, calling it a 'challenge' might be a bit much - but I'd be interested to hear what people think the setup might be! Obviously I don't expect anyone to actually get the setup, since there are so many possibilities, but it'd be fun to see, like, what kind of setup people think this game will have.

so we know it is 7:2, non-bastard, and that it is "simple and straightforward in terms of the setup and mechanics"

which the mechanics bit is potentially relevant to keep in mind as could be some sort of general game mechanic,

but eh, i do not think ausuka would be so likely to issue this challenge if she was about to reveal some mechanic that the game hinged upon at daystart, and! she asked us about the setup specifically

anyway fitting what we know of the theme it'd be 7 mafiascum users planning the heist of garlic bread, and 2 security guards going undercover as mafiascum users trying to infiltrate this heist?

which then of course leads one to wonder how the security guards of a supermarket knew this heist was being planned in the first place and why they thought infiltrating it was the best approach

well, hm, it seems plausible that there is a mafiascum user who works at a supermarket and upon seeing a garlic bread heist being planned suggested the supermarket they worked at as the target

it would then seem likely that it isn't to prevent the heist but rather to participate in it and then steal the garlic bread for themselves while still identifying the other mafiascum users as the "culprits"

which could make sense with the podcast format as i think it would be a more notable story if garlic bread was indeed successfully heisted and! importantly it would work for storytelling purposes regardless of the actual outcome of the game

and i suppose there are a lot of games i know ausuka to be familiar with which could have inspired this game in some way but it seems too hard to judge what may be relevant there needle in a haystack et cetera

for some reason this game made me think of the sheriff of nottingham game and i could in theory see a grocery list or receipt type mechanic and easy applications to a mafia game and there was that recipes game in team mafia which could have inspired it but the general problem there is that... everyone already knows what is in the process of being stolen, so that seems rather unlikely

i guess i also thought of that tv show where three women rob a supermarket but end up with way more money than they expected and end up laundering money, though i have watched very little of it and i am not really sure of the parallels beyond stealing from a supermarket

none of which has really gotten me any closer to figuring out the setup here, hmhmhm,

[anahit]

I probably shouldn't say what is or isn't correct but I had fun reading that!

yea i think maybe my answer for right now is

i dunno

but i am glad to have entertained you a bit!!!

[anahit]

suspicious how baltar, hellbooks, alisae, tsq, and xof haven't posted anything. theres probably at least one scum in this group.

i give it ~91% chance

shouldn't this be ~89%? (assuming tris was just taking the random chance of that group containing at least 1 mafia)

or am i doing the math wrong here

like population size 8 (9 minus tris), mafia in population 2, sample size 5, mafias in sample greater than or equal to 1, hypergeo distribution calc go!

89.285

or am i doing this altogether wrong

wish i knew like, something/anything about maths

like i only know the above from doing so for draws in card games like to help with deck construction and to know the odds for outs in various situations but that's how i would try solve this so i wonder if that is not applicable here for some reason

[anahit]

i guess it's also possible that tris added a bit to the percentage due to believing it was slightly more likely than random

[anahit]

i love hellbooks that's it submit post

the traitor one is really good too!

[anahit]

how to villager post

[anahit]

do not understand why games have to devolve into this +(

like it's possible to take the game seriously (or whatever, don't fully understand why one cannot take the game unseriously and still do the same but anyway) and try very very hard to solve it or to fool the towms without any of

this

yeah

i guess i just really don't get it and it's such a frequent occurrence and makes the game largely unreadable/unplayable </3

[anahit]

and i guess maybe i don't get to say anything as someone who was largely responsible for the situation in that pt with titus sircakez and ydrasse near the end of slaughter hour which led to both ydrasse and i crying out of frustration like i understand my hands are dirty as well in terms of the game sometimes spilling over the edges into no longer a game but yeah

idk sigh sorry nevermind i guess

[anahit]

maybe selfish of me i was just enjoying reading the game before ya know

[anahit]

i dont see anyone else posting after I posted the quotes, weird, must be some hidden posts

you are such an unpleasant person. No one is posting because you make the game deeply unpleasant to play.

i think you have both been pretty far across the line here with regards to personal attacks / insults / out of game stuff

this post included

[anahit]

;_;

mm, sorry to bring up hell pt <3 you

[anahit]

