Mini Normal 2305: Masonry

[the worst]

this is not a drill I'm a mason with MT and Elements omg

[the worst]

if we are both widely scumread there is merit in elements & I claiming masons. but if Mt is not widely scumread I think we can probably keep the third mason thing a secret for now. if I'm understanding this correctly.

I'll also be radiantly towny in like 13 seconds so look forward to that

[the worst]

I feel like we've always had wavelength alignment lol

alright let's see how the unfreeze plays out but that's up our sleeves if we need it.

any tips for getting me engaged in this game?

[the worst]

Cool. It's such a good player list, I'm pretty sure I'll be hyped for it in no time I'm already hyped just being townscum with y'all

[the worst]

sweet I'm excited. all the people we need to get firm reads on are very fun to play with.

[the worst]

if HEM really presses on this, my narrative is that el came up with the idea of mason distancing and clidd hadn't really considered doing it that way but went along. the intention here is to keep mt's existence quiet, while also ending this boring segue with HEM and getting on to the game lol

[the worst]

cool I think we're accepted as real masons

gut says HEM good but I'll revisit

[the worst]

Hi Worst

I beleive the mason claim. Although i dont get some of elements posts if elements and worst are two of the masons.

two of the masons??? excuse me are scum informed and is this a real life scumslip

[the worst]

straightup fine w flipping bob if he's gonna play a vague wifom-ey information game but i'm indifferent on his alignment i'll solve the game when i'm less tunnelled there

[the worst]

he's scumsiding really hard but he's doing it in a way which feels, like, so self-damning that i am actually struggling to scumread it...

[the worst]

wait we just need to kill bob

[the worst]

sorry i have to run so just pitched it to the chorus feel free to roast me

[the worst]

oh nice hammer El lmao

[the worst]

i definitely don't think i have a silver bullet scumread on bob or anything, more like just, don't let them survive til endgame because they will unless they're eliminated :p

kinda agree, bingle felt like he kind of came in, read the gamestate as well as possible and was gearing up for a solo scumgame, i don't really get the impression that we're dealing with a final deep scum.

[the worst]

From a mechanical pov I just can't work out what a mason finder adds to the set-up in isolation unless maybe there's more power roles who are unclaimed? We could probably ask for massclaim tmo and see how things shake out but bob & gerain feel like the least towny people itt to me

[the worst]

some of these notes are significantly more useful than others. i have a lot of work to do to distill them down. but just observations i made while evaluating d1 in case you find 'em interesting.




geraintm
bob3141 (Emperor flippyNips)
curiouskarmadog
humaneatingmonkey
Save The Dragons (Klick)

M | Bingle (furtiveglance)
M | camelCasedSnivy (Greeting)

T | OopsieDaisy
T | Elements
T | the worst (clidd)
T | Roden
T | Morning Tweet
T | Takutai




bob:

bob:
- 28 furtive greets bob's slot for no reason
there is nothing on this slot bc emperor lurked. i'll grant that emperor lurking with a negative utility role as town makes sense but i've already talked abt my observations here so i'm kinda bias checking...

#298 el "who"
#654 furtive willing to vote emperor "if [he has] to" but wants pressure on clidd
#739 emperor likes oopsie, karma, klick, gera, monkey. this is really funny.
#746 gera just limbait, wait gera what is your scumgame = tmi?
#759 mt kinda likes flippy
#976 roden votes nips while under threat of death

humaneatingmonkey:

hem:
- convo around 19 + 24 with furtive feels kinda forced for an rvs thing, quick to move vote from furtive to mt. this isn't damning just something i'd bully you for if i was around in rvs.
- furtive's reads in 148 have you hard town; el maybe town
- clidd's posts 159 find you quite organic
- eager & engaged so far

