Mini Normal 2303: Mafia PT

[fireisredsir]

confirm Mafia Multitasking Backup Odd Neapolitan Even Alien!

at first i thought this was one of those ridiculous setups but thats actually more reasonable of a role than i thought it was

maybe it still is one of those setups

it probably is

[fireisredsir]

hi italiano!!

hi katy!! have you played mafia on other sites before or are you new to this?

[fireisredsir]

What’s up Fire! How are you?

excited to play mafia!!!!!!!!! hbu

[fireisredsir]

Because of Fire’s role am i not able to multitask?

pretty sure yeah, but me or katy can carry out the kill while you do your stuff the multitasking is mostly useful once im the only one left alive, so i can still do stuff

im awful at like fakeclaims and setup balance spec and stuff but my initial instinct is that im planning to trueclaim if ever necessary? i feel like that can work here?

[fireisredsir]

Have we played together before? I know your name but not sure if I’ve ever actually played with you.

ive read a few games that you've been in but we did play very briefly together in chromavalon

[fireisredsir]

im definitely planning to endgame here especially bc of my role

[fireisredsir]

Gotcha. Yeah mechanics is definitely a weakness of mine, sorry lol

maybe katy is a mechanics prodigy

[fireisredsir]

Hey, I'm new to forum mafia but I played on sites like epicmafia as well as in person. I am having a little trouble parsing y'alls roles, but thankfully I am a lowly mafia goon.

oh pog we're gonna win

[fireisredsir]

im definitely planning to endgame here especially bc of my role

Is that common for you? Endgaming? If so, we should/could set you up to get a guilty on me to fully clear you, etc.

yeah i usually can, we maybe could but i also don't want to be in a place where i should get nightkilled and don't

[fireisredsir]

katy since you're new here people are gonna be super forgiving as long as you can like vibe in the thread and post basic content. don't worry about roles or anything just pretend you're vanilla town

also get a pfp it makes you instantly cooler and more likeable and less likely to be eliminated by 12% scientifically proven

[fireisredsir]

im the backup, so basically Italiano can do one thing on odd nights, and a different thing on even nights

then if he dies, i inherit his role

[fireisredsir]

your posting style gives off adorable newbie vibes you're gonna get townread so hard

just don't play dumb, some people with experience try to do that when new here and it doesn't go well usually

[fireisredsir]

katy since you're new here people are gonna be super forgiving as long as you can like vibe in the thread and post basic content. don't worry about roles or anything just pretend you're vanilla town

also get a pfp it makes you instantly cooler and more likeable and less likely to be eliminated by 12% scientifically proven

Facts. Especially if an anime girl. The cuter the better.

literally

[fireisredsir]

im bad at setup spec and rolehunting honestly, i only really focus on dayplay

[fireisredsir]

for the submitting thing i think what you're getting is from the preview posts thing

basically when you go to submit, it will show you any posts that have been made since you started writing, which is really useful actually to make sure that you don't need to change anything you're saying before posting

[fireisredsir]

the game will open pretty soon probably so try to be around if you can in the opening few pages, things usually move pretty fast and it's more like chat mafia style for a bit with people throwing out random votes and jokes and banter

after a bit things slow down and people start making longer and more serious posts. generally not being too stiff goes a long way towards getting you townread though

[fireisredsir]

for the submitting thing i think what you're getting is from the preview posts thing

basically when you go to submit, it will show you any posts that have been made since you started writing, which is really useful actually to make sure that you don't need to change anything you're saying before posting

Ah wonderful, thanks for telling me about that.

To be honest, I'm just going to make all of these comments again in the main thread. Unless y'all think it would look a little *too* newbie?

nah thats cool, don't overdo it but a few things like that is totally fine

[fireisredsir]

our roles seem... kinda strong to me honestly? so i would expect there's a decent number of town roles as well

[fireisredsir]

im a little hesitant to do that only because we have to come up with a solid fakeclaim role for me to have

if i bus you super hard and also am trueclaiming that im your backup then people could catch on to that

[fireisredsir]

How often do or have scum claimed masons together in game and has it worked? Just thinking out loud.

i think it's been done before, has it worked? maybe a couple times. i wouldn't recommend it lol

[fireisredsir]

honestly it might be better for katy to bus you if anyone

[fireisredsir]

oh right he's in here

hmm maybe me being your town backup would be too swingy? starting to doubt if i really should claim that