I didn't want the game to go like this. I guess I'm not really cut out for modding

nono, i do not think it is on you at all and i think all moderators would like for their games to not go like this

it often makes me feel like, like maybe i am not cut out for playing, ya know, especially when it is like this where i just didn’t read the game for a couple days and 15 pages or whatever and i pick it up today and it’s still

this

and if i were playing here what is there to do other than to ask to be replaced which really isn’t fair to the other players or the moderator

and i guess here it does as well like maybe i should just /out from all of the games in queue to avoid possibility of

which is actually why i ended up trying my hand at moderating in the first place despite having much much more of a predilection for design and counting votes than for the other aspects of moderating

but i also love this game so much and i know that it doesn’t have to be this way and i want you to be able to continue moderating if you enjoy it - your flavour here is fun and exciting and everything else aside i am still excited to learn more about the design and such

and but so then even though i have taken many breaks partly for related reasons and partly due to life, thus far i have always come back and i hope maybe just maybe players could be kind to eachother like doing so does not interfere with anyone’s ability to sort anyone else i promise

[anahit]

;_;

mm, sorry to bring up hell pt <3 you

it's okay that game was just cursed (sorry again even if its like 2 years later <3)

(i am sorry again as well; i often think of that game and how to express myself better so maybe others can see and how to better ask other players what they are looking for from me when i do not understand to try to avoid causing so much frustration on both sides, and i have also adjusted my approach in general to try to be more apparently town throughout and nightkilled more often to avoid finding myself in such a situation in the first place, and i try even harder to think of possible intentions for all alignments and try not to give too much weight to the possible mafia intentions i can think of because doing so can cut off my ability to see the potential town ones while interacting with someone, even if overall i think it is more likely they are town)

((and of course i try to be clearer and understand others better in general but yeah, i am still me))

[anahit]

happy birthday ausuka!

[anahit]

i think last scum is maybe ali or xof or maybeeee hellbooks. could also be shea or tris. maybe even garlic.

it does seem pretty likely the last scum is within the subset {living players} yeah +)

[anahit]

it was a very good jailkeep! vp baltar’s only semi-viable line for survival post claim was probably to assume he was the intended nightkill and to work from there but even then unlikely to succeed because it’s a less likely explanation so his trying to obfuscate instead makes sense to me

[anahit]

Imagine if I just thread popped and started dropping vote counts

i had a dream once i was playing a mafia game, i died early, and the mod was like "hey uh you're dead now, i'm gonna be v/la for a bit and nobody else wants to, mind doing a few vote counts" and i was like "sure fam"

you can tell the dream is unrealistic because i was town

i

really

like counting votes in case anyone is ever in a situation where they need someone for this specific task

bonus points if i am also allowed to post youtube videos or quotes from whatever i am reading at the time

like anytime i have ever signed up for a game or asked to spectate if the moderator asked me ‘would you rather be an uninformed party whose sole responsibility is to post votecounts (1 votecount every x pages or x hours whichever comes first) you may also post non-game related content if you wish?’ i would almost always have said yes

like skygazer’s pests (no win condition etc) but for the main thread and i get to count votes!?! that would be super ideal

[anahit]

I'd like to queue for a game with you

thankyou, that is very kind of you to say

in case you did not know, you and i have played together a handful of times (though somehow, oddly never as the same alignment - i was ulyana in slaughter hour, drusilla in silent star i, team rocket queen in silent star iii, hari in mystery box gnine, and shiki in gacha mafia) and you are one of the players i generally look forward to playing with

and if you did then i doubly appreciate you saying this because it is often difficult for me to tell if anyone enjoys playing with me and it is sometimes hard for me not to default to assuming most players either do not or are indifferent

i /outed from all of the games i was signed up for after thinking about it more earlier but if i am feeling up to playing when i return from visiting home (1-9 july), i will certainly prioritize any game you are signed up for when choosing a game

same

and i don't think its on you at all

some people just think it's more important to play the game in a way that they believe gives an incremental advantage to their win% and ignore that it makes everyone else miserable

and i can't really understand that mindset, even if you disregard the fact that miserable people probably have a pretty negative impact on win%

it's just unfortunately the nature of the game that it is possible for one player to have an outsized impact on the thread, and certain people will abuse that bc they like feeling important or whatever