#223 oopsie "hem is towny but [their push] is gross"
#227 oopsie town on hem bc hem is motivating her to scumhunt
#240 (as example) - has spent a lot of time questioning daisy while voting her. window-shopping a mt scumread.
#255 slight town from mt
#267 switches vote from daisy to taku; presumably happy with her answers/read but not convinced on mt
#272 pushing tweet for being too defensive?
#291 roden "very town" on hem
#295 unvotes takutai for no reason. oh it's a crumb question mark
#298 el notes competent regardless of alignment, worth keeping around
#304 greeting town vibes from hem (clidd town vibes; town on oopsie until the gera vote then not townreading oopsie; roden kinda sus but not sure).
#328 furtive townreads
#397 hem "not sure how drastic [ckd]'s scum gameplay is" uh refer sig. convo with furtive feels sincere enough
#480 el reads hem vs. roden t/s
#659 "furtive is missing a soul in this game." good
#668 furtive gives pretty scummy response to hem's question
#678 hem comes around on furtive's clidd read; doesn't vote clidd, "someone needs to introduce us to new clidd". conversation with furtive dies.
#708 thru #721 lets furtive off really easy
#722 + #723 neither player is voting greeting. furtive is voting clidd "for pressure" and hem is voting roden after being unsatisfied with their 1v1. neither player finds this odd.
#736 oopsie notes that greeting is indeed very out of character vs. older towngames
#741 lim pool of {roden > clidd > greeting = elements = gerain}
#761 "furtive's different i can totally attest, i don't know what it is..."
#769 takutai asks why greeting is in hem's POE, and then clidd in a later post
#772 hem replies about clidd only, gives a lukewarm response about greeting second 2 posts later
#816 + #819 + #821 + #822 does a lot to publicly pivot onto clidd when the wagon is pure unless scum in [hem, klick]. he did a lot to convince people to vote this way, making generic comments about "the sheet speed of that wagon" feels disingenuous.
#828 mt picks up what i'm picking up here
#848 roden picks up same issue with hem/furtive interaction
#865 oopsie notes hem's progression on roden is fucking wild
#873 very high confidence on karma flipping town
there is a whole lot of roden v hem which just isn't helpful to me sorry
#1003 deflects attention elsewhere for a town!roden flip
#1017 is fantastic
#1074 is the crux is hem's case against roden and it's just flimsy. he's spent the last several pages defending himself not making a meaningful case against roden.
#1111 suggesting clidd seems glaringly negligent vs., e.g., greeting who he'd agreed is scummy & is much more under-the-radar. daisy points this out (+furtive) in #1126, hem laughs it off and turns the convo into oopsie's wagonability
#1164 divines another scumtell out of roden's self-vote. this is the second piece of information he has said indicating roden is scum (the other one was a vague meta misrepresentation thing). i don't care if the tell is real or if hem does or should know it's real. it hasn't come up before now and suddenly it's a point of dispute. this is burying it's not useful.
#1210 greeting unvotes furtive when furtive is actually a wagon candidate and hem deadass comments like a very short time after without batting an eyelid at it ?_?
#1220 agrees with el's [greeting, roden, takutai] scumteam suggsetion but still doesn't feel any compulsion to call out greeting aaaaaaaaaaaa
#1241 hammer post broadcasts believing the read more than it believes the read

curiouskarmadog:
#298 el notes ckd has disappeared
#327 preemptive vt claim we love 2 see it
#328 furtive "neutral" for the death note in 327 lol
#357 emperor "more town side"
#410 clidd scumreads
#432 oopsie notes ckd's passion is missing
#479 klick laet to the ckd party & asks for an explanation on the suss
#988 is a catchup post it does nothing for me yet but ckd is working on it
#996 furtive votes ckd
#1081 is half catchup/half lament it's whatever
#1103 i might be bias but the clapback at hem made me smile
- notes greeting's weird questions & note to check for distancing (mood).
#1153 ckd straightup forgets they calimed vt at e-3
#1160 first two concerns are roden's self-vote (policy, fairly middling) and dunking on furtive for not having reads
#1161 antagonising roden for asking for a summary
#1216 greeting vote against ckd could be distancing, i guess. if i'm right about hem, greeting's scumpool in #1214 has 0 scum in it.
#1266 probably not establishing greeting bus in the middle of chaos
#1308 furtive ends day calling ckd towny but still voting him lmao

editor note: i found ckd's first catchup pretty surface but loved the way they used the information they'd gathered during their subsequent posts. i generally found their insights were pretty oriented towards solving the game, and tended to have novel commentary (i.e. not just sheeping people from the thread). there's a lot in there which i think made more sense during the context of d1 and focused a lot on players who are now dead. so honestly, i stopped making comments about ckd when i decided they were just town. i can dig more up if i have to but i think everyone agrees.