[fireisredsir]

let's goooooooooo

[fireisredsir]

btw italiano feel free to keep buddying if you want to, i am intentionally playing it reserved in a way that hopefully won't look like theatre

i don't really have any reason to banter with you so i don't think i would as town, even though that's my natural inclination to try to do with scum partners

[fireisredsir]

yea no need to feel like you have to comment on everything, let things grow on their own

[fireisredsir]

cook was hinting at having a role btw, but it could also be an attempt to bait the nk

[fireisredsir]

112 and 149

implying that scum will be rolehunting her

[fireisredsir]

something i would recommend is trying to be proactive, pointing out some individual posts that stand out to you, commenting on what's going on

posting more will help people townread you

if you need ideas for what to talk about or want to run anything by us feel free to ask in here!!

[fireisredsir]

thats okay!! people here tend to better respond to multiple smaller posts than one big one i think, but you could also just dump a wall and probably people would be like "whoa ok he's town"

if you wanna post it in here first for feedback you're welcome to, or just go for it, whatever you wanna do

only thing is make sure that you don't copy paste from within here to outside here, especially if you use [ post ] tags bc it will break the links

[fireisredsir]

that looks great, gj, no real issues i think

but yeah notice how if you click the links in here they now try to link to posts in this thread? so if you copy paste it out into main it will be dead links

so make sure you paste from your notes instead of from here, and double check that the links work properly before posting

[fireisredsir]

i think the section on iamveryhappy is especially good, i believe that you believe that

the HPE section could maybe be worked on a little just in the phrasing since it feels a little weird that you start out by saying you disagree but then you understand where it was coming from

btw HPE pronoun is "it"

[fireisredsir]

I am going to add the comment "Does anyone have any questions for me? It might be easier for me to comprehend things if people give me comments or links to look at". Does that sound ok?

yeah thats great, maybe phrase it as "does anyone have anything they want to discuss?" or something instead, since that looks more like you're proactively hunting for scum rather than like hoping people read you as town, yk?

[fireisredsir]

people tend to scumread if people are nervous or self-conscious, and i think asking for questions for you comes off like you're in an interview or something, it feels a little too self-focused even if that isn't what you mean

[fireisredsir]

that's v fair, same here

i think as long as you aim to channel that towards self-consciousness in directions like: whether your reads are good + knowing how to engage with the thread/talk to people + feeling like your thoughts are worth sharing

rather than it being about how people are reading you

then that can definitely work

people do tend to townread confidence and conviction though (for some reason. i don't think they're particularly towny things)

[fireisredsir]

i think we can keep seeing how things develop

this may be a role heavy game so we probably will have forced kills at some point. that means that if we want to remove someone who will be a threat to us, now's the time to do it. im not sure if there's really anyone im scared of here, but there's probably some who will end up being unlimmable due to being obvtown, so that's probably where id want to focus kills

[fireisredsir]

i don't think you have to die today, but we'll see what seems best for us long term

i agree that katy can gradually start to suspect you a bit, although it maybe runs counter to the suspicion on iamveryhappy, so maybe not yet

[fireisredsir]

yeah im cool with that

good to avoid having too narrow of a focus though, you can keep tunneling but still good to make sure you continue engaging with the rest of the game and looking like you're trying to solve things

[fireisredsir]

asri is a decent choice yea

i think they're currently an ally which i usually would like to keep around for a bit, but they are pretty townread and unlikely to be limmed at the moment

[fireisredsir]

i can't be a universal townread if im going to believably make it to endgame so im going to burn a little cred strategically

it's just important for it to be in the right places

aligning with black + asri and counter to ausuka is effective bc ausuka will continue to suspect me which is ideal here, and im probably taking black with me as long as we can, if possible. that's probably where id want to neapolitan, to see if she's someone to bring to endgame

i probably need at least one more person suspicious of me. 2-3 would be perfect

katy you're welcome to if you see anything you'd naturally push, but no need to force it if you don't

[fireisredsir]

i like keeping around the type of players that i can talk to and that are reasonable and where we can understand each other

if i can turn ausuka around on d3 or so then that could work as a bonus but im not currently expecting or banking on that