i would def prefer to be in a community where that behavior is not rewarded or encouraged

postcap games do help limit it a bit, i find

i think(?) that white flag game i replaced out of as giuseppina was the only game we have played together (unless of course you play on other accounts as well in which case i have never made the connection between them) but i would happily play with you as well

i guess to me it is like, the rules were knowingly and intentionally broken in this game,

so even beyond the fact that making other players miserable is unfun and anti-town there is that

and the out of game personal attack type of things makes the game completely unreadable/unplayable to me like it just stops feeling like a game altogether and i have very little interest in participating in something when i know someone is real world upset or going out of their way to intentionally upset others

but sometimes even conflict that is contained to game-related fields can be difficult to maneuver and i really do strongly believe that there are just better ways to approach other players that are more likely to result in beneficial outcomes and! less likely to ruin the game

i am generally okay with one player having an outsized impact on the thread, these days in low content games or games where i am afraid the scums may otherwise be in control of the game i sometimes take up that sort of position, though the purpose of doing so should generally always be to try to find ways to get all of the other slots more involved in the game and so forth, not to discourage them from playing altogether which is ?????????????? at best

i dunno, maybe that does fall under me 'feeling important or whatever', i don't really know, i certainly don't feel more competent than anyone else i just know i am town doing so (or that i would do so as town and being present as mafia is good, et cetera)

[anahit]

but, like i said earlier, i am far from perfect in all of these regards as well and all any of us can do is try to be better

and i think if more players prioritized kindness and the enjoyment of others the game would generally be better yea

[anahit]

i do think there is a significant difference in the kind of play im talking about which is taking over the thread for the purpose of forcing the game to revolve around the player doing so, compared to just being an active voice and a town leader, which is generally a positive thing

oh i think i misunderstood the 'because they like feeling important or whatever' part but now i think i get it

yeah i do not at all understand when players think of themselves as infallible and make the game like a 'with me or against me' situation like anyone who has played even just a handful of games knows they are wrong about things all of the time and pretending they are definitely right about this thing though and pushing someone as though they definitely are does not give the player being pushed room to show you that they are town and does little other than to try to force your preferred elimination at that time through instead of generating further information to try to better determine their alignment, which damages the game as a whole especially if you are wrong - and! even if you are not wrong, an approach that allows for that player to be town and to show others that they are town is still better because it is much harder for most mafias to do that than it is for most mafias to have a 'towny reaction' to being hardpushed in a downhill way, and! actual town reactions to this are often called scummy either for being overly defensive or for being dismissive of the push/disengaging and it's like, what else do you expect from town in that sort of situation? like what other options are there? all while it is also giving cover to all sorts of actual scummy behaviour

i guess i do not really know why players would do this as towm other than to be able to do so when they are a scums (which is, uh, not okay)

[anahit]

i guess maybe that is only one example of a way in which players take over the thread for the purpose of forcing the game to revolve around the player doing so but yeah

[anahit]

hm, suddenly vividly remembering datisi thinking it was weird that other players, myself included, thought there would be another pr in the 1 alien 6 vt miccro normal blitz from a year and a half ago because jk9er exists and is well known and such

[anahit]

I think jailkeeper + BP Vs rolecop is fine and balanced shrug

oh i certainly do not think that is unbalanced! i was just thinking about player expectation and how datisi's expectation differed from mine/others in that game and how that might apply to this (similar) situation

i do think

1 jailkeeper
1 rolecop
5 vt
1 goon
1 1-shot strongman

would be kinda ???

but like skygazer said impossible to tell exact how much knowing the alignments is weighing on my thinking with regards to this

[anahit]

you forgot about me!

oh right! merlyn is in your slot not enchant which makes thestatusquo's claim pretty impossible, yeah?

because he is clearing you so from merlyn's perspective the game would have to be

1 1-shot bp
1 jailkeeper
1 rolecop
4 vt
1 goon
1 1-shot strongman

for thestatusquo to be truthful? which makes the already ??? setup from before into a very unlikely one

[anahit]

merlyn's perspective

which would then also be from hellbooks perspective as well because merlyn confirmed by the 1v1 to her aussi

[anahit]

oo enchant doing the thing! exciting!!

[anahit]

regardless of outcome i think enchant played this dayphase very very very well