savethedragons:

savethedragons:
- 158 clidd gives this slot a weak townread (i have no notes so far so klick has probably ignored contentious reads or now-flipped scum).
- 162 i like klick picking semantic fights about their daisy reads at clidd after clidd townreads him.
- eager & engaged so far

#298 el notices klick exists
#328 furtive "some towny stuff"
#500 greeting asks furtive for reads on [self, el, klick, roden]. #520 furtive asks "why those players?". #597 greeting vots furtive for asking that (???).
#620 mt's first thought read klick town
#639 has ckd lean-town, gerain/greeting/furtive/hem null
#647 furtive responds to greeting's questions. read on klick is pretty shonky but all his reads are shonky.
#661 oopsie townleans klick. null everyone else. scumlean furtive, shines spotlight on greeting.
#700 greeting asks furtive to overjustify his townread of klick. oopsie has just called for people to explain why they like greeting. if that's the scumteam this is insanely bold. #711 furtive "i'm not annoyed ... i don't see the point of greeting asking all these questions if he isn't actually scumreading the players i'm townreading" aaaa
#731 klick likes hem's progression on ckd-town, joins hem on roden
#777 reads, ckd town, furtive townlean, hem null, gerain/greeting/emperor nullscum.
#788 mt: klick is town even with boring scum pool
#874 calls roden's snap opinion change abt hem hard to believe
#877 calls for feedback on klick's own ckd towncase. if scum, klick is coming in from the shadows and trying to drive a roden miselim which is already happening in over ckd who we would know is town.
#885 calls for roden's (near elim'd) confidence on tweet town
#979 mt asks klick how el/curious are his top tier town
#1214 greeting establishes a scumpool including klick. this is the most incriminating point imo. hilariously, his scumpool is our living players but w/o 2 masons and hem. but he says furtive is fine, but never circles back to why he asked for that list of 4 people for reads. again this feels like such a weird conversation to just fucking phone in if he was double-distancing?



gera:

gera:
- 161 vote from clidd.
- this is a lurker so reading by gamestate, 161 has:

el

(4): ckd, gera,

greeting

, hem
gera (4):

mt

,

taku

,

oopsie

,

clidd

oopsie

(2): klick,

el

ckd (1):

roden

taku

(1):

furtive

nv (1): flippy

at this point, consider either:
- no scum are being wagoned (i.e. gera is town), or there is an all-town wagon on scum!gera who is lurking
- around 173 furtive jumps in and makes a couple of aimless meta comments without addressing major wagons

i feel like this is a fairly good time to move his vote onto town!gera but i don't really know if it's very revealing of gera's alignment

#221 "i am 100% scum" lmao
#234 no interest in eliminating oopsie
#265 furtive votes gerain
#276 "i like this" @ furtive's vote on themself i swear there's so much comedic cheekiness if gera is scum
#278 dislikes hem's vote on takutai
#298 el gives gera a d1 pass
#315 won't elim oopsie bc she is a "reverse not mafia"
#328 furtive lists as "vote target"
#357 emperor has gera "kinda townie"
#641 gera calls a [el, taku, roden, clidd] wagn on emperor "not pure"
#963 furtive calls for "clidd, greeting or geraint" wagons which is probably kinda anti-partnery given he has not set up a gerain call at all
#996 furtive votes ckd; gerain calls it out as odd but drops it when furtive says he doesn't have to agree w the mainstream
#1038 takutai vibing w gerain

[the worst]

i'll translate that into a coherent case if i need to. i also plan to do d2-4 in context and kinda reevaluate. i know i felt really good about scum!bob in d3 and that vibe definitely isn't dead.

[the worst]

i guess i'd argue with past-me that bob has scumsided once, the rest of their work isn't like massively deeply towny but it's just medium. hem scumsided all of day one. do the cool kids still say "powerwolf",,

[the worst]

el please talk to me i'm tryin my best here

i get we've got a tight POE pool, but the only players alive who are really capable of breaking it are HEM and CKD. gera is a really easy miselim, but i think they're a miselim. i think dragons is a miselim. bob has already accepted their fate.

the only player in the POE pool who has that burning urge to win is HEM, and HEM is

very

capable of steering this gamestate. one of us is dying tonight, and i think it's really important we remove the largest threat in the game with very high scum equity before our faction is reduced to just an IC.

i don't mean to sound snappy either sorry if this is kinda extra. you know i think you're rad and i really like the way you've played this game. i'm just a fresh set of eyes on a game which has become kinda stale and i need to make sure i've done a *lot* of due diligence before i'm gone.