[fireisredsir]

a possible point of suspicion someone could use (i thought ausuka would call it out but if y'all want to first it'll get you townpoints for being insightful), katy feel free if you want to

is to say it feels a little scummy the way that i defended cook and called out ausuka in 684 right after black votes ausuka. you could argue that the timing seems convenient and it feels like im positioning myself on one side of the argument, especially after agreeing with black's suspicion of ausuka earlier. it's suspicious because i didn't directly push on ausuka until it had other people's support and that feels opportunistic

i think it would help you look town + distance us pretty well + give me some more room to work with in the game if i have more people scumreading me

[fireisredsir]

don't need to full on scumread me over it but you could just be like "hmm this thing i noticed makes me wary"

[fireisredsir]

i think you should probably be a little more proactive if you can, look like you're trying to solve more of the game than just iamveryhappy

it's good to come across as curious and not having a single focus

[fireisredsir]

another fun thing to do that i do a lot is let yourself get pocketed by people

so if someone townreads you (like black in this case) you can take that connection and be endeared to them as a result, townread them back, basically go in with the mindset of "well this person sees me as town, and they're right. so that makes me like them and also see them as town"

the great thing is that if other people notice this happening it actually will make them more suspicious of the person, and automatically see you as town too

[fireisredsir]

asri is worldbuilding around black being scum

and in that world, we're all town

so we want to keep that world alive as long as possible

[fireisredsir]

i was just considering pivoting to you now that the pressure has died down lol

might do it in a bit, thread was moving too fast for me to really do anything for now

think i positioned well in the asri vs black thing tho p happy how that went

[fireisredsir]

ok this is great

italiano you have trajectory to continue on the side of asri since you liked their point about cook and black earlier

id say you should continue down that path

[fireisredsir]

reminder for myself for after italiano flips that part of the reason i voted him was to see if HPE would really follow through on being willing to vote there

and it did not

[fireisredsir]

those latest posts are good btw katy

i think just being present in thread and reacting as things are happening goes a long way

[fireisredsir]

yeah i have no idea lol

it's generally good for us i think but it isn't exactly the most enjoyable

[fireisredsir]

all good dw bout it

[fireisredsir]

good posting, well done

[fireisredsir]

hmm

i think you should avoid pushing back on her too hard in general

honestly you'd probably find her towny based on the character that you're playing, and that's totally fine

if i were in your position i would probably just find her inquisitiveness and pressure on people to be towny

but i also wouldn't really recommend talking about that directly in your response to her, since it can always look a little weird when someone is being pressured and then responds by townreading the other person. it looks like an attempt to deflect

the real trajectory i think is to respond to her questions just normally, without giving a read. and then later, independently you can act like you reflected on things and decided that you think her pressure was towny. but it's best if you let it marinate a bit and take some time to think about it

[fireisredsir]

this kind of stuff on p42-44 is so much fun

i love playing scum

this is why i want black in endgame

she's good but there's so much more to work with that way

[fireisredsir]

yeah im def cool with keeping ausuka around for now, i doubt people would go for a lim on her today anyway

if you do want to angle towards her i would say maybe go for allowing black to convince you she's scum, although it's good to have some original reasoning of your own. so you could keep an eye out for an opportunity to let the read develop and gradually transition towards a scumread over a few days

i think today's lim is probably in (hu tao, t3, HPE, cook)

[fireisredsir]

katy you're two people's top townread

gj gj

[fireisredsir]

morning! glad you're rested. we're in a pretty good position rn, i would say probably the main thing you want to avoid right now is coming in and just sheeping whatever the thread consensus is

could be good to have some slightly spicy or outside the box takes here, so you feel independent and like you're proactively pushing your own reads and thoughts

i probably will push on you a bit once you're back in but the lim will probably still land on one of the low content slots

[fireisredsir]

yeah nice, good instincts

town in your position i think would be motivated by the townreads to start to feel a little more confident, whereas you're right that scum often tend to coast

[fireisredsir]

yeah go for it if you want to, katy didn't

[fireisredsir]

good re-entry imo

im gonna lurk it out a bit, ive had too much thread presence lately, fine being on the back foot for a while

[fireisredsir]

agreed

also the being bulletproof makes a lot of sense with the overly obvious baiting a nk attempts

[fireisredsir]

it is super okay for us to lim cook today and lim italiano tomorrow btw so good job on this italiano

probably would be better if it doesn't get you limmed today but we'll see what happens ig

[fireisredsir]

you can also claim to delay things if the wagon gets bigger

and say that having a pr yourself is part of why you didn't believe cook's claim, but people saying that rolecop wasn't actually that strong made you doubt yourself

its a believable progression

[fireisredsir]

the downside is you said you don't have to be alive for town to win, which isn't that compatible with a strong pr

[fireisredsir]

you could say tho that it was intentional to avoid having people think you're a pr, as long as you mention it before people call you out on it

[fireisredsir]

this is going so well these pages are STUFFED with town having bad reactions to you being wagoned

there is gonna be so much to work with after you flip im excited for this lategame

[fireisredsir]

4 votes on you rn as of my unvote

[fireisredsir]

okay let's see how that goes lmao

[fireisredsir]

i prob would have waited until you were at like e-2 or e-1 but oh well, should have been more clear maybe

[fireisredsir]

i think vc is 4 on italiano, 3 on ausuka, 2 on cook, as of post 1598

i have to go for a bit again, will be on more in a few hours

[fireisredsir]

potentially yeah

i think no matter how this day goes we're in a good place for the rest of the game but the ideal is that ausuka or cook gets limmed here

i think you also look like you're trying to solve things and it wouldn't be weird for you to join on one of those two wagons

[fireisredsir]

4 italiano
4 hu tao
5 ausuka

as of my vote on hu tao post 1741

[fireisredsir]

so fun!

[fireisredsir]

i think y'all could push for cook as the last minute wagon instead if you want to, there's some possible momentum there depending on who shows up in thread

it is true that cook lim is the best one for us

[fireisredsir]

italiano if i were you id probably say something like "if we're not doing ausuka i really would rather do cook. i want to resolve these claims and not run someone else up"

if you're gonna be around before deadline enough to move your vote back to ausuka later, you could vote cook, otherwise just stay on ausuka imo

[fireisredsir]

great job lol

[fireisredsir]

nope if anything people tend to believe that scum like to spread themselves out and wouldn't all pile on the same wagon, like italiano said earlier

its slightly different since scum really do want to elim cook here, but i think it's fine

i have to go for a bit but yeah, lim cook if you can, but go back to ausuka if you have to. if things are getting tight near the deadline i can hammer cook to ensure day ends, if the wagon gets that far

with my vote sitting on hu tao i think italiano is less likely to happen, getting 7 there was barely viable anyway, which is why i was willing to let it get so close

[fireisredsir]

i have like 2 mins but just reminder that lim priority is cook > ausuka > hu tao

if cook lives we have to hope she doesn't check italiano bc he didn't trueclaim (or me lmao bc my role is 100% not a town role)

and if ausuka + cook live then cook may check ausuka and its harder to lim ausuka if her role is confirmed bc its a weird role for scum to have

[fireisredsir]

Wondering if there's a good way for me to push on Asri here.

your current posting is good, the reference to the old post really looks like you're digging into things

we may kill asri but if you start a push on them eod it looks like you aren't scum who knows that the kill was happening

[fireisredsir]

ok bye again glgl

[fireisredsir]

ehhh

generally no lim is bad for town bc it basically gifts us a free nk, and removes one elim that town will be able to do over the course of the game (rn they can miselim 3 times without losing, if we no lim its only 2)

here nothing get resolved and so town doesn't get much info but also we're likely to lim a pr so there's some tradeoff

id say yeeting ausuka is maybe better than a no lim just bc thats a pr gone, but it's debatable i think, idk. no lim probably won't happen anyway

[fireisredsir]

that was wild

would've been cool if it landed on ausuka at the end there but we'll take it

really good d1 y'all, we created such a good gamestate for people to build false conclusions off of. you both played great

[fireisredsir]

same, kinda clutch from him ngl

[fireisredsir]

I suspect D2 will be my fall from town grace. The nice thing is that a lot of pretty confident people (Black, Asri in particular) are going to go into d2 with very different ideas? The longer it's chaotic the easier it'll be for us right?

generally yeah

i think you played pretty well around the deadline tho you should be alright for a while

[fireisredsir]

now to think about actions

ill be around later today to talk about thoughts on that

[fireisredsir]

i had an eye on flower as a possible watcher but im not exactly great at finding those

i can take a look as well

[fireisredsir]

oh also cook could easily be lying about being bulletproof

its a very odd thing to claim your bulletproofness on d1 as a town rolecop, if you are

like to the point of throwing almost

[fireisredsir]

especially bc we have no strongman

[fireisredsir]

if we aren't confident on hitting a PR we can also aim for someone who won't be limmed, since that's about as effective

best choice for that is probably asri. the downside is that they spam a lot and create chaos which is good for us

[fireisredsir]

appreciate your thoughts tho

gn gn

[fireisredsir]

now to think about actions

ill be around later today to talk about thoughts on that

My thought is we kill Asri and Neapolitan Black.