[the worst]

i think HEM is playing along to make me feel bad for the epic wallcase. :p

dragons is like a very easy solve. i'd like to see what his solve is without HEM being alive because (1) all fresh perspective to this game has been scum or read hem as scum, (2) a heavy d1 scum-sider has reached d4. i'm open to taking bob out to remove more wifom & dealing with dragons in f3 (i think he dies easier than hem dies in f3).

[the worst]

regardless of alignment, i think he might've felt entitled to another phase or two here. i don't really think he was expecting the huge dunking-on.

i'm kind of hoping he's just channeling that frustration into a bit to try and make me feel goofy for catching him tbh but i could be wrong :p

[the worst]

wild I guess at least I'm not focused on hem anymore

[the worst]

hello. OK. my notes on everyone else are kinda boring because I'm not gonna lie, hem just had the most profoundly impossibly unlucky town game I've literally ever seen in my entire life. Like people talk about "scum with a town wincon" and shit all the time. This ain't it, monkey wasn't "scummy". He literally looked consistently aligned with flipped scum and unaligned with town. I don't regret casing/liming there for a second but daaaamn I feel sorry for the situation he ended up in.

will go reevaluate now. if I'm shot tonight, without reevaluating: please don't power-elim dragons. I'd actually ask him for his strongest reads now that his #1 read was scum who has now flipped town. If dragons is town, he's sort of forced to reevaluate and I think his reads are very valuable. If he's scum he's gonna need to start making some shit up quick.

honestly just kill dragons in most d5s though because he's probably just... more likely scum than anyone else... it's just hard to be on lock here

[the worst]

I'd probably press Bob pretty hard here. Not because of the claim thing. Neither he nor Emperor have like any interactions with scum in retrospect. I liked a lot of his takes catching up but a lot can be tmi. Some stuff has come up in my real world today and I doubt I'm going to expand on this much. There's not a lot to show, mostly absence of things (i.e. not really acknowledging Greeting, furtive or Bingle at all).

Ngl I think this is first place, with Dragons second. Dragons is also easily scum here (mostly by preds), but in short:
- no interactions with scum is more likely aligned than goofy fumbled interactions with scum.
- I do think Dragons evaluating & casing HEM through the mason claim situation is slightly towny. I was doing the same.
- Bingle talking scum!Bob into claiming makes as much sense as Bingle & HEM coordinating town!Bob claiming, so that point kinda stands.
- Bob hated this characterisation, but here goes: Bob has done lots of things which look like solving but hasn't justified any reads since replacing in except MT who scum apparently wanted to out & shoot. Vca and gamestate aren't reads.

So like I think I'm at Bob > Dragons but I think I'd push Dragons pretty hard d5 because that's the last fresh opinion were gonna get in this game. If he isn't satisfactory he's not a bad lim by any stretch.



Gera is probably around my strongest townread. Breaking character to case furtive when [furtive, greeting] were the wagons is kina wild if they're scum together. He hasn't done a lot, and there have been times when he's appeared concerned with looking towny. But the more I read his posts in context, the more I feel like they're kinda uninformed.

Ckd is like a fairly good townlean. I don't think he's done anything clearing. I just don't think he needed to go this hard if he's scum he's spent the entire game posting nerve-wracking shit which I don't think furtive or Greeting knew how to work around. This is my least favourite read sorry.



Tw/El
Gera
Ckd
Dragons
Bob

No idea which one of us dies. I kinda think it might be you. But needed to update this. Real life situations or not i promised to re-evaluate so here's where I'm at!

[the worst]

I think I trust a f3 of gera/ckd + whoever more than a f3 of gera/ckd + HEM because that would have been a nightmare to solve. Hem's flip does remove a tonne of cloud from my vision lol

[the worst]

welp. good luck. if i wake up tomorrow i'll try and do you proud.

[the worst]

it's been so long since i played mafia, i forgot how f5 this game is.