I wonder what SS and Flower are thinking. Flower locktowned me for my claim, SS scumread me for it lol.

i do still think neapolitan on black, yeah

i think you probably claim blocked here tbh?

[fireisredsir]

mmm i don't really want to kill black bc dayplay wise ive been planning on having her around later in the game

[fireisredsir]

i think you probably claim blocked here tbh?

You think? Thoughts on how that could potentially go during the day.

i think that it's believable scum has a roleblocker (you're prob gonna alien cook tomorrow, which extra proves it), and that they would block you since your result is a potential clear

i think it is fairly possible that you get limmed today or tomorrow, and so it also probably isn't worth faking a clear when i don't think it will get you that much cred anyway and it will hurt our options for who is pushable

[fireisredsir]

what do you think on cook being bulletproof

i sort of think that she isn't? its just such a weird thing to claim it. if you're really bulletproof then there's like very little reason to claim it

[fireisredsir]

nobody can generate clears rn that we know of so we're chillin

there's probably a watcher out there which is potentially dangerous, normally id probably have you say you targeted someone else but it might be too risky. do you think it's believable that you'd neapolitan black here as town?

idr what your read was on her, you could argue that you weren't 100% sure on black and wanted to check bc she would be valuable to have as a clear (but then got blocked)

[fireisredsir]

im down to shoot asri unless you want to take the gamble on cook not being bulletproof. we are extremely fucked if she ever targets me bc it probably takes both of us down, so it's just praying that she never checks me or gets limmed

[fireisredsir]

yeah we'll see how things develop, you should still push for yourself to live, do whatever you can. towns are fickle and weird and often elim people they shouldn't. but i will be on you early for sure

[fireisredsir]

i won't be around right at daystart, have to go now, be there in a couple hours

[fireisredsir]

this actually works out extremely well holy

[fireisredsir]

claiming result on black was totally fine yeah, gj

[fireisredsir]

i don't want to tmi you as scum so im not gonna push thaaat hard

originally i was planning to set up for me claiming like n3 neapolitan or something, and that was why i disbelieved you so much, but if we just kill all the PRs then i can just be vt

[fireisredsir]

most likely we lim cook, shoot black? depends if there's still a watcher out there ig

but we probably lim you the next day regardless, although if a vig misses then we're in elo. they most likely shoot you tho

[fireisredsir]

ungated tracker plus watcher plus backup watcher plus rolecop would be kinda nuts

our roles are nuts too but idk

[fireisredsir]

amazing world is if black targeted me, which she might have lol

[fireisredsir]

i am taking a big risk here by dropping that post about flower now

if it convinces enough people not to lim cook, then that hurts us a bit

but i get more cred for dropping it now compared to tomorrow after cook flips, bc i am actively pushing against the flow of limming cook

so the ideal is that it is just barely not convincing enough for us to switch to limming you instead of cook

[fireisredsir]

this is why d1 is so important tho

we controlled the game and set up narratives and it's set us up really well for the rest of the game

we def got a bit lucky with how town PRs played but still

[fireisredsir]

you could yeah, idk, def good not to ignore me. im not really directly arguing against you, moreso flower, but you could attack me kinda defending flower

remember that to you cook is basically confscum and you're very annoyed that other people can't see that. you're annoyed that she changed her claim from bulletproof to ascetic in a super convenient timing. flower's worldview makes complete sense to you because you know it's right

you can also argue back at me and say that in the final post i quoted, flower came to the realization that if you were scum you were probably fakeclaiming, and that's the difference. prior to that they had thought you would be true claiming which is also a reasonable assumption. their logic checks out to you

i think you can respond to SS somewhat indignantly and be like "im annoyed about it too, but if i was scum i would know how bad this looks and just claim that i was blocked. black was one of the most significant slots to resolve, and one of the most useful to potentially clear"

[fireisredsir]

you could also respond to SS' latest post and say something like "why does town cook out the tracker? and if you think im scum and cook is town, you really believe that there would be a tracker, a watcher, a backup watcher a vig, and a rolecop?"

[fireisredsir]

just throwing out ideas feel free to use or not use whatever you find useful

[fireisredsir]

yee

you did pretty well on your own with talking mechs yesterday so i trust you to do that here

we may need more numbers on cook so at least leave that open as a possibility, i think flower is fairly convincing so you could lean in that direction. yesterday you also wanted cook a lot more than italiano so you have the trajectory for it

[fireisredsir]

if italiano dies today, we alien on black and then shoot cook, and then we can shoot cook the next night

we probably assume there is no real watcher, and then hunt for the vig

that's actually not the end of the world at all bc it ties up more of our nightkills before it gets to the point that it's weird that im not dying as a clear, since killing PRs is priority

[fireisredsir]

im actually sad that ausuka died and black is gonna die

i wanted a fun endgame

at least d1 was fun

[fireisredsir]

gut read but i think invis is the vig

[fireisredsir]

i think we win this in 5p tho w me and katy

[fireisredsir]

no, can be any modifier

id be surprised if it's a straight up vig tho

[fireisredsir]

koba was a reviewer of this and thinks vigs are negative utility for town, which they kinda have a point about, in this case they were, and in most games ive played with vigs they have been

[fireisredsir]

basically i think invis is the only vig who shoots ausuka there

t3 is the other possibility but he seems kinda checked out idk if he'd even use a shot n1

[fireisredsir]

if we lim cook... shoot black and block invis? bc vig is 100% shooting for italiano there

i think the only question is if we think there really is a watcher, in which case italiano should probably be the one to shoot black and just don't block anyone, since watcher will be on black for sure

could there be a protective?

[fireisredsir]

oh right thats only if vig has another shot which it might not

[fireisredsir]

tracker
backup watcher
(unknown modifier) vig
ascetic rolecop

are the known roles so far

[fireisredsir]

nah we kill black, it's def not worth it

actually imagine if black is 1-shot tracker. that would be a pretty nutty play from cook

[fireisredsir]

it's probably not the best play considering people are trying to solve the setup rn and basing lims off it lol but still

[fireisredsir]

oh i guess thats a good point

hm

[fireisredsir]

im p sure you can't both alien and kill bc then they're protected

[fireisredsir]

ill think about it

i think playing it straight up is probably better but idk

im still doubtful there's a watcher

[fireisredsir]

noting that ive read all that and am pondering it

ill think on what the best path forward is

[fireisredsir]

i think we probably do lim cook today, i don't think the votes for italiano are going to materialize

[fireisredsir]

i think it's possible for t3 to be the vig btw, he said he wanted to hammer ausuka previous day

[fireisredsir]

@Black: did you look at 2037? Did I miss a response from you?

I read it, I'm just really not sure what to believe atm. The only person I feel like I can trust is fire

[fireisredsir]

cook flip secured let's go

[fireisredsir]

yeah maybe lol, although he might reassess on cook flip

i think we still use a night action on black (kill or alien) bc if we don't then it's possible she tracks our killer

probably kill

and then we can aim in the unclaimed to try to alien the vig/watcher? or we could just skip the alien and send italiano to kill black since his slot is doomed anyway, just in case there is a watcher. idk

[fireisredsir]

black can't be watcher bc then she wouldn't know that i no-visited

she's tracker

it's technically possible that cook faked a result and she's actually like a 1-shot tracker or something, but i don't think it's worth worrying about rn

[fireisredsir]

lmao

we don't know for sure there's a watcher. the backup watcher role could be a red herring

[fireisredsir]

so basically there's two unknowns that matter

a) is there a watcher? if yes, they will be on black
b) does vig have a shot tonight? if yes, they will shoot italiano

our options:

1) shoot black with katy, alien guess in the unclaimed

basically this is only good if there's a vig but no watcher, and we hit correctly on the vig. worst case is really bad: if there's a watcher they see katy shoot and italiano dies anyway, either during the night to the vig or the next day

2) shoot in the unclaimed with katy, alien in the unclaimed with italiano

slightly better. watcher is negated (we don't touch black). better chance that italiano lives. but there's still the potential worst case of black targeting katy, which she might actually do, since she was suspecting katy at the end of day there. technically i could do the kill here instead of katy, less chance she double tracks me, but she might

3) shoot in the unclaimed with italiano, don't alien

this is not awful actually? watcher still negated. we could hit either the watcher or the vig. vig also could still hit italiano but the worst case isn't that bad. worst case is just we hit a VT and italiano dies. there's even a chance that black tracks katy and pseudo clears him

4) shoot black with italiano

also a pretty safe option. italiano either gets vigged or probably limmed the next day especially if there's a watcher, but me and katy have a clean slate to work with, and watcher is potentially forced to out themselves to claim the guilty. and a PR is guaranteed dead

[fireisredsir]

i think since we're in a good place generally and we don't want to throw away our lead, i lean towards one of 3 or 4 which has the lowest possible risk

3 is more appealing than i originally thought, due to the decent chance that black tracks katy. i think we could consider this

[fireisredsir]

3 also makes it so there's no watcher guilty if that exists (and if vig doesn't shoot/we kill it), and there's potential extra confusion with "why is black still alive"

[fireisredsir]

part of why i don't think there's a watcher is that nobody responded to ausuka's backup watcher claim in a way that makes me think they are one?

possibly flower

[fireisredsir]

i think if there's a watcher they're 100% on black

odds of there being a watcher... eh, 50%? id say odds go up if black has a modifier (limited shot, or lazy would be likely)

[fireisredsir]

Even if I'm vigged, I really like our chances and I'm happy to have run scum with you both. I believe it was a great team effort and I would run scum with you both anytime. Appreciate the mech help Fire and happy to have set you guys up for the endgame knowing I wasn't gonna make it there. I know it's far from over, but I feel my time here has ended. I had lots of fun.

you've been great as well yeah!! i love when scum teams can coordinate and shape the game together, thanks for listening to all my silly plans lol

[fireisredsir]

id probably aim for invis over t3? but idk

i can look again but im not great at rolehunting

[fireisredsir]

im okay w that

[fireisredsir]

i think we can always be open for it, let town lead it

we shouldn't try to do like a quickhammer thing tho bc if it's odd night vig or something like that then game isn't over

im gonna be pushing italiano but we can see what town pushes. i think it's very unlikely we can get another lim off

[fireisredsir]

black replacement :<

klick is pretty good im kinda nervous about that

wondering if we should just shoot the slot...

[fireisredsir]

she thinks im probably town but is wary

she also suspects you

i am not sure how klick will read me here but replacements always are unpredictable and can see things from an outside perspective

[fireisredsir]

klick has played w me as both scum and town and id probably be more worried about him catching onto things than anyone else left in the game

if he had been here from the beginning i would have been able to build up trust and work around him but replacing in is always kinda hard to know what will happen

[fireisredsir]

yeah i think it's probably the cleaner path

and if there is a watcher then maybe we out them

[fireisredsir]

sorry klick!!

[fireisredsir]

apparently????

[fireisredsir]

katy you're def claiming VT once someone asks

i am as well i think

[fireisredsir]

thats really funny tho we could have just won the game if flower targeted one of us

[fireisredsir]

that's a alright post yeah. flower confirmed SS town (if they're town) but thats fine

if you're feeling bold you could try to push on a town (besides SS, maybe flower) in the hopes of looking like you're trying to distance w a partner? up to you

you also have to like remember that if you're town, the game is over here if any person votes you. so be like, maybe a little more desperate/pleading/trying to explain that you're town and you're not sure why the setup is the way it is but it must be just that they tried to put in a bunch of scummy looking town prs that aren't that powerful

i don't expect it to work but you could try. blame the people who set this up as either you or cook. then say it doesn't make sense how there's this dichotomy set up between you two when there's others PRs like the watcher and like flower

[fireisredsir]

then maybe remember that there's probably a watcher out there and say that they must have seen who killed black and that it wasn't you

[fireisredsir]

the town is just loaded with low power investigatives to get them to turn on each other. yours isn't even very useful bc there's so many prs

[fireisredsir]

happy trusts you! for some reason

i think it wouldn't hurt to try to sow some doubt

[fireisredsir]

you're not actually caught at all, the only case is that there's too many investigatives but that's pretty weak tbh

[fireisredsir]

[fireisredsir]

i don't think that helps us

[fireisredsir]

SS is cleared by flower so he never flips before flower

[fireisredsir]

you could probably self hammer tho if you want. you're at 3 votes

[fireisredsir]

nice hammer gjgj

[fireisredsir]

happy is probably our lim we can't shoot him

invis is probably vig

[fireisredsir]

the vig shooting t3 actually hurt us a lot bc we needed him as a lim

[fireisredsir]

i can push happy yeah

the problem is i think invis is the vig

[fireisredsir]

i was considering a play where we have katy claim vig and 1v1 but i haven't checked out your progressions to see if it's believable you made the shots that happened

[fireisredsir]

right, the reason it would work mechanically is that tonight we have a neapolitan shot, and next night we have an alien shot

so if they go for the "lim nobody, let night actions resolve it", we alien them and shoot elsewhere, taking it to 2v2 and we probably just win? unless they still have another shot, but even then we just shoot them and they shoot back and then we win. so yea its a locked win i think?

and they won't expect scum to have another roleblocker

[fireisredsir]

ill check to see if it's plausible at least that you could have made those shots

but there is the concern that if vig is out of shots (fairly likely) then it probably does go to lim which idk if you win that 1v1

[fireisredsir]

im not sure about it, i never go for mechanical shit like this im always afraid ill mess it up lmao

but at least wanted to propose the idea

[fireisredsir]

im not sure if they would shoot tonight bc if they miss the game is over

[fireisredsir]

i don't think we can ever be in autoloss here

[fireisredsir]

lmao it would

hm let's think about that

[fireisredsir]

also i often don't vote for fast nights just when i want a break from the game so its nbd imo

[fireisredsir]

i think it can be even simpler, you can just say you were trying to make it look like you aren't the watcher

you could have gotten a guilty on italiano by checking black n2 and didn't need to claim bc we were already going to lim him

im not sure who n1 target could be

[fireisredsir]

ill think about if i like this plan

[fireisredsir]

god i hate mech games

[fireisredsir]

flower may visit SS bc there's no reason not to i think

i was considering if it's ever worth hitting invis instead of flower bc flower death confirms SS town but eh

i feel like we probably could have won this easier through a fakeclaim but im so bad at being willing to do those

[fireisredsir]

im not sure there's ever a chance that SS turns on flower if we shoot invis, so it really would probably just make things harder idk

[fireisredsir]

eh i think you can't claim watcher bc your reaction to ausuka's claim doesn't read like how the watcher would respond

you'd probably automatically trust a backup watcher claim a little more

[fireisredsir]

flower said "Vig should try to shoot scum tonight if they can shoot n3 and n4"

which is kinda wild bc that could lose the game lol

i doubt they can, but let's say they shoot you, we shoot flower. that puts us at me, happy, invis, SS, with SS conftown. i just have to lim happy, then block invisible and shoot SS and it's a win?

so no matter what we have to lim happy

[fireisredsir]

my phone autocorrects invisibility to invisible smh

[fireisredsir]

Katy kills flower

doing this for now

i think the only thing a neopolitan check can get us is finding out slightly sooner for sure who the vig is, or checking if happy is somehow the watcher? but eh that doesn't really help us i think idk

i think it's better to keep me completely clean just in case, and then ill double act tomorrow

[fireisredsir]

holy fuck uhh yeah do it im here

[fireisredsir]

at 1pm

[fireisredsir]

I'll be ready

[fireisredsir]

@fireisredsir

ping

[fireisredsir]

if you vote. just in case, say something like "if I vote here we can confirm SS and fire as town, right?"

[fireisredsir]

so if I miss it its still salvageable

[fireisredsir]

post in here before you do with a time so i can be ready

I'll be checking

[fireisredsir]

and ill confirm first before we do it

[fireisredsir]

its not a big deal if we can't bc we probably win regardless

[fireisredsir]

technically it's safer not to since we don't know roles but eh

[fireisredsir]

it is better if we can bc invis vig claim will kinda clear him

[fireisredsir]

ok ok

[fireisredsir]

im here

[fireisredsir]

ok

[fireisredsir]

im ready spam refreshing

[fireisredsir]

gj gj

[fireisredsir]

my heart is beating so fast lol

[fireisredsir]

no redactions